Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

LukeRNG

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Seeing some custom stages made gave me an idea, we could make a stage concept for a potential alola stage in terms of layout (and maybe some gimmicks).

In fact i already have a mystery dungeon concept for a stage (or 2 in this case, with the help of stage morph). (This would be easier if i had my switch already).

The first stage would have the Rainbow Cruise background to resemble a town/village from the series (let's go with treasure town), with a rather simple layout.
The second stage would have the Find Mii Background and the layout would resemble the peak of temporal tower.
Of course the only thing missing would be music.

As for alola, i could see a similar deal with 2 stages:
The first would have either Magicant or Find Mii background to resemble vast pony canyon while the second would have either Mario Galaxy or Final Destination background to resemble ultra space. And if we want to resemble ultra necrozma's dimension then Luigi's Mansion would work great.
 
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Delzethin

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So, got an idea for another detail they could have some fun with. You know how Joker's character portrait changes when he summons Arsene to show him with his mask off? What if we could do something similar? Like a Midday + Midnight concept changing to put focus on whichever form is currently fighting, or a Dusk concept changing to have its eyes glow when its berserker mode is active?

Seeing some custom stages made gave me an idea, we could make a stage concept for a potential alola stage in terms of layout (and maybe some gimmicks).

...

As for alola, i could see a similar deal with 2 stages:
The first would have either Magicant or Find Mii background to resemble vast pony canyon while the second would have either Mario Galaxy or Final Destination background to resemble ultra space. And if we want to resemble ultra necrozma's dimension then Luigi's Mansion would work great.
Using the new stage builder as a proof-of-concept for what actual new stages could be like? That'd actually be a really good means to sell our ideas better. Though my own idea for an Ultra Space stage is too complex for a single Stage Builder project, I think, since it involves using wormholes to travel to different locations in a way that'd function like the Stadium stages or Kalos League...
 
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Garteam

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Today I had the honour of discussing Pokemon with my six-year old cousin and introducing him to the world of Smash. Here's some of his wise observations:

-His three favourite Pokemon were Marshadow (because "it is the strongest Pokemon"), Gladion's Silvally (because it can change types and was able to take down Alakazam and Kommo-o), and Ash's Lycanroc (because it is a special, undiscovered Lycanroc).

-When I asked him what Lycanroc's most powerful attack was, he responded Continental Crush.

-When I showed him Smash, the first character he played as was Greninja. He kinda struggled with him, but was able to make his way through a level 1 CPU my jabbing and Water Shurikening him to death.

-The second character he played was Incineroar. He was his second favourite to play, as "his spin move is really good".

-The third character he played was Mewtwo. His jaw dropped when he found out that Mewtwo was in the game. However, he was kinda
underwhelmed him, but he did like his Shadow Ball.

-The fourth character he played as Pokemon Trainer. This was his favourite character, as he really liked having the ability to switch his Pokemon on the fly.

-He laughed when I picked Pichu so... I'm guessing he didn't see that coming.

-I asked which Pokemon they should add next, and he replied Marshadow (and no, I didn't have the heart to break it to him that his favourite Pokemon is in Pokeball purgatory).
 

RandomAce

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Today I had the honour of discussing Pokemon with my six-year old cousin and introducing him to the world of Smash. Here's some of his wise observations:

-His three favourite Pokemon were Marshadow (because "it is the strongest Pokemon"), Gladion's Silvally (because it can change types and was able to take down Alakazam and Kommo-o), and Ash's Lycanroc (because it is a special, undiscovered Lycanroc).

-When I asked him what Lycanroc's most powerful attack was, he responded Continental Crush.

-When I showed him Smash, the first character he played as was Greninja. He kinda struggled with him, but was able to make his way through a level 1 CPU my jabbing and Water Shurikening him to death.

-The second character he played was Incineroar. He was his second favourite to play, as "his spin move is really good".

-The third character he played was Mewtwo. His jaw dropped when he found out that Mewtwo was in the game. However, he was kinda
underwhelmed him, but he did like his Shadow Ball.

-The fourth character he played as Pokemon Trainer. This was his favourite character, as he really liked having the ability to switch his Pokemon on the fly.

-He laughed when I picked Pichu so... I'm guessing he didn't see that coming.

-I asked which Pokemon they should add next, and he replied Marshadow (and no, I didn't have the heart to break it to him that his favourite Pokemon is in Pokeball purgatory).
He’s going to learn it the hard way then, when he summons a Marshadow one day. :troll:

Seems he’s a big Pokémon fan since he seemed to only play the Pokémon characters.
 

Garteam

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He’s going to learn it the hard way then, when he summons a Marshadow one day. :troll:

Seems he’s a big Pokémon fan since he seemed to only play the Pokémon characters.
Although the only Pokemon game he's touched is Go, he's a massive fan. Every time I've visited him he was either binging the anime on Netflix or reviewing his card collection. I've gotta admit, I see a good deal of myself at his age in him.
 

GlaceonGD

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Today I had the honour of discussing Pokemon with my six-year old cousin and introducing him to the world of Smash. Here's some of his wise observations:

-His three favourite Pokemon were Marshadow (because "it is the strongest Pokemon"), Gladion's Silvally (because it can change types and was able to take down Alakazam and Kommo-o), and Ash's Lycanroc (because it is a special, undiscovered Lycanroc).

-When I asked him what Lycanroc's most powerful attack was, he responded Continental Crush.

-When I showed him Smash, the first character he played as was Greninja. He kinda struggled with him, but was able to make his way through a level 1 CPU my jabbing and Water Shurikening him to death.

-The second character he played was Incineroar. He was his second favourite to play, as "his spin move is really good".

-The third character he played was Mewtwo. His jaw dropped when he found out that Mewtwo was in the game. However, he was kinda
underwhelmed him, but he did like his Shadow Ball.

-The fourth character he played as Pokemon Trainer. This was his favourite character, as he really liked having the ability to switch his Pokemon on the fly.

-He laughed when I picked Pichu so... I'm guessing he didn't see that coming.

-I asked which Pokemon they should add next, and he replied Marshadow (and no, I didn't have the heart to break it to him that his favourite Pokemon is in Pokeball purgatory).
Nice to see that you've taken the initiative to introduce him to the game, and I see that he and I share something in common; our favorites are both in pokeball purgatory. I don't exactly agree with his favorites of course because everyone has their own opinions he's dead to me because eevee isn't in the top three but it seems he at least has an interest in lycanroc which is pretty cool. Maybe he'd be excited to see it in smash if we get in for DLC, though I do feel bad for him when he inevitably discovers that his favorite won't be getting in.
 

Delzethin

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Today I had the honour of discussing Pokemon with my six-year old cousin and introducing him to the world of Smash. Here's some of his wise observations:

-His three favourite Pokemon were Marshadow (because "it is the strongest Pokemon"), Gladion's Silvally (because it can change types and was able to take down Alakazam and Kommo-o), and Ash's Lycanroc (because it is a special, undiscovered Lycanroc).

-When I asked him what Lycanroc's most powerful attack was, he responded Continental Crush.

-When I showed him Smash, the first character he played as was Greninja. He kinda struggled with him, but was able to make his way through a level 1 CPU my jabbing and Water Shurikening him to death.

-The second character he played was Incineroar. He was his second favourite to play, as "his spin move is really good".

-The third character he played was Mewtwo. His jaw dropped when he found out that Mewtwo was in the game. However, he was kinda
underwhelmed him, but he did like his Shadow Ball.

-The fourth character he played as Pokemon Trainer. This was his favourite character, as he really liked having the ability to switch his Pokemon on the fly.

-He laughed when I picked Pichu so... I'm guessing he didn't see that coming.

-I asked which Pokemon they should add next, and he replied Marshadow (and no, I didn't have the heart to break it to him that his favourite Pokemon is in Pokeball purgatory).
You know, for all that gets discussed, Smash's hardcore speculators can often...overlook the quieter side of Nintendo fans. I've said a lot about how popularity is over-relied on as a proving point, but a lot of the time it gets narrowed down even further, to "Do the most vocal fans bring up this character a lot?"

But we're just one piece of a much larger fanbase, especially with how Smash is a massive crossover of everything Nintendo and sometimes other companies as well. Sometimes it's worth seeing who the more casual and quieter side likes as well--not even who they think is likely, just characters they like.

And in our case, it can be reassuring, a reminder that this character we've been championing for so long is as recognized as we've claimed.
 
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You know, for all that gets discussed, Smash's hardcore speculators can often...overlook the quieter side of Nintendo fans. I've said a lot about how popularity is over-relied on as a proving point, but a lot of the time it gets narrowed down even further, to "Do the most vocal fans bring up this character a lot?"

But we're just one piece of a much larger fanbase, especially with how Smash is a massive crossover of everything Nintendo and sometimes other companies as well. Sometimes it's worth seeing who the more casual and quieter side likes as well--not even who they think is likely, just characters they like.

And in our case, it can be reassuring, a reminder that this character we've been championing for so long is as recognized as we've claimed.
So true. It has always baffled me why people are so quick to overlook characters from the more mainstream franchises out there. It was only last year that there was a huge wave of belief that Pokemon, of all things, was not getting a newcomer yet a forgotten game from the 80's absolutely was because "Sakurai always has a Retro Rep and there's no way he'd skip that." I think Smash fans give themselves too much credit, while supporting the core fanbase is good, as is throwing in some surprise characters not everyone is familiar with, it isn't the be-all-end-all and including characters that the general populace can actually recognize is a must for the series to grow.
 

Cosmic77

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You know, for all that gets discussed, Smash's hardcore speculators can often...overlook the quieter side of Nintendo fans. I've said a lot about how popularity is over-relied on as a proving point, but a lot of the time it gets narrowed down even further, to "Do the most vocal fans bring up this character a lot?"

But we're just one piece of a much larger fanbase, especially with how Smash is a massive crossover of everything Nintendo and sometimes other companies as well. Sometimes it's worth seeing who the more casual and quieter side likes as well--not even who they think is likely, just characters they like.

And in our case, it can be reassuring, a reminder that this character we've been championing for so long is as recognized as we've claimed.
So true. It has always baffled me why people are so quick to overlook characters from the more mainstream franchises out there. It was only last year that there was a huge wave of belief that Pokemon, of all things, was not getting a newcomer yet a forgotten game from the 80's absolutely was because "Sakurai always has a Retro Rep and there's no way he'd skip that." I think Smash fans give themselves too much credit, while supporting the core fanbase is good, as is throwing in some surprise characters not everyone is familiar with, it isn't the be-all-end-all and including characters that the general populace can actually recognize is a must for the series to grow.
I never seem to know if I'm in the majority or minority for thinking this, but I prefer adding multiple, highly recognizable characters from popular, iconic franchises as opposed to adding extremely niche characters who only the rabid Smash fans would recognize.

I mean, even though I've never found the same appeal in most niche characters, I'm not trying to discourage Geno and Isaac fans or anything when I say this. It's just that I find that certain franchises like Mario and Pokemon are far more successful at bringing everyone together than someone who's name is first heard of through dedicated Smash speculation.
 
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I never seem to know if I'm in the majority or minority for thinking this, but I prefer adding multiple, highly recognizable characters from popular, iconic franchises as opposed to adding extremely niche characters who only the rabid Smash fans would recognize.

I mean, even though I've never found the same appeal in most niche characters, I'm not trying to discourage Geno and Isaac fans or anything when I say this. It's just that I find that certain franchises like Mario and Pokemon are far more successful at bringing everyone together than someone who's name is first heard of through dedicated Smash speculation.
I would say that you're in the general majority, but not as much when narrowed down to the Smash community itself. I think, as with any fanbase, is that the most die-hard members out there tend to forget they aren't the only one who enjoys this, and with something as wide of an appeal as Smash, it's only logical that they cast the widest net to bring in as many people, which means household names get the priority. Unknown faces are certainly exciting, and I'm all for getting a handful in each time, but the "Meat and Potatoes" of Smash will always be the All Stars that the general populace are familiar with.

And it turns out, it was always about unique movesets. Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant fall under the same category as all the retro characters because of this.
I can see a case for that, though it feels strange considering Wii Fit as retro. I was mostly referring to those who were claiming the Retro pick was limited to NES-era games and trying to say we wont get a new Pokemon but will get something like Mach Rider because tradition.
 

Guynamednelson

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I never seem to know if I'm in the majority or minority for thinking this, but I prefer adding multiple, highly recognizable characters from popular, iconic franchises as opposed to adding extremely niche characters who only the rabid Smash fans would recognize.

I mean, even though I've never found the same appeal in most niche characters, I'm not trying to discourage Geno and Isaac fans or anything when I say this. It's just that I find that certain franchises like Mario and Pokemon are far more successful at bringing everyone together than someone who's name is first heard of through dedicated Smash speculation.
I'm not sure where I stand:
  • I'd prefer Banjo over Steve
  • Hate how Isaac is still an AT
  • Believe Sakurai's reason for Takamaru being an AT is now invalid and he should be playable
  • Yet I don't complain about how Isabelle is playable instead, believing it to be fully understandable
  • I don't want Ninten or Black Shadow just to fill out quotas. They also shouldn't put in a grass starter or Gothitelle for the quotas either.
  • Speaking of which, rep numbers be damned, I think Pokemon representation is less complete than Yoshi/DK/Metroid/Mother/F-Zero.
  • I think they should acknowledge how Mimikyu and/or Lycanroc is more popular among Pokemon fans than Incineroar
  • I'm not interested in Geno let alone filling Smash with all sorts of SMRPG pandering (how the **** can someone complain about 10 Pokemon when they want this)
 
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RandomAce

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I’m always in the middle when it comes to the “casual” and “core” wants.

I guess that may simply be my bias become some of my most wanted fit both, but I think it’s a smart move to try to appeal both sides. Sure the “casuals” make up a far majority of the sales and overall popularity, but it’s the “core” fanbase that keeps Smash being the household name that it is for years to come. It’s how Melee lives up to 17 years past it’s original launch, competitive Smash being acknowledged more and more and become one of the most competitive games. The ballot only had around 1.2 million votes, which is pretty small compared to overall sales, but it was how “Everyone is Here” came to be along with fan favorites that clearly worked well as Ultimate is the highest selling Smash game. I’m sure the core fanbase will be around to keep Ultimate alive even after all the DLC is released and there after.

Sure, you can have you’re common more popular characters like Isabelle get in, but it’s nice to see a more nicher face like Isaac join in and open him to those people who haven’t heard of him, and satisfy those who have been rallying for him and GS for over a decade, as well as several others who fall in a similar, and those who seem to land right in the middle.

So let’s not try to discredit either side. It’s clear that Smash caters to both and isn’t one sided (as much as some think DLC will go).

  • I think they should acknowledge how Mimikyu and/or Lycanroc is more popular among Pokemon fans than Incineroar.
Let’s not discredit Incineroar too much. Incineroar is still generally accepted among Pokémon fans, and Smash fans seem to grow to like him as well.

But that doesn’t mean Lycanroc isn’t popular and can’t do something similar. If done right, I think Sakurai can make Lycanroc interesting to make it (or they) popular with Smash fans as well.
 
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Garteam

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I don't think catering towards more obscure/niche tastes is necessarily a bad thing, as many of the super popular characters that would attract the general public are already in the roster. Straying from the path of what would appeal the most to a general audience is how we got characters like :ultness:, :ultfalcon:, and :ultmarth: in the game. While making sure that the most recognizable franchises are well-represented is important in regards to getting people in the door, that mostly comes down to making sure that the vets are accurate to the public's current perception of those characters. Making sure :ultmario: and :ultlink: are instantly recognizable is much more important than getting Waluigi or Skull Kid in when appealing to a more general audience. The arguable exceptions to this trend is Pokemon and Fire Emblem, as their revolving door casts dictate that staying relevant means putting in new characters, rather than polishing old ones.



If you want a good example of a roster that tries too hard to play to a general audience, Jump Force is one. Rather than diving into Shonen Jump's 50 year history, Bandai instead opted to focus exclusively on their most iconic series, leading to a lot of interesting options getting absolutely no play. Even among series that did make it in the roster, the emphasis was placed on series that were thought to sell the game, so many manga just got their main hero and villain. As such, this created a bland roster where many of the characters felt incredibly samey in terms of play style and general themes.



However, where I think Smash fanbase has started to trip over itself in this topic is admitting how popular their character is among the general population. I think it's because much of the DLC discussion has been geared towards third parties and being "iconic" has been a major criterion for most third parties throughout Smash speculation, but every fanbase has been trying to build a case that their character is a name that's as large as :ultsonic: or :ultryu:. While some fanbases have done a good job demonstrating that their character is recognizable through polls and general influence in other pieces of evidence, others have merely said "Well, we're really popular on Smashboards, so we have to be popular among the general public!". The problem with this thinking is that Smashboards is far too homogenized to be a good representative of everyone who will play Smash. Generally, members of Smashboards are between their mid-teens and early thirties, live in english-speaking countries, have been playing video games throughout much of their lives, and have some level of affiliation to Nintendo as a brand. This creates a false sense of general popularity among characters who are popular for people who fit this demographic, while creating a false of general unpopularity for those who are not popular among this demographic.
 
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Delzethin

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However, where I think Smash fanbase has started to trip over itself in this topic is admitting how popular their character is among the general population. I think it's because much of the DLC discussion has been geared towards third parties and being "iconic" has been a major criterion for most third parties throughout Smash speculation, but every fanbase has been trying to build a case that their character is a name that's as large as :ultsonic: or :ultryu:. While some fanbases have done a good job demonstrating that their character is recognizable through polls and general influence in other pieces of evidence, others have merely said "Well, we're really popular on Smashboards, so we have to be popular among the general public!". The problem with this thinking is that Smashboards is far too homogenized to be a good representative of everyone who will play Smash. Generally, members of Smashboards are between their mid-teens and early thirties, live in english-speaking countries, have been playing video games throughout much of their lives, and have some level of affiliation to Nintendo as a brand. This creates a false sense of general popularity among characters who are popular for people who fit this demographic, while creating a false of general unpopularity for those who are not popular among this demographic.
And so we've reached a point where every support base feels compelled to prove their character is popular enough to "deserve" a chance, while speculators play gatekeeper with any they feel aren't important enough to listen to. Even though popularity has always been an inconsistent thing when it comes to newcomers. Even though out of the two DLC characters we've had so far, one :ultpiranha: was apparently chosen for uniqueness first and foremost, and we don't know what aspects factored into the other :ultjoker:, though he is running with more of a traditional super mode gimmick that we hadn't seen Smash do before.

Of course, there are those rumors of Persona 5 getting a Switch port, but we don't know how that factored in yet, if at all. The evidence so far is insufficient, and so we need to wait until we know more to say anything definitive. I've seen people decide Joker's inclusion in Smash must be meant to market P5S, but there are other lines of thought that'd still pair up with the big picture. Perhaps P5 getting a Switch port was what made Joker a viable option in the first place, for example.

Though...good luck explaining that if your audience trusts their gut so much that they believe they already know what must've happened. To someone who acts on instincts, anyone who waits and considers all options first looks like they're in denial of something "obvious"...which is one of several reasons why so many people around these boards butt heads...
 
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Guynamednelson

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Let’s not discredit Incineroar too much. Incineroar is still generally accepted among Pokémon fans, and Smash fans seem to grow to like him as well.
"I think they should acknowledge how Mimikyu and/or Lycanroc became a fan favorite more quickly than Incineroar."

Better?
and we don't know what aspects factored into the other :ultjoker:, though he is running with more of a traditional super mode gimmick that we hadn't seen Smash do before.

Of course, there are those rumors of Persona 5 getting a Switch port, but we don't know how that factored in yet, if at all. The evidence so far is insufficient, and so we need to wait until we know more to say anything definitive. I've seen people decide Joker's inclusion in Smash must be meant to market P5S, but there are other lines of thought that'd still pair up with the big picture. Perhaps P5 getting a Switch port was what made Joker a viable option in the first place, for example.
Keep in mind, Sakurai has said he loved Persona 5.
 

RandomAce

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"I think they should acknowledge how Mimikyu and/or Lycanroc became a fan favorite more quickly than Incineroar."

Better?

Keep in mind, Sakurai has said he loved Persona 5.
You’re still trying to push a character over another and that isn’t necessarily a good thing.

Just saying how popular Lycanroc has become throughout Gen 7’s lifecycle is already enough.
 
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RandomAce

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Sakurai isn't choosing the newcomers though. Nintendo is.

Unless he lied, the extent of Sakurai's control over the DLC is basically, "I think/don't think I can make a moveset with this character."
Joker’s inclusion being either from Sakurai or Nintendo is very iffy.

Sakurai clearly likes Persona 5 as he’s played the game before as seen how Persona was treated in this DLC pack, and some of Ultimate’s UI seems to be inspired by Persona 5 as well. There was also mentions that Sakurai himself went to Atlus for Joker.

We don’t really know how Nintendo is going with the upcoming DLC, and how Sakurai exactly fits in the equation, as Joker seems to show that Sakurai may have more leverage than some people thought.

I have a feeling it’s less, “oh Sakurai is doing everything based on what Nintendo says” and more “Sakurai, his team, and Nintendo are working together on who they should add”.
 

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A lot of people think character selection has always been exclusively Sakurai, but it's likely that others have been involved in some capacity. While Sakurai is the main visionary and has by far the most impact in who gets into Smash, game development is a collaborative effort with many direct and indirect moving pieces. I think if Sakurai picked a character that Nintendo really didn't want to get into Smash, they would probably put their foot down say no. Hell, it was the dev team that convinced Sakurai to pursue development of Corrin when he was on a fence over a new Fire Emblem character.

Where things get kinda dicey are the relationship between Nintendo and Sakurai in this DLC cycle. Initially, it appeared that Nintendo gave Sakurai a shortlist, with him making his picks from that. However, Joker definitely seems like an odd pick from a Nintendo centric perspective. Perhaps things are more similar to the past than we initially thought?
 

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"I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan."
This doesn't make me think Nintendo simply went "Here's 5 characters. Go make them". Rather, there was a process of elimination involved based on whether or not Sakurai could make the character "dance". Or at least I hope characters were only eliminated because they couldn't "dance", and not because we already have a Gen 7 rep or a character is already a Poke Ball/AT/Spirit.
 

GlaceonGD

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"I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan."
This doesn't make me think Nintendo simply went "Here's 5 characters. Go make them". Rather, there was a process of elimination involved based on whether or not Sakurai could make the character "dance". Or at least I hope characters were only eliminated because they couldn't "dance", and not because we already have a Gen 7 rep or a character is already a Poke Ball/AT/Spirit.
I think that already having a gen 7 rep doesn't really hurt the chances of a second one, though unfortunately I think being a summon does. I'd love to be proven wrong but until I am lycanroc is still my main support for ultimate.
 

Guynamednelson

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Joker’s inclusion being either from Sakurai or Nintendo is very iffy.

Sakurai clearly likes Persona 5 as he’s played the game before as seen how Persona was treated in this DLC pack, and some of Ultimate’s UI seems to be inspired by Persona 5 as well. There was also mentions that Sakurai himself went to Atlus for Joker.

We don’t really know how Nintendo is going with the upcoming DLC, and how Sakurai exactly fits in the equation, as Joker seems to show that Sakurai may have more leverage than some people thought.

I have a feeling it’s less, “oh Sakurai is doing everything based on what Nintendo says” and more “Sakurai, his team, and Nintendo are working together on who they should add”.
Well, it definitely can't be to promote a Switch port now.
 

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So, the curtain has been raised on Persona 5: The Royal. Seems to be more than just a remastered release, with extra content in multiple places, new bosses to fight, potentially a new party member, a release date of October for Japan and 2020 for the rest of the world...

...and it's a PS4 exclusive.

Now, do I think this means the Persona 5 Switch rumors are shot to pieces? No, honestly. I've actually thought for a few weeks now that a different version than The Royal is being worked on for Switch. Whatever that entails, at least. Hopefully it's not just the base version with nothing extra. But for all intents and purposes, it seems like P5R is not the version we're likely to be getting.

Which brings me to something that's been on my mind since Joker's release, something about the leak it debunked:


This one was brought into question after Jack Frost was a complete no show from even the spirit list. I've seen theories as to how this one came to be--my personal theory right now is that it piggybacked off existing rumors at the time and fabricated some new stuff to cover up that fact. The bits about Joker and Slime appearing as Assist Trophies (or stage elements, or...it never was clear about that) was, presumably, among the added stuff.

However, there's one other thing here that hasn't popped up in any other set of rumors, something that hasn't been acknowledged much: This one claimed to have reasoning behind why the characters it reported were chosen. Among its claims were that Joker was meant to advertise P5R and a future Persona 5 fighting game, and that Erdrick was a ploy to make Dragon Quest more popular in Western markets. Ever since this set made the rounds in mid-December or so, I'd been trying to reconcile those claims with what we know of Sakurai's decision process, to figure out if anything had changed. I couldn't prove for certain that there would still be a place for another Plant-like pick, an unexpected first party character chosen first and foremost for what new stuff they brought to the roster.

But now that this set has been brought into question, and now that P5R in particular is (probably) not going to appear on the Switch, the reasoning given feels increasingly like another part that was tacked on to come off more legitimately. After all, why would Sakurai and Nintendo choose a character in order to, according to this thing, tie into a game that won't even be coming to a Nintendo system?

In other words, we're back to knowing nothing about why anyone was chosen other than that Piranha Plant was picked for its uniqueness. And that, I think, gives us that much more of a fighting chance.
 
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Cosmic77

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So, the curtain has been raised on Persona 5: The Royal. Seems to be more than just a remastered release, with extra content in multiple places, new bosses to fight, potentially a new party member, a release date of October for Japan and 2020 for the rest of the world...

...and it's a PS4 exclusive.
One thing we should remind ourselves is that development takes time. This announcement came almost immediately after Joker's release in Smash. Obviously the timing of this was probably intentional since Persona 5 is getting a lot of buzz, but it's possible this remastered game was in development long before Sakurai even came to Atlus. A Switch port might have not even been on the table yet.

But now that this set has been brought into question, and now that P5R in particular is (probably) not going to appear on the Switch, the reasoning given feels increasingly like another part that was tacked on to come off more legitimately. After all, why would Sakurai and Nintendo choose a character in order to, according to this thing, tie into a game that won't even be coming to a Nintendo system?
I seriously doubt anyone aside the development team, higher-ups, and possibly people involved with Nintendo's marketing legitimately know the reason why an unannounced character would be in Smash. Heck, we still don't know the reason behind some of the characters already on the roster.

Regardless of whether or not the reason(s) turn out to be true, I fail to see how a random leaker would have access to this sort of information so early.
 

Delzethin

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More Persona news has dropped! We finally know the identity of the mysterious "P5S", and it's...

A Warriors spinoff?


Well. I don't think anyone saw that coming.


So, that brings this strange and unusual batch of Persona rumors to a close for now, it seems. No port of P5 proper for the time being, though that could change in the long run. This also raises further questions about how Joker got here in the first place. At the very least, this means we can safely say cross-promotion was likely not a major factor in his inclusion, since using the Smash roster to advertise a spinoff of a very famous game would be...strange. Hopefully this means people will cool off on assuming the DLC picks must all be tie ins to upcoming- oh who am I kidding

What could this mean going forward, then? Is this plot twist a net positive for us? How do you guys feel about this?
 
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Cosmic77

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More Persona news has dropped! We finally know the identity of the mysterious "P5S", and it's...

A Warriors spinoff?


Well. I don't think anyone saw that coming.


So, that brings this strange and unusual batch of Persona rumors to a close for now, it seems. No port of P5 proper for the time being, though that could change in the long run. This also raises further questions about how Joker got here in the first place. At the very least, this means we can safely say cross-promotion was likely not a major factor in his inclusion, since using the Smash roster to advertise a spinoff of a very famous game would be...strange. Hopefully this means people will cool off on assuming the DLC picks must all be tie ins to upcoming- oh who am I kidding

What could this mean going forward, then? Is this plot twist a net positive for us? How do you guys feel about this?
I think people keep forgetting that there's also the possibility that Joker got added so additional negotiations between Nintendo and Atlus could occur.

In other words, Nintendo was never trying to promote anything with Joker. They just thought that adding him in Smash might encourage Atlus to partner up more often in the future, whether that be for a making a P5 Switch port or making future installments of the series for Nintendo consoles as well.
 

Guynamednelson

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What could this mean going forward, then? Is this plot twist a net positive for us? How do you guys feel about this?
Well, with no Jack Frost, P5R being released much later than stated, and the reveal of a Warriors game instead of a fighting game, I think it's time to dig graves for the 5ch leaks.
 

Staarih

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In other words, Nintendo was never trying to promote anything with Joker. They just thought that adding him in Smash might encourage Atlus to partner up more often in the future, whether that be for a making a P5 Switch port or making future installments of the series for Nintendo consoles as well.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Other stuff from Atlus like Shin Megami Tensei and Etrian Odyssey have found success on Nintendo consoles, with the upcoming SMTV being Switch exclusive, for example. They may want to keep up the pace with those series. The Persona games just seem to be the outlier being only for PlayStation (so far). But Joker looks to have still been a suitable pick to maintain ties with Atlus, even if he and everything he brings with him are from Persona games. I dunno, but I guess cross-promotion is not a factor I'll be looking into too much when speculating the DLC characters (even if P5 does find its way onto the Switch some day) - makes it all a bit more interesting at least!

Oh, and hi, been super inactive around here, except for lurking every now and then. Not sure where Lycanroc's chances stand at the moment, but will keep on supporting none the less.
 
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LukeRNG

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Don't remember if we talked about this, but what do you think of possibly getting a microsoft owned character, especially given the likelihood of getting said character announced at e3?
 

RileyXY1

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Don't remember if we talked about this, but what do you think of possibly getting a microsoft owned character, especially given the likelihood of getting said character announced at e3?
This thread is about Lycanroc. Please take that discussion to the general newcomer speculation thread.
 

Delzethin

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This thread is about Lycanroc. Please take that discussion to the general newcomer speculation thread.
Eh, we haven't had much new to talk about, and it's tangentially related since our chances also hang in the balance. I figure it can't hurt too much to double as a more laid back speculation thread that lacks the toxicity that springs up in the big threads at times, as long as we keep things reasonably related. Gives us a place to discuss things that we wouldn't be able to otherwise without putting targets on our backs just for what we're affiliated with.

On that note...

Don't remember if we talked about this, but what do you think of possibly getting a microsoft owned character, especially given the likelihood of getting said character announced at e3?
I think there's a fair chance we'll see a Microsoft character at some point in this set of DLC. Between Nintendo and Microsoft's increasingly amicable terms, the so far unfulfilled rumors of some kind of Minecraft content, and the junk data for a couple Rareware spirits, there's reason to believe some ambiguous thing may be going on behind the scenes.

But do I think we'll see one revealed at E3? Right now...no, I think E3 (or near-E3, like in 2015) will stick to Erdrick + a first party character. If we get someone from Microsoft, I think they'll be the last reveal of this wave, the exclamation point at the end.

I've noticed a lot of other speculators tend to expect every major rumor to come to pass ASAP, especially if E3 is nearby, but that isn't necessarily the case. Last E3 only gave us Ridley + a breakdown of Inkling's moveset, for example. It's not as simple as "what would be the biggest hype bomb possible right now", and we need to keep that in mind.
 
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Guynamednelson

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We'll have to wait for more Sword & Shield info. A Gen 8 Pokemon is Lycanroc's biggest competition at this point.
Not really. Incineroar was only chosen after SM was released, and since all fighters are to be released by Feburary, they won't have enough time if they repeat this. Plus, Rex is too new to even be DLC, why would characters from 2019 games be any different?
 

RandomAce

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Don't remember if we talked about this, but what do you think of possibly getting a microsoft owned character, especially given the likelihood of getting said character announced at e3?
Possible. I wouldn’t say a Microsoft is extremely likely, but I could Steve or Banjo being chosen. I don’t think we’ll get someone like Master Chief or from GEARS or the like though.

I do agree with Delz that we’re most likely getting Erdrick as one of the reveals for E3 as he was worked on alongside Joker, so it would make sense to show off a character that is nearly completed. I could also see a first party come in as well, as E3 and/or Smash directs have a pattern of showing off a Nintendo character and a third party newcomer, and could see it happen again. Of course, since some people don’t see first parties coming at all, if that’s the case I only see Erdrick and that it’s. I could see Nintendo spacing out the third parties with their own reveals.

Not really. Incineroar was only chosen after SM was released, and since all fighters are to be released by Feburary, they won't have enough time if they repeat this. Plus, Rex is too new to even be DLC, why would characters from 2019 games be any different?
It really depends if Gen 7 was given a look at again alongside Lycanroc.
 

RileyXY1

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Possible. I wouldn’t say a Microsoft is extremely likely, but I could Steve or Banjo being chosen. I don’t think we’ll get someone like Master Chief or from GEARS or the like though.

I do agree with Delz that we’re most likely getting Erdrick as one of the reveals for E3 as he was worked on alongside Joker, so it would make sense to show off a character that is nearly completed. I could also see a first party come in as well, as E3 and/or Smash directs have a pattern of showing off a Nintendo character and a third party newcomer, and could see it happen again. Of course, since some people don’t see first parties coming at all, if that’s the case I only see Erdrick and that it’s. I could see Nintendo spacing out the third parties with their own reveals.


It really depends if Gen 7 was given a look at again alongside Lycanroc.
We don't know if Erdrick is even playable. "Brave" could be someone else entirely.
 

Delzethin

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It really depends if Gen 7 was given a look at again alongside Lycanroc.
And that is the proverbial $64,000 question.

Problem is, it's getting dragged into Gen 8 talk when it probably shouldn't be right now. There seems to be this idea that they'd have to choose to promote Gen 8 or double back to Gen 7 (while implying the former would be too lucrative to resist), but if you ask me, we're looking at two different statements here. It's not "why would they pick someone from Gen 7 when Gen 8 is coming up", it's "Gen 8 probably wasn't an option when this wave was locked in last November because it was too far away...and maybe Gen 7 still had some stuff that caught their eye, possibly including a character who hit its stride too late to make the base roster".

That ended up wordier than I thought it'd be.
 

LukeRNG

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So at this point, it might be safe to assume that the next dlc character reveal will be at e3, or do you think sakurai will make a direct a day or so before e3.
It might also be safe to assume for a max of 2 character reveals, with at least having 1 third party.

On another note, even if it may be too soon to say, what would you do when:
1-. Lycanroc doesn't get in this fighter's pass,
2-. Lycanroc is announced
or
3-. Lycanroc doesn't get in at all.
 
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RandomAce

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So at this point, it might be safe to assume that the next dlc character reveal will be at e3, or do you think sakurai will make a direct a day or so before e3.
It might also be safe to assume for a max of 2 character reveals, with at least having 1 third party.

On another note, even if it may be too soon to say, what would you do when:
1-. Lycanroc doesn't get in this fighter's pass,
2-. Lycanroc is announced
or
3-. Lycanroc doesn't get in at all.
We’re most likely getting news around E3 week.

As for your other questions:
1. Disappointed, still support but much less hopeful.
3. Same thing as #1

2. Pretty much rush to this thread in extreme excitement and relief with and share it with other supporters who stayed for the long run (basically some of you guys). There’s probably going to be some speeches of how much of a rocky ride that would be and hype in general (would escalate if all the forms came along too).

I’m not gonna go into further detail, because, it’s not certain. But I’m always keeping my fingers crossed for situation 2 to happen.
 
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