DDD's Placement Topic

[Commander_Beef]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236407​

Let us all remorse about the king's reign slowly dropping to the high tier, for he is officially on the bottom of the S tier list.
I was completely expecting him lowering at least one spot because of his lack of increased metagame for a while, combined with the potential of the high tier characters like Diddy Kong and Wario who have risen. And also the fact that he had the most bad matchups out of all the top and high tier characters from the tier list version 2.0 .

These questions do not have to be answered...
​

Is King Dedede really in a recession?

Why do you think King Dedede went down two spots?

How do you think King Dedede went down two spots?

At the current standings, do you think he will rise any higher by version 4.0?

Will Marth seriously surpass him?

Let us hear your thoughs, answers and what you think about King Dedede at this point.....commence discussion!​

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hi, I like you guys so I hope you don't mind throwing in my two cents:

Is King Dedede really in a recession?

Probably. He's a solid character with a good foundation and always will be, but the problems are that:

1. He invalidates a buttload of characters but isn't actually "tourney viable" himself (in that he probably isn't going to win a national without a secondary or two) and

2. After a year and a half of telling people "don't get grabbed" it might have started actually being that people... aren't getting grabbed. Of course, no one can avoid that grab range forever, but I have noticed less chaingrabbing in pro Dedede matches.

Why do you think King Dedede went down two spots?

The answer is not that Dedede got a lot worse, I don't think he did. I think it's more that he didn't get better, and Wario and Diddy did.

How do you think King Dedede went down two spots?

See above. Diddy and Wario started kicking *** on the tourney scene; neither of these characters are great for Dedede (I don't think, please feel free to correct me) and Dedede hasn't evolved a lot lately. That doesn't mean his game isn't improving, but he also didn't pull a Wario and start suddenly pseudo-countering MK.

At the current standings, do you think he will rise any higher by version 4.0?

Anything is possible and I love the King, so I hope so, but my gut says "no" unless you guys break him between now and then.

Will Marth seriously surpass him?

No, because Marth is much worse off than Dedede in the current metagame and will continue to go down. Dedede might end up top of high tier, though.

 

[CRASHiC]

Actually, Atomsk proved at Apex that you can go incredibly high with just DDD, and Co proved that at WHOBO. DDD can be single played, even at the highest levels.
Other than that, I agree with everything in the above post.

 

[Conti]

UGH, after reading all of that... your all right... DDD is so good... but he will never really get better.... =[

Still S Tier Worthy, Smart players can get around the bad matchups and do very well... {Atomsk is my hero with DDD... i dont play D3 but his D3 is sooo funny yet amazing {aka beast}... }

Thats my 2 Bits

 

[Gates]

Who cares?

No seriously, why does it matter? The only things that should really matter when choosing a character to main are how well that character fits your playstyle and the matchups they have. How high they are on the tier list shouldn't make a difference.

1. He invalidates a buttload of characters but isn't actually "tourney viable" himself (in that he probably isn't going to win a national without a secondary or two)

Well ****, if that's your definition of tourney viable then nobody but Snake and MK are. "Tourney viable" doesn't mean they have to be able to win an Apex or Genesis sized tourney, it just means that they can do well enough against a majority of the cast that they will allow the person playing them can do reasonably well (meaning top4 in small tourneys, top8 in regular size tourneys, top16 in big tourneys, and making it out of pools at Apex/Whobo/Genesis/whatever).

Also, how is Marth in a worse situation in the metagame? He has like 3 bad matchups (which really aren't that bad for him) and he's a soft counter to characters like Wario and Diddy (I think he does ok against Diddy). Marth is very good but he's not widely played, so he usually suffers the same problem as Falco.

 

[T3h Albino]

A good marth can't beat a good mk ;B
In all honesty marth just has matchups that he can't win on a high level of play
even though it is a fact he's not widely played i beleive there is a reason for that <_<

 

[Gates]

idk...RoyR seems to do pretty well against Dededes and he's beaten UltimateRazer's Snake before. His MK matchup isn't THAT bad, but I guess it's bad enough to be his worst matchup. Still, many high tiers some high tiers Dedede has a bad MK matchup and that doesn't stop him from doing well.

Also, I realized as I was writing this that the tier list has basically become a ranking of characters in relation to how they do against MK.

 

[CRASHiC]

Atomsk would disagree with you about the Metaknight matchup with DDD.

 

[T3h Albino]

it's way worse if you're marth like dedede's is bad but marth's is just.....=/

 

[Gates]

Atomsk would disagree with you about the Metaknight matchup with DDD.

lol I'm actually starting to think it's more even too, but not 50:50 like Atomsk. Prolly more like 45:55 or so.

 

[CRASHiC]

A good way to look at the MArth vs. Metaknight matchup.
At the middle of the stage, its slightly in Marth's advantage.
The farther you to get to the edges, the more it moves in Metaknight's favor.
Once off stage, the matchup is 80:20.
A marth player told me this, and I finally understood the matchup.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Alright I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, but I just wanted everyone's input for this subject, just because the new tier list came out and King Dedede got lower, that's all. Thanks again so far...

 

[Gates]

A good way to look at the MArth vs. Metaknight matchup.
At the middle of the stage, its slightly in Marth's advantage.
The farther you to get to the edges, the more it moves in Metaknight's favor.
Once off stage, the matchup is 80:20.
A marth player told me this, and I finally understood the matchup.

Oh, that makes sense.

 

[Conti]

Alright I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, but I just wanted everyone's input for this subject, just because the new tier list came out and King Dedede got lower, that's all. Thanks again so far...

Lol i thought about doing that, but i wanted to see if any1 would say more.... =]

 

[Jupz]

Imo the Dedede/MK matchup is around 45:55 as well. Although depends on the stage (-.- Norfair, Brinstar -.-).

Anyway lolz at the top tier being ordered in their matchup with MK.

Anyway... I doubt Dedede will ever drop below 7th or so, although it dosent matter as I will still be using him The only people I can see overtaking him are Marth and Ice Climbers

 

[Vayseth]

DDD is the best character in the game. I don't know what the SBR is doing, but the obviously ****ed up somewhere. Since day one the boards knew DDD was the best character in the game and I guarantee you it'll stay that way.

Bad match ups? We have some "uncomfortable" ones but really, we have CRIPPLING match ups in our favor. NO OTHER CHARACTER HAS THOSE.

BTW, Marth is REALLY good. If he wasn't so easy to edge guard, I'd say he'd be right up there with Metaknight.

 

[Commander_Beef]

DDD is the best character in the game. I don't know what the SBR is doing, but the obviously ****ed up somewhere. Since day one the boards knew DDD was the best character in the game and I guarantee you it'll stay that way.

Bad match ups? We have some "uncomfortable" ones but really, we have CRIPPLING match ups in our favor. NO OTHER CHARACTER HAS THOSE.

BTW, Marth is REALLY good. If he wasn't so easy to edge guard, I'd say he'd be right up there with Metaknight.

Gosh enough of that "best character in tha game" thing. It served as a good joke for a while but now it's straight up dead dude, not true either. Sorry but I needed to let that out...

 

[T3h Albino]

wtf are you talking about d3 is the best character in the game <_< srsly

 

[Tero.]

There was a huge discussion about DDD beeing top of A Tier or bottom of S Tier.
I'm glad the final decision was placing him in S Tier.

Personally I think that he's not better than Wario/Diddy but better or tied with Falco.
Btw I don't think DDD/MK MU is that bad, probably 55:45 in favor of MK.

Anyway DDD is the best character in this game, we all know it
(Beef and Albino shut up xD)

 

[Jupz]

<3 Tero

I still don't understand why people care so much about the tier list. Dedede hasn't changed, we just view him in a different way. Sure, its disheartening that hes gone down but nothings really changed

 

[WingedKnight]

Tier list placement matters not to my usage of the King, but I must say I'm not too disappointed with his placement. As people have stated, he didn't get worse, other people just evolved more. Dedede just has more counters then most Top T people, but he can still work around them. We got passed a bit, nothing wrong with that, we're still as awesome as we were! XD No, I don't think Marth could pass Dedede. Nor G&W or the other A tier people. I think Dedede is and will stay right about where he belongs: the fringes of Top Tier. A solid, amazing character choice if you master him, but not an uber like some other players.

King DDD forever! Regardless of figures/matchups/and TR4Q (lol), he will always be one of the best, and always my fave!

 

[l1striker1l]

Saw this on the mk and wario boards.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I saw that on the Zelda boards...weird people.
Pretty creative image though.

Tero...I agree with King Dedede not being a better character than Wario, but he is better than Diddy Kong. Someone challenge me to debating?

 

[Jupz]

I reckon hes better then Wario but worse then Diddy... but thats just me.

 

[Gates]

Gosh enough of that "best character in tha game" thing. It served as a good joke for a while but now it's straight up dead dude, not true either. Sorry but I needed to let that out...

When was anyone ever joking about that?

 

[CO18]

A good marth can't beat a good mk ;B
In all honesty marth just has matchups that he can't win on a high level of play
even though it is a fact he's not widely played i beleive there is a reason for that <_<

Too bad Neo ***** both seibrik and dojo.

Edit: And Omni

Also Dedede should be 4th but not like it matters lol

 

[T3h Albino]

well don't you have to come in here and make me look dumb ;B
vids or it didn't happen
i hella didn't here about it thats for sure

 

[CO18]

well don't you have to come in here and make me look dumb ;B
vids or it didn't happen
i hella didn't here about it thats for sure

I dunno how you couldm't have lol. Theres vids of him vs omni not the other 2 though, those were apex mm's.


Chaz also shouldve beat seibrik last saturday it was 1-1 chaz was up 2 stocks to 1 then sded and seibrik won last stock 120%.



roy r also beat dsfs mk at whobo then lost to his d3

Marth vs Mk def isnt that bad.

 

[Jupz]

I could never see why it was so bad in the first place :o

 

[Commander_Beef]

When was anyone ever joking about that?

Ever since the phrase started.

Also Dedede should be 4th but not like it matters lol

Out of curiosity, why should he be CO18?

 

[Browny]

Ugh i should have seen this happening. with that picture of the tier cubby house can you please change it to this one
http://i40.tinypic.com/15p0to5.png

When it spreads across multiple boards in a row, people eventually forget to credit who actually drew it and its getting a little annoying >_< im not blaming you guys or anything, im just trying to fix this up on every board it has found its way onto

 

[Jupz]

lol I always knew it was yours since I first saw it in the tier list thread.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

Personally, the way I see it is, the lower he goes, the better we look playing him, and the more credit we get for winning with him.

So he's not better than five people. So? Are you gonna stop playing him because of this? I hope not. If anything, it should drive you to play that much harder to put him back where he belongs.

However, I don't see Dedede evolving much. There's nothing else he can really do. Unless there's some odd glitch that we could stumble across, or maybe a pseudo-combo, like the one Sheik has against MK that was recently discovered.

Iunno, we'll see...

I need a new avatar.....

 

[Gates]

I need a new avatar.....

NO YOU DON'T YOUR AVATAR IS AMAZING DON'T EVER CHANGE IT DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT CHANGING IT HOW DARE YOU THINK ABOUT CHANGING IT!

Spoiler

kool kids use kaps

 

[Jupz]

Lol I was about to say something similar until I saw Gates post

What about my Dedede painting avatar?

 

[Vayseth]

Personally, the way I see it is, the lower he goes, the better we look playing him, and the more credit we get for winning with him.

LOL. I seriously doubt anyone would ever give us more credit for winning with DDD. The Japanese hate DDD like the American Smash community hates MK because "all he does is chaingrab." (I brought that up since I'm moving there, and will soon be competing against them, lol). He'll never drop enough to be considered that kind of character unless some glitch shows up which makes the opponent impossible to be grabbed.

However, I don't see Dedede evolving much. There's nothing else he can really do. Unless there's some odd glitch that we could stumble across, or maybe a pseudo-combo, like the one Sheik has against MK that was recently discovered.

I also agree with this. I've been trying to come up with different ways of playing DDD to try and mix him up but he's a hard character to mix up. DDD is a great character and it's hard to make DDD himself any better. To be a good DDD player, you have to mix it up and really outsmart your opponent.

...unless they're chaingrabbable, in which case you only need a couple grabs and a couple bairs XD

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

NO YOU DON'T YOUR AVATAR IS AMAZING DON'T EVER CHANGE IT DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT CHANGING IT HOW DARE YOU THINK ABOUT CHANGING IT!

Spoiler

kool kids use kaps

I mean, I was gonna change it to something Dedede related.

I hear the process for turning Smash snapshots into readable files is quite confusing. Is this true?

 

[CRASHiC]

I mean, I was gonna change it to something Dedede related.

I hear the process for turning Smash snapshots into readable files is quite confusing. Is this true?

No. You can upload them to your Smash Boards Album then save the image or take it to photobucket to edit.

 

[Gates]

I mean, I was gonna change it to something Dedede related.

Oh.

Well...okay then.