Connecticut Power Rankings discussion UPDATED,BRAWL RANKINGS UP

[KevinM]

I think Falco has a definite advantage over IC's. You guys say if he gets grabbed he's done, but thats true for all of the characters that play the ICs. He has a lot of options to avoid being grabbed, his Fsmash when properly spaced can be used without retaliation and his shine out of shield beats those stupid Jab Grab set-ups.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Kevin did you play falco vs kyu's icies?

 

[Prince Of Fire]

LOL at Samus being good VS Falco at all Mogwai.

(This is coming from the guy who thinks Falco is the second best in the game....)

yay for him not being able to see this. lol

 

[_V_]

I hating playing against Samus >.>

Insta-win vs me is to go Samus...or Fox, but if people don't know that by now then where have you been?!?!

 

[SwiftBass]

Sheding light on IC vs falco/fox.


C-stick buffers roll/spot dodge out of basic IC chaingrab so whoever said its done when falco gets grabbed is wrong. wobbling is the only way its really done. Smash DI gets away from the blizzard regrab and the Fthrow> FthrowCG only works near the edge and is still janky unless ur name is Wobbles the Pheonix.


aerial game is on lock, falco has free aerial approaches and DEF on platforms.

he does have a lazer so if he desires to not attack at all he can(or at least appear to be......the option of lazering by it self is dangerous enough)

falco has a gimp on IC.

thats it for the givens. I wanna tackle recovery. YES falco's recovery sucks balls but I do not think that he suffers from gimps in the matchup so I feel like the bad recovery argument doesnt stick. If you DI decently the whole match the majority of the time you should be getting instant killed or sent beyond reasonable distance. Think about it.......IC doesnt grab combo you across the stage and edgeguard you like marth or shiek. IC is relatively stationary with their "combos" off the grab and do not create nearly as many gimp situations as marth or shiek. Plus IC deal LOTS of damage per hit so I feel that majority of the time spacies are gonna get killed at high percents(the trick is dun get hit of course). Dun forget if IC ****s up and nana gets hit by illusion by either furry guy it can be stock(unless you are chudat or trail and are uber 1337 with popo alone). Illusion > shine > shine > shine/firebird on nana is gg. or for fox illusion >uair/bair whatever.



Overall i do think IC have a decent match up on falco(moreso thanf ox) but not because of recovery/gimps/grab 1 hitter quitters but because of falcos lack of ground speed and IC's ability to stack damage on so fast(thus sending falco off the stage beyond his reasonable distance is easier).

 

[thumbswayup]

Where's Jam Stunna when you need him?

 

[noodles]

samus DOES do well vs falco

well i cant really back it up. cept from discussions with hugs and chibo if i can find it. sets dont really mean much but i think hugs beat pc in mlg orlando

 

[Mogwai]

Sheding light on IC vs falco/fox.


C-stick buffers roll/spot dodge out of basic IC chaingrab so whoever said its done when falco gets grabbed is wrong. wobbling is the only way its really done. Smash DI gets away from the blizzard regrab and the Fthrow> FthrowCG only works near the edge and is still janky unless ur name is Wobbles the Pheonix.


aerial game is on lock, falco has free aerial approaches and DEF on platforms.

he does have a lazer so if he desires to not attack at all he can(or at least appear to be......the option of lazering by it self is dangerous enough)

falco has a gimp on IC.

thats it for the givens. I wanna tackle recovery. YES falco's recovery sucks balls but I do not think that he suffers from gimps in the matchup so I feel like the bad recovery argument doesnt stick. If you DI decently the whole match the majority of the time you should be getting instant killed or sent beyond reasonable distance. Think about it.......IC doesnt grab combo you across the stage and edgeguard you like marth or shiek. IC is relatively stationary with their "combos" off the grab and do not create nearly as many gimp situations as marth or shiek. Plus IC deal LOTS of damage per hit so I feel that majority of the time spacies are gonna get killed at high percents(the trick is dun get hit of course).

few things.

1, the buffer out of the CG is dangerous since you have to DI down and away and cstick down or away on the throw. Yes, it's good to not auto die to a grab, but once they start to see you getting out of it, they just fsmash you and that ain't pretty when your DI is down and away.

2. aerial game is only on lock if you are not directly above or below ICs. This is sorta a nitpicky point, but if the ICs can stay directly below your dair, their uair eats it right up om nom nom nom nom.

3. lasers can situationally be fought through with ice blocks since there are ****ing two of them.

...but all that said I agree with the general sentiment behind your post.

Fox is way better vs. ICs than Falco is though, the additional length of the firefox is especially useful in this matchup since it's easy to get caught poorly DIing one strong hit and shine is silly vs. Nana.





samus is a peesa **** vs. Falco. pew pew pew, laser combo all dai son

 

[SwiftBass]

few things.

1, the buffer out of the CG is dangerous since you have to DI down and away and cstick down or away on the throw. Yes, it's good to not auto die to a grab, but once they start to see you getting out of it, they just fsmash you and that ain't pretty when your DI is down and away.

2. aerial game is only on lock if you are not directly above or below ICs. This is sorta a nitpicky point, but if the ICs can stay directly below your dair, their uair eats it right up om nom nom nom nom.

3. lasers can situationally be fought through with ice blocks since there are ****ing two of them.

...but all that said I agree with the general sentiment behind your post.

Fox is way better vs. ICs than Falco is though, the additional length of the firefox is especially useful in this matchup since it's easy to get caught poorly DIing one strong hit and shine is silly vs. Nana.

I find it easy to react to when I see the hammer fly up in the air. If I dun see the hammer I continue to buffer. plus IC LOVES to charge fsmash/dsmash with nana so it makes it easier to react.

yeah i missed that about utilt...landed Utilt is like > anything and more importantly a grab


f**kin iceblocks are cool when coupled with 1337 d-sync haxx

 

[Mogwai]

I find it easy to react to a charged smash, but if they don't charge dsmash, I can never react and frequently fail to react to fsmashes too (my reaction time blows, if only I had Dave's.... **** YOU DAVE, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY, YOUR REACTION TIME IS BEAST).

 

[KevinM]

Kevin did you play falco vs kyu's icies?

Yes I did.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

I think IC's are good against Falco because of their d smash and f smash. All it takes is a grab or a nicely paired fsmash or dsmash to get Falco off the stage. neu b is extremely useful if Falco is below the stage and d or f smash works wonders against any form of illusion attempt because both hit below the ledge much like any of marths choices near the ledge vs Falco. Not that it happens often but a paired set of ic's could potentially go into dropzone and fair spike Falco and then recover. lol

 

[pockyD]

IC vs falco is probably even on non-FD neutrals

IC have a slight edge on FD, and falco has a huge edge everywhere else, except maybe mute city, which really sucks for both so i don't really know who has it worse (falco is way better than IC on brinstar)

so i would really say the overall matchup is in falco's favor since he can just ban FD

 

[Mogwai]

lol, remember that game on corneria Pocky? GET AT FLIPPY, SON!

 

[pockyD]

what a *****

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

wtfing Flippy

 

[ZoSo]

Garrett, do you realize how nooby you sound?

"ICS ARE GOOD AGAINST FALCO CUZ OF POWERFUL SMASH ATTACKS"

Also, Mogwai definitely never said Samus does well against Falco. Better luck next time.

@Mogwai: I promise you my reaction time really isn't all that exceptional. I think I just react better than most people, not necessarily faster.

ICs vs. Falco is interesting. As Kevin pointed out, Falco's fsmash is safe on block pretty much all the time (I don't think you even have to space it that well) and his shine basically disables Nana for 3-4 seconds if it connects. On the other hand, they have basically limitless options for dealing with lasers via desynching. I think it's pretty even as long as they can stay in his face. It's just weird because Falco can't exactly play his usual game against them.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Dave-Yeah, now that I look at the post again I agree with you actually.

Let me rephrase:

When they grab you----free smash attack and then there ledge game against falco is not that bad. And yeah, Falco can't play the same he always does. I'd say the match is even or slighty in falcos favor.

 

[noodles]

alot of people think that samus does do well vs falco.
i dont know melee enough to really understand matchups that well

 

[P.c. Chris]

Falco does fine vs Samus. It's harder than a normal matchup, but i wouldn't consider it an even matchup or anything. Falco still has a slight advantage IMO. yes i lost to hugs but i lose to hugs with fox too. My style with spacies is just bad vs Samus but it doesn't mean Falco is bad vs Samus. Falco does fine against IC's too. IC's will kill anyone they grab now anyway , so it shouldn't really matter if they have other CG's vs him. Falco dies early all the time anyway LOL we get used to it. I'd consider peach, jiggs and marth way more of a threat then IC's and Samus. Just my 2 cents from my dinosaur Falco experience.

 

[ZoSo]

I think Samus gets *****. It's just the same thing as ICs where Falco can't exactly play his usual game against her.

Also, a lot of Falcos are ridiculously inept at dealing with her up-B for some reason.

 

[Mogwai]

modern Foxes are also more of a problem than ICs and Samoose. Fox is a ***

 

[ErciChewman]

I think postmodern foxes would be even more of a problem.

 

[trademark0013]

It's just weird because Falco can't exactly play his usual game against them.

what do u mean by this? he still shoots and cant get grabbed. do u mean offensive ability?

I think postmodern foxes would be even more of a problem.

foxes that can JC shine on command

 

[SwiftBass]

lol modern fox?

makes it sound liike smash is old

 

[ZoSo]

The effectiveness of lasers is reduced considerably because... well, there's two of them. One soaks up the lasers while the other dash attacks/fsmashes/whatever.

 

[Mogwai]

lol modern fox?

makes it sound liike smash is old

Foxes circa 2007 played poorly vs. Falcos. Now, you watch JMan play the matchup and it's a completely different thing.

and @ trade no one can play their conventional game vs. ICs. That's a large part of why Chu has been so successful despite some glaring weaknesses of his character.

 

[trademark0013]

and @ trade no one can play their conventional game vs. ICs. That's a large part of why Chu has been so successful despite some glaring weaknesses of his character.

fox?

only thing it seems characters cant do is grab. everything else seems a viable option

i think chus success should be credited to him way more than his character. he has played other characters in tourney.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

On the topic of falco vs. samus, I know it doesn't prove anything but it's fun to watch: Forward vs. Hugs @ Mango Juice. Hugo gets the **** ***** out of him

Agreed with Trade re: chu's success.

 

[_V_]

Fox plays the same game against every single character...run away and shoot lasers!!!!!

 

[Mogwai]

fox?

only thing it seems characters cant do is grab. everything else seems a viable option

i think chus success should be credited to him way more than his character. he has played other characters in tourney.

I'm not saying that it can't be attributed to Chu's abilities, I'm just saying that he's the only person to win a tournament of the magnitude of the Pound Series with a character that is not Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, or Jiggs for like, 2 years. I think ICs have serious deficiencies, but that they are viable largely due to that fact that you can't play against them the way you can play vs. anyone else. And GTFO if you think Fox can play standard Fox style vs. ICs.

IMO the character that has to play the least different vs. ICs is Ganon. All the top tiers have to play a noticeably different game than they do vs. anyone else.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

I don't really like spacies vs. samus. When I played hugs before pound 3, my falco, who I considered my best character, got 3 stocked on battlefield. Then I played marth on dreamland, and he one stocked me.

I'm pretty sure the solution against ICs with basically any character is **** nana, because if you separate them, it's easy to get several hits on nana. You don't have to kill nana right off the bat, because if you get her to decent margin of percent above popo, say 30% or more, then any hit that hits both of them separates them, and it becomes very easy to then hurt either one of them.

 

[thumbswayup]

I despise fighting Samus with Fox. It's an unwinnable matchup for me. Luckily, I have a lot of practice with Btree and it was playing him so much that made me realize only to use Falcon in that matchup and knee the **** out of that *****.

On a side note, playing Melee yesterday augmented my already amazingly high love of the Fox Falco matchup. I love it even more now if it's possible. I also realized it takes nearly 3 hours for my Fox to start playing good. Seriously, I was moving so slow at the start of the session and then hours later I started doing **** I didn't even know I could do.

One match on Battlefield I drilled a Falco and shined only to see that the shine was a phantom. Miraculously, I jump canceled the shine as if I had the foresight to know the first one would phantom and shined again! Then on instinct I continued to combo. It was like I did it on instant reaction. I can't even jump cancel shine on command lmao **** came out of ****ing nowhere.

 

[pockyD]

peach samus and jiggs can all just use the most basic elements of their existing playstyle vs. ICs and still have success... probably falcon too

peach could probably wear a blindfold and win

ICs just lose to simple play

 

[Mogwai]

Peach vs. ICs is so gay. mad props to ICs who manage to beat competent peaches

 

[SwiftBass]

all ganon has to do is just punch'em

 

[Mogwai]

that's how he beats sheik too, remember? just punch the hell out of her!

 

[trademark0013]

fox can still be fox vs ICs. shoot, hit em, shine. sounds like fox to me

lol. that how ganon beats everyone

 

[pockyD]

that's how he beats sheik too, remember? just punch the hell out of her!

don't forget about link's "chain grab"

 

[Mogwai]

yea, it's pretty broken that he can grab you with a chain. i never understand why people don't counter pick link vs. sheiks, after all, she can't grab you with her chain.