Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
131
Hey, I just had an idea.
So yoy know how Sceptile isn't a spirit and there appears to be a cut first party
What if it was Sceptile
Think about it.
-Most Popular Ballot Pokemon
-Unique Grass Power
-No Gen 3 representation, for which fans have died for

My theroy is Incenaroar was pushed by the Pokemon company to shove a Revelant pokemon out that would have become Irevelant by Ultimate's release and Incenaroar was the only Gen 7 pokemon that would be a fit, so they shoved him in there.
That may also be why Sceptile has no spirit and why There is no new gen 7 representation.
Because it was rushed
 
Last edited:

Cosmic77

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
3,321
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Hey, I just had an idea.
So yoy know how Sceptile isn't a spirit and there appears to be a cut first party
What if it was Sceptile
Think about it.
-Most Popular Ballot Pokemon
-Unique Grass Power
-No Gen 3 representation, for which fans have died for

My theroy is Incenaroar was pushed by the Pokemon company to shove a Revelant pokemon out that would have become Irevelant by Ultimate's release and Incenaroar was the only Gen 7 pokemon that would be a fit, so they shoved him in there.
That may also be why Sceptile has no spirit and why There is no new gen 7 representation.
Because it was rushed
If there was a cut first-party, I doubt it was Sceptile. Sakurai should know by now that the popularity of Pokemon are constantly changing, so using ballot results of popular Pokemon in 2015 likely won't reflect what's popular in 2018.

Sadly, I think Sceptile was never planned for Smash. Him not being a Spirit is likely just bad luck, as they could've quickly added him at any time within the two years Ultimate was being developed. He can join Zoroark in the "popular Pokemon who failed to get their Gen represented in Smash" club.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
980
Sadly, I think Sceptile was never planned for Smash. Him not being a Spirit is likely just bad luck, as they could've quickly added him at any time within the two years Ultimate was being developed. He can join Zoroark in the "popular Pokemon who failed to get their Gen represented in Smash" club.
I can’t believe that that only one of my top 10 mons, Scizor, got anything at all. The only problem with Sakurai picking Pokémon is that he has personal bias that always seems to give the opposite of what fans want. That’s the only reason we got Incineroar: because Sakurai was like, “Today I feel like Tony the Tiger!” and completely ignored every other option, even though there were at least 100 Pokémon who could outshine him (Just imagine playing as Beedrill or Flygon). If only he would’ve known how unlike Greninja that Incineroar would end up being.
 
Last edited:

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
77
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I've been looking at some spoilers regarding bosses and here's an idea:
So far there seems to be 0 pokemon bosses in the game, so what boss will the pokemon characters end up fighting in classic mode?
Pikachu fights Mewtwo then master hand, but the others i cannot think of who they would fight while going with their respective themes.
What if Lycanroc could come with it's own boss fight. Maybe an ultra beast or even ultra necrozma.
 

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,074
I've been looking at some spoilers regarding bosses and here's an idea:
So far there seems to be 0 pokemon bosses in the game, so what boss will the pokemon characters end up fighting in classic mode?
Pikachu fights Mewtwo then master hand, but the others i cannot think of who they would fight while going with their respective themes.
What if Lycanroc could come with it's own boss fight. Maybe an ultra beast or even ultra necrozma.
Ultra Necromza was honestly a missed opportunity, as it would’ve been a perfect boss with a lot of memorable powerful moves to take from like Photon Geyser. But him being absent also builds up the evidence that there is no USUM content and that Sakurai picked Incineroar during the original games.

But I do agree, if Lycanroc were to have it’s own boss, then it would be Ultra Necrozma. Sorta makes sense since if they do bring the Dusk Form, then both would be from the Ultra Games.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
77
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
If there isn't a boss from the pokemon franchise, what boss would suit the other pokemon characters?
Here's what i have:
Jigglypuff: Master Hand
Mewtwo: Maybe Crazy Hand or Marx.
Pichu: Crazy Hand
Pokemon Trainer: Rathalos
Lucario: Don't Know
Greninja: Rathalos/Don't know otherwise
Incineroar: Giga Bowser
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
5,102
I can’t believe that that only one of my top 10 mons, Scizor, got anything at all. The only problem with Sakurai picking Pokémon is that he has personal bias that always seems to give the opposite of what fans want. That’s the only reason we got Incineroar: because Sakurai was like, “Today I feel like Tony the Tiger!” and completely ignored every other option, even though there were at least 100 Pokémon who could outshine him (Just imagine playing as Beedrill or Flygon). If only he would’ve known how unlike Greninja that Incineroar would end up being.
Personally I'd rather play as Incineroar or Beedrill or Flygon. With hundreds of Pokemon, you aren't going to pick one that will please everybody.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
980
Personally I'd rather play as Incineroar or Beedrill or Flygon. With hundreds of Pokemon, you aren't going to pick one that will please everybody.
I beg to differ, using Mewtwo as an example; I don’t think anyone was or is disappointed by him. The only controversial pokemon picks are starters, because you pick one and suddenly 80% of the Pokémon fandom is outraged by Sakurai. That’s why all of the Pokémon reps should’ve stayed away from starters, at least then no one would have to be angered knowing that a starter they don’t like was picked over their favorite.
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,417
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
I've been looking at some spoilers regarding bosses and here's an idea:
So far there seems to be 0 pokemon bosses in the game, so what boss will the pokemon characters end up fighting in classic mode?
Pikachu fights Mewtwo then master hand, but the others i cannot think of who they would fight while going with their respective themes.
What if Lycanroc could come with it's own boss fight. Maybe an ultra beast or even ultra necrozma.
Ultra Necromza was honestly a missed opportunity, as it would’ve been a perfect boss with a lot of memorable powerful moves to take from like Photon Geyser. But him being absent also builds up the evidence that there is no USUM content and that Sakurai picked Incineroar during the original games.

But I do agree, if Lycanroc were to have it’s own boss, then it would be Ultra Necrozma. Sorta makes sense since if they do bring the Dusk Form, then both would be from the Ultra Games.
I've heard that apparently there's a Werewolf boss (from Castlevania)? If true, that'd be a fitting final battle, depending on the theme Lycanroc's Classic Mode campaign would have.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
77
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I've heard that apparently there's a Werewolf boss (from Castlevania)? If true, that'd be a fitting final battle, depending on the theme Lycanroc's Classic Mode campaign would have.
I think it's true since there is a Werewolf on the main menu of spirits in world of light, alongside king bulblin from twilight princess and a boss from bayonetta.
I think it was shown off by sakurai for like 1 second. It's a shame and quite weird that there's no pokemon boss anywhere.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
131
I think it's true since there is a Werewolf on the main menu of spirits in world of light, alongside king bulblin from twilight princess and a boss from bayonetta.
I think it was shown off by sakurai for like 1 second. It's a shame and quite weird that there's no pokemon boss anywhere.
[/SPOILER]
Raquaza is confirmed to return
 

GlaceonGD

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
43
Location
Ayar Region
Lycanroc missing from the game as a whole is a bit strange, but isn't guaranteed to mean something. Hopefully if Nintendo did choose another pokemon rep for DLC it's lycanroc or at least one that won't make as many people angry as incineroar did. I don't hate incineroar's character in smash because I do think they made him look a bit better (thank god they actually gave him fur that really improved it imo) and he looks interesting to try out, but he still isn't a pokemon I particularly like and probably never will be.

I beg to differ, using Mewtwo as an example; I don’t think anyone was or is disappointed by him. The only controversial pokemon picks are starters, because you pick one and suddenly 80% of the Pokémon fandom is outraged by Sakurai. That’s why all of the Pokémon reps should’ve stayed away from starters, at least then no one would have to be angered knowing that a starter they don’t like was picked over their favorite.
Funny you say that, I actually don't like any of the playable pokemon. Unfortunately, the only additions I would like and play as often would be lycanroc and eevee (or one of it's evolutions), but I don't have very high hopes for either of them to make it in.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
980
Same.
I want Lycanroc and Sceptile desperately
I desperately have wanted Sceptile since Brawl, he’s been badly shafted, despite being the top pick from hoenn for years, especially since Gardevoir was stuck in pokeball limbo. And Lycanroc is pretty much the face of gen 7. Yet neither has gotten literally anything... very suspicious and honestly a bit dumb. Oh well, at least I can say they’ve been treated far better than others in their own series.
 
Last edited:

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,074
I desperately have wanted Sceptile since Brawl, he’s been badly shafted, despite being the top pick from hoenn for years, especially since Gardevoir was stuck in pokeball limbo. And Lycanroc is pretty much the face of gen 7. Yet neither has gotten literally anything... very suspicious and honestly a bit dumb. Oh well, at least I can say they’ve been treated far better than others in their own series.
I feel your pain a bit. Lycanroc and Sceptile are two of my favorite Pokémon, and while they didn’t seem to have faired well in Smash, I’m a bit happy with the content they’ve had in Pokémon so far.

Anyways, let’s start a new topic. In SM, Lycanroc were considered to be pretty mediocre competitively. How would you improve Lycanroc if given the chance?
 
Last edited:

GlaceonGD

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
43
Location
Ayar Region
I feel your pain a bit. Lycanroc and Sceptile are two of my favorite Pokémon, and while they didn’t seem to have faired well in Smash, I’m a bit happy with the content they’ve had in Pokémon so far.

Anyways, let’s start a new topic. In SM, Lycanroc were considered to be pretty mediocre competitively. How would you improve Lycanroc if given the chance?
Well, I personally don't like the competitive scene in pokemon and disregard their rankings for certain pokemon because they're calling things garbage that are actually good in the regular game (for example, glaceon and the majority of the eeveelutions. I've been berated in servers countless times for liking glaceon and the arguement they always use is "glaceon is so bad that it's in the worst tier in competitive your opinion sucks" even though I've beaten at least one game using only eeveelutions and didn't lose a single battle. Just because people say it's bad in competitive doesn't mead it's bad in general). So yeah, I don't really listen to any of that stuff, and I feel that lycanroc is perfectly fine the way it is. Competitive honestly just sucks the fun and diversity out of the game.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
980
So yeah, I don't really listen to any of that stuff, and I feel that lycanroc is perfectly fine the way it is. Competitive honestly just sucks the fun and diversity out of the game.
Yeah, if you look at competitive teams, you notice that they are lacking diversity and most have the exact same Pokémon, with one or two interchanged. The competitive scene in Pokémon doesn’t matter in the long run, and is quite stupid now anyway. I mean, what’s so bad about Eeveelutions when they can be considered some of the best things to have in the main game?
 

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
77
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
In classic mode all the Fighters have unique bosses on a lower difficulty.
All Pokemon fight Raquaza
But where did you see that though? I literally can't find the source of that anywhere.
And Pikachu fights Mewtwo then Master Hand.
And apparently not all bosses are just boss characters, cause it seems Bayonetta Fights a Giant Palutena at the end of classic mode.
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,417
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
Anyways, let’s start a new topic. In SM, Lycanroc were considered to be pretty mediocre competitively. How would you improve Lycanroc if given the chance?
Hm. I suppose the best option would be a one-two punch of a minor stat buff (~20 points total, like the ones we saw a handful of lines get for Gen 7) and a few more coverage moves. Exactly which ones would work best...well, I'd leave that up to someone with more competitive experience.

Those would help out Midday and Dusk, at least. Midnight...would be more difficult to buff, stuck with an awkward statline and defensive tools with a typing that actually isn't very good defensively against other players.


Meanwhile...

Apparently there is not a Werewolf boss? Almost all of those apparent bosses in the mural are nowhere to be found, which is flat out weird.

Though considering the rumors of a potential Day 1 patch/update, and word that Minecraft's "representation" may be limited to a boss, perhaps Ultimate will get Splatoon-style rolling updates for free in addition to the DLC pass?
 

osby

Pranked!
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
6,923
Meanwhile...

Apparently there is not a Werewolf boss? Almost all of those apparent bosses in the mural are nowhere to be found, which is flat out weird.

Though considering the rumors of a potential Day 1 patch/update, and word that Minecraft's "representation" may be limited to a boss, perhaps Ultimate will get Splatoon-style rolling updates for free in addition to the DLC pass?
I think they were just there for show. It's an understandable alternative to spoiling the real bosses.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
131
But where did you see that though? I literally can't find the source of that anywhere.
And Pikachu fights Mewtwo then Master Hand.
And apparently not all bosses are just boss characters, cause it seems Bayonetta Fights a Giant Palutena at the end of classic mode.

I think I saw it at GameExplain or something like that.
 

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,074
I think they were just there for show. It's an understandable alternative to spoiling the real bosses.
That feels wrong though, since when you see the image, you go in expecting to see the likes of these characters and may even be excited for some of them... only to not appear at all.

I’m not sure if they are or aren’t in the game, but it looks like they aren’t bosses, so I get a “clickbait” sort of vibe. The team could’ve easily used Galeem, Master Hand, and Dracula since those were already revealed (or expected since Master Hand always appear), but they didn’t.

Well, I personally don't like the competitive scene in pokemon and disregard their rankings for certain pokemon because they're calling things garbage that are actually good in the regular game (for example, glaceon and the majority of the eeveelutions. I've been berated in servers countless times for liking glaceon and the arguement they always use is "glaceon is so bad that it's in the worst tier in competitive your opinion sucks" even though I've beaten at least one game using only eeveelutions and didn't lose a single battle. Just because people say it's bad in competitive doesn't mead it's bad in general). So yeah, I don't really listen to any of that stuff, and I feel that lycanroc is perfectly fine the way it is. Competitive honestly just sucks the fun and diversity out of the game.
Yeah that’s true.

I usually don’t dabble into the ultra competitive scene. I do like a competitive setting, but I mostly just like to play around with my favorite Pokémon team with other people, and I still mostly do fine regardless.
 
Last edited:

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
77
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I think I saw it at GameExplain or something like that.
There's absolutely nothing regarding Rayquaza in any of their videos and i do remember their recent videos well. You might've confused it with a spirit of rayquaza. Plus there's nothing regarding Rayquaza online and smash ultimate bosses. Not saying you're wrong, but so far there's no information at all regarding Rayquaza.

On another topic, will the dlc fighters be featured in World of light as bonus fights in a fashion like Toon Link, Jigglypuff & Wolf in subspace? Not saying that we have to unlock them, but just get bonus battles. And will we get bonus spirits as free updates?
 
Last edited:

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,417
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
On another topic, will the dlc fighters be featured in World of light as bonus fights in a fashion like Toon Link, Jigglypuff & Wolf in subspace? Not saying that we have to unlock them, but just get bonus battles. And will we get bonus spirits as free updates?
Hard to say if any DLC characters will get added into World of Light. It would be neat if they got some kind of extra optional content, though. Dungeons seem to be a thing, so maybe each newcomer could have a paralogue dungeon of sorts added to the map as you purchase them?

Far as spirits go...

There actually is data for a few spirits that are not present in the leaked build of the game. Would imply that more spirits being added over time is certainly a possibility, whether alongside DLC additions or as part of rolling updates after release.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
131
I would assume the day one patch will probably feature any extra spirits not currently present. Aside from that it better nerf bayo.

Delzethin made a video about the problem with Bayonetta and Cloud that is super old, like 9 months.

In short the problem is memes and sesationalism, blinding our pereception.

But Bayonetta could maybe still use a few nerfs, mainly on witch time, that move still looks frightening. But there are counters to Bayonetta.

On a side note, in World of Light whenever you attempt to unlock a character you have to fight them on final destination. Fox is one of the people you unlock.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Champion
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
2,099
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
I would assume the day one patch will probably feature any extra spirits not currently present. Aside from that it better nerf bayo.
Delzethin made a video about the problem with Bayonetta and Cloud that is super old, like 9 months.

In short the problem is memes and sesationalism, blinding our pereception.

But Bayonetta could maybe still use a few nerfs, mainly on witch time, that move still looks frightening. But there are counters to Bayonetta.

On a side note, in World of Light whenever you attempt to unlock a character you have to fight them on final destination. Fox is one of the people you unlock.
I get the feeling that even if :ultbayonetta: got nerfed into a barely-functional mess at the absolute bottom of the tier list (not unlike :kirbymelee:), people would still be calling her OP.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
980
I get the feeling that even if :ultbayonetta: got nerfed into a barely-functional mess at the absolute bottom of the tier list (not unlike :kirbymelee:), people would still be calling her OP.
I love how Sakurai always makes Kirby, the pretty much lowest tier thing ever, the star of every game. The real question though is why is Kirby not high tier when obviously Sakurai tries to make him important in each entry to the series?
 

Luigifan18

Smash Champion
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
2,099
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
I love how Sakurai always makes Kirby, the pretty much lowest tier thing ever, the star of every game. The real question though is why is Kirby not high tier when obviously Sakurai tries to make him important in each entry to the series?
Kirby was only bottom-tier in Melee (hence why I used his Melee icon; that's the game where he was at the bottom of the tier list). Kirby was the second-best character in Smash 64 and has been a solid mid-tier character (if not high-tier) from Brawl onward.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
131
I love how Sakurai always makes Kirby, the pretty much lowest tier thing ever, the star of every game. The real question though is why is Kirby not high tier when obviously Sakurai tries to make him important in each entry to the series?
Kirby was only bottom-tier in Melee (hence why I used his Melee icon; that's the game where he was at the bottom of the tier list). Kirby was the second-best character in Smash 64 and has been a solid mid-tier character (if not high-tier) from Brawl onward.

Silly people.

If Kirby kills gods everyday before dinner how is he a low teir
think about it.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
77
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
Whatever ends up happening, it would be a huge missed opportunity to not have Ultra Necrozma as a boss. It's become quite infamous in the pokemon comunity as the Nuzlocke killer. Imagine the ultra megalopolis battlefield. Plus i just really want to see it in HD.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
669
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
NNID
Nelson340
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I've come to the conclusion that my problem with Incineroar is not that it's another anthro or another starter, but because its moveset could be perfectly transferred to a human character. Other Pokemon would have issues getting their moveset transferred to a human, such as their body shape, the use of tail attacks, or how Lucario's legs work. Perhaps this is the real reason why it got chosen over other Alolan starters or actual Alolan mascots so late in development-their bodies are less human (without working like Kirby or Jigglypuff's) and thus would need more work.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
131
Top