Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Ark of Silence101]

Yknow as time goes by, I am more and more confident lycanroc is gonna be in. Everything seems so well aligned for him right now. Incineroar also has a shot, but I feel lycanroc being more interesting moveset wise will help him a lot.

I also happen to think that Lycanroc's stiffiest competition is Incineroar rather than Decidueye, because the former has had more exposure than the later aside from not appearing in Pokken. That being said I am still all in for Lycanroc in Smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

I also happen to think that Lycanroc's stiffiest competition is Incineroar rather than Decidueye, because the former has had more exposure than the later aside from not appearing in Pokken. That being said I am still all in for Lycanroc in Smash.

Incineroar is way more prominent in the anime, has more popularity in Japan, and arguably has the best concept art out of the three starters.

Regardless of which came first - Sakurai's Pokemon pick for Smash or the SuMo anime script - we likely would've seen some form of anime promotion for the Pokemon he went with. Even something simple like featuring the Pokemon in an anime movie would've made sense. However, because we've seen little to nothing of Primarina and Decidueye in the anime, and because their pre-evolved counterparts, Popplio and Rowlet, show no signs of evolving into their second form this late in the show, I'm convinced that Incineroar is the only starter with the promotion to back up an inclusion in Smash.

From my perspective, Lycanroc and Incineroar are the two to look at. Both have been getting some deep character development in the anime from early episodes up until now, and that tells me the writers have always planned for these two Pokemon to be a big part of the SuMo story. If we get a Pokemon in Smash, I'm willing to bet it's one of these two.

Oh, and there's Mimikyu too. Not feeling as strong about it since we already have two Pikachu characters in Smash now, but it's worth remembering that it has been making regular anime appearances and has popularity to back it up. I just feel like it's role in the show hasn't been as notable as others, making it more of a popular but never sincere character like Rowlet is. I still think it's more likely to be a Pokeball Pokemon in Smash, but I won't ignore its chances entirely.

 

[Delzethin]

Don't mind me, just catching up on messages. Been hard at work on the next project, and I keep running out of time to reply.

Why did they solely start off with the Day form? If anything Sakurai most likely planned to use Midday with Midnight but not on it’s own, it doesn’t make sense.

I agree, I think Dusk is probably the most likely, but by a little.

At this point, I think we're looking at three possible scenarios:

1. Dusk Lycanroc as a standalone.

2. Midday and Midnight, as a sort of transforming/stance-based fighter.

3. Midday and Midnight again, but with Dusk as an echo of Midday that can't transform.

Throwing in my support for this dog. In his quadrupedal forms he has easily become one of my favourite Pokemon and I'd love to see him in Smash. I think there's a lot of potential for an interesting moveset.

As for his chances, I'd put my money on either him or Incineroar getting in. Sakurai would probably feel that Mimikyu, while popular and pushed, would be too visually similar to Pikachu and Pichu (even if using ghost/dark moves), and I don't personally think there's much potential to make him a new and exciting character. The other likely candidate, Decidueye, is popular and interesting but I think it's important to keep in mind that Greninja wasn't chosen for Pokken because of his inclusion in Smash. I then think that Decidueye's presence in Pokken may very well mean he wasn't chosen for Smash Ultimate.

Welcome! We may not number many, but we may be on to something that most of the fanbase has unduly overlooked.

 

[Eagle]

I think it'd be really cool if Rockruff was the playable character but he evolves permanently during the match upon a certain condition (like taking a stock or two) and what he evolves into depends on the time of day or something. To be honest I just wanna play as Rockruff, easily the best Pokemon out of SuMo.

 

[Gengar84]

Feel free to add me to the support list. Lycanroc is my second most wanted generation 7 rep after Golisopod. Personally, I would prefer his midnight form but I would be happy with any of his forms getting in. While I like the starters, I do get tired of so many people assuming that there are no other options and Decidueye is a shoo-in.

 

[P.Kat]

Hi, giving my support to our wolf earthbender, it'll make a great Gen 7 newcomer especially if we get its Dusk Form.

 

[Delzethin]

Feel free to add me to the support list. Lycanroc is my second most wanted generation 7 rep after Golisopod. Personally, I would prefer his midnight form but I would be happy with any of his forms getting in. While I like the starters, I do get tired of so many people assuming that there are no other options and Decidueye is a shoo-in.

Hi, giving my support to our wolf earthbender, it'll make a great Gen 7 newcomer especially if we get its Dusk Form.

Welcome to the both of you! Seems like things are picking up around here despite the lack of major news since E3.

Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind if we got some kind of update on the blog that pointed toward us. Something like next week's music being an arrangement of Vast Poni Canyon, or the like...

 

[Cosmic77]

Even if people aren't as confident in a Pokemon newcomer, I think a new stage is a given. Heck, one of the reasons why I'm feeling confident we're getting a newcomer is because a new Pokemon stage hasn't been seen yet.

Anyway, what would really help our case is if we knew which starter Pokemon are Pokeball Pokemon. In the previous Smash game, Froakie was the only Kalos starter who didn't become a Pokeball Pokemon. If we were to see someone like Rowlet or Litten in a Pokeball, then that might be a soft (but not definite) disconfirmation of Decidueye and Incineroar respectively.

 

[RandomAce]

Even if people aren't as confident in a Pokemon newcomer, I think a new stage is a given. Heck, one of the reasons why I'm feeling confident we're getting a newcomer is because a new Pokemon stage hasn't been seen yet.

Anyway, what would really help our case is if we knew which starter Pokemon are Pokeball Pokemon. In the previous Smash game, Froakie was the only Kalos starter who didn't become a Pokeball Pokemon. If we were to see someone like Rowlet or Litten in a Pokeball, then that might be a soft (but not definite) disconfirmation of Decidueye and Incineroar respectively.

I feel that they aren’t showing the rests of the poke balls yet to accidentally reveal who is going to be added.

I’m pretty sure they know which Pokémon from Gen 7 people are speculating on and don’t want to confirm anything until they reveal the newcomer.

When do you guys think the Gen 7 Pokémon (Lycanroc) reveal will happen?

 

[Delzethin]

When do you guys think the Gen 7 Pokémon (Lycanroc) reveal will happen?

In all honesty...it could happen at any point between now and release. Last time, Greninja was revealed a little over halfway into Smash 4's hype cycle. The time before that, Lucario was a secret character who wasn't formally introduced until after Brawl was out.

Though the fact that this year's Pokémon games aren't featuring anything of Gen 7 aside from Alolan Forms may give them reason to reveal a newcomer sooner, to keep the streams from being crossed, so to speak...

 

[RandomAce]

Okay, so I started looking back and Lycanroc, and I’m starting to like the Dusk form a little bit more after my “rage” in my through opinion on Lycanroc (though my stance remains unchanged).

Y’know I was looking at the Elma thread recently and I realized how much support Elma has recieved over the past couple of months, with over 50 supporters that would love to play as her and believe that she will get in compeared to last year where she was dead in the water, and I kind of wish we had the same thing with Lycanroc. It kinda sucks how there so many possibilities with this game’s Pokémon newcomer this time around.

Hopefully the Pokémon reveal will blow everyone away when Lycanroc gets revealed!

 

[Eagle]

You can add me to the supporter list. I'd take Lycanroc in any form. Especially

Spoiler

Rockruff.

 

[Cosmic77]

This was brought up yesterday in the general discussion thread. Doesn't really pertain to Lycanroc's chance's of getting in, but this provides a more detailed look at the Pokémon Dream poll and how popular Dusk Lycanroc is in Japan.

Spoiler: Large image

There's about a one point difference between both 4th and 6th for Lycanroc. Can't quite top Mimikyu, but it's pretty impressive when you realize both Incineroar and Decidueye got less than 2% in votes while Lycanroc almost cracked 4%. Not too shabby, don't you think? And who knows? If the anime keeps promoting him like it currently is, maybe we'll see him crack 3rd or 2nd place in a future poll.

Again, popularity likely won't play a factor in Ultimate's new Pokémon rep, but it's reassuring to know Lycanroc in Smash would likely be well-received at least in Japan.

 

[Delzethin]

You can add me to the supporter list. I'd take Lycanroc in any form. Especially

Spoiler

Rockruff.

Ah, welcome! Apologies for the lull in action lately; I'm busy hammering out the last parts of a project and we're all waiting on more news.

 

[RandomAce]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Delzethin/status/1018272520187863040

Redone character concept that is in dire need of an update?

It’s Dusk Lycanroc isn’t it. Delz! I know you long enough to know what your planning!

Hopefully it comes out soon!

 

[Delzethin]

Another quiet few days...

Let's shift gears a little with a question: If Lycanroc does get into Ultimate, what is one thing, above all else, that you'd want to see implemented?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I do not have much that I want from Lycanroc to be honest. The only thing I want really is for Lycanroc to have its midnight form playable. That form is the closest thing I will get to a playable Zoroark. ;_;

 

[RandomAce]

Another quiet few days...

Let's shift gears a little with a question: If Lycanroc does get into Ultimate, what is one thing, above all else, that you'd want to see implemented?

This one is obvious, I want a stance change mechanic that allows you to switch between Midday and Midnight Lycanroc, and Dusk can be a Midday alt. That is what I want implemented and Lycanroc will be my main.
I also just want a playable Midday and Midnight Lycanroc.

 

[Cosmic77]

Another quiet few days...

Let's shift gears a little with a question: If Lycanroc does get into Ultimate, what is one thing, above all else, that you'd want to see implemented?

I'm not picky. I've come to love all three forms, and I'm not sure I can pick a favorite. Any of them will do. I'm also not really concerned about the moveset, as Sakurai would almost be required to do something creative to make Lycanroc work in Smash.

I guess the only things I'm really pining for are alt colors based off of the forms that don't make it in, and Lycanroc's exclusive Z-move as its Final Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

I personally prefer Lycanroc's Midnight form to its other forms but I would be happy either way. I'm probably one of the few that gets partially excited for a character for its skeleton for modding potential (probably due to my years as a Brawl modder under the name Aafyre). This is one reason I'd be just as happy with Midday or Dusk since it fills a niche that we are lacking as far as skeletons go. Having a semi-realistic dog character would allow mods of some of my favorite Pokemon like Houndoom or Suicune as well as a potential Wolf Link or Amaterasu.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I really want it to be dusk imo it is the best looking one. Have the other two show up for the z move and I’ll be happy.

 

[Garteam]

Hey guys, I just wanted to come and pledge my support for Wolf Pokemon. Lycanroc is in my top 5 most wanted, being one of my personal favourite 'mons and a main stay on my team in Ultra Sun. Plus, it feels like most people have been sleeping on Lycanroc as a character due to its competition in Decidueye and Mimikyu, so its nice to know there's others out there who have a similar opinion on the likeliness of our favourite stone canine.

Personally, I want to see Lycanroc's Dusk form, as its the one I have the most attachment to personally. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Day or Midnight forms in the game.

 

[Delzethin]

Hey guys, I just wanted to come and pledge my support for Wolf Pokemon. Lycanroc is in my top 5 most wanted, being one of my personal favourite 'mons and a main stay on my team in Ultra Sun. Plus, it feels like most people have been sleeping on Lycanroc as a character due to its competition in Decidueye and Mimikyu, so its nice to know there's others out there who have a similar opinion on the likeliness of our favourite stone canine.

Personally, I want to see Lycanroc's Dusk form, as its the one I have the most attachment to personally. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Day or Midnight forms in the game.

We got another one! Welcome.

Yeah, it's frustrating watching so much of the fandom be so dead set on who they think has a shot that they completely overlook someone. Doesn't rule us out, at least, especially since Greninja and Robin got slept on during Smash 4 speculation in similar circumstances.

 

[Hydra of Chaos]

I support, my most wanted Gen7 mon thats logically possible

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I would say I support as this is the only pokemon newcomer that fits in both uniqueness and design

 

[BluePikmin11]

Are you guys inclined to believe this tweet means something?:

Calling all Trainers! Do you know who this Pokémon is? pic.twitter.com/k3PDVjpy9w

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) July 26, 2018

People in Smash Ultimate Discussion are pointing out the Lycanroc tweet felt just as random as the Daisy tweet when Nintendo of America posted a Nintendo Power posted a short biography of Daisy. And it is kind of odd, considering that TPC are hardcore promoting Let's Go right now. Apparently the opportunity to obtain Dusk Lycanroc has disappeared too for the S/M games. NoA has no reason to do this action late in the game, unless its some kind of foreshadowing. What do you guys think?

 

[Delzethin]

Hey, feel free to talk about other stuff in here too. Seems like we can't rely on a steady stream of new Smash news, so why not talk about other stuff on your minds until we get another reveal?

I support, my most wanted Gen7 mon thats logically possible

I would say I support as this is the only pokemon newcomer that fits in both uniqueness and design

Welcome, both of you! Seems like we're racking up some pretty big numbers now.

 

[Cosmic77]

Are you guys inclined to believe this tweet means something?:

Calling all Trainers! Do you know who this Pokémon is? pic.twitter.com/k3PDVjpy9w

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) July 26, 2018

People in Smash Ultimate Discussion are pointing out the Lycanroc tweet felt just as random as the Daisy tweet when Nintendo of America posted a Nintendo Power posted a short biography of Daisy. And it is kind of odd, considering that TPC are hardcore promoting Let's Go right now. Apparently the opportunity to obtain Dusk Lycanroc has disappeared too for the S/M games. NoA has no reason to do this action late in the game, unless its some kind of foreshadowing. What do you guys think?

Could mean something, could mean nothing. I know a lot of Geno fans are banking on that SMRPG tweet being a sign of things to come, but I always thought that was a stretch. With that in mind, I'll have to be fair and say Nintendo is probably doing some generic promotion geared specifically towards US/UM and nothing else.

Still, it's nice to see Dusk getting some promotion. At the very least, we can see that Nintendo/Game Freak still considers Lycanroc to be a good candidate for a promotional Pokémon.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I looked on Twitter to see how much the NoA twitter posted about US/UM this year, and I found something interesting:

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from:@NintendoAmerica Pokemon&src=typd

Most of what NoA has promoted for US/UM has been mostly Special Pokemon Mystery Gifts and one single online PKMN tournament. Then there is this random trivia that was posted today. I am not getting my hopes up, but this is very eyebrow raising to say the least.

 

[RandomAce]

Are you guys inclined to believe this tweet means something?:

Calling all Trainers! Do you know who this Pokémon is? pic.twitter.com/k3PDVjpy9w

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) July 26, 2018

People in Smash Ultimate Discussion are pointing out the Lycanroc tweet felt just as random as the Daisy tweet when Nintendo of America posted a Nintendo Power posted a short biography of Daisy. And it is kind of odd, considering that TPC are hardcore promoting Let's Go right now. Apparently the opportunity to obtain Dusk Lycanroc has disappeared too for the S/M games. NoA has no reason to do this action late in the game, unless its some kind of foreshadowing. What do you guys think?

Yeah I was about to post about this.

It reminded about the Daisy post and look who got in?

But here is something. How much do you guys actually like Lycanroc for those who support him/her? Do you guys like any of the Lycanroc forms or do you support them because you just think they’re likely?

 

[PeridotGX]

Yeah I was about to post about this.

It reminded about the Daisy post and look who got in?

But here is something. How much do you guys actually like Lycanroc for those who support him/her? Do you guys like any of the Lycanroc forms or do you support them because you just think they’re likely?

He's my most expected Pokémon newcomer at this point. I would prefer Decidueye, but I wouldn't mind Lycanroc at all, and I quite like Midday and Dusk forms.

 

[Gengar84]

Midnight Lycanroc is my second favorite gen 7 Pokemon after Golisopod. Since I doubt Golisopod has much a chance, I'll gladly take any form of Lycanroc instead.

 

[Hydra of Chaos]

Midday is one of my favourite Gen 7 mons, only surpassed by Rockruff, and Dusk is also pretty cool

 

[RandomAce]

Well done! #PokemonUltraSunMoon are available exclusively on the Nintendo #3DS family of systems. Grab them today! https://t.co/yuRrfLs2us pic.twitter.com/nZD2YQ8N9n

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) July 26, 2018

Well, sh*t, Nintendo made a tweet about Dusk Form Lycanroc and an advertisement for buying USUM.

But why though? You can’t even catch it anymore. Unless if it was for Smash, or an announcement.

Anyways for me, Lycanroc is my favorite Gen 7 Pokémon, and my second favorite of all time (beaten by Sceptile). The Midday and especially Midnight forms are my favorites and I would want them to be in Smash. I do like Dusk, but not as much.

I would really just want to have a way to get all three forms playable in some way (like Midday and Midnight and a Dusk alt).

EDIT: I found Delzethin commented on the tweet. He knows something is up. I love how NOA is like great job, even though everyone just replied with memes.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Who knows? Maybe we will get a character reveal at EVO. Still, the fact Lycanroc Dusk is being used to promote USUM even though it is currently unobtainable is... interesting.

 

[Igglybuff4SmashU]

I support any new non gen one Pokémon is good with me

 

[Delzethin]

But here is something. How much do you guys actually like Lycanroc for those who support him/her? Do you guys like any of the Lycanroc forms or do you support them because you just think they’re likely?

Well...I suppose you could say this whole evolutionary line seemed like something special from the start. We actually caught a glimpse of a Rockruff facing away from the "camera" in an early trailer, and there was even fanart of people trying to guess what the full design was. Then we got an official reveal through Corocoro in June of 2016, and not only was it an appealing design, it was a Rock type!

And that was the first point where the gears started turning. We'd been discussing a potential alchemy motif already, what with Solgaleo's design being based on a certain symbol and potential thematic tie ins with the starters. Litten and Popplio fit fire and water in a map of the four classical elements, Rowlet fit for air (Which also explained why it was part Flying from the get go!), but we didn't have anything to embody earth. And then, suddenly we did. And Corocoro was hyping it up unusually much, talking about a "secret", even borrowing a Rockruff as an unofficial mascot for a while. That was the point that first had me thinking "Wait a minute, they're setting this thing up to evolve into this gen's Lucario archetype, aren't they?"

Not to say there weren't twists and turns and bumps in the road. When the first two Lycanroc forms were revealed, it was to...mixed reactions. An unusually low BST (despite Midday's super optimized statline) and narrow movepool didn't help matters either, as one reason Greninja took off eventually in Gen 6 was its sheer power in competitive play. This line I'd had an eye on for months was getting waved off, dismissed offhand by people who couldn't be bothered to look past their first impressions in ways uncomfortably similar to what I'd personally experienced in the past.

But then, things started turning around. Evidence for more forms cropped up in the Global Link. On the anime side, Ash had a Rockruff join up as his second Alolan party member, and it started getting an unusual amount of importance. Then we got word of a special reveal happening the first week of August 2017, on a date that coincided perfectly with a certain anime episode focused on Ash's Rockruff. Everything had aligned perfectly, and then...

...More mixed reactions. It hadn't helped that Dusk Lycanroc's reveal was a Delphox situation all over again: an interesting design on paper that left a sour first impression because everyone's first look at it was a lackluster ingame model. Once again, I started fearing the worst, as much as one can for a fictional character/species.

But then things started turning around again. An official Corocoro reveal gave us actually pretty good art, more combat capability via the skill Tough Claws, and even a signature Z-Move. Ash's now-Lycanroc kept racking up important roles, establishing itself as his ace for Alola after all. I even saw people start to change their minds on the design, as the popularity of all three forms started steadily rising to where they are now.

And so here we are, with a new Smash game on the horizon, positioned as a potential frontrunner that 90% of the community doesn't even realize is an option. It's left me with a veritable rollercoaster of emotions and anxieties...but the latter is nothing new for me, heh. I only hope this character I've essentially become a champion of can end up reaching that greatest of stages after all, and not be yet another example of someone or something cast out into the darkness for not fitting the bandwagon's expectations. But for now, at least, it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one who notices or cares.

Heh. Look at me, talking like some kind of Fire Emblem protagonist.

Well done! #PokemonUltraSunMoon are available exclusively on the Nintendo #3DS family of systems. Grab them today! https://t.co/yuRrfLs2us pic.twitter.com/nZD2YQ8N9n

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) July 26, 2018

Well, sh*t, Nintendo made a tweet about Dusk Form Lycanroc and an advertisement for buying USUM.

But why though? You can’t even catch it anymore. Unless if it was for Smash, or an announcement.

It's really hard to tell with this kind of thing. On one hand, Nintendo foreshadowing or spreading awareness to people outside the usual fandoms is plausible. On the other, we're dancing precariously on the edge of crackpot conspiracy territory and need to tread lightly. It might mean something, especially after that seemingly random Daisy tweet back in March that may or may not have been a tease itself, but we don't know enough yet to say for sure or not. I tweeted that reply more to spread awareness than anything--should get at least a few more people to actually consider Lycanroc for Ultimate that wouldn't have thought to look past the starters otherwise.

Still, though...what would they have to gain from suddenly advertising last year's Pokémon games on the nearly retired 3DS, rather than the new games coming to the Switch in a few months? Much less doing so with a character who cannot be obtained anymore without having someone breed you an extra? And it couldn't only be due to the anime, because neither tweet mentions it.


And before I forget:

I support any new non gen one Pokémon is good with me

Welcome! Seems like we keep racking up more supporters by the day.

 

[RandomAce]

You know what I find weird.

Although Dusk is the most popular in Japan. Over here in America, whenever I look up anything Lycanroc related, most of the time is it’s Mindight form.

I want at least all three forms to be playable in some way at least. Even if Dusk has a Midday alt, Midnight will be left out, which is something I don’t want for the abundance of Midnight Mycanroc fans, even Midday has a lot fans as well.

Just a thought.

 

[Cosmic77]

You know what I find weird.

Although Dusk is the most popular in Japan. Over here in America, whenever I look up anything Lycanroc related, most of the time is it’s Mindight form.

I want at least all three forms to be playable in some way at least. Even if Dusk has a Midday alt, Midnight will be left out, which is something I don’t want for the abundance of Midnight Mycanroc fans, even Midday has a lot fans as well.

Just a thought.

Sakurai could still make a Midnight-colored alt complete with red eyes and a Mohawk mane if he chose Midday or Dusk (Like Meta Knight's Galacta Knight alt). It might not be the same as a unique model, but it's better than leaving Midnight out entirely.

 

[RandomAce]

Sakurai could still make a Midnight-colored alt complete with red eyes and a Mohawk mane if he chose Midday or Dusk (Like Meta Knight's Galacta Knight alt). It might not be the same as a unique model, but it's better than leaving Midnight out entirely.

Still though... it’s just not the same.

I probably shouldn’t ask for too much since I did state my opinion, but I would love it if Sakurai explores everything about Lycanroc possible. It’s something about multiple forms that makes Lycanroc unique than just one form, in my opinion.

Call me restless, but I would restlessly support for all forms to be playable no matter what.