Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Dashing Cobras]

Don't give up yet people!

Vergeben has had a shaky track record when it comes to his leaks, and considering how he missed Daisy and the other returning veterans for E3, his words SHOULD NOT be taken as 100% legitimate.

I think we all need to take a step back, breathe a bit and try our best from now until December to convince other speculators the Lycanroc is still a viable newcomer despite what Verg claimed. Its not over until we get an official reveal, so stay strong my friends!

 

[AlphaSSB]

Want to preface by saying I don't believe in Vergeben. He's an attention seeker with a spotty reputation, whose words shouldn't be taken as Gospel. But to entertain the idea, and trust me this is a stretch... get out your tinfoil hats.

What if, like what Delzethin suggested, Lycanroc Dusk is the Robin of Smash Ultimate.

Let's assume Vergeben's info is similar to that of the Gematsu leak, where Gematsu's info was possibly based off old information that was changed during development. To refresh your memory, the Gematsu leak claimed that Chrom was going to be in Smash 3DS/Wii U. Chrom was initially selected, but was rejected during the conceptualization phase of development since he was too similar to Marth and Ike. As such, plans changed, and Chrom was swapped out for Robin.

Say Sakurai set aside a blank spot for a new Pokemon to be chosen and worked on later in development. He gets some concept art from the Pokemon Company, and looks through them. Say he turns down Decidueye, Mimikyu, and the two Lycanrocs, then decides to go with Incineroar for the time being. This would be Vergeben's information. No Decidueye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc, but instead Incineroar.

During Incineroar's conceptualization, the Pokemon Company asked if Sakurai had chosen a Pokemon for Smash Ultimate yet. Upon hearing that Incineroar is only in the early concept phase, the Pokemon Company sends Sakurai one more piece of concept art, this time, for Lycanroc Dusk. The Pokemon Company explains that they plan on pushing this one hard in the show and the games, and even go as far as to ask if Sakurai could add Lycanroc Dusk. Upon being asked, Sakurai complies, and Incineroar is swapped out for Lycanroc Dusk.

Like it's a stretch, but if Vergeben's info happens to be legitimate, this could be a factor to consider. Even in the case that Vergeben is full of ****, which I believe he is, this situation could technically apply to any of the supposed originally picked Pokemon. Otherwise, it's a interesting theory to have fun with for the time being.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's really encouraging to see everyone not giving up on Lycanroc. Gematsu was treated like gospel until Robin came around. Yes, Vergeben has gotten a lot of things correct, but he isn't perfect.

Our rock wolf is still in the running until December 7th.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Gematsu had all the E3 characters there, with only a few amount of newcomers unmentioned and only Chorus Kids and Chrom as big missers and even that leak got scale-tipped by Robin.
Now this Vergeben guy comes around, already fails to leak the most important piece of info, which is obviously Daisy, didn't even mention "Everyone is Here" and has barely any of his claims confirmed with Simon being MIA. And yet y'all up in arms because of an off-hand comment he made about Smash fans that won't get off his tail.

This is all the "leakbusting" from me. I'd rather let this weak rip-off be deconfirmed by waiting for any substantial info aside from his half-guessed E3 than to let this guy decide speculation for me.

.

Not gonna lie, I'm worried. I've gained such a reputation of reading between the lines, noticing details that others overlook or brush off. But if it turns out I was dead wrong the entire time, then what am I? Little more than a village idiot spouting nonsense in the town square, who passerby tune out and then make fun of once they're out of earshot. Heh...seems like no matter what I do, I just can't escape that fate.

But...that fate isn't yet etched in stone this time.

You're extremely capable to lead this pack and, even if you have a ridiculous amount of flair for the dramatic, you're one of the most steadfast speculators and deep-digging rockstars on the scene. If there's anyone who can control the beserk state of a fandom, it's you
You're like Dusk himself in a way. Cool, unwavered and calculated in the field, but ruthless and sometimes even cocky if you sense something unjust in your territory. You take pride in this role, which is great to see, but it tends to turn into sheer bloodlust for the misinformation enemy and it can cloud your judgement.
If Lycanroc isn't the chosen Pokémon this time, your core message of taking a second guess at the community's gut feeling and patterns still came through to a great amount of people. You're still a great digger and even if you tend to throw some mud to an invisible bogeyman of the "common speculator", you did manage to get some Baskerville Hounds to learn the science of deduction, to not only see, but to observe as well.

...

Fine, I like your flair for the dramatic-style, okay?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm not giving up on lycanroc

Well I'm assuming vergeben is getting good info on smash but doesn't necessary mean it's true
(I do give him credit for informing as soon as possible if he's wrong)

I mean decidueye not making it I believe I mean I figured this out based of which Pokémon are advertised the most is pretty much the only thing I see decidueye advertised in is pokken

Lycanroc and incinoroar are the most advertised so logically it's one of them

But really the gen 7 rep can be any Pokémon maybe game freak game them a legendary and not a starter like necrozma

So I still think the most likely is either lycanroc or inciniroar

 

[Delzethin]

Well...I'm glad you're all still here. Nice to know I'm not the only one willing to hang on, especially when we've had so many curveballs happen in the past. There're always options that we may not be aware of, and hopefully that ends up in our favor this time.

Welcome to our new folks, as well! Igglybuff4SmashU , @Kremling Man, ThunderOverload , noise r us , and SupriceSupplies , it's nice to have you. The supporter list should be up to date now.

And as an added bonus: the splash art from the new Challenger Approaching video!

 

[Deleted member]

Thank you for the warm welcome don't give up yet, Delzethin I appreciate and am glad, to be here supporting Lycanroc.

 

[ThatRedPlumber]

After seeing your safe roster video and your recent challenger approaching, I’m definitely gunning for Lycanroc Dusk over Decidueye now. I honestly think it’s incredibly likely, despite what Verg’s sources are saying.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Vergeben made another comment on this gen 7 thing

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76866145/906296074

His sources are working on trying to find the winner for the new Pokémon slot

 

[Delzethin]

Vergeben made another comment on this gen 7 thing

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76866145/906296074

His sources are working on trying to find the winner for the new Pokémon slot

So from what it seems, he's saying that only one source has claimed to know who the newcomer is, while others have only given deconfirmations (with most only saying Decidueye isn't playable)?

Well, I don't know the details of how insider information usually spreads or how many sources there usually are, but we should look into the details here. Which sources could be reliable? Which could be inaccurate or even fake? He's made mistakes with not vetting his sources in the past, and we need to figure out if something similar could be happening here.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So from what it seems, he's saying that only one source has claimed to know who the newcomer is, while others have only given deconfirmations (with most only saying Decidueye isn't playable)?

Well, I don't know the details of how insider information usually spreads or how many sources there usually are, but we should look into the details here. Which sources could be reliable? Which could be inaccurate or even fake? He's made mistakes with not vetting his sources in the past, and we need to figure out if something similar could be happening here.

Yep I agree

The decidueye not playable part may be the only legit part of this (ofcoarse it's a safe bet since compared to are lycanroc is more popular and advertised and pushed more than decidueye)

 

[SvartWolf]

uhmmm... what are the chances that we get Rockruff instead? Bar anime, that dude have the same ammount of promotion.

 

[AlphaSSB]

To me it sounds like he isn't confident in his sources and is starting to backtrack on his claims.

I wouldn't put too much into him having 'multiple sources' all deconfirming Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu. Especially Decidueye. Back in the Smash 3DS/Wii U DLC period, there was a point where multiple sources claimed to know who the next DLC characters were. These sources shared their info with others, and eventually, there became this large collective of people who knew of the next DLC characters. Content creators, streamers, artists, etc. They were all very confident about it, too.

Turns out, they were all wrong. All it took was one lie/one piece of false information to form a bandwagon for 'sources' to become a part of. It came from 'X', whose trusted, so if I say I know about it, I'll be trusted too, right? Then that lie began to spread like a wildfire, even though everyone who was in on it felt super confident.

What I'm saying is Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu being deconfirmed could be a piece of false information making the rounds, or could be a lie made to stir up drama. Vergeben talked about it of course, since he wants the attention. Then other people claim to know about it too, wanting reputation. As far as I'm concerned, this could very well be false information or a blatant lie. For all we know, Vergeben's 'sources' could just be another lie should this not pan out.

As such, I firmly still believe Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu are all still in the running.

 

[Cosmic77]

His sources are trying to figure out who the newcomer is, but they can still disconfirm Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc?

That doesn't even make sense. In order for them to disconfirm a character, they would have to either (1) see the Pokemon in a form outside of playable, or (2) know who the newcomer is.

Verge isn't making any sense. He admitted that he has three sources for his Smash material. He's saying two of those sources can disconfirm the three popular picks, but only one has heard of the actual newcomer?

 

[Antimatter042]

The impression I get of Vergeben is that even when he has a kernel of truth in his leaks, the more he adds on the shakier it becomes. I honestly don't think he has any correct Pokemon info and I feel pretty confident that our newcomer will be either Lycanroc or Incineroar in spite of what he's said about the former. I've not posted in this thread before but I've happily supported Dusk Lycanroc as the best possible new Pokemon rep for a while now, probably my 3rd most wanted newcomer at the moment.

 

[BluePikmin11]

His sources are trying to figure out who the newcomer is, but they can still disconfirm Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc?

That doesn't even make sense. In order for them to disconfirm a character, they would have to either (1) see the Pokemon in a form outside of playable, or (2) know who the newcomer is.

Verge isn't making any sense. He admitted that he has three sources for his Smash material. He's saying two of those sources can disconfirm the three popular picks, but only one has heard of the actual newcomer?

Maybe the sources saw Pokeball summons or saw them as background Pokemon in a new Pokemon stage. Just a thought to think about. But we do not really know what roles the sources have related to the development of Smash Ultimate though.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Maybe the sources saw Pokeball summons or saw them as background Pokemon in a new Pokemon stage. Just a thought to think about. But we do not really know what roles the sources have related to the development of Smash Ultimate though.

If this were to be the case, they could be jumping to conclusions based off that.

Remember when many thought Toon Link was deconfirmed due to him appearing in the background of the Spirit Tracks stage? Only he was playable, and wouldn't appear on the stage if he was in the match. The same could happen with Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu if any of them were seen in the background. Plus, even if any of them are in the background of a stage, it's not like they are named characters that there are only one of. I don't see much issue with a Lycanroc being in the background, while watching another Lycanroc fight.

Now, if Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu were seen as Poke Ball summons, that's another thing. Although I'd be very surprised if Decidueye and Lycanroc were Pokeball summons instead of Rowlet and Rockruff, respectively. Speaking of which, they could've seen Rowlet and Rockruff as Poke Ball summons, and just jumped to the conclusion that their evolved forms wouldn't be playable. Which, granted, would be a dumb conclusion to jump to since Alolan Raichu is a Poke Ball summon.

 

[Antimatter042]

If this were to be the case, they could be jumping to conclusions based off that.

Remember when many thought Toon Link was deconfirmed due to him appearing in the background of the Spirit Tracks stage? Only he was playable, and wouldn't appear on the stage if he was in the match. The same could happen with Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu if any of them were seen in the background. Plus, even if any of them are in the background of a stage, it's not like they are named characters that there are only one of. I don't see much issue with a Lycanroc being in the background, while watching another Lycanroc fight.

Now, if Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu were seen as Poke Ball summons, that's another thing. Although I'd be very surprised if Decidueye and Lycanroc were Pokeball summons instead of Rowlet and Rockruff, respectively. Speaking of which, they could've seen Rowlet and Rockruff as Poke Ball summons, and just jumped to the conclusion that their evolved forms wouldn't be playable. Which, granted, would be a dumb conclusion to jump to since Alolan Raichu is a Poke Ball summon.

Additionally, it may be unlikely, but it is possible that one of Lycanroc's forms is playable and another is a Poke Ball summon, which potentially tricked some leakers. It may be clunky, but we don't have a precedent to say it's impossible, since we've never had a Pokemon with statistically distinct form differences playable before.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Additionally, it may be unlikely, but it is possible that one of Lycanroc's forms is playable and another is a Poke Ball summon, which potentially tricked some leakers. It may be clunky, but we don't have a precedent to say it's impossible, since we've never had a Pokemon with statistically distinct form differences playable before.

That's definitely possible, too.

Though if we're to see Midday and Midnight in the game in some capacity, I'd love to see them both join Dusk for its Final Smash. Imagine all three Lycanrocs using Splintered Stormshards together at the same time.

Then, just have a basic light brown alt for Dusk referencing Midday, and a red alt referencing Midnight. Then a dark grey and black alt referencing Mightyena because I'm a fan of dark palettes.

 

[Desdar300]

uhmmm... what are the chances that we get Rockruff instead? Bar anime, that dude have the same ammount of promotion.

Considering how they rushed it to evolve into Lycanroc in the show it's unlikely

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Additionally, it may be unlikely, but it is possible that one of Lycanroc's forms is playable and another is a Poke Ball summon, which potentially tricked some leakers. It may be clunky, but we don't have a precedent to say it's impossible, since we've never had a Pokemon with statistically distinct form differences playable before.

brilliant that could be what saves us

Midday or dusk for pokeball and midnight form for playable

That could be a potential mistake they made

 

[Delzethin]

Well then. Looks like we may not have to wait much longer to see what fate has in store for us.

Now if I can just...stop stressing out...

To me it sounds like he isn't confident in his sources and is starting to backtrack on his claims.

I wouldn't put too much into him having 'multiple sources' all deconfirming Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu. Especially Decidueye. Back in the Smash 3DS/Wii U DLC period, there was a point where multiple sources claimed to know who the next DLC characters were. These sources shared their info with others, and eventually, there became this large collective of people who knew of the next DLC characters. Content creators, streamers, artists, etc. They were all very confident about it, too.

Turns out, they were all wrong. All it took was one lie/one piece of false information to form a bandwagon for 'sources' to become a part of. It came from 'X', whose trusted, so if I say I know about it, I'll be trusted too, right? Then that lie began to spread like a wildfire, even though everyone who was in on it felt super confident.

What I'm saying is Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu being deconfirmed could be a piece of false information making the rounds, or could be a lie made to stir up drama. Vergeben talked about it of course, since he wants the attention. Then other people claim to know about it too, wanting reputation. As far as I'm concerned, this could very well be false information or a blatant lie. For all we know, Vergeben's 'sources' could just be another lie should this not pan out.

As such, I firmly still believe Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu are all still in the running.

For what it's worth...anyone remember the rumors that circulated in summer 2015? There were insiders hearing rumblings about Shovel Knight getting in as DLC, only for said rumors to be false. Well, it turned out that the source of the rumor had seen a prototype of Shovel Knight's amiibo, and jumped to conclusions and assumed it must've been for Smash. An example of how even trusted insiders can end up mistaken, how sometimes their sources are the cause for the discrepancy, and proof that such a thing has happened within the context of Smash before.

Whether that's the case this time...remains to be seen. For now, we should keep scrutinizing this.

His sources are trying to figure out who the newcomer is, but they can still disconfirm Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc?

That doesn't even make sense. In order for them to disconfirm a character, they would have to either (1) see the Pokemon in a form outside of playable, or (2) know who the newcomer is.

Verge isn't making any sense. He admitted that he has three sources for his Smash material. He's saying two of those sources can disconfirm the three popular picks, but only one has heard of the actual newcomer?

Maybe the sources saw Pokeball summons or saw them as background Pokemon in a new Pokemon stage. Just a thought to think about. But we do not really know what roles the sources have related to the development of Smash Ultimate though.

That's the thing: What circumstances would cause a source to believe they can deconfirm a few characters without knowing who's actually getting in? We need to look into this, figure out what they think they saw, and whether it's legitimate or whether they jumped to conclusions.

For example: What if they saw renders for trophies? Could it be a situation where they saw one for Midday or Midnight, called it a day, and overlooked the possibilty of Dusk still being playable? After all, it'd only make sense that if one form was on the roster, the other two would have trophies.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Or they saw Incineroar playable and don't take into account the possibility of two Poké newcomers.

 

[ThatRedPlumber]

You can count me in a

Well then. Looks like we may not have to wait much longer to see what fate has in store for us.

Now if I can just...stop stressing out...


For what it's worth...anyone remember the rumors that circulated in summer 2015? There were insiders hearing rumblings about Shovel Knight getting in as DLC, only for said rumors to be false. Well, it turned out that the source of the rumor had seen a prototype of Shovel Knight's amiibo, and jumped to conclusions and assumed it must've been for Smash. An example of how even trusted insiders can end up mistaken, how sometimes their sources are the cause for the discrepancy, and proof that such a thing has happened within the context of Smash before.

Whether that's the case this time...remains to be seen. For now, we should keep scrutinizing this.



That's the thing: What circumstances would cause a source to believe they can deconfirm a few characters without knowing who's actually getting in? We need to look into this, figure out what they think they saw, and whether it's legitimate or whether they jumped to conclusions.

For example: What if they saw renders for trophies? Could it be a situation where they saw one for Midday or Midnight, called it a day, and overlooked the possibilty of Dusk still being playable? After all, it'd only make sense that if one form was on the roster, the other two would have trophies.

You can count me in here and now as a Lycanroc supporter Del. Let us ride this hype train all the way into the sun!

 

[RandomAce]

Gematsu had all the E3 characters there, with only a few amount of newcomers unmentioned and only Chorus Kids and Chrom as big missers and even that leak got scale-tipped by Robin.
Now this Vergeben guy comes around, already fails to leak the most important piece of info, which is obviously Daisy, didn't even mention "Everyone is Here" and has barely any of his claims confirmed with Simon being MIA. And yet y'all up in arms because of an off-hand comment he made about Smash fans that won't get off his tail.

This is all the "leakbusting" from me. I'd rather let this weak rip-off be deconfirmed by waiting for any substantial info aside from his half-guessed E3 than to let this guy decide speculation for me.



You're extremely capable to lead this pack and, even if you have a ridiculous amount of flair for the dramatic, you're one of the most steadfast speculators and deep-digging rockstars on the scene. If there's anyone who can control the beserk state of a fandom, it's you
You're like Dusk himself in a way. Cool, unwavered and calculated in the field, but ruthless and sometimes even cocky if you sense something unjust in your territory. You take pride in this role, which is great to see, but it tends to turn into sheer bloodlust for the misinformation enemy and it can cloud your judgement.
If Lycanroc isn't the chosen Pokémon this time, your core message of taking a second guess at the community's gut feeling and patterns still came through to a great amount of people. You're still a great digger and even if you tend to throw some mud to an invisible bogeyman of the "common speculator", you did manage to get some Baskerville Hounds to learn the science of deduction, to not only see, but to observe as well.

...

Fine, I like your flair for the dramatic-style, okay?

I never imagined someone comparing Delzethin to an actual Lycanroc.

To be honest there re so many ways to make Lycanroc unique which is why I still support him. Heck, I even support them hard along with Isaac, who’s another earth based user, because they’re very different from each other.

There’s just a lot of things to make Lycanroc stand out from the roster.

A full earth based fighter? No one in Smash does anything related to rock, even Isaac is only a half earth user, and probably would use plant based moves and his iconic psynergy moves and sword along as well.

A quadruple fighter? We have Ivysaur and Duck Hunt, but Midday and Dusk can easily segment themselves apart from the cast.

A stance fighter? If Sakurai chooses to use it’s multiple forms, only Pokémon Trainer does this, and his/her Pokémon have completely different movests. A stance changing fighter between Midday and Midnight is something we’ve never seen in Smash yet.

A boost charge mechanic? If Sakurai chooses to use it’s Dusk form, it has a signature boost stat from the anime that allows it to increase it’s power for a short period of time in certain periods by using Midnight’s fighting spirit. Really, a mechanic like this is really unique to it and can easily make it stand out.

After what Delzethin said recently, it does feel like another Chrom situation where they found a character planned early on, but weren’t aware of any changes that could’ve occurred during the process (and Vergeben jumped it on it). Maybe Sakurai looked at Incineroar first to be the newcomer but then when he saw Lycanroc and it’s possibilities, he decided that to choose them instead for being more unique, but the leakers weren’t aware of the changes. This is what happened when Chrom when he was first heavily brought up, however Sakurai ended up switching to Robin because he found him to be more unique, but the leakers weren’t aware of the changes and eventually everyone was shocked.

Well those are my thoughts, they could’ve heard or saw that the others were deconfirmed like let’s say they saw that someone was originally selected and planned for the game, but Sakurai ended up changing his mind shortly afterward and they weren’t aware of it. Hopefully that’s the case.

Let’s hope that in 3 Days this ends up answered once and for all (and in our favor).

(I also don’t like the idea of Midday and Midnight Lycanroc being disconfirmed, a duo moveset is much more interesting in my eyes).

 

[Questionmark222]

If our favorite wolf (outside of Wolf O'Donnell for me, of course) gets confirmed on Wednesday, I won't be able to celebrate because my plane lands in Toronto right after the scheduled time for the direct... I guess I'll just watch it at the airport since my flight connects all the way to Arizona, from where I won't be able to communicate up until the 14th... so if I pop up a week later to celebrate don't mind me...

 

[Delzethin]

One more thing I think we should look into for the time being:

For the mountain of fake leaks out there, I've seen several examples in the past of correct (or mostly correct) stuff that flew under the radar for weeks or even months because they weren't telling people what they expected. A notable case happened back in April, where someone correctly leaked a bunch of into about Let's Go a month and a half before anyone started taking it seriously.

With that in mind...does anyone have the means to delve through leak archives and find every example possible of potential leaks that have Lycanroc listed? If nothing occurs in the Smash Direct to point for or against us, we could compare what gets revealed there to any of our potential leaks and see if anything sticks out. It'd give us more of a leg to stand on should things break the right way.

 

[Opossum]

One more thing I think we should look into for the time being:

For the mountain of fake leaks out there, I've seen several examples in the past of correct (or mostly correct) stuff that flew under the radar for weeks or even months because they weren't telling people what they expected. A notable case happened back in April, where someone correctly leaked a bunch of into about Let's Go a month and a half before anyone started taking it seriously.

With that in mind...does anyone have the means to delve through leak archives and find every example possible of potential leaks that have Lycanroc listed? If nothing occurs in the Smash Direct to point for or against us, we could compare what gets revealed there to any of our potential leaks and see if anything sticks out. It'd give us more of a leg to stand on should things break the right way.

If you head over to fireden and use it to search /v/, you can further search to only include posts containing Lycanroc. That's generally what I do when snooping around for 4chan leaks.

 

[Garteam]

No matter what happens on Wednesday, it's been an honour to serve on this ship. The passion everyone here has for Lycanroc is always really awesome to see. I'm willing to root for this multi-formed wolf until I see him disconfirmed with my own two eyes. Who knows, we may even get a nice little surprise on Wednesday. Vergeben has never been 100% accurate, even leaks for games where he has a good track record sometimes have flaws in them (Raditz and Zarbon say hi).

Also, congrats on your Lycanroc video getting to the front page of Smashboards, Delzethin! It's easy to tell there's a ton of effort in all your videos and it's great to see them spread to a larger audience.

 

[Deleted member]

Whatever happens Wednesday, Lycanroc or not I am in the rock wolf's corner. Let's hope it's there. If not hope is not lost.

 

[MattX20]

I prefer Decidueye as the potential Gen 7 rep because of his ghostly archer aesthetic and moveset potential. But if I had to name a second best pick, Lycanroc could be a good one, and Delzethin's videos on the Smash newcomer concepts have me definitely rooting for Elma and Bandana Waddle Dee on top of characters like Geno, Decidueye, and K. Rool. Here's hoping the Direct will reveal whomever the new Pokemon rep may be.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Though I do support Isaac already, after watching both of Delzethin's videos for moveset concepts, it's clear to me that both characters are incredibly unique and can satisfy different niches of the critically underused Earth element in Smash. Even if the Dusk form came too late for the project plan, the base character will still be a solid inclusion if Sakurai had enough info back in 2015 to make a moveset for it.

I'd like to be added as a supporter.

 

[Delzethin]

Okay, so I browsed through the archives Opossum mentioned last night. Most of the posts mentioning Lycanroc was typical 4chan fare, but three rumors in particular stood out as being worth keeping an eye on. Keep in mind, this isn't all that could be out there--if you remember, the infamous Sun & Moon Chinese leak, the one that first mentioned Rockruff having a werewolf evolution, didn't come from any of the usual sites.

Spoiler: Rumor 1

As you can see, this is not a "safe" list in the slightest. I'm not very confident personally about Shovel Knight or K. Rool, and "Poké Floats 2" with 'mons from Gens 3-7 fees more like a fan wish than something to expect, but we've said similar stuff about leaks in the past that ended up legitimate. Remember how a Sun & Moon one that claimed certain older 'mons were getting new forms felt like an eye roller until Alolan Forms turned out to actually be a thing? That particular leak was also the first to claim Rockruff's evolution had more than one form, if you recall.

And while Isabelle is being rumored and is not mentioned here, leaks are rarely, if ever, comprehensive. Her absence from this one would not instantly debunk it if she were to be confirmed.

Now, onto the next rumor that stood out:

Spoiler: Rumor 2

This one is much safer than the first. Other than Lycanroc, the only thing going against the grain is the claim that Rex wasn't too late to get into the base roster. The emphasis on stages here makes it tricky to pin down: any individual stage wouldn't be a point in its favor (not like Delfino Plaza wasn't going to be back), but if it nails several and/or doesn't miss any, it'll be worth keeping an eye on.

Yes, this rumor was off the mark about a newcomer reveal in July, but we've had examples in the past of leaks that were mostly correct but got a few smaller things wrong. The same SuMo leak that was right about Alolan Forms and multiple Lycanroc forms also claimed a certain new 'mon existed: a cat-based line that was pure Normal type usually, but when bred with another 'mon, the child would inherit the father's primary type as its secondary type. As we know now, this "Mendel cat" doesn't exist, and yet most of that leak was still on the mark. Always keep in mind that these things can have a mix of legitimate and illegitimate sources!

But this final rumor is a lot bolder than the previous two:

Spoiler: Rumor 3

(OP makes several more posts in the thread, so rather than have six or seven different images, the thread is here: https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/423393324 )

Much more here than with the previous two, including stuff that could easily be disproven. Banjo & Kazooie in particular is super risky, in my opinion, as well as the claim that Dixie is merely an echo fighter.

But the biggest red flag here is some very bold claims about the echo fighters, stuff that--as it seems--would not fall into what currently seems to qualify as an echo. This itself could bring this entire rumor crashing down...or it may just be another slip up amidst mostly correct information. It's too early to say for sure.


So, am I trying to say we should believe any of these? Not yet, far from it. What I do want to say is that in the event that the Smash Direct doesn't confirm nor deconfirm us, we can take what is revealed and compare it to these rumors to see if any of them have become more valid.

These are three potential win conditions, so to speak. So, keep an eye on them.


Also, welcome to ThatRedPlumber and T ThoughtfulWanderer !

 

[MattX20]

Okay, so I browsed through the archives Opossum mentioned last night. Most of the posts mentioning Lycanroc was typical 4chan fare, but three rumors in particular stood out as being worth keeping an eye on. Keep in mind, this isn't all that could be out there--if you remember, the infamous Sun & Moon Chinese leak, the one that first mentioned Rockruff having a werewolf evolution, didn't come from any of the usual sites.

Spoiler: Rumor 1

View attachment 155961

As you can see, this is not a "safe" list in the slightest. I'm not very confident personally about Shovel Knight or K. Rool, and "Poké Floats 2" with 'mons from Gens 3-7 fees more like a fan wish than something to expect, but we've said similar stuff about leaks in the past that ended up legitimate. Remember how a Sun & Moon one that claimed certain older 'mons were getting new forms felt like an eye roller until Alolan Forms turned out to actually be a thing? That particular leak was also the first to claim Rockruff's evolution had more than one form, if you recall.

And while Isabelle is being rumored and is not mentioned here, leaks are rarely, if ever, comprehensive. Her absence from this one would not instantly debunk it if she were to be confirmed.

Now, onto the next rumor that stood out:

Spoiler: Rumor 2

View attachment 155962

View attachment 155963

This one is much safer than the first. Other than Lycanroc, the only thing going against the grain is the claim that Rex wasn't too late to get into the base roster. The emphasis on stages here makes it tricky to pin down: any individual stage wouldn't be a point in its favor (not like Delfino Plaza wasn't going to be back), but if it nails several and/or doesn't miss any, it'll be worth keeping an eye on.

Yes, this rumor was off the mark about a newcomer reveal in July, but we've had examples in the past of leaks that were mostly correct but got a few smaller things wrong. The same SuMo leak that was right about Alolan Forms and multiple Lycanroc forms also claimed a certain new 'mon existed: a cat-based line that was pure Normal type usually, but when bred with another 'mon, the child would inherit the father's primary type as its secondary type. As we know now, this "Mendel cat" doesn't exist, and yet most of that leak was still on the mark. Always keep in mind that these things can have a mix of legitimate and illegitimate sources!

But this final rumor is a lot bolder than the previous two:

Spoiler: Rumor 3

View attachment 155967

(OP makes several more posts in the thread, so rather than have six or seven different images, the thread is here: https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/423393324 )

Much more here than with the previous two, including stuff that could easily be disproven. Banjo & Kazooie in particular is super risky, in my opinion, as well as the claim that Dixie is merely an echo fighter.

But the biggest red flag here is some very bold claims about the echo fighters, stuff that--as it seems--would not fall into what currently seems to qualify as an echo. This itself could bring this entire rumor crashing down...or it may just be another slip up amidst mostly correct information. It's too early to say for sure.


So, am I trying to say we should believe any of these? Not yet, far from it. What I do want to say is that in the event that the Smash Direct doesn't confirm nor deconfirm us, we can take what is revealed and compare it to these rumors to see if any of them have become more valid.

These are three potential win conditions, so to speak. So, keep an eye on them.


Also, welcome to ThatRedPlumber and T ThoughtfulWanderer !

Interesting observations. Personally, I'm convinced that we're probably not getting Simon Belmont for the base roster at this point and the only character owned by a third party that likely will end up in the base roster based on Sakurai's comments is Geno from Super Mario RPG.

 

[Deleted member]

Lycanroc or some Pokemon popping up Wednesday hopefully.

 

[RandomAce]

Alright so since we’re a day (well almost) off from the Smash Ultimate Direct, let’s do a questionnaire about this pack’s thoughts on Lycanroc right now.

1. How confident are you in Lycanroc being our newcomer and them being revealed in the direct?

2. How much would play Lycanroc if they got in Smash?

3. Which Lycanroc form is your favorite? (I like all of them, but you know my favorite. :D)

4. How much did you use Lycanroc in Pokémon SM or USUM? :D
———————————————————

Aside from that, after that Vergeben blow, I’ve been more weary than ever about Incineroar being our newcomer. I don’t like the idea of Incineroar getting in Smash since A) I don’t like it’s design that much, and B) He reuses Firey and Grappler-ask tropes in Smash. However, I still feel confident about Lycanroc.

 

[Garteam]

Alright so since we’re a day (well almost) off from the Smash Ultimate Direct, let’s do a questionnaire about this pack’s thoughts on Lycanroc right now.

1. How confident are you in Lycanroc being our newcomer and them being revealed in the direct?

2. How much would play Lycanroc if they got in Smash?

3. Which Lycanroc form is your favorite? (I like all of them, but you know my favorite. :D)

4. How much did you use Lycanroc in Pokémon SM or USUM? :D
———————————————————

Aside from that, after that Vergeben blow, I’ve been more weary than ever about Incineroar being our newcomer. I don’t like the idea of Incineroar getting in Smash since A) I don’t like it’s design that much, and B) He reuses Firey and Grappler-ask tropes in Smash. However, I still feel confident about Lycanroc.

1. I'm still fairly confident about Lycanroc being the Pokemon newcomer. I have to admit, Vergeben makes me a bit iffy though... that being said, he has been wrong in the past, so I'm still holding out hope. I don't think Lycanroc will be revealed at tomorrow's direct though, I'm thinking it will either be Bandana Dee or Simon at this point. I do think some of Lycanroc's competition (Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu) may be deconfirmed as Pokeball Pokemon, helping Lycanroc's chances.

2. Honestly, I'd just like to see Lycanroc playable at all! I really like the idea of a bait-and-punish play style that Delzethin brought up in his video. The only thing I NEED in Lycanroc's moveset is stealth rock, it's too much fun to ignore.

3. Dusk is my favourite all-around. It has a really cool design and its the form I have the most connection to personally.

4. I didn't use a Lycanroc in Sun or Moon, but Dusk Lycanroc was on my team for Ultra Sun! At first I thought he would be filler, but he was probably the best 'mon on my team after Hawlucha.

 

[Cosmic77]

Alright so since we’re a day (well almost) off from the Smash Ultimate Direct, let’s do a questionnaire about this pack’s thoughts on Lycanroc right now.

1. How confident are you in Lycanroc being our newcomer and them being revealed in the direct?

2. How much would play Lycanroc if they got in Smash?

3. Which Lycanroc form is your favorite? (I like all of them, but you know my favorite. :D)

4. How much did you use Lycanroc in Pokémon SM or USUM? :D
———————————————————

Aside from that, after that Vergeben blow, I’ve been more weary than ever about Incineroar being our newcomer. I don’t like the idea of Incineroar getting in Smash since A) I don’t like it’s design that much, and B) He reuses Firey and Grappler-ask tropes in Smash. However, I still feel confident about Lycanroc.

1. More confident than any other Pokemon at the moment. However, just like any other Pokemon, Lycanroc has a lot of competition. I'm acknowledging the other choices, so I can't say say I'd give him anything more than 50% chance.

2. I'd have to see how he would play, but I'd like to think I'd at least try to pick him up. He was one of my most-wanted newcomers after all.

3. I can find something good in all of them. Not really sure if I have a favorite.

4. I used him in both games, but that was mainly because I liked his design. That's not to say he wasn't one of the best Pokemon in my team though.

 

[PeridotGX]

Alright so since we’re a day (well almost) off from the Smash Ultimate Direct, let’s do a questionnaire about this pack’s thoughts on Lycanroc right now.

1. How confident are you in Lycanroc being our newcomer and them being revealed in the direct?

2. How much would play Lycanroc if they got in Smash?

3. Which Lycanroc form is your favorite? (I like all of them, but you know my favorite. :D)

4. How much did you use Lycanroc in Pokémon SM or USUM? :D
———————————————————

Aside from that, after that Vergeben blow, I’ve been more weary than ever about Incineroar being our newcomer. I don’t like the idea of Incineroar getting in Smash since A) I don’t like it’s design that much, and B) He reuses Firey and Grappler-ask tropes in Smash. However, I still feel confident about Lycanroc.

1. I think he's the most likely to be the Pokémon newcomer, assuming Vergeben isn't fully accurate. But honestly, I think a Pokémon newcomer wont be revealed until closer to release, probably in October in a similar way to Robin.

2. Probably a bit, but not to a mainable level. There are only a few characters I can't play at all (Sheik, Spacies) and I doubt Lycanroc would play like them. But I already have to many mains in 4 and I want to pick up Inkling and Squirtle.

3. Midday and Dusk are basically tied. I dislike midnight.

4. Honestly, not at all. In Sun I didn't have one on my team, and in USUM I couldn't (I had a little gimmick there where I had to use one Pokémon I'd used in my 6 previous Pokémon games.

 

[Questionmark222]

Alright so since we’re a day (well almost) off from the Smash Ultimate Direct, let’s do a questionnaire about this pack’s thoughts on Lycanroc right now.

1. How confident are you in Lycanroc being our newcomer and them being revealed in the direct?

2. How much would play Lycanroc if they got in Smash?

3. Which Lycanroc form is your favorite? (I like all of them, but you know my favorite. :D)

4. How much did you use Lycanroc in Pokémon SM or USUM? :D
———————————————————

Aside from that, after that Vergeben blow, I’ve been more weary than ever about Incineroar being our newcomer. I don’t like the idea of Incineroar getting in Smash since A) I don’t like it’s design that much, and B) He reuses Firey and Grappler-ask tropes in Smash. However, I still feel confident about Lycanroc.

1. Not taking any leaks into account, I think he's the most likely. He/it has the most unique design and potential fighter archetype out of all standout Pokémon candidates from Gen 7. Not to mention his major marketing push in the games, the anime, the TCG, as well as several other forms of merchandise.

2. A bait-and-punish style character (like Delzethin suggested would definitely make me pick him/it up as a secondary day-one, but probably not to the point of maining him, because nobody will ever be able to overthrow Wolf in the main department for me... and of course, extra points if he/it has Stealth Rock. I mean, Lycanroc's one of the four newcomers I really want to see in Ultimate, so to me, not playing him/it at all would be absurd.

3. I have a slight preference for both Midday and Dusk (tied), but Midnight isn't that far behind.

4. I had a Midday Lycanroc on my Sun team, and its Stealth Rock (of course) made it one of my team's most valuable members. I wanted to use a completely different team for Ultra Moon though, so I didn't reuse it.