D.Gray-Man Mafia-Town Wins!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: Murky question, let me clarify. I meant: Is it because they're using meta that you are voting them?

More or less, and the recent stuff they have done.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Town -
Erupting Burning Ryker
WashedLaundry
Red Ruy (probably)
Gordito


Null -
Gova
Inglorious *******
Asdioh
July
AA


Scum -
I don't have any technically concrete scum-reads but be damn sure any of those nulls will be scum sometime in this game; but also turn town.

@Soup:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=165
Answer my gogdamn question.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i just did rofl god

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

More or less, and the recent stuff they have done.

Finally.

What do you say about this:

@WL: Meta is useful in the early stages of a game and I'll use it however I damn well please.

In comparison to what IR has done?

Gorf may feel free to answer this question but I like his answer a lot more than Soup's.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

IR has even really even stated how he has or has not used meta, EBR, however, has stated how they used it and etc.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

But that's not the point here. The point is that EBR has blatantly said they'll use meta if they need it. IR has looked for meta as well. EBR was using meta on you to start, IR was looking for meta on Bardull to read him. Why is it not okay for IR to do it, yet it's okay for EBR to do it? Explain it to me, Soup.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

~June 21, 2011. 3:21 PM

I'll explain in a bit.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

But that's not the point here. The point is that EBR has blatantly said they'll use meta if they need it. IR has looked for meta as well. EBR was using meta on you to start, IR was looking for meta on Bardull to read him. Why is it not okay for IR to do it, yet it's okay for EBR to do it? Explain it to me, Soup.

I never said it wasn't okay for IR do it, i told him if he tried NOT relying on meta, then don't use it, if EBR wants to use meta, then let him.

It's not the key term of 'meta' that i am voting IR, it's that IR wants to use meta as an excuse, EBR is not doing that.

 

[Gova]

@Gheb, I don't think the things said about you will stick. I personally don't see what the big deal is either about trying to read a new dgames player. I think the problem is that you didn't have a satisfactory answer with what you were doing, or planning on doing with the knowledge once your question had been answered.

not sure if serious july.

in fact, i'm not sure if i'm serious about you being town.
*golf clap.*

I almost didn't see this at first, but this is a very subtle way to cast doubt on July especially when you had her as town earlier. Why did your read change?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

one of the main reasons is the weird FoS on Red Ryu, but i suppose i can make a little bit more of a case on her slot.

 

[July]

How does now knowing that JTB had been the only one posting up until the time of this post affect your read on IR?

My read on IR has honestly been null, and I can't say this changes it all that much. IR's posts up to this point have been careless and I expect better from scum Gheb. Knowing now that it has only been JTB posting so far, I can understand some suspicions, but I think there is a good chance they are just stupid posts. The only two games I've been in with JTB he's been lynched D1 for this kind of crap, and both times he was town. And that sudden wagon that pushed him to L-1 only reinforces that belief, especially watching as Asdioh scummily jumped on that wagon once he felt too much pressure, either trying to look more town or provoke a lynch other than his own.

I kinda thought the same thing, but can you really cast suspicion for that? Activity is a null tell for now. Better to not exhaust your energy into somebody that's not even here, if you get what I'm saying.

not sure if serious july.

in fact, i'm not sure if i'm serious about you being town.
*golf clap.*

I deff understand what you are saying, Gord. I use the term FoS pretty loosely. I didn't seriously mean to cast suspicion on him, I really just wanted some pressure on him to talk. In that sense, Soup, I was serious that I would like to hear from him and that I was interested in his thoughts so far. But I'm not seriously suspicious of him for it; that FoS is not going to manifest into a vote because of something so trivial.

i just don't even know anymore, to save me time and aneryusms:


Town -
Erupting Burning Ryker
WashedLaundry
Red Ruy (probably)
Gordito


Null -
Gova
Inglorious *******
Asdioh
July
AA


Scum -
I don't have any technically concrete scum-reads but be damn sure any of those nulls will be scum sometime in this game; but also turn town.

Are PaprikaKiller and Bardull null as well? Also can you explain your "probably town" read on Red Ryu?

one of the main reasons is the weird FoS on Red Ryu, but i suppose i can make a little bit more of a case on her slot.

How did you feel about asianaussie's FoS following mine?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I use the term FoS pretty loosely. I didn't seriously mean to cast suspicion on him, I really just wanted some pressure on him to talk. In that sense, Soup, I was serious that I would like to hear from him and that I was interested in his thoughts so far. But I'm not seriously suspicious of him for it; that FoS is not going to manifest into a vote because of something so trivial.

FoS is usually not something as trivial as "i don't like that he edited that out, let's use a FoS on him." and you did, how do you feel about him now?

How did you feel about asianaussie's FoS following mine?

I'm un-decided, reads to me as scummy for the most part.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Bardull is null too, i haven't payed attention to him, his lack of contributing is noted as a newbie player.

TPK, eh, same diff here.

because ruy is usually town.

 

[July]

FoS is usually not something as trivial as "i don't like that he edited that out, let's use a FoS on him." and you did, how do you feel about him now?

I already explained that I use the term loosely, I like FoSs for slight pressure and I do not think it was inappropriate here. And you are misconstruing me there. I don't care that he edited something out. I cared that he was clearly in the thread and hadn't posted at all yet, so I nudged him to provide his input. He is still null to me, his first post was alright.

because ruy is usually town.

That's not a legit reason for him to be "probably town". If that's the only reason so far, considering most of the people on your null list are usually town too, it doesn't seem like a solid reason for someone to be considered town.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@july: How is his reasoning for rr town any different than Scumdios bull**** read on WL during the beginning of the game which you didnt seem to have a problem with.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Also can you remind me why your vote is on Asdioh because I seem to remember your reasoning being based on the type of questions he asked in early game which has been since cleared up.

 

[asianaussie]

It's not the key term of 'meta' that i am voting IR, it's that IR wants to use meta as an excuse, EBR is not doing that.

Clarify for me, do you mean that IR is fluffing using meta, or what? Not sure what you're trying to say.

@WL, what was your reasoning for voting IR prior to page 5? You stated you had a reason and dropped it. Pretty sure it's been discussed to hell and back, you won't be influencing many answers.

@JTBhead, what made me the most scummy after Asdioh? That post alone? Why didn't you see my question as rhetorical when it clearly was (I summarised the bulk of your posts up to then...>_>) and react like that anyway?

Looking to hear from Paprika and Bar. omg im the one asking for activity for once :o

As for that FoS, I could've just asked RR in writing why he didn't post, but I feel a strong nudge beats a suggestive prod. So it's clear, I don't read him as scum from something like that.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I already explained that I use the term loosely, I like FoSs for slight pressure and I do not think it was inappropriate here. And you are misconstruing me there. I don't care that he edited something out. I cared that he was clearly in the thread and hadn't posted at all yet, so I nudged him to provide his input. He is still null to me, his first post was alright.



That's not a legit reason for him to be "probably town". If that's the only reason so far, considering most of the people on your null list are usually town too, it doesn't seem like a solid reason for someone to be considered town.

then good, that's all i wanted was a read.

ruy is probably town for now, simple as that, i seen his catch-up case, it was pretty good, therefore, probably town.

Clarify for me, do you mean that IR is fluffing using meta, or what? Not sure what you're trying to say.

No, what i'm saying is that IR stated he did not want to use meta to factor his reads but asked for meta on bardull, after concluding that, he didn't ever follow-up on it, and stifled with getting anything out.

i even asked him his reads WITHOUT meta, but i assume the gheb side of the hydra answered for him.

 

[asianaussie]

That's fine.

Also Soup, that RR read isn't half-based on...probability, is it? That's actually worse than Asdioh's vibe read.

His catchup post was pretty arbitrary imo, didn't feel complete - he questioned WL and then gave him brownie points in the same post. It's like he's typing it up as he's reading for the first time. Null if anything.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

aa it's like a batch of burnt cookies, you get what you got, but you will eat them anyway, and complain.

aa, if you've ever played a game with RR, he is always scummy when i know he isn't trying to be, but it's usually how it is.

 

[asianaussie]

I wouldn't eat burnt cookies.

Either way I'm null on RR.

 

[July]

@july: How is his reasoning for rr town any different than Scumdios bull**** read on WL during the beginning of the game which you didnt seem to have a problem with.

Asdioh's read on WL is much scummier than Soup's reasons for Red Ryu town, that doesn't mean I can't question Soup as to his rationale. Soup's read was also based off only one legitimate post from Red Ryu. And I did have problems with Asdioh's suspicions of WL, and I addressed what issues I had with them that hadn't already been addressed by others in my #155.

Also can you remind me why your vote is on Asdioh because I seem to remember your reasoning being based on the type of questions he asked in early game which has been since cleared up.

Because Asdioh is still my strongest scum pick. As for my case on him:

I already addressed #54 and #57, where Asdioh asks questions with nothing to gain from them and then asks about a "master of flavor" which was a strange question and gave me a scummy vibe.

This post actually didn't bother me all that much:

unvote
Vote: Washedlaundry

y u no feel town? Ever since your first post you've seemed grimier than the townWL I'm used to seeing. Speaking of your first post:

This confused me because I looked, and I don't see EBR directing anything at you?

@EBR: where is your Soup scumread coming from? I don't think I've ever played a game where he was scum.

Because I was wondering about what WL meant by that in his first post as well. WL explained it, Asdioh didn't let up on him but his next few posts didn't seem all that significant, as he just rambled on about the same things with WL. His first part of #143 was just confusing and clumsy to me, I didn't realize the contradictions in it until Gord and I believe Gova pointed them out.

I had issues with his #147, where he has issues with WL but not with Gord for the same thing, which was expressing suspicions of Soup.

Finally, his switch from WL (because he's a sucker for multiposting?) to IR in post #167 was ridiculously scummy (as I explained in my #211).

 

[Inglorious Retards]

@Gheb, I don't think the things said about you will stick. I personally don't see what the big deal is either about trying to read a new dgames player. I think the problem is that you didn't have a satisfactory answer with what you were doing, or planning on doing with the knowledge once your question had been answered.

Really? I think JTB's argument that knowing whether Bardull has been scum before or not can give us some useful insight on how he would likely react when put under pressure was pretty good. Likewise it's safe to assume that he'd played differently if it wasn't his 5th game but his 1st and that he'd be more likely to make a newbie mistake. Now we at least know that he can't use it as an excuse and also that he won't crack to pressure in a newbiesque way where it's not sure if it's scummy or - well - newbiesqe.

And I still maintain that EBR completely hyperboled the point. Not only would there have been no issue with Bardull simply answering and getting the issue over with but also does he himself actually hint at the whole thing being a null tell [covering that in my next post]. If he claims that JTB has done nothing else than to question the meta then he's a liar first of all [because of the legitimacy of his points vs Asdioh] and even if it was the case then it'd be his own fault for keeping JTB under pressure for it. JTB only extensively tried to cover his issue because EBR [and the other people who followed the wagon] made such a big deal out of it.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Its nice that you can't find any blatantly anti-town implications from such a question. However, tell me Gheb. What pro-town implications can you draw from it? None.

To compound to my previous point, this is what I was referring to. If this isn't a clear-cut hint at him seeing it as a null-tell himself then I don't know what else this is supposed to be. Ignoring the fact that there are pro-town implications as I pointed out above this is still not something you can hold against him. Especially since the following point is evidently wrong:

The point im getting that is your slot came into the game focusing and sticking to an unimportant issue that provided you a way to generate content. There was nothing of value he could have gained from Bardull's answer and he tapered off from posting altogether once other players began grilling him for legitimate material. He came in last night trying to switch gears and throw suspicion on Asdioh, the next largest bandwagon and buddying WL

Yeah, that's totally not OK at all. First you accuse him of playing too much with meta. And now that he's trying to stop it and do something pro-active it suddenly becomes suspicious as well? Well then tell me, if he's supposed to stop talking about meta, what's the problem with him stopping to talk about meta? You say he's suspicious because he's doing X and that's not OK because he's supposed to do Y. But then you turn around and say it's OK of him to do Y? That's exactly the kind of "scapegoating" I was referring to earlier. Coupled with your failure to actually take his points on Asdioh into closer consideration I take it that you don't actually have anything in particular against this player slot because on the one hand you accuse JTB of providing nothing other than meta-information [which I once again like tto point out has not "no pro-town implications" as you put it] but you also sweep the fact that his argument against Asdioh has a lot of merit under the rug.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

EBWOP:

"You say he's suspicious because he's doing X and that's not OK because he's supposed to do Y. But then you turn around and say it's OK of him to do Y?"

... is supposed to be: "and say it's NOT OK of him to do Y?"

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Gord (0)
ThePaprikaKiller (0)
Red Ryu (0)
July (0)
Bardull (0)
Asdioh (4) -Gova, July, IR, Gord
soup (0) -
laundry (0)-
Gova (0)
Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!! (Ryker/Kuz) (0)
Inglorious ******* (JTB/Gheb)(4)- Soup, WL,, asdioh, AA


Bardull has requested replacement

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

GLG replaces BArdull

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

~June 22, 2011. 9:55 AM

God soup you take too long to not answer a question well.

What do you say about this:

@WL: Meta is useful in the early stages of a game and I'll use it however I damn well please.

In comparison to what IR has done?

The difference between EBR and ****** is that EBR has proved that meta is not going to stop or prevent his play from happening, when ****** basically uses the lack of meta as an excuse for why he's NOT doing shiz. Condensed: EBR still played the game, while ****** didn't.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Vote: Inglorious *******

Hey Gheb, your scum is showing.

224 is such complete bull**** in so many ways.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

That may singlehandedly be the scummiest post I've ever seen him write.

I'll rip it apart when I get my computer back.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

~June 22, 2011. 10:57 AM

@Mod request people not voting to be shown at the bottom of the votecount.

For convenience.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I never said it wasn't okay for IR do it, i told him if he tried NOT relying on meta, then don't use it, if EBR wants to use meta, then let him.

It's not the key term of 'meta' that i am voting IR, it's that IR wants to use meta as an excuse, EBR is not doing that.

How so?

(Will explain my vote after Soup answers this question.)

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: And I thought your vote was based on meta, not on the use of it?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm un-decided, reads to me as scummy for the most part.

You seem as indecisive as I did when the game started. If you had such a problem with my indecisiveness, why are you sluggish in making choices? It seems incredibly wishy-washy from you, Soup.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

No, what i'm saying is that IR stated he did not want to use meta to factor his reads but asked for meta on bardull, after concluding that, he didn't ever follow-up on it, and stifled with getting anything out.

i even asked him his reads WITHOUT meta, but i assume the gheb side of the hydra answered for him.

Oh alright. I get what you're trying to say.

The point of these questions were to check and see if others voting for IR were scum trying to mechanically scumhunt. If IR was guilty for meta (and Soup answering that he was voting IR for meta), then I wanted to make the comparison to EBR and see if he had or gained suspicions for EBR for wanting to use meta. If he did, I probably would've read him as scum. Considering it as "not being sold" on the "SoupvWash is TvT" thing earlier.

That dissonance is exactly why I'm voting IR over Asdioh, though Asdioh's scum is incredibly showing. I don't like how Gheb is showing up and deflecting to his partner's head, rather than trying to save the slot through his own efforts. I also don't like the use of meta as an excuse and, as EBR has been hammering about, the only thing you'll get out of it is maybe a Bardull read, if that, but considering that IR thought that Bardull had only been town in the games he had played, he wouldn't get scum meta. Like Soup and Gorf have said, IR has been using this as a handicap and not really playing the game, sitting like an obstinate toddler without his binky in a corner pouting. His most recent posts have been trying to buddy me along with really defensive posts. I don't see any proaction from Gheb, and that's weird. Gheb is usually one of the more proactive guys on the site.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Let's see if I can read and catch up now.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You seem as indecisive as I did when the game started. If you had such a problem with my indecisiveness, why are you sluggish in making choices? It seems incredibly wishy-washy from you, Soup.

I just need a little bit more from aa, that's all, along with alot of other people.

Also wl, i see what you're getting at with the toddler babysitting of JTB, gheb has to excuse anything his other head has done, and it's not looking good.

 

[Gova]

I don't like how Gheb is showing up and deflecting to his partner's head, rather than trying to save the slot through his own efforts.

Didn't Gheb just come in defending his partner's actions? That doesn't seem like deflecting to me.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

He has done it earlier. Yes, I just saw the posts where he's defending his partner. But there were slight deflections to JTB's head on the earlier AA suspicions. It's a null point now.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

To compound to my previous point, this is what I was referring to. If this isn't a clear-cut hint at him seeing it as a null-tell himself then I don't know what else this is supposed to be. Ignoring the fact that there are pro-town implications as I pointed out above this is still not something you can hold against him. Especially since the following point is evidently wrong:



Yeah, that's totally not OK at all. First you accuse him of playing too much with meta. And now that he's trying to stop it and do something pro-active it suddenly becomes suspicious as well? Well then tell me, if he's supposed to stop talking about meta, what's the problem with him stopping to talk about meta? You say he's suspicious because he's doing X and that's not OK because he's supposed to do Y. But then you turn around and say it's OK of him to do Y? That's exactly the kind of "scapegoating" I was referring to earlier. Coupled with your failure to actually take his points on Asdioh into closer consideration I take it that you don't actually have anything in particular against this player slot because on the one hand you accuse JTB of providing nothing other than meta-information [which I once again like tto point out has not "no pro-town implications" as you put it] but you also sweep the fact that his argument against Asdioh has a lot of merit under the rug.

Honestly, the lack of a defense against the "sticking to an unimportant issue to generate content" part is the part that worries me most. That's probably the most telling part of this defense, he can't defend against it. All it is is whining about a situation EBR has put him in.

Where is this argument against Asdioh?