Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

Delzethin

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You know, I realized something about how the anime is setting up the finals.

We were trying to figure out how they'd handle giving Melmetal and Lycanroc some focus, right? Well, right now it seems like the solution they went with was having them feature in different episodes. Melmetal opens the fight against Gladion next week, Pikachu bridges the gap after Melmetal gets KOed, then Lycanroc comes in as team anchor in the following episode on the 15th.

Pretty ingenious, actually.

I don't think it's the concept of a Nintendo pass that's about balance as it is some of their choices. For example, the "no spirit=DLC" crowd focusing way more on Porky than Lycanroc even though the state of Ultimate's content is more suited for adding another Gen 7 Pokemon than another Earthboud rep in the pass.
You're not wrong, and I think the reason why they've hardly looked our way is because they stuck to characters they already knew. A lot of 'em aren't into Pokémon, or cut ties with the games after Gen 2 because it wasn't cool anymore, so they hardly know we even exist. The Smash community has a problem with putting blinders on when it comes to what they think will happen...something we're not exempt of ourselves...

Regardless, I'm really not looking forward to Fighter's Pack #4, as now it's basically guaranteed that the community will be upset either because:

1. the character doesn't fit the leak and people feel like their "expectations" were betrayed (similar to what happened with the Grinch leak)
or
2. the character does fit the leak and people are disappointed by their general obscurity as a character.
Either way, it's going to be ugly. We'd best brace ourselves--there'll be collateral damage no matter what happens.
 

Cosmic77

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I will say that the one good thing that came out of this potential leak is that Edelgard and any other FE character just got a whole lot less likely.

Granted, the same can be said about any Nintendo character, but if it came down to promoting FE vs promoting Pokemon for that last spot, I feel like Pokemon would win without question.

You know, I realized something about how the anime is setting up the finals.

We were trying to figure out how they'd handle giving Melmetal and Lycanroc some focus, right? Well, right now it seems like the solution they went with was having them feature in different episodes. Melmetal opens the fight against Gladion next week, Pikachu bridges the gap after Melmetal gets KOed, then Lycanroc comes in as team anchor in the following episode on the 15th.

Pretty ingenious, actually.
Unless there's more to the episode than what we saw in the preview, I can't see how that one tweet was correct in saying the finals would end in one episode.

Anyway, the order they send their Pokemon out is really weird, and I really don't know how this will go aside from Pikachu beating Silvally and fighting "Lycanroc". The match begins with Silvally vs Melmetal, but we also see Pikachu battling Silvally. That suggests that Melmetal is either KOd right after evolving, or it gets switched out. Then I've seen others point out how "Lycanroc" seems to be using Night Daze, so that could mean Zoroark is the second Pokemon.
 
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I will say that the one good thing that came out of this potential leak is that Edelgard and any other FE character just got a whole lot less likely.

Granted, the same can be said about any Nintendo character, but if it came down to promoting FE vs promoting Pokemon for that last spot, I feel like Pokemon would win without question.
That is, if we're even comparing the two. Furthermore, we'd be comparing the two as "promotional picks" which is a shallow view of the situation. (Not a wrong assesment I'd say, just a bit curt in wording at the expense of what would go behind such an "advertisement" pick.

I've also read Delzethin's post and it surprises me that he'd say that Smash would have succumbed to third parties if the Fighter Pass would consist mostly if not entirely of them. DLC is a different situation than the base game, arguably evident by the different newcomer selection for Smash 4 DLC compared to Smash Ultimate. In fact, between Ryu, Cloud and to a lesser extent Bayonetta, we've already seen a "better, stronger, hyper" third party pack that didn't spell the trajectory the rest of the series took. A "Fighter Pack" lends itself well for introducing new series to Smash, whereas a base game newcomer can simply stand on its own without having to carry along a stage, music and spirits. Cross-over potential is part of it, but as I said before I think, it's much easier to max out on fan service when a character does not only bring itself to the table, but also its home game and home series, and a stage, music and spirit board for each newcomer encourages this carrying potential much more than a standalone newcomer in a base game. It's part of why Edelgard manages to stand out: Three Houses is a brand new experience with a score that lends itself well for a music pack and mechanics that lend themselves well for a newcomer that goes above and beyond itself to bring the game to life in Smash.
 

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That is, if we're even comparing the two. Furthermore, we'd be comparing the two as "promotional picks" which is a shallow view of the situation. (Not a wrong assesment I'd say, just a bit curt in wording at the expense of what would go behind such an "advertisement" pick.

I've also read Delzethin's post and it surprises me that he'd say that Smash would have succumbed to third parties if the Fighter Pass would consist mostly if not entirely of them. DLC is a different situation than the base game, arguably evident by the different newcomer selection for Smash 4 DLC compared to Smash Ultimate. In fact, between Ryu, Cloud and to a lesser extent Bayonetta, we've already seen a "better, stronger, hyper" third party pack that didn't spell the trajectory the rest of the series took. A "Fighter Pack" lends itself well for introducing new series to Smash, whereas a base game newcomer can simply stand on its own without having to carry along a stage, music and spirits. Cross-over potential is part of it, but as I said before I think, it's much easier to max out on fan service when a character does not only bring itself to the table, but also its home game and home series, and a stage, music and spirit board for each newcomer encourages this carrying potential much more than a standalone newcomer in a base game. It's part of why Edelgard manages to stand out: Three Houses is a brand new experience with a score that lends itself well for a music pack and mechanics that lend themselves well for a newcomer that goes above and beyond itself to bring the game to life in Smash.
It's like I've been saying: Just because a DLC season has all third parties, doesn't mean Smash will turn into "Third Parties Only". Then again, maybe he's just referring to a potential second DLC season, which could fall under the same trap because, y'know, it's still DLC...

But I think I know how first parties can be given a chance in a second season. I always imagined they could add changes that would be expected of a brand new game in a second season (those are details to share another time, I believe), and things like Assist Trophy promotion is one of them. What if, in "Wave 2", they release something different from a Fighters Pass: An "Expansion Pass". What's the difference? Well, at the beginning of the season, they release 4-5 newcomers (a couple are echoes), maybe even a couple returning stages that never got a chance, and all of them are first parties from franchises already in Smash (some are former Assist Trophies!). For the rest of the expansion, it works just like the Fighters Pass: a new character from a never-before-seen franchise (third or first party) every few months with a new stage (I would say there are only about 3 or so this time, considering the number of newcomers at the beginning). Is something like this too much to ask from a developmental standpoint, especially for DLC? Perhaps, but I'm just throwing ideas out there.
 
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LukeRNG

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Hey, would you look at that:


Just 8 minutes ago from posting this they finally announce a direct. And pokemon Sword and Shield will be one of the main games at the direct.
Will we get the announcement of the next smash dlc character then?
 
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RandomAce

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Hey, would you look at that:


Just 8 minutes ago from posting this they finally announce a direct. And pokemon Sword and Shield will be one of the main games at the direct.
Will we get the announcement of the next smash dlc character then?
Now it’s time for the waiting game. At least we’ll finally get more stuff on Sword and Shield.

I would have had a gif with a guy sitting and tapping his fingers waiting menacingly, but Smashboard images are still broken.
 

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Sorry to get off topic, but an official SNK account on Twitter has mentioned the rumors.

IMO, this seems like a nail in the coffin. I find it unlikely that Nintendo would be happy with this kind of teasing if this was a major leak. Granted, I imagine the person running this account wouldn't really have access to that kind of information, but I imagine if there would be a pretty blatant "dude, shut up" before the tweet was swiftly deleted.

Also, a listing for a new SNK Heroines fighter (Jeanne D'Arc) went up right after the Challenger Pack #4 listing went down. This is either Nintendo covering their asses or undoing the mistake that they originally made (putting her DLC description on an incorrect product).
 

Delzethin

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Will we get the announcement of the next smash dlc character then?
Most likely.


Our time is running thinner, and if the rumors are true, our window of opportunity is but a single space wide. Hopefully we can pull off a miracle. Somehow.

Tread carefully, everyone. The boards are going to get pretty wild for the next few days, especially with a potential leak looming overhead. I wouldn't want you guys to get caught up in yet another crossfire, especially when hardly anyone seems to realize we're here.

I think our best course of action will be to see how this next reveal pans out, and assess the situation afterward to figure out if any room is left for us. Sneaking in via a double reveal would be something, unlikely as it is.

Whatever happens, we'll be learning something of note about Sword & Shield. Hopefully it includes a Lycanroc sighting so we can stop having to worry about that, at least.

It's like I've been saying: Just because a DLC season has all third parties, doesn't mean Smash will turn into "Third Parties Only". Then again, maybe he's just referring to a potential second DLC season, which could fall under the same trap because, y'know, it's still DLC...

But I think I know how first parties can be given a chance in a second season. I always imagined they could add changes that would be expected of a brand new game in a second season (those are details to share another time, I believe), and things like Assist Trophy promotion is one of them. What if, in "Wave 2", they release something different from a Fighters Pass: An "Expansion Pass". What's the difference? Well, at the beginning of the season, they release 4-5 newcomers (a couple are echoes), maybe even a couple returning stages that never got a chance, and all of them are first parties from franchises already in Smash (some are former Assist Trophies!). For the rest of the expansion, it works just like the Fighters Pass: a new character from a never-before-seen franchise (third or first party) every few months with a new stage (I would say there are only about 3 or so this time, considering the number of newcomers at the beginning). Is something like this too much to ask from a developmental standpoint, especially for DLC? Perhaps, but I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Season 2 is what I was thinking of, if things come to pass the way I'm afraid they might. Would be a damn shame if we got another wave and yet every Nintendo character kept getting locked out anyway for...whatever reason. Don't worry, I'm not jumping to conclusions on what the next Smash game might do--all bets are off for that since it's years away and a lot can change over time.

I'm...not sure how practical a full on expansion would be to kick off a second wave, though. That'd require a lot of extra development up front.
 
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Cyborg Sun

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I'm...not sure how practical a full on expansion would be to kick off a second wave, though. That'd require a lot of extra development up front.
Yeah, I guess what I was trying to say was that a Season 2 would be a sign of "Yup, there won't be a new game anytime soon" so they probably would include a few first parties. Is my idea the best way of going about it? It most likely isn't, but eh. Like Guynamednelson suggested, they can't keep making deals forever... right?
 
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Delzethin

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Anyone else still awake?

While we wait for the Direct, anyone want to try and predict how details of the Alola League finals will go down in the anime? Just for bragging rights. It'll give us something to discuss to help pass the time.
 
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Cosmic77

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Anyone else still awake?

While we wait for the Direct, anyone want to try and predict how details of the Alola League finals will go down in the anime? Just for bragging rights. It'll give us something to discuss to help pass the time.
Here's my educated guess:

Silvally vs Melmetal
Melmetal gets swapped out
Silvally vs Pikachu
Pikachu beats Silvally
"Midnight Lycanroc" vs Pikachu
"Midnight Lycanroc" is Zoroark
Zoroark beats Pikachu
Zoroark vs Melmetal
Melmetal beats Zoroark
Midnight Lycanroc vs Melmetal
Midnight Lycanroc beats Melmetal
Midnight Lycanroc vs Dusk Lycanroc
Dusk Lycanroc beats Midnight Lycanroc
Ash wins

The only thing I'm 95% positive will happen is Pikachu beating Silvally. The rest is up in the air. I'd hate to see Melmetal get wasted by Silvally after all this buildup, and I doubt Lycanroc vs Lycanroc won't be a thing.

Alternatively, I suppose Midnight Lycanroc is real and Zoroark is the last Pokemon, disguising itself as Umbreon. Our final battle could be Zoroark vs Melmetal.
 

RandomAce

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Anyone else still awake?

While we wait for the Direct, anyone want to try and predict how details of the Alola League finals will go down in the anime? Just for bragging rights. It'll give us something to discuss to help pass the time.
Mostly the same as Cosmic77, but I’ll add on a bit of detail.

I see Midnight vs Melmetal coming close causing Midnight to enter his wild state, which will allow Midnight to win.

Then Dusk vs Midnight happens where Dusk is barely keeping up with Midnight. They trade blows but Midnight’s are much more powerful and Dusk gets severely weaker. Then as Midnight goes in for a final Devasting Drake, Dusk nullifies the attack and now entered the same state Midnight is in as well, with an extremely loud howl and red aura for dramatic effects. The playing field is even and Dusk is as ruthless as he’s ever been.
 

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That was definitely a more mellow Nintendo Direct but it kinda makes sense to have something a little more quaint after the blowout that was E3 this year. Animal Crossing undoubtedly stole the show, it's cool to see them take the series in a new direction.

Regarding Smash, it's pretty cool that we're getting Banjo now, especially since I thought he'd be a late September addition at best. Terry also looks pretty cool (especially his stage). I'm not overly familiar with him as a character and I'm curious to see how he's different from Ryu/Ken, but I was wrong about SNK being in Smash in general so I could be wrong again. Likewise, the Banjo presentation was pretty awesome, got some good Game Centre CX vibes from it.

Plus, more fighters! Hopefully, this lack of a definitive end of content will help keep tensions within the community down, as less subgroups feel that they have to fight each other. However, Sakurai's comment regarding adding more worlds to Smash is slightly worrying. Is every DLC character going to be Third Party, even with a season 2? It does seem that the general consensus in the community is these characters should be more Nintendo focused after the non-Nintendo characters took the spotlight of the first pass, so maybe this will be a chance to finally get a fair shake as a serious DLC character with the larger community?

Also, Sans got memed into Smash. Plus our first Pokemon costume with Team Rocket! Where's my X costume though Sakurai?
 

Guynamednelson

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I hate to say it, but with Terry being given the color blue rather than another shade of red, I believe in the Color Theory. On one hand, this can be good for Lycanroc as it can be given the colors orange or brown. On the other, I'm thinking we're already approaching "too late" status, unless Nintendo would prefer using a Pokemon they knew was already a hit.
 

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I hate to say it, but with Terry being given the color blue rather than another shade of red, I believe in the Color Theory. On one hand, this can be good for Lycanroc as it can be given the colors orange or brown. On the other, I'm thinking we're already approaching "too late" status, unless Nintendo would prefer using a Pokemon they knew was already a hit.
At this point a pokemon from sword and shield as dlc after february 2020 would be more likely.
Plus, we already have a pokemon representing generation 7.
 

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But we don't have a stage. Or music and spirits representing USUM. Or a good choice for gen 7.
Not having an alolan stage will puzzle and bother me for the rest of my days. Not sure about Incineroar not being a good choice. Not the best, but there's good in it.
Gen 2 however has the least representation out of them all (a clone of pikachu & only 1 song and it's old).
 
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Delzethin

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So...this is a bittersweet position to be in, isn't it?


The leak was as it seemed, and because of that, we're down to a single chance left before the torch is passed to the 8th generation. And yet, knowing there will be more DLC after the Pass is...still a relief, in a way. It means that, worst case scenario, we can still pass our own torch and there'll be someone to catch it. In a way, there're multiple characters who could be our successors, depending on what appeals to you: Zacian and Zamazenta are waiting for those who like the wolflike design and feral build (and most of us are also in that thread already), while if it's the earthbending your more into, maybe this second wave might give Isaac some semblance of a chance.

And yet...we may not be quite out of it yet. It's a long shot, but there's one scenario where things could still work in our favor:

- Sakurai pulled a repeat of Smash 4's DLC run and, despite seemingly implying the contrary back in November, left one spot open for a few months into development, reserved for a compelling new character that makes itself known by then.
- When the DLC team went to choose someone for the placeholder, there still wasn't anyone available due to unfortunate timing (development on Corrin appears to have started close to Fire Emblem Fates' Japanese release in late June, and the same timeframe this time may have been too early for even Three Houses and its end-of-July release).
- In need of a Plan B, Sakurai looks to the Pokémon anime instead, something we know he keeps an eye on, and takes a leap of faith on a character that, while losing relevance in the games, will reach its highest point of prominence in the anime at the perfect time.

Is this likely by any means? No, it requires several things to break our way all at once. But hey, wilder stuff's happened, right? And since if they did set a placeholder aside they'd have (potentially) had to pick someone before talk of doing a second wave ramped up, the choice would (potentially) have been made without being able to fall back on Gen 8.

Either way, it gives us something to talk about as we play out the rest of the schedule, so to speak, and see if the anime gives us a dramatic finish that resonates across the fandoms.


And speaking of which...we got details on the episode set for the 15th. And it's exactly what we'd hoped for:

Episode 1082: He's Born! The Alolan League Winner!

The finals ended up being a fight between Satoshi and Gladio. Satoshi's Melmetal got beaten by Silvady, but then Pikachu was sent out and defeated Silvady, and a battle between Pikachu and Zoroark began. Who will attain the glory of being the first ever champion of the Alola Pokémon League; Satoshi or Gladio?
Melmetal and Silvally open up the match, and Melmetal falls. Pikachu comes in, defeats Silvally, and unmasks Gladion's Zoroark. Notice who is left on both sides?

They're setting up a Lycanroc vs. Lycanroc showdown with the championship at stake.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Zacian and Zamazenta are waiting for those who like the wolflike design and feral build (and most of us are also in that thread already), while if it's the earthbending your more into, maybe this second wave might give Isaac some semblance of a chance.
I don't want Pokemon reps to be taken over by anthros, but it feels worthless to support a box legendary seeing as how they're always Poke Balls or hazards ever since Melee.

I do want Isaac though.
 

RileyXY1

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I think that getting another anthro fully evolved starter as a DLC character will only get people convinced that all future Pokemon newcomers will fall into that category.
 

Guynamednelson

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I think that getting another anthro fully evolved starter as a DLC character will only get people convinced that all future Pokemon newcomers will fall into that category.
I don't think they would do it again if attracting new demographics really is a concern.
 

Cosmic77

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And speaking of which...we got details on the episode set for the 15th. And it's exactly what we'd hoped for:



Melmetal and Silvally open up the match, and Melmetal falls. Pikachu comes in, defeats Silvally, and unmasks Gladion's Zoroark. Notice who is left on both sides?

They're setting up a Lycanroc vs. Lycanroc showdown with the championship at stake.
Yep. I called the Zoroark shenanigans.

Still, that really sucks for Melmetal. Ash gets a mythical to compete in the league, and no sooner than it evolves, it gets defeated. They Lycanroc vs Lycanroc battle sounds hype, but Ash has some ground to make up. Zoroark won't go down without a fight, and Pikachu has already taken some hits from what it sounds like.

It's up in the air.

I don't want Pokemon reps to be taken over by anthros, but it feels worthless to support a box legendary seeing as how they're always Poke Balls or hazards ever since Melee.
Patterns are meant to be broken. We got Robin over Chrom just because Sakurai wanted to mix things up and try something different.
 

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I don't want Pokemon reps to be taken over by anthros, but it feels worthless to support a box legendary seeing as how they're always Poke Balls or hazards ever since Melee.

I do want Isaac though.
To be fair, :ultgreninja: isn't necessarily what I'd call an anthro. Sure, he has a humanoid body type, but his general movements are pretty froglike.
 

Cosmic77

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To be fair, :ultgreninja: isn't necessarily what I'd call an anthro. Sure, he has a humanoid body type, but his general movements are pretty froglike.
A better term would be "biped". Doesn't necessarily have to have a body similar to a human's, but Sakurai does have a tendency to choose Pokemon who run and walk on two legs.

So far, Ivysaur is the only exception, unless you count Pikachu and Pichu.
 

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A better term would be "biped". Doesn't necessarily have to have a body similar to a human's, but Sakurai does have a tendency to choose Pokemon who run and walk on two legs.

So far, Ivysaur is the only exception, unless you count Pikachu and Pichu.
I wouldn't exactly consider "biped" the right term to use either, since I have plenty of Pokemon I'd be find with that stand up on two feet but still have less humanoid builds than :ultlucario::ultgreninja::ultincineroar:.
 

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I wouldn't exactly consider "biped" the right term to use either, since I have plenty of Pokemon I'd be find with that stand up on two feet but still have less humanoid builds than :ultlucario::ultgreninja::ultincineroar:.
I don't really think being anthro has to be a bad thing. And personally, Incineroar is the only one who feels like an full on anthro Feline. Greninja passes as a semi-anthro imo and Lucario is the same.
I get it's because pokemon is about fictional animals/creatures of all kinds and not all of them are on 2 legs, but i feel some other series suffer similarity issues:

-Zelda has 3 versions of 1 character.
-Nearly all of Fire Emblem's cast uses swords and all except 1 have counters.
-I'd even go out on a limb and say Mario doesn't have much variety either, to a lesser extent: with 2.3 versions of Mario (Luigi is distinct enough) and 2 peaches.
-Star Fox is literally 3 differing versions of the same base moveset.

I know it's very general, but many of the big series have repitition. And i can see how much easier it would be to develop a character standing on 2 legs. Plus I feel all 3 of the pokemon mentioned are very distinct enough to stand out from eachother.
Greninja definitely feels more frog-like than human like. Lucario and Incineroar i'll give you their human-like combat traits.
 

RandomAce

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So...this is a bittersweet position to be in, isn't it?


The leak was as it seemed, and because of that, we're down to a single chance left before the torch is passed to the 8th generation. And yet, knowing there will be more DLC after the Pass is...still a relief, in a way. It means that, worst case scenario, we can still pass our own torch and there'll be someone to catch it. In a way, there're multiple characters who could be our successors, depending on what appeals to you: Zacian and Zamazenta are waiting for those who like the wolflike design and feral build (and most of us are also in that thread already), while if it's the earthbending your more into, maybe this second wave might give Isaac some semblance of a chance.

And yet...we may not be quite out of it yet. It's a long shot, but there's one scenario where things could still work in our favor:

- Sakurai pulled a repeat of Smash 4's DLC run and, despite seemingly implying the contrary back in November, left one spot open for a few months into development, reserved for a compelling new character that makes itself known by then.
- When the DLC team went to choose someone for the placeholder, there still wasn't anyone available due to unfortunate timing (development on Corrin appears to have started close to Fire Emblem Fates' Japanese release in late June, and the same timeframe this time may have been too early for even Three Houses and its end-of-July release).
- In need of a Plan B, Sakurai looks to the Pokémon anime instead, something we know he keeps an eye on, and takes a leap of faith on a character that, while losing relevance in the games, will reach its highest point of prominence in the anime at the perfect time.

Is this likely by any means? No, it requires several things to break our way all at once. But hey, wilder stuff's happened, right? And since if they did set a placeholder aside they'd have (potentially) had to pick someone before talk of doing a second wave ramped up, the choice would (potentially) have been made without being able to fall back on Gen 8.

Either way, it gives us something to talk about as we play out the rest of the schedule, so to speak, and see if the anime gives us a dramatic finish that resonates across the fandoms.


And speaking of which...we got details on the episode set for the 15th. And it's exactly what we'd hoped for:



Melmetal and Silvally open up the match, and Melmetal falls. Pikachu comes in, defeats Silvally, and unmasks Gladion's Zoroark. Notice who is left on both sides?

They're setting up a Lycanroc vs. Lycanroc showdown with the championship at stake.
I have a different idea with how Lycanroc can be the final challenger.

Mainly, it has to do with the fact that future DLC fighters were announced. I think that maybe Lycanroc could have been chosen normally and maybe as a sorta deal breaker between all the third parties and a last push for Gen 7, however, considering reveal schedules have been changed, Lycanroc was pushed until the tail end of the Fighter Pass in order to reveal all the big players first. I feel like it’s important to note that future DLC was revealed prior to Fighter 5 being revealed. I feel that future DLC was supposed to be revealed later until around the last challenger pack release or after, but it could be possible that Fighter 5 isn’t really a character people have been pushing for or expecting, and assured that Fighter 5 isn’t the last DLC character in order to lift off some of the potential backlash.

Honestly, I wasn’t so sure how Lycanroc could be Fighter 5, but seeing how more fighters were confirmed after the pass and with Terry being released in November. I think it’s possible that Lycanroc could get revealed in Terry’s presentation (or Smash Direct) just right before Sword and Shield. It’s still gonna require a lot of good circumstances and timing.

In regards to Sword and Shield, barely anything has been shown in that game still, and that’s especially true for new Pokémon. So far, Obstagoon is really the only new Pokémon I slightly like, but I’m more interested in potential Galar Pokémon lines. I sadly still haven’t found anyone from the next generation I would support yet.

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Regarding the anime, I’m surprised the next two episodes have already been leaked, or something. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen during the last episode.

However, YES! Lycanroc finals are confirmed! Well not yet, but the set up seems pretty clear. Even if either Pikachu or Zoroark win, I doubt they would leave one of their Pokémon on their team to not be used at all. Specifically for Ash, it would actually make even LESS sense if Pikachu ends ups taking the win, considering how much development was put into Dusk, just for him to not get used at all in the finals...

Hopefully, but it seems that the writers are making sure to make it a serious battle, so I’m not too worried.
 

Delzethin

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I don't want Pokemon reps to be taken over by anthros, but it feels worthless to support a box legendary seeing as how they're always Poke Balls or hazards ever since Melee.

I do want Isaac though.
Patterns are meant to be broken. We got Robin over Chrom just because Sakurai wanted to mix things up and try something different.
We've had a few prior examples where one character got chosen over another, and...it's not been very consistent, actually.

Brawl: Wolf chosen and Krystal shelved because the former was easier to make at the time.
Smash 4: Chrom shelved due to feeling too similar to existing characters, Robin greenlit because of sheer uniqueness. Chrom finds a way into the next entry as an echo fighter.
Ultimate: Incineroar chosen over Decidueye for the apparent sake of putting a token wrestler on the roster (and possibly also being easier to make), having its more distinct traits ignored in order to play the wrestling shtick more stereotypically.

And then there's Piranha Plant, who was picked for its own ability to do stuff no other fighter can. So...we've seen it go in both directions for varying reasons.

I have a different idea with how Lycanroc can be the final challenger.

Mainly, it has to do with the fact that future DLC fighters were announced. I think that maybe Lycanroc could have been chosen normally and maybe as a sorta deal breaker between all the third parties and a last push for Gen 7, however, considering reveal schedules have been changed, Lycanroc was pushed until the tail end of the Fighter Pass in order to reveal all the big players first. I feel like it’s important to note that future DLC was revealed prior to Fighter 5 being revealed. I feel that future DLC was supposed to be revealed later until around the last challenger pack release or after, but it could be possible that Fighter 5 isn’t really a character people have been pushing for or expecting, and assured that Fighter 5 isn’t the last DLC character in order to lift off some of the potential backlash.

Honestly, I wasn’t so sure how Lycanroc could be Fighter 5, but seeing how more fighters were confirmed after the pass and with Terry being released in November. I think it’s possible that Lycanroc could get revealed in Terry’s presentation (or Smash Direct) just right before Sword and Shield. It’s still gonna require a lot of good circumstances and timing.
So you believe the reason they confirmed more DLC so soon is because Fighter #5 may be someone smaller as a sort of breather? It's possible, though there're other things that'd explain it. For example, maybe they've been aware of how the fandom gets more on edge and more willing to go at each other's throats the closer things get to the end, and wanted to show that the next reveal will not be the end before things get any worse. I don't know which explanation is more likely.

There are other things to consider as well. On one hand, this wave's order of reveals was probably figured out well before talk of doing another wave got serious. On the other, we know Joker, Hero, and Banjo were in development at roughly the same time, meaning work on Terry and #5 would've started later, possibly at a point where Season 2 talk had started and they had the freedom to choose the order this wave's final two would happen in. And a possible Smash Direct that'd already be talking about a known newcomer could be a place to reveal someone lower key.

Hm...
 

Cosmic77

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First half of the finals aired today. Wasn't that bad actually. I was a little worried, given who was writing the episode.

Anyway, not much to say. Seems like it's mostly playing out how we'd expect it to. Though I would like to point out that all the teasers and previews are saying things along the lines of, "Will Ash finally win his first Pokemon league?" As far as I'm aware, they haven't done anything like that before, not even with Kalos.

Even if Lycanroc doesn't get in Smash, at least we're looking at a scenario where it ends up being the Pokemon who nets Ash his first league victory. That's something that hasn't been achieved by any other Pokemon in over 20 years.
 
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RandomAce

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Yup, it’s confirmed, Dusk Lycanroc vs Midnight Lycanroc is indeed the climax of the league, and the animation quality in those episode(s) looks like it‘s not a battle to miss!

First half of the finals aired today. Wasn't that bad actually. I was a little worried, given who was writing the episode.

Anyway, not much to say. Seems like it's mostly playing out how we'd expect it to. Though I would like to point out that all the teasers and previews are saying things along the lines of, "Will Ash finally win his first Pokemon league?" As far as I'm aware, they haven't done anything like that before, not even with Kalos.

Even if Lycanroc doesn't get in Smash, at least we're looking at a scenario where it ends up being the Pokemon who nets Ash his first league victory. That's something that hasn't been achieved by any other Pokemon in over 20 years.
Lycanroc winning the league would be a best case scenario, and would make Lycanroc remembered as the Pokémon that won Ash’s first league for years to come.

But, it goes to show that, if anyone had any doubts, Lycanroc is indeed one of Pokemon’s biggest characters.
 
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Delzethin

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Speaking of the anime, within the past few days we've learned the titles of a couple upcoming episodes. But it's which titles we've learned, and which we haven't, that raise some questions:

9/15 - Episode 1082: He's Born! The Alolan League Winner!
9/22 - Episode 1083: Guzzlord Attacks! Operation Z-Move!!
9/29 - Episode 1084: (TBA)
10/6 - Episode 1085: Burn with Passion! Get Filled with Intensity! A Full Battle!!!
As it turns out, the finals are being followed by one last hurrah for the Ultra Recon Squad, and the exhibition match between Kukui and the League winner isn't happening until October. Interestingly enough, the phrasing of the latter episode has apparently been used in past sagas for when full 6v6 battles have happened, which could imply Ash will get a 6th party member by then. I've seen some people suggest he'll bring in reserves from past regions for a "true final battle", but those theories seem to be banking on the Gen 8 anime being a full reboot and honestly the more likely outcome is Poipole coming back when Guzzlord crashes the party.

Speaking of the Gen 8 anime, though, they're supposed to be going into detail about it on the 29th...which just so happens to be the episode they're keeping quiet on. Could something happen there that sets up the next saga?
 
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Cosmic77

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Speaking of the anime, within the past few days we've learned the titles of a couple upcoming episodes. But it's which titles we've learned, and which we haven't, that raise some questions:



As it turns out, the finals are being followed by one last hurrah for the Ultra Recon Squad, and the exhibition match between Kukui and the League winner isn't happening until October. Interestingly enough, the phrasing of the latter episode has apparently been used in past sagas for when full 6v6 battles have happened, which could imply Ash will get a 6th party member by then. I've seen some people suggest he'll bring in reserves from past regions for a "true final battle", but those theories seem to be banking on the Gen 8 anime being a full reboot and honestly the more likely outcome is Poipole coming back when Guzzlord crashes the party.

Speaking of the Gen 8 anime, though, they're supposed to be going into detail about it on the 29th...which just so happens to be the episode they're keeping quiet on. Could something happen there that sets up the next saga?
I don't want to assume anything, but even when you don't even bother looking at the TBA episode, the fact that an entire episode is being dedicated to the Masked Royale battle (and possibly a second) is pretty telling.

Plus, Torracat has never used it's new Z-move after Ash got a Firinium Z crystal.
 

Delzethin

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Alright, so while we wait for the fated finale, here's a question:

If there was one new Lycanroc-related thing we were to somehow get in Sword & Shield, what would you want it to be? A new form, something tying into region-specific features, even just movepool additions, whatever is important enough to make your personal wishlist.
 
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RidleyKraid187

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Alright, so while we wait for the fated finale, here's a question:

If there was one new Lycanroc-related thing we were to somehow get in Sword & Shield, what would you want it to be? A new form, something tying into region-specific features, even just movepool additions, whatever is important enough to make your personal wishlist.
Probably a special new form, kinda in the vein of Ash-Greninja. Something to keep Lycanroc relevant in this new era of Pokémon.
 

RandomAce

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Alright, so while we wait for the fated finale, here's a question:

If there was one new Lycanroc-related thing we were to somehow get in Sword & Shield, what would you want it to be? A new form, something tying into region-specific features, even just movepool additions, whatever is important enough to make your personal wishlist.
I would be fine with giving Lycanroc Gigantamaxes. I’m not really sure about new Lycanroc forms. I feel like that may complicate some things in terms of which can get in Smash and whatnot, although I suppose Galarian Lycanroc forms could be pretty interesting.

Would also like to see Lycanroc get some buffs to be stronger in the meta. Maybe give Midnight and Dusk more unique signature moves like what Midday got with Accelerock.
 
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