Darxmarth23's analysis: MK's effect on Falcons tier placement. Now with social group

[Darxmarth23]

Im just doin this so i can get feedback on this thing. I want to see if ppl can learm from me or not. Im not going to post this in red.

As we all know Captain Falcons has, agin, remained the bottom of bottom tier. The SBR has given falcon a 1.67 out of 15.00. Meta knight however has a perfect score of 15.00 out of 15.00. We all know that falcon is not A-list material, and yet as discussed to death before, he isn't a total piece of crap. MK how ever has been given the glory of God tier. Now then, there might be a small chance that our placement can go up and the entire list can change. We might beat ganondorf and maybe uptoss link. How?

Now i know when i say this you all will be like, "Oh no. Never going to happen" and " not another one of these dudes again" and some will be like " i expected better from you DarX!"

Ban MK.


While reviewing the tier list i made some interesting observations.

Falco went up
D3 went down
R.O.B went down
Marth went up
Diddy went up

Now my hunches as to why these characters went up and down.

Falco was discussed as a potential counter to metaknight. He rose two spots.

D3 having learned almost no ATs he went down and faco surpassed him.

R.O.B was bumped down by MK

Marth havin some now grab release stuff on MK went up.

Diddy is a potential counter to MK.

To me it feels like the very first thing taken to account while the SBR was discussing the tier list was how well a character did against MK. I think he may have been used as a control group. After all, he did get a 100%, 15/15.

Now on captain falcons part:

I'm not going to elaborate, he can beat g-dorf. Ganon is not improving. No Ats or anything. Falcon maybe can get rid of link or jiggs too. But he might be bottom of bottom because the other characters may be better against MK.

MK i believe has affected the tier list by maybe 40%. He has too much dominance. We may also have been poorly represented in the SBR.

MK as broken as he is, will continue to increase his spam wave.

Either this stuff above, or my painkillers have been getting to me.

I am not criticizing the SBR in any way. A lot of SBroomers are my friends and i have great respect for them But i think that the issue of MK should be looked over again before the next tier list comes.


I hope im not crazy. Got any flames comments and/or constructive criticism? post it here.

Happy Brawling, Smashers!


P.S: I swear, we should start a rebellion or something. >.>
Okay so, the topic of a rebellion of smashers has gotten popular on this thread for the past few days. We can start this with a social group. I kinda want to moderate it, as of, i have some ideas. Discussions?

Regarding the ban thing, check this out:http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5806001&postcount=9885

This essay was made by Pierce7d, a highly knowledgable marth player. Credit for this essay goes to him. I am just sharing it with my fellow captain falcon mains.

Alright dudes, check it out. The rebellion has started.http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=660

 

[Zeallyx]

Good read.

Although falcon has less potential than link & jiggs (fact wise) the rest seems not far from the truth.

But I, myself, are against banning metaknight. For the simple reason that nothing keeps us from picking/playing/maining meta knight ourselves.

MK is a part of the game (unfortunatly imo) but that is just the way it is..

We should try to find some ways that will make the matchup a little more barable for us falcon's, but exept for that, there is not much we can do in my eyes

 

[Darxmarth23]

Thats the problem. Its either one way or the other and both aren't fair to me.

 

[Zeallyx]

Thats the problem. Its either one way or the other and both aren't fair to me.

I agree

but unfortunatly theres not much we can do

besides waiting for potential buffs for falcon in SSB4

also, lol you said you weren't going to post in red *10 lines or so down - red*

 

[Darxmarth23]

I agree

but unfortunatly theres not much we can do

besides waiting for potential buffs for falcon in SSB4

also, lol you said you weren't going to post in red *10 lines or so down - red*

I kinda meant that the whole thing in red. The parts i was really serious about was in red.

I also am kinda using some experience and background knowledge i have picked up. I used to main MK.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

I swear, we should start a rebellion or something. >.>

That would be BADA5S. A small battalion of rebel Falcon mains on a mission to destroy metaknight. Sounds like a movie plot if you ask me...

 

[Darxmarth23]

That would be BADA5S. A small battalion of rebel Falcon mains on a mission to destroy metaknight. Sounds like a movie plot if you ask me...

Acctually i kinda wanted to do something like this. A petition maybe... I feel like i shouldn't though b/c i have a past of ****** with MK.


Yet i feel like its my duty to end this reign of terror...












My Bad@$$ moment.

 

[Zeallyx]

sometimes we have to be weak to be strong..

lets invade some MK

 

[Darxmarth23]

sometimes we have to be weak to be strong..

lets invade some MK

I never thought you would acctually say it.

Should we start a petition or something?


Oh wait...you are being sarcastic right?

 

[Wogrim]

That would be BADA5S. A small battalion of rebel Falcon mains on a mission to destroy metaknight. Sounds like a movie plot if you ask me...

You make it sound like Star Wars.

 

[Zeallyx]

I never thought you would acctually say it.

Should we start a petition or something?


Oh wait...you are being sarcastic right?

No, I wasn't beeing sarcastic

But please know what we are about to try..we are trying to get a CHARACTER BANNED..thats like..

I'm willing to be a part of the 'invasion', but we must really stand behind our point.

This is not just 'some' mission

 

[Lareit]

MK has nothing to do with Falcon bottom of bottom.
Infact Marth and Falco have just as much if not more of an advantage then MK.
And shiek has a 0-death combo if she catches you slightly off the ground with F-tilt.

Falcon is bottom because he does poorly against every single character in the game. MetaKnight is just one of the worst matchups he has.

But frankly look at all the top tier chrs.

Snake has 70-30 simply using his tilts. Falcon is impervious to almost all of Snakes explosive mindgames due to his agility but the overwhelming power,range and speed of snake tilts versus falcons lack there of give him an easy win.

DDD is imo 75-25 due to falcon's limited range making all of his attacks easily shieldgrab. Then it's free damage and significiantly quicker KO time by comparison.

Falco and Marth both **** falcon 80/20
Diddy IS falcon with quicker attacks, better priority, banana tricks and a better grab game.

It goes on. MetaKnight is just one of many badmatchups. Him being banned is good for the game of Smash. Not the tier placement of Falcon.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

@Lariet
You sound like you WANT him on bottom. Banning metaknight would raise everyone up one position inherently raising Falcon one spot as well.

@DarxMarth
Feeling bad becuase of a history with MK? Did you know that I nearly mained the guy myself when Brawl first came out. Seeing what goes on now... what a relief that I didn't main him! You're by no means the only person who sees it that way. I say we start a clan or something!

 

[Lareit]

@Lariet
You sound like you WANT him on bottom. Banning metaknight would raise everyone up one position inherently raising Falcon one spot as well.

@DarxMarth
Feeling bad becuase of a history with MK? Did you know that I nearly mained the guy myself when Brawl first came out. Seeing what goes on now... what a relief that I didn't main him! You're by no means the only person who sees it that way. I say we start a clan or something!

Falcon would remain bottom of the new list, the list itself would simply be 1 character shorter.

And I do like knowing I play and compete and even win some with the absolute worst chr.

 

[Zeallyx]

@Lariet
You sound like you WANT him on bottom. Banning metaknight would raise everyone up one position inherently raising Falcon one spot as well.

@DarxMarth
Feeling bad becuase of a history with MK? Did you know that I nearly mained the guy myself when Brawl first came out. Seeing what goes on now... what a relief that I didn't main him! You're by no means the only person who sees it that way. I say we start a clan or something!

The BanMeta clan


catchy

 

[Face124]

Im just doin this so i can get feedback on this thing. I want to see if ppl can learm from me or not. Im not going to post this in red.

As we all know Captain Falcons has, agin, remained the bottom of bottom tier. The SBR has given falcon a 1.67 out of 15.00. Meta knight however has a perfect score of 15.00 out of 15.00. We all know that falcon is not A-list material, and yet as discussed to death before, he isn't a total piece of crap. MK how ever has been given the glory of God tier. Now then, there might be a small chance that our placement can go up and the entire list can change. We might beat ganondorf and maybe uptoss link. How?

Now i know when i say this you all will be like, "Oh no. Never going to happen" and " not another one of these dudes again" and some will be like " i expected better from you DarX!"

Ban MK.


While reviewing the tier list i made some interesting observations.

Falco went up
D3 went down
R.O.B went down
Marth went up
Diddy went up

Now my hunches as to why these characters went up and down.

Falco was discussed as a potential counter to metaknight. He rose two spots.
Fair enough
D3 having learned almost no ATs he went down and faco surpassed him.
Not relevant to the argument, IMO
R.O.B was bumped down by MK
Not sure it was soley by MK, but fine.
Marth havin some now grab release stuff on MK went up.
Grab release stuff on MK moved him up? You will obviously know more than me about Marth's current metagame and such, but I doubt that was the only Factor to his rising. Maybe it was the only MK related factor.
Diddy is a potential counter to MK.
Diddy is also a ****ing beast.

Remember Bowser and Yoshi? Both discussed as potential counters, both went down one spot.
To me it feels like the very first thing taken to account while the SBR was discussing the tier list was how well a character did against MK. I think he may have been used as a control group. After all, he did get a 100%, 15/15.

I heard that the SBR didn't vote MK 15.00, but rather he was the best character and was given that, and then characters below were given a number based on that.

Now on captain falcons part:

I'm not going to elaborate, he can beat g-dorf. Ganon is not improving. No Ats or anything. Falcon maybe can get rid of link or jiggs too. But he might be bottom of bottom because the other characters may be better against MK.

Doubtful. Ganondorf doesn't have many ATs, but Falcon doesn't have much either. As it stands Ganondorf is better than Falcon, and it would take quite a few new things for that to change. Also, I think Ganondorf has just as bad a matchup against MK as Falcon does, so it wouldn't really make any difference. Unless a character that was made poor by MK became more tournament viable after he got banned, and that character beasted Ganondorf but only did ok against Falcon. He will never beat Jiggs/Link unless, as lots of people say, a new AT or combo or something great is discovered for him.

MK i believe has affected the tier list by maybe 40%. He has too much dominance. We may also have been poorly represented in the SBR.

I'm not really sure how you can get a percentage like that, but I agree with the rest.

Either this stuff above, or my painkillers have been getting to me.

I am not criticizing the SBR in any way. A lot of SBroomers are my friends and i have great respect for them But i think that the issue of MK should be looked over again before the next tier list comes.


I hope im not crazy. Got any flames comments and/or constructive criticism? post it here.

Happy Brawling, Smashers!


P.S: I swear, we should start a rebellion or something. >.>

Ultimately, a small group of Falcon mains who are wanting to ban MK so that Falcon can rise on the tier list is not going to change the minds of 3/4 of the SBR. And it wouldn't make much difference to his placement anyway.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Ultimately, a small group of Falcon mains who are wanting to ban MK so that Falcon can rise on the tier list is not going to change the minds of 3/4 of the SBR. And it wouldn't make much difference to his placement anyway.

I see your points....they're good.

TO me it does sound like MKs dominance is affecting the tier list by quite a lot. He has an advantage over every character. To me if meta knight was banned then the list would change a lot. I did not know about the SBR thing though.

And this rebellion thing will most likely not happen. Being falcon mains we are rebels anyway. If ppl want, i can start a social group moderated by me or something.

--- Viva la Revolution!

 

[Face124]

I see your points....they're good.

TO me it does sound like MKs dominance is affecting the tier list by quite a lot. He has an advantage over every character. To me if meta knight was banned then the list would change a lot. I did not know about the SBR thing though.

And this rebellion thing will most likely not happen. Being falcon mains we are rebels anyway. If ppl want, i can start a social group moderated by me or something.

--- Viva la Revolution!

Thankyou. Man I don't think you're actually CAPABLE of being unfriendly

It will have no doubt at all, but I'm not too sure that it will have affected Falcon all too much.

Would the social group focus on the banning of MK or the rising of Falcon in specific? I've never seen one, but I would imagine there are PLENTY of "Ban MK" groups.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Thankyou. Man I don't think you're actually CAPABLE of being unfriendly

It will have no doubt at all, but I'm not too sure that it will have affected Falcon all too much.

Would the social group focus on the banning of MK or the rising of Falcon in specific? I've never seen one, but I would imagine there are PLENTY of "Ban MK" groups.

Oh trust me i can be unfriendly. I am one of the people who helped lower the spam on the marth boards. It was all through flaming.


Okay so i admit it 40% is too high, but i think MK does have somewhat of a controlling factor. The recent spam waves of MK have been wiping out nearly all of the characters that aren't A-list or above.

I think the topic of "Should Metaknight be banned" will come up again. Not soon but i think there is going to be another voting poll. I can feel it in my broken bones.

If i can create a social group and have it moderated my me or someone else we can for sure know how many ppl want MK to be banned.

It will focus on maybe getting rid of MK but not just for him being too hard to beat, but giving us fair play in the tier list. I guess we can just make it up as we go.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Oh trust me i can be unfriendly. I am one of the people who helped lower the spam on the marth boards. It was all through flaming.


Okay so i admit it 40% is too high, but i think MK does have somewhat of a controlling factor. The recent spam waves of MK have been wiping out nearly all of the characters that aren't A-list or above.

I think the topic of "Should Metaknight be banned" will come up again. Not soon but i think there is going to be another voting poll. I can feel it in my broken bones.

If i can create a social group and have it moderated my me or someone else we can for sure know how many ppl want MK to be banned.

It will focus on maybe getting rid of MK but not just for him being too hard to beat, but giving us fair play in the tier list. I guess we can just make it up as we go.

He still doesn't break the game. I mean, he breaks SOME CHARACTERS, but thats how it is in other fighters.

The path the community should go down is the path of a soft ban...
Let the n00bs use MK and get rapestomped, and the pros can use other characters and still rapestomp the n00bs using MK XD

 

[Foufy]

I don't think the tier list was created (or altered) based on MK
I see how he, being a perfect score, could be used to compare to everyone else. However, I don't think it was done that way.
Don't get me wrong, I think Falcon IS an awesome character to play with and I love playing with him, but I don't think is ranking is unjustified. He is a hard character to play with, which makes him such a fun main. I don't think fighting the fact that he is 1 of the worst characters is possible, but that doesn't mean that he's not worth playing.
So what if he's bottom tier, he CAN be amazing. He's not a lost cause, he has a chance against every character and that chance can be utilized by players who work hard and get good with him, it's just harder to win with him compared to everyone else, thats all the tier list is saying.

 

[Darxmarth23]

He still doesn't break the game. I mean, he breaks SOME CHARACTERS, but thats how it is in other fighters.

The path the community should go down is the path of a soft ban...
Let the n00bs use MK and get rapestomped, and the pros can use other characters and still rapestomp the n00bs using MK XD

Him breaking some of the characters is unjust, to me. I would rather have one broken character banned than having some characters almost unplayable in tourneys.

I don't think the tier list was created (or altered) based on MK
I see how he, being a perfect score, could be used to compare to everyone else. However, I don't think it was done that way.
Don't get me wrong, I think Falcon IS an awesome character to play with and I love playing with him, but I don't think is ranking is unjustified. He is a hard character to play with, which makes him such a fun main. I don't think fighting the fact that he is 1 of the worst characters is possible, but that doesn't mean that he's not worth playing.
So what if he's bottom tier, he CAN be amazing. He's not a lost cause, he has a chance against every character and that chance can be utilized by players who work hard and get good with him, it's just harder to win with him compared to everyone else, thats all the tier list is saying.

I never said that the entire list was based off of MKs match ups. I said that MKs match ups are the first thing used to rate characters on their placement. If this is true(I'm not in the SBR so i don't know) then he should be banned for sure. No character deserves a category all of their own.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Check it out, i started the rebellion. Added this link in OP

http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=660

 

[TP]

I'm not going to elaborate, he can beat g-dorf. Ganon is not improving. No Ats or anything.

You chose the worst possible time to say that. We are discussing three or four brand new things right now. Ganon loses to MK 15:85, so you aren't exactly unique in having a rough time with him. Yes, I agree that MK has a large effect on the tier list, but that is just how things are. The ability to fight MK is a very important aspect of tournament play... currently.

 

[Darxmarth23]

You chose the worst possible time to say that.
Lol. Guess i did.
We are discussing three or four brand new things right now.
Nice! For a time i thought the ganon boards were dead.
Ganon loses to MK 15:85, so you aren't exactly unique in having a rough time with him.
We have a common enemy...
Yes, I agree that MK has a large effect on the tier list, but that is just how things are.
His reign of terror will end...
The ability to fight MK is a very important aspect of tournament play... currently.
This
is
unacceptable....

DarX is Coming for YOU, MK!

 

[Zeallyx]

Oh lawdy, The Darx is loose ^_^

 

[RMMF]

Edit: I agree with your arguement Darx. To have a character in a game that is played competitively that is basically ranked in his own tier and not to mention highest is pretty lame. But I leave the banning to people who host the tournaments. IMO, dont flame me, I'd ban him. I think also Snake would just be bumped down(slightly).

In Addition:
Honestly IMO, tier list just give a general vague idea of disadvantages/advantages of characters. I think they arent 100% right, but they do provide a useful overview of who places where. So to people who say "tiers are for queers", yes they are, but you cant really blow it off.

You can criticize me, could care less lol...just throwing in my 2 cents.

I main Falcon that should clearly show my idea of the tier list.

 

[Dxkid]

Capt.Falcon should NOT be a bottom back at BFC ppl got on me bout Facts and how CF will NEVER be better especally in a tourny so i took the liberty on facin on of the best Ikes he we had some epic Brawls n i nearly PROVE to him that CF is not were he should be

CF should be at least in the Mid-Tier or somethin but TR4Q so it dosent matter to me lol

 

[SaltyKracka]

Capt.Falcon should NOT be a bottom back at BFC ppl got on me bout Facts and how CF will NEVER be better especally in a tourny so i took the liberty on facin on of the best Ikes he we had some epic Brawls n i nearly PROVE to him that CF is not were he should be

CF should be at least in the Mid-Tier or somethin but TR4Q so it dosent matter to me lol

Noob, either learn the English language, stop being a noob, or just shut up. Preferably the latter.

 

[Dxkid]

? i was jus speaking my opion n i know how to spell wtf

 

[Zeallyx]

? i was jus speaking my opion n i know how to spell wtf

You can't form an opinion about a fact.
And also, is it really that hard to type properly :/

 

[Dxkid]

It really is since im a terrible speller

but it was a state of my opinion but since i cant do that ill just listen to everyone has to say then :/

I was just sayin that CF should show some improvement but idk everyone would just bash me and call me a noob o well

 

[SaltyKracka]

? i was jus speaking my opion n i know how to spell wtf

1. You obviously don't know how to spell, given as how you don't.
2. The English language is not only about spelling, it is about forming coherent phrases and sentences, which requires grammar, something you do not obviously have.
3. You claim that it is a fact that Falcon should not be bottom tier, claim that you played one of the best Ikes out there (which I highly doubt) and almost convinced him that Falcon deserves to be higher (which I even more seriously doubt).
4. You go on to claim that Falcon should be Mid-tier, and then state that ridiculous motto of "Tiers are for queers"

You are, without a shadow of a doubt, a noob, an idiot, and someone whose opinion is worth less than my feces.

Now get the hell out of my sight.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Edit: I agree with your arguement Darx. To have a character in a game that is played competitively that is basically ranked in his own tier and not to mention highest is pretty lame. But I leave the banning to people who host the tournaments. IMO, dont flame me, I'd ban him. I think also Snake would just be bumped down(slightly).

In Addition:
Honestly IMO, tier list just give a general vague idea of disadvantages/advantages of characters. I think they arent 100% right, but they do provide a useful overview of who places where. So to people who say "tiers are for queers", yes they are, but you cant really blow it off.

You can criticize me, could care less lol...just throwing in my 2 cents.

I main Falcon that should clearly show my idea of the tier list.

No one is going to flame you. We dont really do that here. I agree with you.

I never though "Tiers are for queers." Its just this tier list i don't like. All the other tierlists in all the other games have been okay. I rationalized with each characters placement and saw why they were there, and it seemed just.

But this one i don't like.

Thank you for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[RMMF]

It really is since im a terrible speller

but it was a state of my opinion but since i cant do that ill just listen to everyone has to say then :/

I was just sayin that CF should show some improvement but idk everyone would just bash me and call me a noob o well

Lol welcome to the internet, just know what to say and what not to, thats all.

 

[Zeallyx]

It really is since im a terrible speller

but it was a state of my opinion but since i cant do that ill just listen to everyone has to say then :/

I was just sayin that CF should show some improvement but idk everyone would just bash me and call me a noob o well

If you have a handicap that prevents you from spelling properly, then I apologize.

But again, your 'opinion' about how falcon should be higher on the tier list, cannot be an opinion as it is based off of facts (incorrect facts, but facts)

 

[Dxkid]

Well i was kinda showin my *** my apoligies

I just never had good with spelling period

But i do go by the TR4Q thing but my site shoves it done my throat like im goin accept it which is bad im actually am o well

 

[illinialex24]

Jigglypuff is fairly good on MK, but she went down. However, she is one of the most forgotten characters in Brawl.

But this is what she has going for her:
Pretty decent on MK, one of the better matchups
Great matchup on Diddy Kong
Very manageable matchup on King Dedede

But she got jack. You would think 3 very winnable matchups from SS-A tier would boost her but instead she dropped. And she is a Diddy Kong counter in every sense of the word now. She can beat him out with aerials, is minimally affected by even the best banana throwers, has very legitimate abilities to gimp him, can rest him out of 2/3 smashes, can rest interrupt his crucial dash attack, and isn't easily gimped whatsoever by him.

And she fell a tier place.

This isn't to talk about Jigglypuff. Its about to say how important tourney placings are for the tier list. Falcon needs them.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I really think the list was thought through in a different way. This shouldn't be happening.

 

[Zeallyx]

Well i was kinda showin my *** my apoligies

I just never had good with spelling period

But i do go by the TR4Q thing but my site shoves it done my throat like im goin accept it which is bad im actually am o well

If you are not good at spelling, that is acceptable, offcourse..