Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[LukeRNG]

We’ll be waiting another decade before any of them get in with how Sakurai is treating dlc this time.

What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[Guynamednelson]

What exactly do you mean by that?

Is it the "unexpected" thing? Because a lot of things could be unexpected to the crowd that likes how many awards RDR2 got that night.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What exactly do you mean by that?

Do you honestly expect any of them to get in?

 

[LukeRNG]

Do you honestly expect any of them to get in?

Not at all, and so does most people. There's a difference between wanting a character and actually believing that said character will get in.
All those characters i listed are very wanted in smash but a lot of the people wanting these characters don't expect them to have a chance.

I mean, do you actually think Banjo, Sora & Crash are expected to be shoe-ins?

(I want to know if i'm sounding like i'm saying Lyacnroc has no chance at all, cause that's not it at all. I want to clarify that Lycanroc may have more competition).

 

[Delzethin]

The way I see it, Persona 5 is the Fire Emblem Awakening of its series. Persona (and SMT as a whole) had a reputation, especially Persona 3 and 4, but the games themselves were more niche titles that had a dedicated following but didn't bring in many players outside of it. Fire Emblem was in a similar boat for a long time, with a devoted--albeit sometimes divided--fanbase but wasn't putting up any big numbers in sales. But it was Awakening that changed that, though being a core RPG early in the 3DS' run when the system didn't have any major ones and through actually being advertised in ways that every previous title hadn't. Those circumstances brought Fire Emblem into the mainstream, and because of that, Lucina, Robin, Chrom, and many others have become household names among Nintendo fans. Persona 5 did something similar for its own franchise.

Being a newer face among the guest fighters is still a surprise--the only other so far who hasn't been around at least 20 years is Bayonetta--but honestly, I completely understand wanting to pick Joker as a rising star of sorts. Time will tell how much the decision will age, but it doesn't seem like we've jumped the shark yet. Far from it.

Though the fact that the first character for the Fighter Pass is an up-and-comer from 2016 may bode well for us indirectly. Hard to say for sure, though.

 

[Garteam]

Sorry about causing all this off-topic Joker talk, guys. Regardless of my personal opinions on his inclusions, an unrelated character thread isn't the best place to vent.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Who do you guys think will be Ash's final two Alolan Pokemon? Between Gible, Noivern, and Goodra, Ash has gained an affinity for Dragons, so I think that Jangmo-o or its evolutions serve more than a fighting chance. I'm also going to make a bold prediction and say that Greninja will return to become Ash's last team member before the league given its popularity. Likewise, I could also see Poipole returning for the league (prehaps evolving into a Naganadel since we last saw him?)

 

[RandomAce]

Who do you guys think will be Ash's final two Alolan Pokemon? Between Gible, Noivern, and Goodra, Ash has gained an affinity for Dragons, so I think that Jangmo-o or its evolutions serve more than a fighting chance. I'm also going to make a bold prediction and say that Greninja will return to become Ash's last team member before the league given its popularity. Likewise, I could also see Poipole returning for the league (prehaps evolving into a Naganadel since we last saw him?)

Really hard to tell. I’m not caught up in the anime nowadays, but Ash only has Dusk Lycanroc, Torrocat, Pikachu, and Rowlet.

Which is still very limiting since Dusk Lycanroc is the only pioneering Pokémon that had multiple Battle Arcs the whole run and we still haven’t went back to Torrocat yet. And we don’t even know if Rowlet’s going to even be a part of Ash’s main team with Hau and his Dartrix who’s most likely going to evolve into Decidueye later, and Rowlet not really doing much.

So I think things might be picking up again soon. I think Kommo-o is a good bet, it’s another unique Pokémon that I think the team had put a lot of effort into. I think I’ll go as to say, an UB may actually be apart of Ash’s team too. Going between Uxetrie (The electric cable) and maybe Poipol could evolve into Naganadel.

Delzethin , do you have any news on upcoming Anime episodes?

 

[Cosmic77]

Really hard to tell. I’m not caught up in the anime nowadays, but Ash only has Dusk Lycanroc, Torrocat, Pikachu, and Rowlet.

Which is still very limiting since Dusk Lycanroc is the only pioneering Pokémon that had multiple Battle Arcs the whole run and we still haven’t went back to Torrocat yet. And we don’t even know if Rowlet’s going to even be a part of Ash’s main team with Hau and his Dartrix who’s most likely going to evolve into Decidueye later, and Rowlet not really doing much.

So I think things might be picking up again soon. I think Kommo-o is a good bet, it’s another unique Pokémon that I think the team had put a lot of effort into. I think I’ll go as to say, an UB may actually be apart of Ash’s team too. Going between Uxetrie (The electric cable) and maybe Poipol could evolve into Naganadel.

Delzethin , do you have any news on upcoming Anime episodes?

Rowlet might get some development, but it's confirmed that it won't evolve.

As far as I know, there's nothing too notable in the upcoming anime regarding Ash possibly getting new Pokemon. The newest episodes that we're aware of are basically Let's Go promotion with Misty and Brock.

 

[LukeRNG]

Who do you guys think will be Ash's final two Alolan Pokemon? Between Gible, Noivern, and Goodra, Ash has gained an affinity for Dragons, so I think that Jangmo-o or its evolutions serve more than a fighting chance. I'm also going to make a bold prediction and say that Greninja will return to become Ash's last team member before the league given its popularity. Likewise, I could also see Poipole returning for the league (prehaps evolving into a Naganadel since we last saw him?)

I'm honestly hoping that the farewell with wimpod was a hint for a future capture, because now it seems like Guzma isn't going to show up in the anime + i would love ash to have a Golisopod in his team, since he currently lacks a water type and i just adore character developent featuring a timid/cowardly pokemon (and the though of a scaredy Golisopod is too good to pass up). And a Kommo-o would be sweet, but for some reason i'm feeling Hakamo-o is a better fit for ash.

Speaking of dlc, i know adding a pokemon would make it sell a lot, but since the only dlc pokemon we've had was Mewtwo; a veteran, i don't know how true that is. Here's the real question: is lycanroc a dlc character the causal audience will buy or even care about? Or better put, a must buy fighter? I'm aware the moveset in-game makes 50% of the character, but will lycanroc be that hype to add as dlc? Although, i do think they could add a dlc character that isn't mindblowingly hype or exciting, because otherwise they would be raising the bar too high for people's expectations.

 

[Delzethin]

Speaking of dlc, i know adding a pokemon would make it sell a lot, but since the only dlc pokemon we've had was Mewtwo; a veteran, i don't know how true that is. Here's the real question: is lycanroc a dlc character the causal audience will buy or even care about? Or better put, a must buy fighter? I'm aware the moveset in-game makes 50% of the character, but will lycanroc be that hype to add as dlc? Although, i do think they could add a dlc character that isn't mindblowingly hype or exciting, because otherwise they would be raising the bar too high for people's expectations.

That's a difficult question to answer, but mainly because we're lacking in Smash 4 DLC data that'd help us find out. If anything, Corrin was proof that they were willing to take a risk on a newer face that didn't already have a huge bandwagon. We at least have the upside of already being popular among Pokémon fans despite being such an afterthought among Smash speculators, so it'd mean that many more people who'd likely be open to the idea, however much that matters.

Though I'd be lying if I said wasn't worried about how are perceived as not being interesting or worth giving a chance in some circles. Having all the potential in the world hardly matters if no one's willing to watch you show it off. Would Sakurai and whatever inner circle helps determine who to add to Smash be willing or even have the time to give us more than a passing glance? Before recently, I'd have thought so, but now things aren't so clear...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Though I'd be lying if I said wasn't worried about how are perceived as not being interesting or worth giving a chance in some circles.

Is this about all the "too many Pokemon" complaints on RTC day? Because this board's opinions do not match the entirety of the Smash consumer base. Judging by like/dislike ratios on the Youtube videos on smashbros.com, most people don't even believe in "Too many Mario/Pokemon/FE reps".

 

[LukeRNG]

With Joker being a taste of what's to come with the dlc, what other big competitors do we have as of this point?
Here's some characters that come to mind as popular, old and unexpected characters that could join the battle, us included:

Spoiler: Posible candidates

2B: Nier Automata

Crash: Crash N'Sane Trilogy

Sora: Kingdom Hearts 3

Banjo & Kazooie: Banjo Kazooie

Pokemon Character (Dusk Lycanroc): Pokemon Ultra Sun/Moon

Lloyd Irving: Tales of Symphonia

Agumon: Digimon Survive

Monster Hunter: Monster Hunter World/Generations Ultimate

King Boo: Luigi's Mansion 3

It's very soon to say what to expect from the dlc, but i think there's something to be said about the statements of the dlc being must haves and unexpected characters, so it's hard to say if all characters will be unexpected and all the characters above are just assumptions based on how wild some of those are. But even if it's just 1% probability, i'd say that all of them are possible in some way. They're either popular modern characters, popular legacy characters or can both promote a new game and cause a big suprise for their inclusion (no one would realistically expect King Boo based on preliminary expectations and baseless speculation).

The other point is how many third parties we're getting as dlc, because outside of veterans smash 4 had 3 third party newcomers vs just 1 nintendo character.
Will it be the same for ultimate: getting 3 or even 4 third party characters with only 2 or 1 nintendo characters? Maybe nintendo wants to build bridges with third party companies to try and get more ports to switch, after all when Joker was announced rumors of a Persona 5 port arose. And we're getting a bunch of Final Fantasy games to switch all of a sudden.

So if we assume that we're only getting 1 nintendo character as dlc, how likely would it be lycanroc?

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

About 33%, I wouldn't rely on it. I think it would be King Boo or someone else as King Boo is a villan and the vide that Nintendo is getting is add more villans.


Diablo could also be comming to Smash

 

[Guynamednelson]

the vide that Nintendo is getting is add more villans.

I don't feel it. Less than half of the SSBU newcomers are villains, and even then it's just an act for Incineroar. Speaking of Incineroar, here's an extension to my Incineroar conspiracy:

The spirit battle for the reporter and wrestler from Rhythm Heaven takes place in the Boxing Ring, like Incineroar's fights tend to do, but guess who's used to represent the wrestler? Pikachu Libre!

EDIT: According to https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1072881178120642560 it seems that Incineroar was decided with base SM.

 

[LukeRNG]

I think it would be King Boo or someone else as King Boo is a villan and the vide that Nintendo is getting is add more villans.

I don't agree with the villains vibe, since out of all newcomers we only got 3 villains. I also don't know if king boo would be a must have character.
I still think you're giving King Boo too much credit, but that's just me. I guess with the addition of Piranha plant i just can't see them adding another mario character.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

I don't agree with the villains vibe, since out of all newcomers we only got 3 villains. I also don't know if king boo would be a must have character.
I still think you're giving King Boo too much credit, but that's just me. I guess with the addition of Piranha plant i just can't see them adding another mario character.

Technically, he is a Luigi's Mansion Character

 

[RandomAce]

According to https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1072881178120642560 it seems that Incineroar was decided with base SM.

Ha, knew it. No way they decided on Incineroar that late and got him into the base game.

 

[LukeRNG]

Technically, he is a Luigi's Mansion Character

And Dr. Mario is technically from Dr. Mario, Rosalina from Galaxy, Daisy from Mario Land, etc. I heavily doubt King boo would get to be in it's own series when luigi isn't part of luigi's mansion. That's like saying that Dark Samus is technically from Metroid Prime and not the classic 2d metroid games.
Realistically most people would first consider King Boo as ''another mario character''.

 

[Garteam]

If Incineroar was decided with the release of Sun and Moon, there's a decent chance that Ash's team for the anime had yet to be planned out. Likely, they had only decided he would have Pikachu, Rowlet, and (maybe) Litten. Rockruff and Poipole probably weren't decided upon until Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon were along in their development. This could possibly explain why Incineroar breaks the trend of every Pokemon in Smash having some sort of major anime counterpart.

 

[RandomAce]

If Incineroar was decided with the release of Sun and Moon, there's a decent chance that Ash's team for the anime had yet to be planned out. Likely, they had only decided he would have Pikachu, Rowlet, and (maybe) Litten. Rockruff and Poipole probably weren't decided upon until Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon were along in their development. This could possibly explain why Incineroar breaks the trend of every Pokemon in Smash having some sort of major anime counterpart.

I have another feeling that Lycanroc would’ve also needed more work for Incineroar.

Retrospectively, Ultimate has the least amount of new content in the whole series, excluding WOL and Spirits, which are technically one mode. This also stemmed into the newcomers, since we only have 6 new fighters (Isabelle being a semi-clone), with 5 more being echoes (Ken is the most unique, but still uses Ryu as a base). And most of them didn’t go beyond like most of Smash 4’s newcomer roster, with Inkling and Simon being the only two arguably being on that level.

Incineroar’s moveset is a lot more feasible compared to the other Pokémon. You can basically swap him with a muscular human and it’ll still fit just as fine due to Incineroar’s more conventional build, and aside from the whole wrestler motif, Incineroar’s moveset doesn’t bring anything new twists aside from his specials. And they also used the Boxing Ring as Incineroar’s stage as well.

Decidueye and Lycanroc are going to need more work and creativity since they’re designs and core elements are more “unqiue” in the sense that there aren’t a lot of other characters they can based off of. Even Midnight Lycanroc would’ve needed more work due to it’s earth powers and it’s more battle thirsty slouching design.

That isn’t to say though that Lycanroc’s quadrupedal builds are what make Lycanroc a no go. Those would’ve only been due to time which is no longer a problem with DLC, or , if Sakurai didn’t bring everything back and had more to time to add more characters/ideas for the base game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You can basically swap him with a muscular human and it’ll still fit just fine due to Incineroar’s more conventional build, and aside from the whole wrestler motif, Incineroar’s moveset doesn’t bring anything new twists aside from his specials. And they also used the Boxing Ring as Incineroar’s stage as well.

As much as I went "crotch flamethrower lmao", that would at least help it feel like you're playing as a Pokemon and not a human in a costume.

 

[Garteam]

As much as I went "crotch flamethrower lmao", that would at least help it feel like you're playing as a Pokemon and not a human in a costume.

It is kinda weird that Incineroar has no fire moves, despite it being such a major part of his identity. He only has one Dark move as well and that's only because its his signature move. Otherwise, his entire moveset is based around Fighting moves and the Alolan Whip (which isn't based off any particular move in Pokemon).

It would be like Robin having no Fire or Wind tomes, only having Thoron for Thunder tomes, two different Dark tomes, and then a made-up tome of no specific element.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

If Atlus can have Joker in becuase it is a long time partner of Nintendo, then my predictions are


Bethesda Character
Ubisoft Character
Koei Techmo person (Ryu Hayubusa most likely)
First party/square Character/Microsoft Character/Blizzard Character????

 

[Garteam]

If Atlus can have Joker in becuase it is a long time partner of Nintendo, then my predictions are


Bethesda Character
Ubisoft Character
Koei Techmo person (Ryu Hayubusa most likely)
First party/square Character/Microsoft Character/Blizzard Character????

I want to see who our next character is before I fully subscribe to the idea that the Fighter Pass will only be Third Party. We're definitely getting another third party (probably that Square Enix rep everyone seems to be talking about, who is looking more and more likely to be Erdrick), but there's still a chance that the remaining 3 could be 1st party.

Technically, we're 1-1 on the ratio between Nintendo and Third Parties in DLC.

 

[RandomAce]

With this thread slowing down today, I guess I’ll post something here.

Anyone up for some more fan art? Well I’ve got some right here.

(Credits to PortugueseLynx (or Softmonkeychains)).

I always enjoy these sort of spins on Lycanroc. A lot more playful looking and adorable. Extra creds for making Midnight look a lot more caring and actually giving Dusk it’s Red Eyes.

 

[LukeRNG]

Would any of you say that, other than Generation 8, Lycanroc has competition within the pokemon series?
If so, then what other pokemon would be considered competition?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Would any of you say that, other than Generation 8, Lycanroc has competition within the pokemon series?
If so, then what other pokemon would be considered competition?

They might want to promote Eevee from a Poke Ball Pokemon to playable, or at least have its evolutions be Koopalings 2.0.

In addition, they might just want to make Pokemon echoes rather than unique fighters.

 

[LukeRNG]

They might want to promote Eevee from a Poke Ball Pokemon to playable, or at least have its evolutions be Koopalings 2.0.

In addition, they might just want to make Pokemon echoes rather than unique fighters.

As far as i know, the dlc isn't including echoes, so that's out the window.

And we've yet to see them promoting a support character into a fighter within the same game. But since many supports are restricted from various stages, they could easily restrict a support whenever someone is playing that character. If Robin can have Chrom in the final smash when fighting Chrom, then i don't see the limit.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As far as i know, the dlc isn't including echoes, so that's out the window.

And we've yet to see them promoting a support character into a fighter within the same game. But since many supports are restricted from various stages, they could easily restrict a support whenever someone is playing that character. If Robin can have Chrom in the final smash when fighting Chrom, then i don't see the limit.

I don't mean that echoes would be in the Fighter's Pass unless they echo a DLC fighter. They would be separate DLC, with neither stages nor music. I also considered them wanting to promote Eevee because someone might think it's unfair for it to not be playable, considering why we didn't get Let's Go Psyduck.

 

[GlaceonGD]

Would any of you say that, other than Generation 8, Lycanroc has competition within the pokemon series?
If so, then what other pokemon would be considered competition?

While unfortunately its chances are next to none, I agree with the very slight possibility of eevee becoming playable. Honestly it's just a fantasy for me because eevee is my favorite pokemon of all time and I want him playable more than any other character period. The way it's been treated in the game so far, I don't see nintendo ever wanting to take it out of pokeball limbo, and honestly all I've gotten for supporting it is "eevee can't have a moveset" and things much, much more hurtful and rude than that. People say "piranha plant is in now, everyone can have a moveset" but then say "eevee doesn't have enough moves and isn't popular enough for what it is grow up" so yeah, unfortunately just a dream.

 

[RandomAce]

Would any of you say that, other than Generation 8, Lycanroc has competition within the pokemon series?
If so, then what other pokemon would be considered competition?

I guess Decidueye would yet again be another competitor, seeing how it’s still fairly popular and is unqiue with it’s whole motif going on, but there are still some aspects that Lycanroc has the upper hand on.

But Lycanroc doesn’t have a lot of competition, if any at all. We’re still at the top and it’s really a matter of if Sakurai and his team looked at Gen 7 again, or if Nintendo suggested a Gen 7 Pokémon, then odds are, Lycanroc would’ve been considered and could possibly make the cut.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

Lycanroc has almost no competition however that hardly matters when Reggie says that all the Fighters would be from New Franchises. Remember who is picking DLC here

 

[LukeRNG]

Lycanroc has almost no competition however that hardly matters when Reggie says that all the Fighters would be from New Franchises. Remember who is picking DLC here

He didn't say that at all. He said fighters ''new to the smash bros. series'', like Joker, ''characters you wouldn't anticipate to be in smash''.

 

[RandomAce]

Lycanroc has almost no competition however that hardly matters when Reggie says that all the Fighters would be from New Franchises. Remember who is picking DLC here

Even then, there is still some merit Nintendo has to suggesting Lycanroc if they wanted.

Lycanroc is one of the most prominent Pokémon in Gen 7, is very popular among Pokémon fans, was used to advertise the SM and USUM even recently this past year, and still fits Sakurai’s strive for uniqueness and character while also having the lack of SM Stage and some notable tracks they can still use for a Lycanroc Set to not seem redundant (heck even thrown in some tracks from other games).

I don’t think our chances are completely dead in the water, there is still some merit for choosing Lycanroc. Lycanroc could generally be unexpected and would be a very anticipated and hype character for Pokémon and Gen 7 fans, and moveset possibilities could pull in further hype for a possible fun/awesome looking character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

a very anticipated and hype character for Pokémon and Gen 7 fans.

This would definitely be a silent majority thing. Here, it'd be
WTF ANOTHER POKEMON? POKEMON CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER CHARACTER UNTIL EVERY VIDEO GAME DOES!
or
I wanted Decidueye...

 

[RandomAce]

This would definitely be a silent majority thing. Here, it'd be
WTF ANOTHER POKEMON? POKEMON CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER CHARACTER UNTIL EVERY VIDEO GAME DOES!
or
I wanted Decidueye...

I see where you’re going. But at the same time, Sakurai has shown to throw that out of the window at times...

I mean, remember Corrin and PP? Sakurai knew the stakes of adding these, but he went with it anyways due to being interested in working on them.

And as I said before. Lycanroc has definitely shown to have a lot of popularity among the Pokémon community, especially with TPC’s input on the trio. Of course, some people may react the way as you put it out, but with notable fan favorites in the game already, I don’t think most reactions are going to be as negative.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but with notable fan favorites in the game already, I don’t think most reactions are going to be as negative.

Isaac fans are gonna be pissed. They mostly want the """fair""" and """balanced""" roster, and would think Lycanroc's earthbending would hurt Isaac's chances, but I think they can coexist. After all, Isaac has plant and sword-based moves and could use Djinn, and Lycanroc would be more about claws, fangs, and agility.

 

[RandomAce]

Isaac fans are gonna be pissed. They mostly want the """fair""" and """balanced""" roster, and would think Lycanroc's earthbending would hurt Isaac's chances, but I think they can coexist. After all, Isaac has plant and sword-based moves and could use Djinn, and Lycanroc would be more about claws, fangs, and agility.

Sadly Isaac is one of the few notable ones not yet in, but yes I think they can coexist, and I doubt that it would be much of a problem for Isaac fans actually.

It’s been discussed before, but Lycanroc and Isaac are two entirely different characters, and even if they both share earthbending abilities they do it extremely differently, and Isaac has different tools as well to set him apart and make him unique. His most iconic move, well... Move along with Psynergy, isn’t even earth based, and immediately is something different by summoning a giant force field in the shape of a hand to attack.

Plus, Isaac still has his large popularity on his side. Their potential reasoning for inclusion would be dramatically different as well, that I doubt that they would cause each other to fall.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

He didn't say that at all. He said fighters ''new to the smash bros. series'', like Joker, ''characters you wouldn't anticipate to be in smash''.

Let me translate Reggie


"For DLC the fighters we picked are exciting to think about and when we reveal them you wont want to wait for them, and are going to be completely new".

In the eyes of Reggie he knows what the vast majority of people want, and mainly what they want is new Franchises, or Characters from Franchises that only have 1-3 Characters. And Reggie wants to make the people happy AND get more ports on switch (we now have A bunch of FF games on switch after all), so If Reggie, was single handedly picking the fighters, I dought he brought up another Pokemon. Granted Reggie wasn't singlehandedly picking the fighters, so Lycanroc has maybe been discussed, I don't exactly know, but inside of Pokemon we have no real competition

 

[Guynamednelson]

Frankly I think he was just flinging buzzwords around. Of course the DLC fighters are all gonna be new, they can't make veteran DLC for this game. Also I think it was Nintendo of Japan that chose the DLC.