Connecticut Power Rankings discussion UPDATED,BRAWL RANKINGS UP

[trademark0013]

seems to me like marth mains QQ over matchups in which they have to actually think for and assume its worse than it is. i mean yea it sucks, but there are other characters in the game with worse sheik matchups and matchups in general. be grateful

 

[SleepyK]

like pichu

 

[ErciChewman]

we are grateful trade, that doesn't defeat the fact that sheik is gay against him and that we hate it. It's like everytime sheik easily grabs us, grabs us again, tilts us, tilts us again, anythings us, anythings us again and we die, we go "okay sheik, I see how it is, we're playing prison rules huh?" Then we come back and are all like come here *****! *grab-up throw-uptilt-pause-**** i messed up!* Then she grabs us again and does it all over, and we're all like WTF why can't you just stay still and let me combo you?! Then we go home and try to learn Fox and cry ourselves to sleep.

 

[SPAWN]

****ing Fox is so gay.

Marth vs Sheik matchup is so bad for Marth lol.

 

[Aesir]

seems to me like marth mains QQ over matchups in which they have to actually think for and assume its worse than it is. i mean yea it sucks, but there are other characters in the game with worse sheik matchups and matchups in general. be grateful

This better not be in reference to marth vs sheik because I can assure you this is a debate you wont win trade.

 

[KevinM]

@ Zoso.

I thought that was fairly obvious. You get the point, you don't have to debate the semantics.

 

[Aesir]

Sheik VS Marth is ****. Am I the only person who still thinks that is the dumbest match up in the whole game among high tiers?

65/35.

If sheik camps marth is dead, if sheik is aggressive sheik is dead.

there are dumber match ups believe me.

I'll put it this way:

Arcnatural four stocked my marth (my main) on battlefield with his marth

I kept him as Marth and went Sheik on FD and only lost by one stock and never use Sheik in tournament nor do I secondary her.

Maybe he's bad at the match up?

Marth vs foxdead even

55/45 marth favor.

Sheik vs Falcon Sheik combos him and ***** him off the stage but Falcon can combo her. its not that ****.

Marcs told me he doens't think vs falcons.

Fox vs Sheik-This is not as **** as most foxs say...I would much rather go sheik vs Fox than use Falco.....definitely.

Play better foxes.

Let me put it this way, marc tends to one stock my fox with sheik.

MY FOX

cool story?

Sheik vs marth is any tilt to death and hes sooooo floaty that any edge guard ***** him.

it's more like grab into anything leads into edge guard. Honestly you just have to play conservative more so then usual. If she camps though you're pretty dead.

Like honestly it's a pretty bad match up but things could be alot worse. Like Fox vs Sheik is heavily in Foxes favor.

Peach vs marth-pretty **** but if the marth doesnt space nicely peach can do ****.
peach vs falcon-same as above.

Yeah cause peach sucks.

 

[ZoSo]

@Kevin: I wasn't. I'm saying that if Marth mains complain about Sheik, it's because it's legitimately a gay matchup.

This isn't directed specifically at you. I've just seen a few generalizations about Marth mains and how they don't like to think, but Marth really can't afford to play dumb in any of his upper tier matchups.

This is like when people say Sheik is easy to play.

@Demetri: Fox vs. Sheik is mostly definitely not heavily in Fox's favor.

And yeah, to reiterate, Marth totally annihilates Peach (but he still has to play smart).

 

[trademark0013]

we are grateful trade, that doesn't defeat the fact that sheik is gay against him and that we hate it. It's like everytime sheik easily grabs us, grabs us again, tilts us, tilts us again, anythings us, anythings us again and we die, we go "okay sheik, I see how it is, we're playing prison rules huh?" Then we come back and are all like come here *****! *grab-up throw-uptilt-pause-**** i messed up!* Then she grabs us again and does it all over, and we're all like WTF why can't you just stay still and let me combo you?! Then we go home and try to learn Fox and cry ourselves to sleep.

ok. so sheik grabs u and does dmg. woohoo. isnt that what u do to..... o idk... every character in the game? just because ones doing it back to you doesnt make it a ZOMG THIS MATCH IS SO DUMB situation.

o and after that uptilt, u dont pause, u fair or uptilt again

This better not be in reference to marth vs sheik because I can assure you this is a debate you wont win trade.

what part of the debate are u reffering to?

 

[ZoSo]

I understand what you're saying, Bernard, but Marth's grab game is utter **** compared to Sheik's.

 

[trademark0013]

And yeah, to reiterate, Marth totally annihilates Peach (but he still has to play smart).

yea, peach v marth isnt fun

 

[trademark0013]

I understand what you're saying, Bernard, but Marth's grab game is utter **** compared to Sheik's.

tru, but who's isnt?

 

[ZoSo]

Hence why Sheik is gay.

 

[trademark0013]

she is. but of all the characters in the game, marth has more of a chance to fight her gayness

 

[Prince Of Fire]

seems to me like marth mains QQ over matchups in which they have to actually think for and assume its worse than it is. i mean yea it sucks, but there are other characters in the game with worse sheik matchups and matchups in general. be grateful

I'm pretty sure that Marth mains "think." Marth is the most important character to space with in the entire game....period. At low percents if you dont get the grab or get early tippers marth pretty much finds himself behind. This is even held true in some of his more **** match ups such as Falco or Falcon. Cactuar spoke about this in his Q and A thread...I've gone through that thread a good 40 times and he covers the importance of spacing early on in a match the most..... but blah, too lazy to find this late.

we are grateful trade, that doesn't defeat the fact that sheik is gay against him and that we hate it. It's like everytime sheik easily grabs us, grabs us again, tilts us, tilts us again, anythings us, anythings us again and we die, we go "okay sheik, I see how it is, we're playing prison rules huh?" Then we come back and are all like come here *****! *grab-up throw-uptilt-pause-**** i messed up!* Then she grabs us again and does it all over, and we're all like WTF why can't you just stay still and let me combo you?! Then we go home and try to learn Fox and cry ourselves to sleep.

Although you said it in probably the most ********/awkward way you did cover some points here. lol.

Translation of what you said: Sheik gets a free stock after a down throw where as Marth has to work for it.

Marth vs Sheik matchup is so bad for Marth lol.

yup.

This better not be in reference to marth vs sheik because I can assure you this is a debate you wont win trade.

I'm saying that if Marth mains complain about Sheik, it's because it's legitimately a gay matchup.

I've just seen a few generalizations about Marth mains and how they don't like to think, but Marth really can't afford to play dumb in any of his upper tier matchups.



@Demetri: Fox vs. Sheik is mostly definitely not heavily in Fox's favor.

And yeah, to reiterate, Marth totally annihilates Peach (but he still has to play smart).

We agree on stuff Dave. Yay!


I find it interesting how no one has brought up the similiaraties between this match up and the Fox one.

Both are all about the grab but what separates the gayness of fox from the gayness of sheik is:

Fox's u air can be smash DI'd
Fox's edge game vs marth is slighty worse than that of sheiks (debatable, but thats my opinion) I find I get gayed much more against a sheik than a Fox.
Marth edge guards Fox much easier.
Marth cant do really gay grab **** above 40% and is forced to rely on f and dthrow.
Sheik is better than him on all levels except Yoshis and EVEN THAT is negotiable.

she is. but of all the characters in the game, marth has more of a chance to fight her gayness

No, you're wrong.

Peach VS Sheik is even
Sheik VS Falco is even (I spoke to PC about this...it depends on the Falco)
Fox Vs Sheik-Fox has advantage but I agree w/ Dave, not ****.
Sheik vs jiggs-even? I'm not sure. All i know is that she has no grab game on jiggs
Ice climbers vs sheik-lol chain grab

Sheik is the third best character for a reason but she does destroy marth...if it were not for this match up I would argue Falco for potentially being better than Sheik

 

[trademark0013]

looking back at my post, i should have replaced "think" with "try harder"

but my view still stands

 

[Prince Of Fire]

looking back at my post, i should have replaced "think" with "try harder"

but my view still stands

LOL, alright. I'll buy that.

Off to sleep.






PS-Talking about this game really makes me want to play it....

 

[SPAWN]

Why do you guys not think Fox ***** Sheik? I don't understand this.

 

[trademark0013]

Why do you guys not think Fox ***** Sheik? I don't understand this.

because they both **** each other, nullifying the ****

 

[ErciChewman]

I know trade, but i'm not talking about every other character, i'm talking about sheik, that's the whole point. And i'm also slightly exaggerating if you haven't noticed. And fox has the most chance of fighting her gayness, period. Sheik can camp marth and there's NOTHING he do about it if she does.

 

[trademark0013]

theres definitely things marth can do about it

POF there's so much wrong with what u added to ur post im not even gonna comment

 

[ErciChewman]

theres definitely things marth can do about it

When Marth gains the ability to throw his sword, let me know. Until then, he's virtually dead to rights if she decides to camp hard.

And as far as fox/sheik goes. At RoM, I watched drunk Hazz(fox) beat Drephen. Guess how he did it? He won game one by being conservative, and LITERALLY, I MEAN LITERALLY!, used 4 moves to take out each stock: drill>shine>run away laser>eventually up smash. He lost game 2 because he started being more aggresive and careless. Game 3 he wasn't playing conservative either until he was down to his last stock, and Drephen had 3 stocks left. I said, "come on Hazz, play conservative like game 1". He did, and won the match. Just by drill shining, running away, lasering, then random kill move.

Moral of the story, if drunk Hazz can defeat the gayest of all gay sheiks with just 4 moves, i'd say thats enough to show fox has the best tactics against her gayness. I mean Drephen, all that ***** do is grab!

 

[SleepyK]

sheik v falco isn't even.
I know it's PC, but why is falco so far down the tier list?
his recovery is mediocre

what does sheik do well?
**** bad recoveries.
sheik ***** jiggs
sheik ***** peach LOL

 

[Cort]

Marth can pretty much camp Sheiks back by using his space very very carefully. Sheiks don't really want to needle you when you're a sword length away.

Why does M2K always make 99% of sheiks in 99% of his matches look like ******** puppets :/

 

[trademark0013]

When Marth gains the ability to throw his sword, let me know. Until then, he's virtually dead to rights if she decides to camp hard.

And as far as fox/sheik goes. At RoM, I watched drunk Hazz(fox) beat Drephen. Guess how he did it? He won game one by being conservative, and LITERALLY, I MEAN LITERALLY!, used 4 moves to take out each stock: drill>shine>run away laser>eventually up smash. He lost game 2 because he started being more aggresive and careless. Game 3 he wasn't playing conservative either until he was down to his last stock, and Drephen had 3 stocks left. I said, "come on Hazz, play conservative like game 1". He did, and won the match. Just by drill shining, running away, lasering, then random kill move.

Moral of the story, if drunk Hazz can defeat the gayest of all gay sheiks with just 4 moves, i'd say thats enough to show fox has the best tactics against her gayness. I mean Drephen, all that ***** do is grab!

moral of the story: dont use one set to determine a matchup

 

[SleepyK]

mike g's anti sheik strat

stay on the ground

 

[SPAWN]

Fox ***** Sheik so much harder though.

 

[thumbswayup]

I used to think Sheik ***** Marth hardcore, until I saw M2k vs Sheik. And then more recently I caught the live stream of the last Sova tourny with Turbo Ether's Marth vs Tope's Sheik and they were going dead even. It was lagging a bit, but his Marth was doing the craziest **** to the Sheik. Like wavelands to tipper to finish combos. They were both zero to deathing each other one of the match's on Yoshi's iirc. I think those matches are on youtube, if they are they're under the account "curiousenver"

Point is Marth can combo Sheik just fine if he's fast and smart about it. Sheik definitely has the advantage, but not by some insane amount.

 

[KevinM]

@Kevin: I wasn't. I'm saying that if Marth mains complain about Sheik, it's because it's legitimately a gay matchup.

This isn't directed specifically at you. I've just seen a few generalizations about Marth mains and how they don't like to think, but Marth really can't afford to play dumb in any of his upper tier matchups.

This is like when people say Sheik is easy to play.

Oh oks :D.

<333

 

[ErciChewman]

moral of the story: dont use one set to determine a matchup

knew you'd say that. Doesn't change the fact that anyone can use 4 moves to defeat sheik with fox.

And Cort/Thumbs, that's cuz he's M2K! If anyone else here can play Marth like M2K, please raise your hands! The kids a dam robot. Like we said, Marth can follow up and **** sheik too, but only if he's perfect about it, and of course, M2K is perfect about it, but for the rest of us non-androids it requires a lot of work. If we could all **** sheik like him, we'd all be elite pro's.

P.S. M2K gets ***** by KDJ's sheik, when KDJ was still active

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Aren't you guys done with that PC sig? Meat riding.

 

[SleepyK]

aren't you done with that master of flames **** sucking name?
meatriding

 

[ZoSo]

knew you'd say that. Doesn't change the fact that anyone can use 4 moves to defeat sheik with fox.

That's not a fact. You're only acting like it is based on a single piece of anecdotal evidence.

Drephen was EXTREMELY off that day and everybody knows it.

But hey, if you're so sure, I will gladly MM your Fox vs. my Sheik for any amount.

And Cort/Thumbs, that's cuz he's M2K! If anyone else here can play Marth like M2K, please raise your hands! The kids a dam robot. Like we said, Marth can follow up and **** sheik too, but only if he's perfect about it, and of course, M2K is perfect about it, but for the rest of us non-androids it requires a lot of work. If we could all **** sheik like him, we'd all be elite pro's.

P.S. M2K gets ***** by KDJ's sheik, when KDJ was still active

OK, so maybe bad people can't fight Sheik as well as M2K. That doesn't mean it isn't possible.

I've seen M2K lose to KDJ in Fox dittos, Sheik vs. Fox, Fox vs. Sheik, Sheik dittos, Marth dittos... the list goes on. This is the same as the Drephen/Hazzard thing where you're using the results of a handful of matches and acting like the ONLY REASON M2K lost was the matchup.

HEY GUYS! M2K 4-STOCKED PC CHRIS'S FOX WITH SHEIK! SHEIK OBVIOUSLY COUNTERS FOX!!11

What are you even arguing about anymore? Every single person who's posted has acknowledged that the matchup is in Sheik's favor.

Marth can pretty much camp Sheiks back by using his space very very carefully. Sheiks don't really want to needle you when you're a sword length away.

Yes.

 

[ErciChewman]

That's not a fact. You're only acting like it is based on a single piece of anecdotal evidence.

the fact that it happened implies that it's possible for it to happen all the time. i'm not saying it will, but because it's possible, it should.

Drephen was EXTREMELY off that day and everybody knows it.

johns. who cares if he was, he was up 3 stocks and still lost.

But hey, if you're so sure, I will gladly MM your Fox vs. my Sheik for any amount.

i don't have a fox, if i did, i would gladly.

OK, so maybe bad people can't fight Sheik as well as M2K. That doesn't mean it isn't possible.

no duh, isn't that exactly what i said!

I've seen M2K lose to KDJ in Fox dittos, Sheik vs. Fox, Fox vs. Sheik, Sheik dittos, Marth dittos... the list goes on. This is the same as the Drephen/Hazzard thing where you're using the results of a handful of matches and acting like the ONLY REASON M2K lost was the matchup.

I'm talking about sheik vs. Marth remember? And Dan hadn't played in like a year, came out of no where and picked sheik and ***** M2K at grassroots. It was just one example. I don't have time to post a million examples of everything ever to aid my point. Hence why it's AN EXAMPLE! Take it or leave it.

What are you even arguing about anymore? Every single person who's posted has acknowledged that the matchup is in Sheik's favor.

Yes they have, and they keep posting like it's an argument. And I was responding to trademarks comment, which is why i'm still babbling. How about you? I wasn't talking to you, yet you decided to argue with me. Point your question at yourself.

 

[ZoSo]

the fact that it happened implies that it's possible for it to happen all the time. i'm not saying it will, but because it's possible, it should.

Yet you conveniently ignored the example of M2K 4-stocking PC.

johns. who cares if he was, he was up 3 stocks and still lost.

OK?

i don't have a fox, if i did, i would gladly.

Uhh...

Doesn't change the fact that anyone can use 4 moves to defeat sheik with fox.

So, how about it?

no duh, isn't that exactly what i said!

You're right. My bad.

I'm talking about sheik vs. Marth remember? And Dan hadn't played in like a year, came out of no where and picked sheik and ***** M2K at grassroots. It was just one example. I don't have time to post a million examples of everything ever to aid my point. Hence why it's AN EXAMPLE! Take it or leave it.

I was making a point by bringing up other matchups. DJ has beaten M2K many, many times in a multitude of matchups (including Sheik vs. Fox). Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE there's more going on there than just Sheik having an advantage over Marth? Also, you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to how often DJ plays.

Yes they have, and they keep posting like it's an argument. And I was responding to trademarks comment, which is why i'm still babbling. How about you? I wasn't talking to you, yet you decided to argue with me. Point your question at yourself.

LOL @ "I wasn't talking to you." You posted something I felt was misleading, so I disagreed with you. Am I not allowed to do that on a public forum? Are you going to throw another hissy fit because I had the audacity to share a contrasting opinion?

People agreed that Sheik vs. Marth is in Sheik's favor. Are you like... trying to argue that it's an unwinnable matchup or something?

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

And Dan hadn't played in like a year, came out of no where and picked sheik and ***** M2K at grassroots.

what the **** are you talking about

Also, you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to how often DJ plays.

This.

 

[ErciChewman]

Okay. When people supply examples, its intention is to SUPPORT their ideas, obviously one example isnt enough to completely solidify something, so its meant to be taken lightly, but not to be completly written off like trademark did.

When i said anyone, i obviously meant any competent fox player, or are you just playing stupid?

That was supposed to be a serious example? It didnt provide any reasoning? Did pc play conservative in that match? Explain what actually went on rather than sounding like a tool.

And yes, its rather audacious of you to question why im still responding, when i had every right to respond to trademarks last comment. And then you completely contradict the nature of your inquiry by starting with me.

So forgive me for providing examples to support my theories since they cant singlehandedly prove my point. I still think they hold value.

@cog-dj beasted m2k at mlg long island after a bit of a break from major tourny play. Problem?

 

[pockyD]

haha this is a glorious trainwreck

 

[SPAWN]

I think I might actually go to Genesis. I just checked on plane tickets and they're like $250 for round trip. Pretty freaking good. I would just need housing for... a while lol. I wouldn't want to just go to the tournament. I would want to sight see, etc.

Pocky, wanna hook me up somehow? That'd be awesome if you could. :D

 

[ZoSo]

If that's what you meant, that's what you should've said, because they don't mean the same thing at all. Don't act like the problem is with my comprehension.

the fact that it happened implies that it's possible for it to happen all the time. i'm not saying it will, but because it's possible, it should.

M2K 4-stocked PC Chris. Does that mean it should always happen? Of course not.

I wasn't asking why you're still responding. I legitimately wanted to know what point you're trying to make. People have agreed with you that Sheik has an advantage against Marth... you still argue with them. Do you think Sheik completely dominates Marth or what?

Here's the problem with using "examples." There are just as many examples of good Sheiks beating good Foxes. Anecdotal evidence is virtually worthless when discussing matchups.