DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[Deleted member 189823]

I love fast DDD's. As a new DDD, that's the kind of style I'm trying to get with him. I do it with Bowser too.

 

[bubbaking]

But you have to know how to be fast with DDD, or in other words, what to execute quickly. Just dashing all over the place won't get you anywhere.

/JustSayin'...

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I agree with dewdadash, I think the only character that truly forces you to be agro is olimar. I dont think even falco's lasers really force an approach. No where near like olimar can with flippen pikman. I think olimar would be so much easier if you could power shield pikman...

 

[Deleted member 189823]

But you have to know how to be fast with DDD, or in other words, what to execute quickly. Just dashing all over the place won't get you anywhere.

/JustSayin'...

Are you saying because I my video?

But yeah, I probably don't know much about that yet. But I'm pretty open to learn on those ways.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I always make sure to practice my platform cancels as Dedede and make sure to use them in addition to my grabs because it's hellaciously fast. It opens up more options on Lylat and Smashville.

 

[bubbaking]

Also, things off the ledge can make one "fast", like ledgehop > AD > grab and ledgejump (not ledgehop) > dair.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Can you explain that? I don't know what AD is, and I can't picture what you mean.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I always make sure to practice my platform cancels as Dedede and make sure to use them in addition to my grabs because it's hellaciously fast. It opens up more options on Lylat and Smashville.

Man I tried to practice DDD's Platform cancel but I couldn't successfully get it at all... I don't know what I was doing wrong. I can do it with other characters but not DDD.

 

[bubbaking]

AD = Air Dodge

DDD's ledgehop is letting go of the ledge and double jumping (DJ) back to the stage. Now his DJ has just the perfect height and he falls at just the right speed for DDD to AD right at the beginning of his DJ and land right at the end of his AD. This gives DDD great protection for getting off the ledge against someone who's standing right there and puts DDD right in his face. So basically, you let go > DJ towards the stage > AD through whatever attack was meant to punish your ledge action > grab.

Edit: DDD has some pretty slick ledge options.

 

[Exdeath]

I agree with dewdadash, I think the only character that truly forces you to be agro is olimar. I dont think even falco's lasers really force an approach. No where near like olimar can with flippen pikman. I think olimar would be so much easier if you could power shield pikman...

Generally speaking, I disagree about only forcing to approach (e.g. , , etc.). Pikmin don't latch onto you if your shield covers you and you can shield the damage.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Generally speaking, I disagree about only forcing to approach (e.g. , , etc.). Pikmin don't latch onto you if your shield covers you and you can shield the damage.

Fox I can concede but Snake? Grenades are not a good projectile for forcing approaches. They are great for controlling space and the pace of the match but not forcing approaches.

On olimar holding your shield up till they pass all the way through is so much more of a hassle than any other projectile in this game. Pikman are stupid.

 

[DewDaDash]

if you buffer the spotdodge you'll be able to dodge fox's laser spam. But yes thats probally another MU where you kind of need to go aggro most of the time.

 

[Exdeath]

Fox I can concede but Snake? Grenades are not a good projectile for forcing approaches. They are great for controlling space and the pace of the match but not forcing approaches.

On olimar holding your shield up till they pass all the way through is so much more of a hassle than any other projectile in this game. Pikman are stupid.

If you don't approach, you take damage. At very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss (something that Pikmin don't do).

 

[Deleted member 189823]

AD = Air Dodge

DDD's ledgehop is letting go of the ledge and double jumping (DJ) back to the stage. Now his DJ has just the perfect height and he falls at just the right speed for DDD to AD right at the beginning of his DJ and land right at the end of his AD. This gives DDD great protection for getting off the ledge against someone who's standing right there and puts DDD right in his face. So basically, you let go > DJ towards the stage > AD through whatever attack was meant to punish your ledge action > grab.

Edit: DDD has some pretty slick ledge options.

That sounds pretty awesome.
I was trying to do it, but couldn't do it. Am I supposed to let go of the lege by pressing the opposite side I'm facing? I did that, and he lets go but in the other direction.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Do we agree with the mu chart that we go-2 with zamus? That has never struck me as a mu that is anywhere near the realm of say olimar...

 

[bubbaking]

If you don't approach, you take damage. At very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss (something that Pikmin don't do).

Actually, it's pretty much exactly the same with Olimar (I play against one all the time). If you don't approach, you take damage (Pikmin). A mistake at very high %'s equals a throw kill, a usmash kill, or a nair > usmash kill.

I was trying to do it, but couldn't do it. Am I supposed to let go of the lege by pressing the opposite side I'm facing? I did that, and he lets go but in the other direction.

Yes, you press the opposite side of the way you're facing, but the moment you let go, you jump towards the stage, and the moment you jump, you air dodge. So it's a quick sequence of away from the stage > up (or jump button) + towards the stage > dodge button. I do it all the time. The only stages I have some semblance of trouble with are the ones that I can pass through (Halberd, Delfino, etc). If you jump while holding away, DDD will turn around so don't do that. I don't like to let go by pressing down because it causes DDD to FF immediately and DDD falls FAST!

 

[Exdeath]

Actually, it's pretty much exactly the same with Olimar (I play against one all the time). If you don't approach, you take damage (Pikmin). A mistake at very high %'s equals a throw kill, a usmash kill, or a nair > usmash kill.

You're comparing a projectile vs. a moveset in a discussion about projectiles.

 

[bubbaking]

Exdeath, you are being extremely confusing right now...

Fox I can concede but Snake? Grenades are not a good projectile for forcing approaches. They are great for controlling space and the pace of the match but not forcing approaches.

On olimar holding your shield up till they pass all the way through is so much more of a hassle than any other projectile in this game. Pikman are stupid.

If you don't approach, you take damage. At very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss (something that Pikmin don't do).

Against Fox, "at very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss" only if Fox has a moveset to kill you with outside of lasers. I was simply comparing Olimar to Fox in the very manner that you presented Fox. You said, "If you don't apprach, you take damage [presumably from lasers]. At very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss [presumably from usmash] (something that Pikmin don't do [Why would you compare Fox's killing power to pikmin? If anything, you should be comparing Fox's killing power to Olimar's killing power]).

Edit: In other words, I could use your quoted post about Fox in the same exact way that you did but for Olimar and it would still fit perfectly.

 

[Exdeath]

Exdeath, you are being extremely confusing right now...


Against Fox, "at very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss" only if Fox has a moveset to kill you with outside of lasers. I was simply comparing Olimar to Fox in the very manner that you presented Fox. You said, "If you don't apprach, you take damage [presumably from lasers]. At very high percents, a mistake leads to a stock loss [presumably from usmash] (something that Pikmin don't do [Why would you compare Fox's killing power to pikmin? If anything, you should be comparing Fox's killing power to Olimar's killing power]).

I must admit that I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with you misquoting/misunderstanding/etc. my posts. I was referring to Snake's Neutral B, which can both cause damage and kill at a reasonable percent.

 

[bubbaking]

I never once misquoted you because I've always used the QUOTE button. As for misunderstanding, well, Snake, Fox, and Oli were all being talked about, and your post was very vague as to who you were referring to. I assumed Fox because Bobwithlobsters already said, "Grenades are not a good projectile for forcing approaches. They are great for controlling space and the pace of the match but not forcing approaches." Therefore, they are not causing damage for not approaching (which is true; it isn't that hard to avoid damage from grenades).

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Snakes grenades dont tack on damage consistently like fox's lasers or pikman though. Grenades in my experience generally get their damage from hitting snake while hes holding one or hitting one after he shield drops one as you hit his shield. Its not like he is throwing grenades at the rate fox or olimar does. Grenades are stupid easy to avoid in comparison from long range.

edit: dang got ninja'd by bubba

 

[bubbaking]

Snake's camping is strong because it prevents approaches, not because it forces them. Falco's (and Olimar's) camping is supreme because it forces approaching while making the very act of approaching extremely difficult. In other words, Snake's grenades are great when Snake already has the lead (or during a tie), because they help him keep that lead quite securely. Falco's (and Olimar's) actually do work towards taking that lead back and also annoy you to the point that there is a greater chance you will slip up and lose your lead.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Bob is stupid. Hes wrong and doesnt know what hes talking about.

All grenades do is force approaches. If you can run away forever and win the match then youre not forced to approach. Snake forces you to approach because he does more damage with nades and other projectiles than you do with waddles. Which means in order to win/ not lose the lead, you have to approach him.

And lol at trying to play the semantics game with falco.
If you as ddd, dont approach falco, you lose the lead. You dont lose the game because he has to approach to kill, but its 15 times easier if he can get all his damage from afar.

Snake can actually rack damage and kill you from the other side of the stage, you are forced to approach him as ddd

 

[Exdeath]

I never once misquoted you because I've always used the QUOTE button. As for misunderstanding, well, Snake, Fox, and Oli were all being talked about, and your post was very vague as to who you were referring to. I assumed Fox because Bobwithlobsters already said, "Grenades are not a good projectile for forcing approaches. They are great for controlling space and the pace of the match but not forcing approaches." Therefore, they are not causing damage for not approaching (which is true; it isn't that hard to avoid damage from grenades).

Alright, I'm done.

Snakes grenades dont tack on damage consistently like fox's lasers or pikman though. Grenades in my experience generally get their damage from hitting snake while hes holding one or hitting one after he shield drops one as you hit his shield. Its not like he is throwing grenades at the rate fox or olimar does. Grenades are stupid easy to avoid in comparison from long range.

How are grenades inconsistent in their damage?

That aside, I'm not aware of any high-level vs. matches that don't involve being forced to approach. I agree that it is possible on a theoretical level, but it's impractical to avoid 's Neutral B over for a notable period of time. It's not like vs. Falco where they travel within a linear time and space and if they hit you they'll likely deal 1-2%; grenades' hit boxes are fairly dynamic in both timing and zoning while having a secondary explosion that is similar to 's Utilt.

 

[bubbaking]

I fail to see how Snake forces DDD to approach on plat stages like PS, BF, Delfino, and others when you can just use them to avoid the grenades...

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Staying outside of mid range does nothing for Dedede in that MU. If he tries to just camp Snake will win a very slow battle of attrition. It's not that we HAVE to but there's no benefit in not approaching here. That includes stages with platforms. Platforms actually enhance Snake's ability to camp. Anytime, we leave the ground vs Snake we take a risk.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Always go in with the king, no exceptions.

 

[Coney]

just don't be soft

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Bob is stupid. Hes wrong and doesnt know what hes talking about.

All grenades do is force approaches. If you can run away forever and win the match then youre not forced to approach. Snake forces you to approach because he does more damage with nades and other projectiles than you do with waddles. Which means in order to win/ not lose the lead, you have to approach him.

And lol at trying to play the semantics game with falco.
If you as ddd, dont approach falco, you lose the lead. You dont lose the game because he has to approach to kill, but its 15 times easier if he can get all his damage from afar.

Snake can actually rack damage and kill you from the other side of the stage, you are forced to approach him as ddd

Yes clearly my plan was to beat snake by throwing waddles at him and never approach because ddd has the best projectile in the game...

You invented a position for me that I never said then called me stupid for this imaginary position... Of course you have to approach if you want to do damage or kill, but its not like olimar where you have to be in his face all match. Against snake you can choose to not approach with no great penalty and choose when you feel like moving in. that is what I was trying to say and it was uncalled to start insulting...

 

[bubbaking]

I agree with the insulting part.

Edit: But these are the boards, so I guess that's a bit much to ask for...

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Talking about Snake's grenades...I'm pretty damn awful at avoiding them. I just don't know how to play with items very aside from being able to, like, a Glide toss with Wario. It doesn't help when I use Bowser and DDD (at least DDD has multiple jumps, but it doesn't help me when it comes to approaching him).
What is the best option against granades in my case? I've been told to learn instant-throwing (I think I've got this one, but I haven't tried it against a Snake yet)

 

[bubbaking]

The problem with attempting to throw the grenades back at Snake is that he can actually force a grenade to fall exactly where he wants it to after he's pulled out another 'nade. He can even make the one you're holding fall straight out of your hands.

 

[4GOD (JJV)]

Well 4god is my favorite ddd. But not saying you should not be fast. Just to play campier and not over commit. More bait and punish than super agro.

Why does Bobwithlobsters make so much sense? :D

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Why does Bobwithlobsters make so much sense? :D

Because I'm terrible and try to out camp snake with waddles.

Plus I've only been lurking these boards for like 5 years now.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

The problem with attempting to throw the grenades back at Snake is that he can actually force a grenade to fall exactly where he wants it to after he's pulled out another 'nade. He can even make the one you're holding fall straight out of your hands.

If you're paying attention to when he pulls them and how long he cooks them, you can safely determine whether it's a good idea to try to throw them back or not. Learn to have a mental timer. Everytime I have ever just got straight mopped by a Snake is because I wasn't paying attention to how long they were cooking grenades, got hit, lost momentum and yeah....lol. Counting to 4-Mississippi is a pretty good way to keep track of nades before they explode. If they cook them longer than 2, then its usually not a good idea to pick them up assuming they're gonna just Shield Drop the second one. If they cook them for longer periods of time and you're not in long range (you shouldn't be in long range willingly anyway....) then you can poke em with F-Tilt (very useful in this scenario).


EDIT: Also just in general, playing Dedede at high levels is moreso about being able to have a handle on both the fast and "In your face like Coney" style and the slower, reactionary style. Each style has its niche in most matchups and has its benefits and drawbacks. Too many people (myself included) play in a "default" mode too often when in reality, the only way you're gonna really profit with a character like this is by using both sides of the coin.

The only time time you can't really play defensive is in the Olimar MU and in my opinion the only time you get straight up wrecked going aggro is vs MK.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Should have been more clear then.

Ps. Tenure on boards isnt worth much. But good shee on being devoted to something for that long

 

[DewDaDash]

Just bought my plane tix. Its official now! Cya guys at apex

 

[Deleted member 189823]

...I just realize Apex is next month.
And that I won't be there. Again.

 

[White91]

Yeah Nova Scotia is driving down for apex, should be a hoot

 

[Exdeath]

Today I Up-Bed by the left platform of Battlefield and came down on someone shielding on the right platform, slid off of the platform and had the animation end in time to safely grab the ledge.

/useless gimmick

I would like to repeat my opinion that Dair is an underutilized gimping tool. It's like 's sour spot Dair.