Da Wolf Pack - Q&A/GD

[DrinkingFood]

what the **** is a flashwalk

 

[SinisterB]

It's that wolf exclusive moonwalk thing using his scar mechanics on slopes, Flashwalk is just the name i've been using for it cause i dunno what else to call it lol. I also have some Ness AT I call an airwalk lol, seems fitting.

people were talking about it in some thread a little while back

edit http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=332026

 

[DrinkingFood]

oh ok i thought that's what you meant i just wasn't familiar with the name you used for it so I didn't know for sure.

 

[SinisterB]

yeah i figured someone would just ask

cool AT though, the moonwalk is pretty massive on some stages (i.e Castle Siege)

 

[RaynEX]

You guys are putting in some work with Wolf. Can't wait to explore this new space animal with all of you. I'll be uploading match vids starting next week. Off to the lab!

 

[Scythe]

You guys are putting in some work with Wolf. Can't wait to explore this new space animal with all of you. I'll be uploading match vids starting next week. Off to the lab!

How's the pm scene in canada?

 

[RaynEX]

Unknown/KK/I.B./Weon-X have all tried it, but I don't know what their opinion of it was. I just got into it recently, but from what I understand there is massive interest here. Our scene is moderately sized and we have a bunch of great venues so I'm going to start hosting casuals / monthlies. I'm loving all the changes, P:M has added so much depth to a ton of characters. I'll be playing ALOT, while putting forth an effort to get others to do the same.

It helps that Wolf is like Fox revisited...so much undiscovered tech / combos / flashy **** it makes me excited about smash again. I can't wait to share tech haha

edit: I'm in Toronto on the EC, btw. I know Vwins/Kage + Quebec love P:M and play regularly. WC Canada I'm not sure about though.

 

[Scythe]

awesome stuff it'll be cool to see what you come up with for Wolf. He's definitely has potential for some very flashy and cool combos.
I'm not sure how far you guys are from chicago but we've got a pretty nice PM scene and we've got some big tourneys coming up that are melee/pm. You should check it out!

 

[SinisterB]

Damn, looking forward to that RaynEX, along with all those videos. Can't wait to see your take on Wolf as well as EC smash.

PM is great over here by the way, in BC Canada. Lot's of smashfests weekly along with monthlies, alongside Brawl & Melee respectively. We also play with Washington occasionally. A few of us will actually be streaming tomorrow at our usual channel, http://www.twitch.tv/projectmelee

Would totally be cool if you stopped by, and feel free to follow as well.

Much love from the best West Coast!



edit

My b, apparently that was our old stream channel. Edited in the new one.

 

[RaynEX]

Scythe: Chi city is pretty far, but I've been out to MI for Big House. Assuming it's close (I know Kels came to every Big House) and they have P:M, maybe we can get games in sometime. I've watched a few of your matches; you play really clean.

SinisterB: Hey now, EC is and will always be the best. But you guys aren't that thaaaat bad . I'm going through the archives now, I might pop on the stream tmr if I have the time.

 

[Rat]

Aw man I want to see what EC comes up with. Wuf's too fun.

This is coming up in Ann Arbor. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286110
No PM announced but I'm pretty sure I could come and run it. (again...)




Also @ Scythe and other wofls.
Why is DashA so freakin good?

 

[Scythe]

it scoops delicious combos for wolf to devour

 

[SinisterB]

om nom nom nom

 

[RaynEX]

I wish dash attack didn't have that delayed animation. Sometimes I try to predict a dashdance -> run back with it, and Wolf goes through them completely. -_-

Also, nair is amazing...but he might need a sex kick or something with range. So hard to approach with him against the better characters.

 

[Scythe]

yeah wolf loses everytime he tries to clash with fox/falco.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

wolf does not need a sex kick at all and his nair is amazing

 

[GMaster171]

wolf does not need a sex kick at all and his nair is amazing

Erryone listen to this guy, he knows whats up.

I don't really see any changes he needs at the moment, imo all Wolf needs is more time.

 

[Scythe]

yo i started lasering more, good stuff.

 

[GMaster171]

Laser pokes platforms from underneath, and covers the angle above Wolf extremely well if you learn to time it right (an angle which is also covered by uair, but uair doesn't shoot a projectile, nor is it WLable.)

Yes, use it more.

Also, has anyone else tried b-throw chain grabs? I find they work on mid weights rather well, except its a little ruined by DI I think. However DI in lets you nair/dair for regrab, or shine for combo/kill, while DI out seems to let you link shine or DA rather well. I haven't been able to extensively test it (as I just started using it on my unsuspecting friend last weekend, and CPUs don't DI), but still the free 4-6% you can get off of even one chain is kinda worth it in the long run, if you mix it up every couple throws. Not the thing you want to go for every throw, but still another tool to look into imo.

Finally, which moves haven't you guys linked to side-b so far. I'm down to bair, nair, d/f-throw and d-tilt. Mostly everything else I have gotten to link at some point. Side-b is just too fun.

 

[Scythe]

pretty much every move combos into flash, although it seems down air is the most reliable.

 

[Rat]

yo i started lasering more, good stuff.

Ok so there's this spacing against fox/falco that laser is pretty good.

It's like right at the edge of the their Running SH NAir space. But you gotta run away and then B-reverse it.
If they come in they get sliced.

(Not a fool proof plan FYI cause Fox is amazing.)

 

[RaynEX]

I never even go for the side+B, I'm always afraid I'll miss. Dair on grounded opponents always knocks the opponent up+away so I hear Scythe on that, especially at higher percents. Are there any other consistent safe ways of landing it? I see people do shine JC illusion, but it looks kinda unreliable.

 

[Scythe]

i usually only go for the flash kill off stage after a down air since it is guaranteed and if i miss then that's just my error and i'll do better next time.

As far as other setups go, you can get it after shine, bair and uair but the hitstun isn't as long so you pretty much have to go for a read flash kill i guess. It those situations I usually don't risk it off the stage.

For practice in getting kills with flash, I just focus on flash kill setups during friendlies in order to get in game practice at it since DI is always different. Also a couple times I have been able to cancel flash if i see that I will miss and some cases I have connected with flash after a good cancel.

 

[GMaster171]

Uair is really only reliable when falling (hit and l-cancel pretty much the same time). b-throw goes perfectly to it on almost everyone (as you can angle it), almost regardless of DI. I agree dair and shine are the best ways. I also heavily agree with throwing Flashes out more often in friendlies. My friend laughs at how I SD every once in awhile, but gets annoyed at 60% kills at the edge.

Question: Follow ups of jab? Iv been using full jab combo, but I'm pretty sure he can get much much more off of it. I go for d-smash every once in awhile, but I'm looking for even more, like if grab/shine is guaranteed. I don't have the ability to test this atm, does anyone know about this?

 

[SinisterB]

money matched Silent Wolf saturday, his wolf is tight

got *****

i'mma get him next time doe


ps. most of Wolf's stuff can be followed up by Flash with correct spacing (low mid-high %), down angled mid-cancel or late cancel especially are really effective for catching aerial opponents after launchers like DAir, Shine, UAir, ect. And full cancels can be cool for tech chase or on platforms paired with Blaster for coverage.

 

[RaynEX]

I'm going to have to try this stuff out. But when you say angle Gmaster...you mean the side+B trajectory can actually be altered with the joystick?

A long time ago a Jiggs player in my region (Idea) asked how he should go about getting better at hitting rest. It's a risky move to just throw out, so I encouraged him to do it in friendlies when nothing was at stake. Had I not been able to talk this out with you like-minded individuals, I would have completely neglected my own advice in regards to using Wolf's illusion.

These small occurrences always remind me why the forums have been so invaluable during my growth as player. Minimum of 20 flash attempts per stock, let's go!

 

[SinisterB]

ya

Flash can be angled up or down alongside it's normal trajectory + 4 shorten lengths

 

[Gimpyfish62]

flash can be angled up and down? boooom my brain

 

[GMaster171]

Yus, further reason why its one of the best moves in the game. Its a very slight angle, but its often the difference between hitting/missing or overshooting the edge/hugging the ledge.

May have anti spacie tech to share later today, depending on how it works. I have a few ideas in mind other than trying to waveshine/CG, and I'm pretty sure they will work.

 

[Scythe]

when you are on the ledge you can alter the height of the flash to change whether you will flash on stage or back to the ledge. (credit to Rat)

 

[RaynEX]

I see. So only up or down and its a minor difference? I must have been doing it wrong, I didn't really notice when I tried last night. I'll give it another shot.

As for combo ideas, I've been developing a few of them too, especially for low %s against fastfallers. It's been hard to find a consistent starter but I think I figured it out the other day. I tested these with people to confirm that they do work on d.i. away / survival d.i. Also, the opponent was usually Falco for these, but I've tested on Fox / Falcon / Wolf as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

CGs: From around 10% or so you can chaingrab most fastfallers with uthrow. Uthrow -> dash attack starts comboing at percents when the re-grab doesn't work. CG works on Falcon starting from 0%.

0 - 15% (imo this should be Wolf's staple starter, it never fails)
- Nair / Dair, shine JC Fair (TIPPED), dash grab

25% - 60% (important % to remember)
- Nair / Dair, waveshine grab

25% - 50% (this is the most exciting combo I found, very consistent!)
- Nair / Dair, shine JC delayed uair -> dash grab / dash attack / fsmash

40% - 85% (another really important go-to combo)
- Nair, shine, dash attack -> juggle

Other stuff:

0 - 10% (must be close, non-tipped fair)
- Nair / Dair, shine JC Fair, land waveshine, grab.

40% - 47%
- Dair, utilt, fsmash

 

[SinisterB]

when you are on the ledge you can alter the height of the flash to change whether you will flash on stage or back to the ledge. (credit to Rat)

this also works with late shortens and normal angle

 

[Scythe]

I see. So only up or down and its a minor difference? I must have been doing it wrong, I didn't really notice when I tried last night. I'll give it another shot.

As for combo ideas, I've been developing a few of them too, especially for low %s against fastfallers. It's been hard to find a consistent starter but I think I figured it out the other day. I tested these with people to confirm that they do work on d.i. away / survival d.i. Also, the opponent was usually Falco for these, but I've tested on Fox / Falcon / Wolf as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

CGs: From around 10% or so you can chaingrab most fastfallers with uthrow. Uthrow -> dash attack starts comboing at percents when the re-grab doesn't work. CG works on Falcon starting from 0%.

0 - 15% (imo this should be Wolf's staple starter, it never fails)
- Nair / Dair, shine JC Fair (TIPPED), dash grab

25% - 60% (important % to remember)
- Nair / Dair, waveshine grab

25% - 50% (this is the most exciting combo I found, very consistent!)
- Nair / Dair, shine JC delayed uair -> dash grab / dash attack / fsmash

40% - 85% (another really important go-to combo)
- Nair, shine, dash attack -> juggle

Other stuff:

0 - 10% (must be close, non-tipped fair)
- Nair / Dair, shine JC Fair, land waveshine, grab.

40% - 47%
- Dair, utilt, fsmash

cool stuff, i'll need to try these out, it's too bad my main practice partner only plays bowser : /

 

[GMaster171]

I'm sorry guys, my theorized combo doesn't work. I had thought that Shine->Bayonet->laser->WL shine would work.

I had thought that because of the bayonet's tragectory, and the shots ability to reset KB, it would work, but due to KBS, it doesn't. They are still too high to regrab, or even really follow up.

Uhhg, back to thinking, and having fun.

 

[RaynEX]

I'm sorry guys, my theorized combo doesn't work. I had thought that Shine->Bayonet->laser->WL shine would work.

I had thought that because of the bayonet's tragectory, and the shots ability to reset KB, it would work, but due to KBS, it doesn't. They are still too high to regrab, or even really follow up.

Uhhg, back to thinking, and having fun.

Shine JC laser -> waveland -> utilt works. You have to intentionally omit the bayonette hit. The hitstun provided by the shine (also the trajectory) puts characters in the perfect position to be hit by the laser. Utilt is the only thing I've gotten to legitimately combo though. In my experience the bayonette itself is what messes up the combo, so it's probably in your best interest to leave it out.

cool stuff, i'll need to try these out, it's too bad my main practice partner only plays bowser : /

Most of that stuff works on other characters too. The fat characters (Bowser / DK / DDD / Charizard / Ganon) are combo food. Anything works on them pretty much.

Against Bowser specifically, Nair / Dair, waveshine grab works from 0. At low percents, if Bowser d.i.s the bthrow poorly because of the throw mix-up, dash attack actually combos. Continue from there into whatever you want. But the absolute best thing I've found for Bowser to get a guaranteed 30%+ is:

0 - 20% (non-tipped Fair, must be close)
- any aerial, waveshine, SH fair, land beneath Bowser, waveshine, SH uair -> whatever you want.

D.i. doesn't matter, and it's been working on all the big guys. I know that Wolf has a fundamental juggle game (similar to Falco's dair shine on spacies), so I'm determined to figure it out and max out his damage potential when he lands a hit.

 

[Scythe]

honestly i feel that fast fallers are far and away the hardest characters for wolf to combo.

 

[RaynEX]

Agreed.
10agrees

 

[G13_Flux]

well then just tech chase them XD wolf has some great chasing abilities. but also, ive found that wolf has a largely different combo game against floaties than fastfallers, however, he CAN combo them hard. Something that works really well (gotta get like 10-15 % on them first if its spacees/falcon) is uthrow > imediate uair with a SH > FF > grab > repeat a couple times. by the time DI can start to kill this, then just dash attack, which will set you up for a bair > DA again, or uair strings, or even a dair if you wanna tech chase. someting i reccomend also, try WDing out of shine. i feel that often times it sets up for more since you have better positioning, and it allows you to read DI more efficiently.

Additionally, i am an absolute advocate that wolf does not need a sex kick. if you are to the point where u are trying to get trades with fox and falco like you are peach, then you arent using wolfs tools right. take advantage of his insane air mobility, his amazing SHFFL, and his ranged aerials (fair and bair are more ranged than any of the other two spacees aerials, especially when the fair is a retreating one). also, dont use his nair as liberally as you would fox/falcos, nair. it functions similarly, but with wolfs highly different playstle, you should use it different situations.

 

[SinisterB]

nvm

 

[SpiderMad]

Wolf benefits from two of these projectile techniques so I'm posting my description of this here
http://youtu.be/87G-nPP4Njo
not all of this is in the video but can be implied
Reflect projectile > JC throw forward
Shine pressure (Shine their shield) > JC throw forward (If they get pushed too far to punish with grab)
Shine pressure (Shine their shield) > JC throw downward to make them trip (If they are close enough)
SH/Ledge jump Laser to AGT of Item using the AD cancel

wish i had a Wii so i could practice this stuff, should be at a smashfest tonight and it could be streamed, so maybe i'll post that here later

I managed to download roughly 2/3 of the stream, I think Kirk didn't save it from expiring (nothing that amazing was done/lost so it's fine) so If you remember you doing any good matches/combos for a combo video I could look for it lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEiOGqbze_k I only remember this match having crazy combos (you repeat that Shine DJ Dair to D-smash thing a lot in different matches I watched, it seems you've made it a nice staple).

I think ORO had some long ZSS combos but I don't remember any of them ending with a kill.