Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Delzethin]

Apologies for going dark again for a few days. There was something that demanded as much attention as I could give it.

And now...it's finished.

 

[RandomAce]

Apologies for going dark again for a few days. There was something that demanded as much attention as I could give it.

And now...it's finished.

Not a lot different from the original video. But it’s still nice to see you talk about what the moves will actually do.

I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned any Midday or Midnight alts. But if Dusk were to get in, he’d probably have either as alts.

 

[RandomAce]

Some interesting news from Vergeben.

Vergeben has another update.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76866145?jumpto=83#83

"Decidueye isn't the Gen 7 Pokemon character."

Seems that Decidueye, our bingest competitor, is effectively dead, with only Incineroar left.

This is looking very good Lycanroc. We pushed this far, we’re getting closer to Lycanroc actually becoming our Pokémon newcomer.
I actually kind of wanted Deicidueye, hoping for Midday and Midnight Lycanroc of course!

 

[BluePikmin11]

WE ARE GETTING CLOSE TO THE LYCANROC BOYS!

 

[PeridotGX]

Decidueye's been my most wanted Pokémon, now that's he's looking out of the running I'll double down on Lycanroc. TBH I've been losing hope on him anyways, just I haven't had the heart to go from predicting "Gen 7 Pokémon" to "Lycanroc"

 

[Questionmark222]

Some interesting news from Vergeben.

Seems that Decidueye, our bingest competitor, is effectively dead, with only Incineroar left.

This is looking very good Lycanroc. We pushed this far, we’re getting closer to Lycanroc actually becoming our Pokémon newcomer.
I actually kind of wanted Deicidueye, hoping for Midday and Midnight Lycanroc of course!

Was about to post that, but this is great news! Although Decidueye isn't even that likely, most speculators just bandwagoned on him when his design was revealed, although I wouldn't mind him at all.

And even Lycanroc's other "competitors" don't have that great of a shot. Incineroar and Tapu Koko, from a moveset perspective, would just be redundant since we already have Electric and Fire type mons, and Mimikyu's popularity didn't skyrocket until around SuMo's release, which was almost a year after the initial project proposal for Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

Got room for one more? I would love if Lycanroc, got in and I mean that. It's a great Pokemon and is amazing!

 

[dangeraaron10]

I seen the news. Vergeben has been on a roll lately but he's made mistakes in the past.

When I seen it, it gave me a little more hope for Lycanroc. Still wouldn't mind seeing him, as he'd be a nice consolation prize for me wanting Wolf Link as a player character (he wouldn't be without Midna is still AT status). Plus, Rock Type earthbending moves. Would make up for his quadrupedal stance.

Still prefer Midday and Dusk forms to Midnight by a country mile or three. And honest to goodness wolf character sounds really cool (no offense, bipedal Wolf of Star Wolf).

 

[RandomAce]

Apparently Lycanroc is deconfimed now?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76868944/906238487
(Credit to ????????????? and IntelliHeath1 )

WE WERE SO CLOSE! But, I’m not giving up yet, I’ll take Dusk at this point.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Apparently Lycanroc is deconfimed now?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76868944/906238487
(Credit to ????????????? and IntelliHeath1 )

WE WERE SO CLOSE! But, I’m not giving up yet, I’ll take Dusk at this point.

So what, we all get on the InCENAroar train now?

 

[RandomAce]

So what, we all get on the InCENAroar train now?

Not yet, he still hasn’t specified who it is yet, and there is that chance that he is wrong (and we get our stone wolves after all).

His act over this has already been shady as is, so we need to keep an eye out. Let’s support our stone wolves as much as we can and hope that he’s wrong.

Though I wonder, Delzethin , what do you think of this?

 

[dangeraaron10]

Not yet, he still hasn’t specified who it is yet, and there is that chance that he is wrong (and we get our stone wolves after all).

His act over this has already been shady as is, so we need to keep an eye out. Let’s support our stone wolves as much as we can and hope that he’s wrong.

Though I wonder, Delzethin , what do you think of this?

I mean, if it's not those three (archer owl, rock wolf, evil-chu) then who the hell could it possibly be?

Those were the three big ones for speculation.

Assuming Vergeben isn't just ****ing with us for some reason then ...who?

 

[RandomAce]

I mean, if it's not those three (archer owl, rock wolf, evil-chu) then who the hell could it possibly be?

Those were the three big ones for speculation.

Assuming Vergeben isn't just ****ing with us for some reason then ...who?

Either like Incineroar, or Buzzwhole.

But let’s not to much stock into it right now.

 

[PeridotGX]

I mean, if it's not those three (archer owl, rock wolf, evil-chu) then who the hell could it possibly be?

Those were the three big ones for speculation.

Assuming Vergeben isn't just ****ing with us for some reason then ...who?

Incineroar or Buzzwole are the only plausible ones left

 

[dangeraaron10]

Either like Incineroar, or Buzzwhole.

But let’s not to much stock into it right now.

Wouldn't put it past Sakurai to look at a list of options for a Pokemon character and go "Whoa, that wrestling tiger looks cool, I bet he'll be the most popular" and went with him during the project plan.

Incineroar or Buzzwole are the only plausible ones left

It's probably going to be Incineroar, assuming Vergeben is credible.

 

[Deleted member]

Incineroar? wouldn't mind my second favourite Alola Pokemon after Decidueye, would be glad to see it.

But won't give up on Lycanroc hope it's chances are still strong. To me they are?

If it's not these 4 what about the Ultra Beasts could be one of them?


Or maybe Verge is just messing and there is no new Pokemon.

Ether way this is just entertaining to me at this point. I'll see how it unfolds.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Of all our in-depth analyses made for Lycanroc, is there a hole in some of our reasons that Lycanroc would not be playable, despite being the primary Pokemon for Ash in the anime, the numerous notable promotions of Lycanroc in other PKMN media, and his moveset potential?

How much actual promotion is Incineroar getting when compared to Lycanroc? This is just a curious question, assuming Lycanroc is not playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me see, it was one of the main Pokemon used by the Main trainer Ash faced in Pokemon the movie I Choose You.

The Masked Royal has one and Ash's Torracat seems to have a friendly or fierce rivalry with it.

I can't remember where but the developers were asked which starter was their favourite Junuchi Masuda said Incineroar.

So it definetly has support definetly as popular as any of the other choices. But as good as Lycanroc's rooting for both but definetly with the rock wolf.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Of all our in-depth analyses made for Lycanroc, is there a hole in some of our reasons that Lycanroc would not be playable, despite being the primary Pokemon for Ash in the anime, the numerous notable promotions of Lycanroc in other PKMN media, and his moveset potential?

How much actual promotion is Incineroar getting when compared to Lycanroc? This is just a curious question, assuming Lycanroc is not playable.

He got in a Pokémon Movie first. Lycanroc Midnight also appeared, however he never did the fighting.
Plus Ash is probably getting an Incineroar soon.
I thought it was going to be Incineroar, Mimikyu or Lycanroc. If none of the last two get in (IF we believe this leak), then I am 99% certain it will be the cat.
1% for an UB.

 

[dangeraaron10]

I wonder if Silvally might be it.

He's kinda special, and did rather well in the Japanese popularity poll for Gen 7 Pokemon a while back.

It's probably going to be Incineroar.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

While Vergeben is somewhat credible, remember that he has gotten parts of leaks wrong before. Look at fighterz, I see no raditz or zarbon. Still something to take into account, but it’s not doomsday time.

 

[BluePikmin11]

When Vergeben was referring to the 7th Gen Pokemon, this was the "mysterious 3rd" character he said had a shaky source if I am correct? Right?

 

[Skyblade12]

I personally don't think Lycanroc is getting in (or any Pokemon, for that matter). But I would like to just remind everyone that there is very little reason to believe Virgiburber, and every time he talks, he damages his own credibility.

A leaker leaks things. They don't laugh and gloat and say "ha ha, I know but I'm not going to tell you". That's what the Resetera mods did before E3. And what do you know, it turned out they had nothing.

None of you find it funny that Veggieburger still claims he has multiple sources, while no one else has any? You don't find it odd that he said his sources were stopping because Nintendo was hunting hard for leakers and passing around false info? You think it's just a coincidence that before E3, he'd talked about the "trustworthiness" of his sources, and now they're all just 100% factual? You don't wonder how he got ICs and Snake, but not "Everyone is Here!" and Pichu/Young Link?

His prediction of Castlevania being shown off a week after E3 was backtracked from. Simon hasn't shown up. He "leaked" six more characters after E3 (funny, that's the same one character per month rate everyone predicted), but we've now been two months with nothing.

He predicted Ridley. He wasn't the only one. There is no other reason to believe anything he has to say.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

When Vergeben was referring to the 7th Gen Pokemon, this was the character he said had a shaky source if I am correct? Right?

Vergeben was saying he had shaky sources in the past like with fighterz. He got parts of fighterz right like Broly Bardock and Base goku and vegeta, but like Raditz and Zarbon he insisted on did not appear and based on datamines will not for s1.

 

[Deleted member]

When Vergeben was referring to the 7th Gen Pokemon, this was the character he said had a shaky source if I am correct? Right?

If I remember yes, I think he said he wasn't sure who it was. Could be anyone or thing. Good memory BluePikmin11 the rock wolf still has a chance. Till it gets confirmed or not I'm happy to be here supporting it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Until the time a Pokemon newcomer gets revealed, this will be one of our most intense times waiting ever. All I can do now is cross my fingers. lol

 

[ThunderOverload]

Add me to the support list boys!

 

[Deleted member]

Until the time a Pokemon newcomer gets revealed, this will be one of our most intense times waiting ever. All I can do now is cross my fingers. lol

Hope you don't have to wait to much longer BluePikmin11 Lycanroc will have it's day. If it dosen't get in I'm sorry but least it has a strong prescience regardless and we all support it. Even beyond Super Smash Bros.

 

[RandomAce]

I personally don't think Lycanroc is getting in (or any Pokemon, for that matter). But I would like to just remind everyone that there is very little reason to believe Virgiburber, and every time he talks, he damages his own credibility.

A leaker leaks things. They don't laugh and gloat and say "ha ha, I know but I'm not going to tell you". That's what the Resetera mods did before E3. And what do you know, it turned out they had nothing.

None of you find it funny that Veggieburger still claims he has multiple sources, while no one else has any? You don't find it odd that he said his sources were stopping because Nintendo was hunting hard for leakers and passing around false info? You think it's just a coincidence that before E3, he'd talked about the "trustworthiness" of his sources, and now they're all just 100% factual? You don't wonder how he got ICs and Snake, but not "Everyone is Here!" and Pichu/Young Link?

His prediction of Castlevania being shown off a week after E3 was backtracked from. Simon hasn't shown up. He "leaked" six more characters after E3 (funny, that's the same one character per month rate everyone predicted), but we've now been two months with nothing.

He predicted Ridley. He wasn't the only one. There is no other reason to believe anything he has to say.

I had some doubts past E3. It was starting to get conduluded with his information, like he just used his information from E3 to get his ego up.

Until the time a Pokemon newcomer gets revealed, this will be one of our most intense times waiting ever. All I can do now is cross my fingers. lol

Lycanroc and Incineroar are in a tight race. Both have been extremely prominent and have unique aspects. I also want Delzethin's thoughts on this.

Really am hoping for this to inevitably become a Lycanroc social thread soon. We're so close we can do it!

Add me to the support list boys!

Right when we were in this mist of our hopes dying!

We need someone to create and update the support list honestly.

 

[noise r us]

i still do not trust anything mr vergeben says. every guess hes made so far has been pretty safe except for this latest one. im still in the lycanroc boat and i aint gettin off until we get official confirmations that its sunk

 

[Delzethin]

So...strange night, huh? Where do we stand now after this whiplash of rumors?

I have no idea.

Full disclosure: There's a reason I waited to say something. I was messaged by someone earlier, between Vergeben's first post and his second. I won't say who for confidentiality reasons, but it's someone who I know wouldn't deliberately deceive me, who I wasn't aware was privy to these same rumors about Ultimate. They relayed me what they heard, and it was exactly the same as Vergeben's second post a short while later.

However. They also mentioned that they, and some other insiders whose names they didn't give, weren't as confident about the rumors surrounding the Pokémon newcomer in particular. They didn't elaborate, for understandable reasons, but apparently something made this one iffier than Simon or Isabelle. Considering Vergeben dropped the latter's name last week in what appeared to be a fit of frustration over the community falling for fake leaks so easily, there's a chance--I don't know how likely--that he may have made a tragic mistake, and jumped the gun here and said something based on information that hadn't been confirmed.

In other words, this may be a repeat of the Gematsu Leak during Smash 4 speculation: Mostly correct, but with a few slip ups, potentially as a result of the leaker jumping to conclusions they shouldn't have. We are now in the exact same position Robin was four years ago...with no idea if we'll see the same redemption.

Not gonna lie, I'm worried. I've gained such a reputation of reading between the lines, noticing details that others overlook or brush off. But if it turns out I was dead wrong the entire time, then what am I? Little more than a village idiot spouting nonsense in the town square, who passerby tune out and then make fun of once they're out of earshot. Heh...seems like no matter what I do, I just can't escape that fate.

But...that fate isn't yet etched in stone this time.

For now, we should follow in the footsteps of the tacticians four years ago: Gather as much information as we can, analyze it as thoroughly as possible, and figure out just what may be going on here and whether this rumor holds ground or not.

Decidueye fans, I'm sorry it happened this way, but your chances may not be done. Incineroar fans, I'm sorry for what you're about to be associated with, as every bandwagoner in this entire damn fandom is about to jump on board with you and harass anyone who hasn't. As for us...things are murkier now that we have a loss condition in play, but the sun hasn't set on us just yet.

It's up to us to prove it.

 

[Cosmic77]

I knew Incineroar was Lycanroc's biggest competition, so if it were to get in Smash, I wouldn't be taken back or anything. If it's anyone aside from Incineroar or Lycanroc, then I'll have absolutely no idea who it could be.

Regardless, grain of salt everyone. Lycanroc hasn't been disconfirmed just yet, and there's still plenty of reasons why we shouldn't assume it's over.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Honestly feels like Vergeben just got lucky with the Ridley and Snake prediction, and at this point he's is just trying to keep this up as long as possible. I don't take what he has to say seriously. Sure, he has gotten some things right thus far, and has gotten some things right about other games in the past, but he's far from a spotless record.

It seems to me like whenever some time has passed without himself being talked about, he says something new to bring back the spotlight. Such as saying any leak without Simon or Isabelle is false, saying certain characters won't make it in, etc. It's another cry for attention, and I think it's only a matter of time before something he says gets proven false.

I don't believe Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu to be deconfirmed by any means. Nor am I going to assume that Incineroar is confirmed. It's too early to tell, especially when it comes from a somewhat spotty source.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

Although I'm not much of a fan of (main-series) Pokémon myself, having seen your most recent video definitely got me interested in seeing him playable, and despite everything, I still believe that Lycanroc is still a front-runner for a new Pokémon character, assuming we get one.

In regards to Vergeben, like many have said, he's certainly not known for having a perfect track record. I'm not inclined to believe everything he says. (And not just because I have certain gripes with his role within the community.) Reason being him spilling this much information after saying he wouldn't say any more a little while ago. (Atleast I'm pretty sure he did, so correct me if I'm wrong.)
It's just, his behaviour has been sticking out like a sore thumb to me. First saying Isabelle would be in and now saying neither Decidueye, Lycanroc, nor Mimikyu are in but someone else is? I mean, there are plenty of good choices, don't get me wrong, but with him "deconfirming" three of the most popular(/probable) picks shortly after leaking another character makes me wonder why he doesn't just say who it is at this point.

But anyway, right now, we should not conclude anything, I believe cautious optimism is in order. While he doesn't have a perfect track record, he's still got a track record nonetheless. Best thing we can hope for is that this is one of the rumored "false rumors" being spread around nintendo employees.

Consider me a supporter, while Lycanroc isn't as high of a hope for me as Bandana Dee and Rayman are, I'd love to see the wolfboye fight as a playable character.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Apparently Lycanroc is deconfimed now?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76868944/906238487
(Credit to ????????????? and IntelliHeath1 )

WE WERE SO CLOSE! But, I’m not giving up yet, I’ll take Dusk at this point.

The topic is gone what did it say?

 

[BluePikmin11]

There is just some things I wanna list regarding the Pokemon newcomers:

1. Was the Pokemon criteria actually said by Sakurai? I believe this is where the original source of the Pokemon part was:

https://www.nowgamer.com/pokemon-in-super-smash-bros-how-theyre-selected/

NowGamer is now defunct and the writer is not listed, but maybe we could find the person responsible for asking this question to Sakurai in E3 2013.

2. How much promotion Incineroar and Buzzwole have been getting in the anime, TCG, games, etc.

3. If by chance Incineroar was chosen, why would he be chosen when a somewhat similar character like Charizard was planned from Ultimate in the beginning. I doubt Sakurai would be able to meaningly distinguish Incin from Charizard.

4. Whether or not having the most notable degree of promotion in other Pokemon media really matters. Maybe just having a degree of promotion, even if it was planned to be moderately marketed for Sakurai to take interest in the Pokemon. (Assuming the Pokemon criteria is real)

Honestly if none of the new Generation 7 Pokemon Vergeben listed in his rumor get chosen, I can see Buzzwole happening. The concept art of Ultra Beasts probably could have caught Sakurai's attention in terms of their sharp design more than the starters, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu. And Ultra Beasts have been getting a fair degree of promotion when it comes to the games, though not so much when it comes to the anime.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

There is just some things I wanna list regarding the Pokemon newcomers:

1. Was the Pokemon criteria actually said by Sakurai? I believe this is where the original source of the Pokemon part was:

https://www.nowgamer.com/pokemon-in-super-smash-bros-how-theyre-selected/

NowGamer is now defunct and the writer is not listed, but maybe we could find the person responsible for asking this question to Sakurai in E3 2013.

2. How much promotion Incineroar and Buzzwole have been getting in the anime, TCG, games, etc.

3. If by chance Incineroar was chosen, why would he be chosen when a somewhat similar character like Charizard was planned from Ultimate in the beginning. I doubt Sakurai would be able to meaningly distinguish Incin from Charizard IMO.

4. Whether or not having the most notable degree of promotion in other Pokemon media really matters. Maybe just having a degree of promotion, even if it was planned to be moderately marketed for Sakurai to take interest in the Pokemon. (Assuming the Pokemon criteria is real)

Honestly if none of the new Generation 7 Pokemon Vergeben listed in his rumor get chosen, I can see Buzzwole happening. The concept art of Ultra Beasts probably could have caught Sakurai's attention in terms of their sharp design more than the starters, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu. And Ultra Beasts have been getting a fair degree of promotion when it comes to the games, though not so much when it comes to the anime.

Honestly I would be happy with Buzzwole it is the best ultra beast. It’s design is so weird and dumb that I love it. Though tbh I only like Celesteela, Kartana, Buzzwole, and Nihilego. I could see Sakurai going for a lifesteal mechanic with buzzwole to make it unique.

Still, would rather have lycanroc, but it beats Tapu Koko.

 

[RandomAce]

The topic is gone what did it say?

It’s up on reddit. No Mimikyu, and Lycanroc.

Mimikyu was a pretty easy dismiss, but Lycanroc is a more harder pill to swallow. Though we now know from Delzethin that Verge might have jumped the gun to quick, and insiders (or other leakers) weren’t sure that it their supposed Pokémon newcomer is actually the one currently worked on in the game. So we still have a chance.

 

[Deleted member]

Yawn DasVergeben is a interesting fellow entertaining stuff to say the least.

Lycanroc's chances are still good in my eyes.

 

[dangeraaron10]

It’s up on reddit. No Mimikyu, and Lycanroc.

Mimikyu was a pretty easy dismiss, but Lycanroc is a more harder pill to swallow. Though we now know from Delzethin that Verge might have jumped the gun to quick, and insiders (or other leakers) weren’t sure that it their supposed Pokémon newcomer is actually the one currently worked on in the game. So we still have a chance.

Oooo. Got a link?