Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

Garteam

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2 more members of Kukui's team have been revealed:
That still leaves one last Kukui Pokemon to be revealed. My bet's either on Delzethin's prediction of Tapu Koko or a Gen 8 Pokemon (Possibly Corviknight?).
 

Guynamednelson

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Apparently Square-Enix wanted Slime to be the DQ rep, but Sakurai was able to get the Heroes instead. Makes me wonder if Slime's not the only mascot who Sakurai was suggested, but chose not to add as a playable character.

In addition, it looks like DLC fighters were planned even earlier than we thought-specifically, early enough to validate the "Rex is too new, therefore 3H and SS are too" argument. The Hero was planned as a base game character, but the owners of DQ's music wanted to earn more money from their inclusion, therefore DLC. Which makes me wonder some more about why there's enough Gen 7 content not in the game to justify a second one being a part of the Fighter's Pass.
 
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Delzethin

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Apparently Square-Enix wanted Slime to be the DQ rep, but Sakurai was able to get the Heroes instead. Makes me wonder if Slime's not the only mascot who Sakurai was suggested, but chose not to add as a playable character.

In addition, it looks like DLC fighters were planned even earlier than we thought-specifically, early enough to validate the "Rex is too new, therefore 3H and SS are too" argument. The Hero was planned as a base game character, but the owners of DQ's music wanted to earn more money from their inclusion, therefore DLC. Which makes me wonder some more about why there's enough Gen 7 content not in the game to justify a second one being a part of the Fighter's Pass.
I take it you mean the translations A Ayumi Tachibana did of Sakurai's cameo during the DQXI livestream yesterday?




Worth mentioning that the part about DQ content being planned for the base game is apparently ambiguous, at least enough that the translator wasn't sure if they heard it right. The part about development getting pushed back to DLC because of the composer being a control freak is pure speculation, though from what I've heard about him I certainly wouldn't put it past him. And since Push only did a partial translation himself, we're left not knowing exactly what was said regarding develpoment timeframes unless another translator can step up to the plate.

That said...I don't think this tells us anything about when DLC talk started or if the first season was locked in earlier than November. If the translation we have is correct, Hero was an outlier who was planned for the base game but got delayed to DLC due to outside factors. Of course development would've started sooner for that particular character, since the licensing and everything would've already been hashed out! On the other hand, it's sort of maybe loosely a case of a character who missed out on the base game getting another look for DLC, which would give us another sliver of hope?
 
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LukeRNG

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Well, it seems we have our answer as to what to expect from the new anime quite early:

1569594230288.png

It's too convincing to not be real. Thankfully doesn't reveal too much.
 

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Well, it seems we have our answer as to what to expect from the new anime quite early:

It's too convincing to not be real. Thankfully doesn't reveal too much.
Yeah, it seems too legitimate to be a hoax job. Seems like most of the fanbase has caught on, though I'm not sure how much of that is just people following trends.

Either way, looks like the Gen 8 anime has a globetrotting theme. Different from how I expected them to handle visiting every past region--I was guessing a pro league of some kind--but this works too. And we have a glimpse of the so far ambiguously gendered companion and their Scorbunny--which means Ash won't have one in his own team.

Bit unusual that there isn't a single Lycanroc among the 'mons in the background, though maybe that was because Zacian and Zamazenta are right next to the Alola section and it may have looked weird to have three wolves so close together. There're some other notable absences, anyway, like multiple starters.
 

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Yeah, it seems too legitimate to be a hoax job. Seems like most of the fanbase has caught on, though I'm not sure how much of that is just people following trends.

Either way, looks like the Gen 8 anime has a globetrotting theme. Different from how I expected them to handle visiting every past region--I was guessing a pro league of some kind--but this works too. And we have a glimpse of the so far ambiguously gendered companion and their Scorbunny--which means Ash won't have one in his own team.

Bit unusual that there isn't a single Lycanroc among the 'mons in the background, though maybe that was because Zacian and Zamazenta are right next to the Alola section and it may have looked weird to have three wolves so close together. There're some other notable absences, anyway, like multiple starters.
Well, we have Yamper instead.

Plus, it seems we won't get a full trailer til maybe next week.
 
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LukeRNG

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Is it possible for 1st party dlc characters to not come with a stage or music? I've seen this topic pop up suprisingly often since Sans came with a song.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Is it possible for 1st party dlc characters to not come with a stage or music? I've seen this topic pop up suprisingly often since Sans came with a song.
Piranha Plant should've already been proof that a fighter can just come with the fighter.
 

Cosmic77

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Is it possible for 1st party dlc characters to not come with a stage or music? I've seen this topic pop up suprisingly often since Sans came with a song.
No franchise is required to get a new stage with a new character, not even third-party characters.

But to directly answer your question, yes, it is possible. I don't know how likely that is since the top contenders should all get stages in my eyes, but anything could happen.
 
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Cyborg Sun

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If they don't take the Fighters Pass route (or they do something different with it), then I feel the chances of some first parties showing up will be higher. Maybe they can just release only a few Challenger Packs (focusing on new franchises) while they release more individual DLC like Piranha Plant? (They could even bundle some new music tracks... heck, maybe even a returning stage if the character is from the relevant franchise!).

...Yeah, the problem with Season 2 at the moment is that we don't really know what the heck they're planning yet. We don't necessarily have a past precedent to go off of, so speculation for this is really just flinging mud at the wall and seeing what globs will stick.
 

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Last three episodes have been revealed.

First is the conclusion to the Kukui battle, Torracat vs Incineroar.
Then there's a suprising Pikachu vs Tapu Koko battle.
And finally, we have the typical "Let's hear everyone's dreams out loud before we say goodbye" episode.

I'm predicting a rushed ending, but who knows? Maybe they'll suprise me.
 

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Hoo boy. I'm letting an update backlog happen again, aren't I?

First, I imagine everyone heard that the leaked anime art got confirmed, as Gen 8's anime is going with a globetrotting theme.


Ash's new companion is named Gou in the original Japanese (no word on if the dub is changing it). The name itself means "strong", and might or might not also be referencing Pokémon Go. Inspired by a chance encounter with Mew when he was very young, Gou wants to meet--and catch--legendary Pokémon all over the world. Should be an interesting contrast to Ash's goal of becoming a master trainer.

While also raising serious ethical questions of wanting to capture beings that range from mythical creatures to outright deities. Didn't the second Pokémon movie show what can go wrong with that? Though maybe they're aware, and planning on deconstructing Gou's motivation in a way that compels him to shift his focus.


Secondly, something interesting happened in Part 1 of Ash's exhibition match against Kukui. Ash's Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar reached a stalemate early on after the latter somehow used the gem around his neck to block the former's Blast Burn. Ash took the opportunity to swap Lycanroc in, which set up a sequence where Lycanroc approached from the air with stone in mouth like a knife (a Stone Edge variant?), while Incineroar squared up for an anti-air Throat Chop.



Who won the trade? Well...



Not enough to score a KO, but a serious enough hit to force Kukui to switch him out for his Braviary. Kinda figured Ash's Lycanroc wouldn't do too much here after having the spotlight in the actual League finals (so the other team members could get a chance to do stuff), so this was neat.



Damn it, Smashboards, cooperate with me here.

Last three episodes have been revealed.

First is the conclusion to the Kukui battle, Torracat vs Incineroar.
Then there's a suprising Pikachu vs Tapu Koko battle.
And finally, we have the typical "Let's hear everyone's dreams out loud before we say goodbye" episode.

I'm predicting a rushed ending, but who knows? Maybe they'll suprise me.
Well, we don't know if they're the last three for sure, but we did get titles.

Episode 1085: Conclusion! Incineroar VS Torracat!!
Episode 1086: The Greatest Z in Alola! Tapu Koko VS Pikachu!
Episode 1087: The Sun, the Moon and Everyone's Dreams!
So the weird thing is...despite the title, it's actually kinda ambiguous right now when the Ash/Kukui match actually ends. They're still keeping Kukui's 6th 'mon a secret, he has an Electrium crystal despite none of his known five being Electric types, Pikachu has only been shown fighting Kukui's Empoleon in a preview (and we know both sides are utilizing switch ins), and now we know for a fact that Tapu Koko is in play somehow in an upcoming episode and even had a cameo in the episode a couple days ago, shown hanging out above the stadium in one clip. I still can't help but think Tapu Koko is Kukui's 6th, as part of a temporary team up.

They could even justify having Ash use Inferno Overdrive and 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt, since Tapu Koko has recharged Z-Power in the anime before and would be the type to do just that to ensure a fairer fight.

The post-battle episode will apparently have Ash make a "big decision" of some kind. Probably to travel across the globe and face other trainers worldwide, to set up the next saga. We don't know if there'll be one or two more episodes after this one--Mohn still hasn't shown up yet, and Magearna is still deactivated, and it'd be weird for two plot points like that to stay unresolved (unless those'll happen when Ash revisits Alola in the Gen 8 anime).

Which raises one more question: What'll they do with Ash's current team? They usually get some kind of closure at the end of a region, even if it's just "shipped off to Oak's lab". Could see Torracat joining up with Kukui's Masked Royal gig as an understudy, Melmetal being left with the Aether Foundation for observation and to assist with stuff, Rowlet rejoining his foster family (which could possibly also get taken in by Aether, so he'd get to see his buddy all the time too), et cetera.

But where does that leave Lycanroc? Sitting around with Professor Oak would feel...I dunno, inadequate for a team ace nowadays. Greninja became Zygarde's emissary to help Kalos recover after Team Flare wreaked havoc, but we don't have a counterpart to that for Alola. Sticking around with Kukui is an option, though may not offer the kind of opponents that'd settle Lycanroc's character arc of personal growth and becoming a better competitor in a meaningful way.

It's unlikely, but wouldn't it be something if the Alola anime defied formula one more time and had Lycanroc stay with Ash? And since Ash is sharing the main character role for Gen 8 and his experience as a trainer is being emphasized, they could actually justify having him start with a strong lineup and have Gou be the one whose team develops over time.
 
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Kremling Man

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Really grew to like Lycanroc a lot over the last couple of months. It's honestly become one of my favourite Pokemon. I like all three forms but dusk is definetly my favourite. Glad it got such a big focus in the anime and became one of Ash's main Pokemon.

With the DLC continuing I still want Decidueye in, but it's a tie between it and Lycanroc in terms of Pokemon I want in as DLC.

Don't get me wrong I'll be happy about whichever characters get in and if Incineroar was the final Pokemon in the game I'm content with that. But hope we get something.
 

LukeRNG

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Hoo boy. I'm letting an update backlog happen again, aren't I?

First, I imagine everyone heard that the leaked anime art got confirmed, as Gen 8's anime is going with a globetrotting theme.


Ash's new companion is named Gou in the original Japanese (no word on if the dub is changing it). The name itself means "strong", and might or might not also be referencing Pokémon Go. Inspired by a chance encounter with Mew when he was very young, Gou wants to meet--and catch--legendary Pokémon all over the world. Should be an interesting contrast to Ash's goal of becoming a master trainer.

While also raising serious ethical questions of wanting to capture beings that range from mythical creatures to outright deities. Didn't the second Pokémon movie show what can go wrong with that? Though maybe they're aware, and planning on deconstructing Gou's motivation in a way that compels him to shift his focus.


Secondly, something interesting happened in Part 1 of Ash's exhibition match against Kukui. Ash's Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar reached a stalemate early on after the latter somehow used the gem around his neck to block the former's Blast Burn. Ash took the opportunity to swap Lycanroc in, which set up a sequence where Lycanroc approached from the air with stone in mouth like a knife (a Stone Edge variant?), while Incineroar squared up for an anti-air Throat Chop.



Who won the trade? Well...



Not enough to score a KO, but a serious enough hit to force Kukui to switch him out for his Braviary. Kinda figured Ash's Lycanroc wouldn't do too much here after having the spotlight in the actual League finals (so the other team members could get a chance to do stuff), so this was neat.



Damn it, Smashboards, cooperate with me here.



Well, we don't know if they're the last three for sure, but we did get titles.



So the weird thing is...despite the title, it's actually kinda ambiguous right now when the Ash/Kukui match actually ends. They're still keeping Kukui's 6th 'mon a secret, he has an Electrium crystal despite none of his known five being Electric types, Pikachu has only been shown fighting Kukui's Empoleon in a preview (and we know both sides are utilizing switch ins), and now we know for a fact that Tapu Koko is in play somehow in an upcoming episode and even had a cameo in the episode a couple days ago, shown hanging out above the stadium in one clip. I still can't help but think Tapu Koko is Kukui's 6th, as part of a temporary team up.

They could even justify having Ash use Inferno Overdrive and 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt, since Tapu Koko has recharged Z-Power in the anime before and would be the type to do just that to ensure a fairer fight.

The post-battle episode will apparently have Ash make a "big decision" of some kind. Probably to travel across the globe and face other trainers worldwide, to set up the next saga. We don't know if there'll be one or two more episodes after this one--Mohn still hasn't shown up yet, and Magearna is still deactivated, and it'd be weird for two plot points like that to stay unresolved (unless those'll happen when Ash revisits Alola in the Gen 8 anime).

Which raises one more question: What'll they do with Ash's current team? They usually get some kind of closure at the end of a region, even if it's just "shipped off to Oak's lab". Could see Torracat joining up with Kukui's Masked Royal gig as an understudy, Melmetal being left with the Aether Foundation for observation and to assist with stuff, Rowlet rejoining his foster family (which could possibly also get taken in by Aether, so he'd get to see his buddy all the time too), et cetera.

But where does that leave Lycanroc? Sitting around with Professor Oak would feel...I dunno, inadequate for a team ace nowadays. Greninja became Zygarde's emissary to help Kalos recover after Team Flare wreaked havoc, but we don't have a counterpart to that for Alola. Sticking around with Kukui is an option, though may not offer the kind of opponents that'd settle Lycanroc's character arc of personal growth and becoming a better competitor in a meaningful way.

It's unlikely, but wouldn't it be something if the Alola anime defied formula one more time and had Lycanroc stay with Ash? And since Ash is sharing the main character role for Gen 8 and his experience as a trainer is being emphasized, they could actually justify having him start with a strong lineup and have Gou be the one whose team develops over time.
It'd be amazing if Ash actually swaped his pokemon constantly throughout the series. Even if this would make it difficult to develop any new pokemon he catches, i'd be really sweet to see his old pokemon again. And if they're going to feature a bunch of pokemon from across all generations anyway i don't see why this couldn't happen.
Especially since Go is giving me the vibes of new protagonist for the future series, a replacement for Ash after this series ends.
 
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RandomAce

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Hoo boy. I'm letting an update backlog happen again, aren't I?

First, I imagine everyone heard that the leaked anime art got confirmed, as Gen 8's anime is going with a globetrotting theme.


Ash's new companion is named Gou in the original Japanese (no word on if the dub is changing it). The name itself means "strong", and might or might not also be referencing Pokémon Go. Inspired by a chance encounter with Mew when he was very young, Gou wants to meet--and catch--legendary Pokémon all over the world. Should be an interesting contrast to Ash's goal of becoming a master trainer.

While also raising serious ethical questions of wanting to capture beings that range from mythical creatures to outright deities. Didn't the second Pokémon movie show what can go wrong with that? Though maybe they're aware, and planning on deconstructing Gou's motivation in a way that compels him to shift his focus.


Secondly, something interesting happened in Part 1 of Ash's exhibition match against Kukui. Ash's Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar reached a stalemate early on after the latter somehow used the gem around his neck to block the former's Blast Burn. Ash took the opportunity to swap Lycanroc in, which set up a sequence where Lycanroc approached from the air with stone in mouth like a knife (a Stone Edge variant?), while Incineroar squared up for an anti-air Throat Chop.



Who won the trade? Well...



Not enough to score a KO, but a serious enough hit to force Kukui to switch him out for his Braviary. Kinda figured Ash's Lycanroc wouldn't do too much here after having the spotlight in the actual League finals (so the other team members could get a chance to do stuff), so this was neat.



Damn it, Smashboards, cooperate with me here.



Well, we don't know if they're the last three for sure, but we did get titles.



So the weird thing is...despite the title, it's actually kinda ambiguous right now when the Ash/Kukui match actually ends. They're still keeping Kukui's 6th 'mon a secret, he has an Electrium crystal despite none of his known five being Electric types, Pikachu has only been shown fighting Kukui's Empoleon in a preview (and we know both sides are utilizing switch ins), and now we know for a fact that Tapu Koko is in play somehow in an upcoming episode and even had a cameo in the episode a couple days ago, shown hanging out above the stadium in one clip. I still can't help but think Tapu Koko is Kukui's 6th, as part of a temporary team up.

They could even justify having Ash use Inferno Overdrive and 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt, since Tapu Koko has recharged Z-Power in the anime before and would be the type to do just that to ensure a fairer fight.

The post-battle episode will apparently have Ash make a "big decision" of some kind. Probably to travel across the globe and face other trainers worldwide, to set up the next saga. We don't know if there'll be one or two more episodes after this one--Mohn still hasn't shown up yet, and Magearna is still deactivated, and it'd be weird for two plot points like that to stay unresolved (unless those'll happen when Ash revisits Alola in the Gen 8 anime).

Which raises one more question: What'll they do with Ash's current team? They usually get some kind of closure at the end of a region, even if it's just "shipped off to Oak's lab". Could see Torracat joining up with Kukui's Masked Royal gig as an understudy, Melmetal being left with the Aether Foundation for observation and to assist with stuff, Rowlet rejoining his foster family (which could possibly also get taken in by Aether, so he'd get to see his buddy all the time too), et cetera.

But where does that leave Lycanroc? Sitting around with Professor Oak would feel...I dunno, inadequate for a team ace nowadays. Greninja became Zygarde's emissary to help Kalos recover after Team Flare wreaked havoc, but we don't have a counterpart to that for Alola. Sticking around with Kukui is an option, though may not offer the kind of opponents that'd settle Lycanroc's character arc of personal growth and becoming a better competitor in a meaningful way.

It's unlikely, but wouldn't it be something if the Alola anime defied formula one more time and had Lycanroc stay with Ash? And since Ash is sharing the main character role for Gen 8 and his experience as a trainer is being emphasized, they could actually justify having him start with a strong lineup and have Gou be the one whose team develops over time.
Really showcases Lycanroc’s improvement over the anime considering Kukui’s Incineroar is almost always portrayed being near unstoppable. However, I have a feeling Lycanroc will lose against Braviary.

The Gen 8 anime also begins in the 17th of next month, so I could only really see 1-2 episodes squeeze in. I’ll admit that I have been thinking about Lycanroc potentially coming back again too. Not really gonna hold my breath over it, but it would be nice if Lycanroc still held some prominence later on.

Anyways, in regards to Smash, would it be interesting if for the next reveal they repeated the theme of Ken and Incineroar with Terry and Lycanroc. I mean come on, with Terry’s whole motif being based on wolves and with Lycanroc actually being wolves, I think it would be a great way to transition into Lycanroc with Terry.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Anyways, in regards to Smash, would it be interesting if for the next reveal they repeated the theme of Ken and Incineroar with Terry and Lycanroc. I mean come on, with Terry’s whole motif being based on wolves and with Lycanroc actually being wolves, I think it would be a great way to transition into Lycanroc with Terry.
I already had this idea myself. Hell, go all the way and have Rock be a part of it to, since he debuted in Mark of the Wolves.
 

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Another anime episode aired, and...well, some interesting stuff happened.

More importantly for us, the episode started off with the Lycanroc vs. Braviary matchup the previous one was leading into. With features including...



Tanking a Sky Drop...



Attempting to gain control with a well placed Stone Edge, only for that to not work as Kukui's Braviary had picked up Crush Claw since its last appearance and used it to zone break...





And even then, still hanging on just a little longer...



...before finally collapsing.



A decent showing in a fight that was going to feature the rest of Ash's team more anyway.

This is what it's down to now:





Ash brought Naganadel out to face Kukui's Lucario despite how ineffective its STAB would be, with Torracat still standing and Pikachu catching his breath after getting spun around by a Whirlpool courtesy of Kukui's Empoleon. Turns out you can cure confusion by switching the affected 'mon out in the anime too, I guess.

Interesting to note that they're still going out of their way to keep Kukui's 6th team member a secret. And considering this shot near the episode's end...



It really does look like Tapu Koko agreed to lend the professor a hand, and is waiting for his cue.
 
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Cosmic77

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Not gonna lie, if Tapu Koko ends up being the final fight, then that's pretty underwhelming. The rivalry between Torracat and Incineroar has always been the focus whenever Masked Royal is present, so why have a Pokemon who's barely interacted with Kukui swoop in and offer to be his final Pokemon? The "rivalry" between Pikachu and Tapu Koko barely existed compared to the other three rivalries his Pokemon had.

Oh well. Guess I can't complain too much. At least Torracat is getting an episode dedicated to its battle. It at least deserved that much. Heck, we might even see it evolve if its bell ringing was supposed to be taken as a hint.
 

RandomAce

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Another anime episode aired, and...well, some interesting stuff happened.

More importantly for us, the episode started off with the Lycanroc vs. Braviary matchup the previous one was leading into. With features including...



Tanking a Sky Drop...



Attempting to gain control with a well placed Stone Edge, only for that to not work as Kukui's Braviary had picked up Crush Claw since its last appearance and used it to zone break...





And even then, still hanging on just a little longer...



...before finally collapsing.



A decent showing in a fight that was going to feature the rest of Ash's team more anyway.

This is what it's down to now:





Ash brought Naganadel out to face Kukui's Lucario despite how ineffective its STAB would be, with Torracat still standing and Pikachu catching his breath after getting spun around by a Whirlpool courtesy of Kukui's Empoleon. Turns out you can cure confusion by switching the affected 'mon out in the anime too, I guess.

Interesting to note that they're still going out of their way to keep Kukui's 6th team member a secret. And considering this shot near the episode's end...



It really does look like Tapu Koko agreed to lend the professor a hand, and is waiting for his cue.
Well it has been confirmed actually. Summaries of the upcoming episodes have came out and the one after the next one has stated that “Tapu-Koko has come to join as Kukui’s partner and battle against Ash’s Pikachu. Watch their Z-Moves collide.”

Considering that episode is named Tapu-koko vs Pikachu, I’m going to assume that Incineroar vs Torrocat will end in a stalemate and the final battle is going to between Pikachu and Tapu-Koko.

The episode after Tapu-Koko has stated that the lives of everyone after the league have went back to normal and that everyone has made their decision on what their doing in the future, and Ash will make his soon. I feel like this is more or less going to transition into the next anime series Pokémon.
 

Kremling Man

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The English episodes are airing where I am so I haven't seen spoilers not do I know the results. So kind of avoiding everything.

But I'm looking forward to finding out.

Myself.
 

Delzethin

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Not gonna lie, if Tapu Koko ends up being the final fight, then that's pretty underwhelming. The rivalry between Torracat and Incineroar has always been the focus whenever Masked Royal is present, so why have a Pokemon who's barely interacted with Kukui swoop in and offer to be his final Pokemon? The "rivalry" between Pikachu and Tapu Koko barely existed compared to the other three rivalries his Pokemon had.

Oh well. Guess I can't complain too much. At least Torracat is getting an episode dedicated to its battle. It at least deserved that much. Heck, we might even see it evolve if its bell ringing was supposed to be taken as a hint.
Well...the bell thing already got resolved. The fire stored within it was used to create a superpowered Fire Blast that one shot Kukui's Venusaur, and now it's back to normal. Another example of Ash being unusually good at improvising strategies, but seemingly not much beyond that.

I do think the next episode will give the Torracat/Incineroar rivalry some closure, though. There'll be some blows traded, Inferno Overdrive will finally get used, et cetera. My guess is it'll end with them both landing big hits on each other, Kukui's Incineroar finally falls, Ash's Torracat hangs on long enough to see it happen and technically get the win...and then promptly also collapses from exhaustion, leaving both sides down to one 'mon apiece.

At which point Kukui gives Tapu Koko the signal and reveals that he struck an agreement several days prior. The audience gets to see divinity in action, Tapu Koko gets to face a worthy opponent, everyone wins. While combining the final Kukui fight and the Tapu Koko rematch feels a bit rushed--and maybe the writers did end up needing to wrap things up quicker than they'd anticipated--ending the Alola saga by straight up beating a legendary in what amounts to a 1v1 battle would be one hell of an exclamation point. Your move, Tobias.
 
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Cosmic77

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So in today's anime episode...

Torracat evolved into Incineroar.

I don't know how everyone else in this thread feels about that, but this is something I was hoping would happen. Not only did Torracat desperately deserve some character development after its first evolution, but this helps solidly the foundation we've been using to predict Pokemon characters that would get in Smash - the anime.

Just like Lycanroc, Incineroar was fairly important in the anime, and now we have further proof that Greninja and Incineroar may have been chosen for other reasons aside from Sakurai thinking they'd be cool.
 

Guynamednelson

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we have further proof that Greninja and Incineroar may have been chosen for other reasons aside from Sakurai thinking they'd be cool.
Sure, but consider how long it took for Torracat to finally evolve: So long that it's after Ash's infamous league victory, and almost at the end of the SM anime. And Ash's Incineroar seems to be just a plain old Incineroar, no unique form.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is them going "oh ****, we gotta justify Incineroar stealing Mimikyu/Lycanroc's slot SOMEHOW!"
 
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Cosmic77

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Sure, but consider how long it took for Torracat to finally evolve: So long that it's after Ash's infamous league victory, and almost at the end of the SM anime. And Ash's Incineroar seems to be just a plain old Incineroar, no unique form.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is them going "oh ****, we gotta justify Incineroar stealing Mimikyu/Lycanroc's slot SOMEHOW!"
Ash's Incineroar easily had the deepest backstory out of every Pokemon on Ash's team, even Lycanroc, so I feel like they had always planned on it evolving. I don't know why they waited this long for it to happen, but the Litten line got more focus than most of the other Pokemon in SuMo. Might not have been as much as Lycanroc, but it was more than Rowlet, Melmetal, and Naganadel and definitely more than Primarina and Decidueye.
 

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Sure, but consider how long it took for Torracat to finally evolve: So long that it's after Ash's infamous league victory, and almost at the end of the SM anime. And Ash's Incineroar seems to be just a plain old Incineroar, no unique form.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is them going "oh ****, we gotta justify Incineroar stealing Mimikyu/Lycanroc's slot SOMEHOW!"
I wouldn't go that far to say this was shoehorned in for Smash-related reasons, but this does feel...I dunno, tacked on. A sudden evolution at the last possible moment of combat, only to immediately be pushed aside for a bigger deal of a matchup in the same battle without ever getting to do anything with the new form?

In the big picture, I don't think this invalidates what Ash's Lycanroc has done, nor does it change who had the ace role. A tragic backstory, one totem encounter, two battles in paralogue episodes, one League match, and an important role in the saga's post-final boss fight are notable and all, but compared to two Grand Trials, two Tapu encounters, multiple miscellaneous battles across the saga (including the same post-final boss), strong association with Ash's rival for the region, four battles against said rival, a major role in the Lusamine/Nihilego arc, an under-the-radar character arc about personal growth and overcoming fear of failure, and being the one to win Ash his first League title ever, it's...not as much.

However...now it's going to far more difficult to convince anyone who hasn't been following along that we matter. I've a feeling there'll be a few vultures chiming in across the community search of an easy "win" at the expense of someone else, and this'll be used as a pretense to shut down counterarguments without ever allowing them the chance to be made. After all, what better way to ensure a win than to deny the other side a chance to play?

We may even see people assume Incineroar had to be Ash's ace for Alola just because being a fully evolved starter > everything else, or so I saw it claimed occasionally a year ago. I imagine there'll be a lot of debates among Pokémon fans, but everywhere else their minds will already be made up.

Accomplishing so much only to be swept aside in favor of someone else based on status? That will never sit right with me, yet we just can't seem to escape it. Some kind of tragic irony in that.
 
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Garteam

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So in today's anime episode...

Torracat evolved into Incineroar.

I don't know how everyone else in this thread feels about that, but this is something I was hoping would happen. Not only did Torracat desperately deserve some character development after its first evolution, but this helps solidly the foundation we've been using to predict Pokemon characters that would get in Smash - the anime.

Just like Lycanroc, Incineroar was fairly important in the anime, and now we have further proof that Greninja and Incineroar may have been chosen for other reasons aside from Sakurai thinking they'd be cool.
Well, I honestly didn't expect that, congrats to Incineroar's fans. However, it is kinda strange that it is happening this late. I mean, why would they give Torracat an evolution when it appears that it won't actually get any opportunity to battle? It evolved right after Kukui's Incineroar fainted and fainted itself before Tapu Koko could join the battle. Even May's Blaziken, which evolved in the semi-final of Hoenn, had a battle against Ash's Sceptile in its final form.

My guess is,
1. Incineroar's staying behind so it can bro out with the Masked Royal and his Incineroar.
or
2. Ash's bringing back his Pokemon from previous regions for the globe-trotting tour that will be Galar, leaving the new catches to Go.

He could also be bringing only his Incineroar along, but that would be kinda weird given that non-Kanto starters appear to be victims of the Dex snap. It would be kinda scummy to advertise a Pokemon who can't be used in Sword/Shield, instead requiring a dying system to obtain.

Likewise, I don't really think Incineroar's appearance in the anime really had much influence on its Smash inclusion. I think if Incineroar was always planned to be a major player on Ash's team who the Pokemon Company wanted to promote through Smash, we would've seen him evolve sooner. Even if Incineroar was always planned to evolve, it also doesn't explain how Decidueye made it so far into the consideration process if his entire species didn't make an appearance until the end of the anime. The only way I could see that being explained is if Ash was originally planned to have a Decidueye to go along with his Incineroar, but the Pokemon Company got switched plans when they saw how much of a marketing behemoth Rowlet had become.
 
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Cosmic77

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Well, I honestly didn't expect that, congrats to Incineroar's fans. However, it is kinda strange that it is happening this late. I mean, why would they give Torracat an evolution when it appears that it won't actually get any opportunity to battle? It evolved right after Kukui's Incineroar fainted and fainted itself before Tapu Koko could join the battle. Even May's Blaziken, which evolved in the semi-final of Hoenn, had a battle against Ash's Sceptile in its final form.

My guess is,
1. Incineroar's staying behind so it can bro out with the Masked Royal and his Incineroar.
or
2. Ash's bringing back his Pokemon from previous regions for the globe-trotting tour that will be Galar, leaving the new catches to Go.

He could also be bringing only his Incineroar along, but that would be kinda weird given that non-Kanto starters appear to be victims of the Dex snap. It would be kinda scummy to advertise a Pokemon who can't be used in Sword/Shield, instead requiring a dying system to obtain.

Likewise, I don't really think Incineroar's appearance in the anime really had much influence on its Smash inclusion. I think if Incineroar was always planned to be a massive player on Ash's team who the Pokemon Company wanted to promote through Smash, we would've seen him evolve sooner. Even if Incineroar was always planned to evolve, it also doesn't explain how Decidueye made it so far into the consideration process if his entire species didn't make an appearance until the end of the anime. The only way I could see that being explained is if Ash was originally planned to have a Decidueye to go along with his Incineroar, but the Pokemon Company got switched plans when they saw how much of a marketing behemoth Rowlet had become.
It's possible that they have more planned for Incineroar, but I think the main reason behind their decision to have it evolve now was to emphasize how far it's come. Ever since the beginning of the series, it's goal has been to get stronger and impress its mentor, Stoutland, with its power. This was brought up later in the series when it met the now deceased Stoutland and eagerly showed it how strong it's gotten since they last saw each other. Having it finally beat Kukui's Incineroar and evolve to its final form before fainting makes a statement about how it's finally achieved its dream and how hard it worked to get there. It wasn't necessary, but it was a touching way to wrap up its story.

However, I do stand by my belief that the anime (or at least Game Freak) influenced Sakurai. The entire Litten line has always been promoted more than the other two, and I'm adamant that Sakurai hesitated to add Decidueye because of this. Heck, we don't even know how many Pokemon Sakurai gave serious consideration to. For all we know, it could've been limited to just the starters, which makes Incineroar and Decidueye making it "far" in the consideration process less impressive. Once he got word of who Game Freak thought would be the favorite starter (and therefore would be promoted more), he probably felt like that would be the safer option.

And just to be clear, I'm not using this to say Incineroar makes more sense than Lycanroc, because it doesn't. Lycanroc was still the ace; Lycanroc still had a bigger role. Today's episode didn't change anything. I'm just saying we have further proof that...

1. We can use the anime to predict Smash characters.
2. Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye because Game Freak/the anime writers had bigger plans for the former.
 
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LukeRNG

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Well, I honestly didn't expect that, congrats to Incineroar's fans. However, it is kinda strange that it is happening this late. I mean, why would they give Torracat an evolution when it appears that it won't actually get any opportunity to battle? It evolved right after Kukui's Incineroar fainted and fainted itself before Tapu Koko could join the battle. Even May's Blaziken, which evolved in the semi-final of Hoenn, had a battle against Ash's Sceptile in its final form.

My guess is,
1. Incineroar's staying behind so it can bro out with the Masked Royal and his Incineroar.
or
2. Ash's bringing back his Pokemon from previous regions for the globe-trotting tour that will be Galar, leaving the new catches to Go.

He could also be bringing only his Incineroar along, but that would be kinda weird given that non-Kanto starters appear to be victims of the Dex snap. It would be kinda scummy to advertise a Pokemon who can't be used in Sword/Shield, instead requiring a dying system to obtain.
I'm pretty sure some of the pokemon on the new anime poster aren't going to be in Sword & Shield. They said the anime would feature a lot of pokemon from all regions. Unless Sword & Shield has 600/809 pokemon, i don't see why the anime would limit itself so much, especially given the potential of many old characters returning each with their pokemon.

For example, we haven't seen the Garchomp family and we already have a bunch of Dragon type pokemon in the game, with more likely coming (and personally, Garchomp doesn't really fit the region). I highly doubt they wouldn't feature Cynthia in the anime only because you can't get Garchomp in Sword/Shield.
It's just an example, so don't take it too seriously.
 

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I'm pretty sure some of the pokemon on the new anime poster aren't going to be in Sword & Shield. They said the anime would feature a lot of pokemon from all regions. Unless Sword & Shield has 600/809 pokemon, i don't see why the anime would limit itself so much, especially given the potential of many old characters returning each with their pokemon.

For example, we haven't seen the Garchomp family and we already have a bunch of Dragon type pokemon in the game, with more likely coming (and personally, Garchomp doesn't really fit the region). I highly doubt they wouldn't feature Cynthia in the anime only because you can't get Garchomp in Sword/Shield.
It's just an example, so don't take it too seriously.
I definitely agree that Pokemon from the Dex snap will appear in the Sword/Shield anime, I'm just not sure about the Pokemon Company going out of their way to make a Pokemon who doesn't appear in the upcoming games a member of Ash's team in the anime. Aipom made sense to bring along to Sinnoh, as it had just gotten a new cross-gen evolution and little play up until that point. Meanwhile, the Pokemon in question (man, it's awkward talking a non-spoilerific way) has no important ties to the next generation and has an already concluded arc.

The only way I could really see them coming along on Ash's next journey is if they writers are foregoing giving Ash a traditional team in favour of having him swap between his already established members, similar to the Battle Frontier or the Sinnoh League. However, I just can't see Ash going "Hey, you wanna come along with me while I leave all my other Pokemon at Oak's?", I could see him coming along, but its definitely not going to be as a solo act.
 

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I'm pretty sure some of the pokemon on the new anime poster aren't going to be in Sword & Shield.
Well, yeah. It features plenty of starters and legendaries, and they're usually not in other regional dexes. Except Charizard's gonna get special treatment because lolcharizard.
 

Desdar300

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I feel like you know who's evolution is meant to be symbolic of him taking the belt from his mentor thus surpassing him.
I feel like this season is done a really good job as balancing out for the development of all of Ash's team
 

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The fact that two notable characters in the anime have a Galarian Pokemon as their partner is pretty telling.

I don't know if they'll have a reasonable explanation for it, but I expect most, if not all of Ash's team to be Pokemon from the Galar region.
 

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I feel like they'll go in one of two directions with Ash. One would be the usual: having him start with just Pikachu and fill out the rest of his team with 'mons new to the generation over time. I imagine he'd probably end up with a Grookey in that scenario, though it's way too early to figure out who his team ace will be for Gen 8 (especially after he had two starters in Alola and neither had the ace role). The other possibility is he plays the veteran mentor role, with a team that rotates between his 'mons from previous regions while Go and the professor's daughter are the ones getting new recruits from Galar. In that case, his "ace" would probably just be Pikachu, with the other five changing with each mission.

That said, let's keep an eye on things. If they do go the latter route, we really might see Lycanroc stay with Ash into the beginning of the next saga. Has the most direct attachment to Ash of any of the Alola team, at least, up to and including being the direct cause of some major character development.


Now that I think about it, I wonder what kind of backstory Ash's Lycanroc has that we never got to find out about. Having a competitive spirit and a desire to prove oneself is one thing, but there're some traits here that aren't so...typical. Falling apart and being utterly demoralized after making a mistake, to the point of needing a mid-battle pep talk? That happened multiple times early on, to say no less of going off to sulk after being humiliated by Nanu. Obsessing over appearance to the point where getting even a little bit dirty set off a disproportionate rage? Quirky, sure, but when combined with the former, it feels like more than just a source of humor. There's a recurring theme here of a conditioned fear of failure and belief in needing to overcome any opponent, or else. These kinds of self-destructive traits don't just exist, something happens to make them take root and develop. And the above image, with Ash offering acceptance despite the flaws, was the point where that self-destructiveness started fading away.

What happened before Kukui offered somewhere to stay and before Ash showed up? Are we looking at a 'mon that escaped from an abusive trainer who demanded perfection at all times and punished anything less?

Heh, look at me, overthinking things again.
 
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LukeRNG

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I feel like they'll go in one of two directions with Ash. One would be the usual: having him start with just Pikachu and fill out the rest of his team with 'mons new to the generation over time. I imagine he'd probably end up with a Grookey in that scenario, though it's way too early to figure out who his team ace will be for Gen 8 (especially after he had two starters in Alola and neither had the ace role). The other possibility is he plays the veteran mentor role, with a team that rotates between his 'mons from previous regions while Go and the professor's daughter are the ones getting new recruits from Galar. In that case, his "ace" would probably just be Pikachu, with the other five changing with each mission.

That said, let's keep an eye on things. If they do go the latter route, we really might see Lycanroc stay with Ash into the beginning of the next saga. Has the most direct attachment to Ash of any of the Alola team, at least, up to and including being the direct cause of some major character development.


Now that I think about it, I wonder what kind of backstory Ash's Lycanroc has that we never got to find out about. Having a competitive spirit and a desire to prove oneself is one thing, but there're some traits here that aren't so...typical. Falling apart and being utterly demoralized after making a mistake, to the point of needing a mid-battle pep talk? That happened multiple times early on, to say no less of going off to sulk after being humiliated by Nanu. Obsessing over appearance to the point where getting even a little bit dirty set off a disproportionate rage? Quirky, sure, but when combined with the former, it feels like more than just a source of humor. There's a recurring theme here of a conditioned fear of failure and belief in needing to overcome any opponent, or else. These kinds of self-destructive traits don't just exist, something happens to make them take root and develop. And the above image, with Ash offering acceptance despite the flaws, was the point where that self-destructiveness started fading away.

What happened before Kukui offered somewhere to stay and before Ash showed up? Are we looking at a 'mon that escaped from an abusive trainer who demanded perfection at all times and punished anything less?

Heh, look at me, overthinking things again.
That does sound quite similar to his Infernape and it's time with Paul.
 
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What do you guys think of the new GMax forms? Personally, I believe GZard is everything YZard should have been, and I'll gladly take this replacement over Y. Can't pick between GZard and XZard though.
 

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What do you guys think of the new GMax forms? Personally, I believe GZard is everything YZard should have been, and I'll gladly take this replacement over Y. Can't pick between GZard and XZard though.
I love Gigantamax Charizard's design, even more than his Megas.

Gigantamax Eevee is...basically Eevee with a few extra tufts of fur.

Gigantamax Meowth freaks me out a little, not gonna lie.
 

LukeRNG

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What do you guys think of the new GMax forms? Personally, I believe GZard is everything YZard should have been, and I'll gladly take this replacement over Y. Can't pick between GZard and XZard though.
I personally prefer Y over X, that being said I love Gigantamax Charizard. And like how Butterfree looks like Mothra.
 
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