COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[Xivii]

Wait so it was just a single mason without a partner? lol. What's darkpit's username? When did he come in? Is there an iso function?

Also, I don't think Frozen is scum. I'm confident there is scum between Darkpit and UP. I said before that I'd prefer Darkpit, but I'm actually willing to try UP first as well. That seems more viable currently since Frozen and Somi support it.

 

[Darkpit54]

My username is Starling. The false mason had a town mason partner, and there was discussion of false IC's in the Discord after the game. Came in near the very end of day 2(? May have been three) and struggled a lot lmao. I think there is an ISO feature but I never figured out how to work it lol

 

[Darkpit54]

I think atm, a UP yeet gives us the most info due to the huge amount of content, and the couple of questionable reads therein.

There are so many differing opinions going around (look at the VC lmao) and I'm really struggling to read anyone. I think we need an informative yeet, which would be Xivii or UP unless something shifts majorly in the next couple of days lol.

I think atm I would lean toward UP. However, UP asked us not to yeet him first before the game started so we can't :/

Real talk, I'm going to try to read their ISOs in a little bit and see what I think

 

[Chaco]

Xivii I just meant UPs game and this one. I’m driving so I’m gonna be concise. No you haven’t done anything anti town, I was just using early game of UPs as an example for tunneling you. (Difference of game opinion.) I didn’t think it was cultural because I saw the angle you were going for.

 

[Chaco]

I’ll respond to the mass after I get out of the chiropractor

 

[Xivii]

Spoiler: @ Boom, not game relevant

It means using "out of game"analysis to try and evaluate people's alignment (or gain other advantage in the game). The game is evaluate people based on what they say and in game actions they take. Judging people on "outside" things like timestamps, or "did you get a fast night prompt" or "how many paragraphs long was your role PM" are angley.

I swear I be dimension-hopping sometimes because often people will suddenly start frequently using terms that I haven't heard before. I can't seem to find the origin of the term (I know it's from poker, but I'm specifically looking for why it's called that). I'm guessing that it comes from a ground angle shot in filming, so it's referring to it being underhanded maybe. Anyway, I'd say those are all different things.

How many paragraphs long is your role PM is using mod metadata - Against the rules.
How did you respond to the fast night prompt (under the presumption that only PRs/scum received it) - Fishing, Ungentlemanly
Asking to claim immediately - entirely in-game
How did you respond to the fast night prompt (under the presumption that all received it) - Fishing, Fair

I'd say the middle two could be classified as angle shooting depending on who you ask and the parameters set by the host and community. I'd personally argue that the second is but the third is not, but then again that's probably just due the fact that I'm accustomed to it. (I believe in the past 6 months, I've had 3 occurrences where town hall requested that I claim immediately upon replacing in).

None of this is pertinent to the game, but I like discussing it.

However, UP asked us not to yeet him first before the game started so we can't :/

Yes we can.

 

[mərcurı]

>grasping the setup
> thinking claimorder will matter

pick one

did kary just give you ****ty safeclaims or some ****? this flailing is wild

no no hes got a point

so inactives can literally actively taunt us while they deliberately choose not to play the game and they don't get policy lynched for it? man smashboards

/shrug

Hey, hi, how's it going? So you want to actually maybe play the actual game? Like talk about something relevant? Like scum hunting?

You are literally making an irrelevant comment nit picking someone making a list that you think is already irrelevant. Doesn't that seem like the lowest value contribution you could possibly make?

really? did you even read the question?

though no i have not been inclined to play the game til now

The issue I have with this is that there were three overlapping ideas of "it" going around:

1. The setup consists of everyone having watered-down power roles. [Chaco, Pit]
2. The setup consists of everyone having dressed up vanilla roles. [Me, Frozen]
3. The setup consists of watered-down roles and real power roles. [UP]

We weren't all on the same page at all, and still aren't, as UP is still insisting that there are real versions of the PRs floating around. However, we could group all of these under the understanding that the setup is deceptively low powered. So is the benchmark the fact that some players understood that the game was DLP or is it that some players understood that everyone has dressed up VT roles?

If the former, then yes somi does stand out as the only player to have not grasped it. If that is the case, however, it doesn't make sense for you to take Frozen's post as evidence of Darkpit not having got it since he did indeed grasp that the setup was DLP. If the latter, then it doesn't make sense that you singled out DP for this considering Chaco and UP weren't on the same page as me and Frozen either. Additionally, the fact that UP is still arguing for version 3 of the setup ought to spark concern and that you aren't actually vibing at all.

3 would be funny tbh but i think its just 2

and im willing to massclaim but again i really want you to explain why an order is necessary

 

[Chaco]

osieorb18 What do you make of Somi popping in and snatching the last post about their experience, and not responding to the point which initiated that? Do you think it’s townie scum indicative?

I can legitimately see DP being town here again, and tbh a bit of what you’re saying plays into my initial thoughts on DPvXivii (ie That DP is bowing to Xivii, therefore just getting bulldozed essentially) I think Xivii is a good enough player that scumXivii would make that wall and punish those points that aren’t overtly scummy. However, the point where he tried to come and get you to claim instantly is overtly a town move. HOWEVER, the most recent posts from DP seem a bit forced and completely unlike his obvious town play of UPs game. The informative Lynch post just feels dirty to me, not exactly sure why.

Mercuri still hasn’t hit on much overall game state, therefore, is still riding the Null slot.

I am not at all familiar with UPs play, so he’s a new one for me to try and read. I think if he is scum, he will have some pretty easy tells to pickup on as the game matures.

Still vibing with Boom. Osie as well now.

 

[Chaco]

I don’t necessarily see scumFrozen yet here, still need to see quite a bit more from him. I didn’t get enough of a chance last game to pick up on his play again.

 

[Darkpit54]

The informative Lynch post just feels dirty to me, not exactly sure why.

Do you disagree with it? I'll gladly explain my thought process or answer any questions you have about it. I made similar posts last game regarding Raj's yeet and I think one more? Not that it should really matter, I firmly believe an informative yeet is nearly always better than a yeet of someone with little content to analyze, especially early on, unless you're almost certain you're yeeting scum

 

[Chaco]

Do you disagree with it? I'll gladly explain my thought process or answer any questions you have about it. I made similar posts last game regarding Raj's yeet and I think one more? Not that it should really matter, I firmly believe an informative yeet is nearly always better than a yeet of someone with little content to analyze, especially early on, unless you're almost certain you're yeeting scum

No I don’t. It’s your feel this game, it feels different than last. I’m gonna compare the posts from there to here in a little bit and see why.

Do you personally think you’re playing different this game? If so, why?

 

[BoomFrog]

Spoiler: AngleShooting

I assumed it came from pool hustling somehow. Like shooting all the angles. Also, I thought you did #2 last game, but I now see it was #4 actually. Anyway, I struggled to come up with good examples, but I think you get the idea. I guess I view replacing in as a necessary but unfortunate out of game intervention. And I don't like doing something to a replacement that would not work on a player playing from the beginning. So I think it's good sportsmanship to give them breathing room at first even if it helps a scum slot.

Anywho:

The issue I have with this is that there were three overlapping ideas of "it" going around:

1. The setup consists of everyone having watered-down power roles. [Chaco, Pit]
2. The setup consists of everyone having dressed up vanilla roles. [Me, Frozen]
3. The setup consists of watered-down roles and real power roles. [UP]

We weren't all on the same page at all, and still aren't, as UP is still insisting that there are real versions of the PRs floating around. However, we could group all of these under the understanding that the setup is deceptively low powered. So is the benchmark the fact that some players understood that the game was DLP or is it that some players understood that everyone has dressed up VT roles?

I am still not sure what UP's true thoughts are in the 1 2 or 3 categories, because he has obfuscated them with a healthy does of UP brand lol-chaos. But the key thing is that I could see he was trying to discern other's knowledge of "it" in order to scumhunt. Chaco and Pit's perspective make sense from the info they had access to so it indicates to me that they don't have extra starting info.

If the former, then yes somi does stand out as the only player to have not grasped it. If that is the case, however, it doesn't make sense for you to take Frozen's post as evidence of Darkpit not having got it since he did indeed grasp that the setup was DLP. If the latter, then it doesn't make sense that you singled out DP for this considering Chaco and UP weren't on the same page as me and Frozen either. Additionally, the fact that UP is still arguing for version 3 of the setup ought to spark concern and that you aren't actually vibing at all.

DP was actually in category 3, which I hadn't realized, which frozen pointed out that you had had to explain to DP why the below didn't hold water.

The existence of a Miller suggests some form of investigative role though, right? So that's good for us, even if it's a weaker one

So DP actually didn't get it, which feels like a scum perspective. If scum got "real" useless roles then they would be hesitant to assume that all of town got useless roles, but if a townie gets a useless role they will guess that others got useless roles as well. So this perspective feels like it's actually scummy. I'm leaning towards a DP yeet, but I really want to reevaluate tomorrow.

 

[Darkpit54]

Do you personally think you’re playing different this game? If so, why?

I have a little less time and energy to dedicate to this game than last game, but aside from that not particularly, aside from being much less confident in the state of the game than I was by the end of the last lol. Typing the rest of this response I've realized I'm a lot less filtered this game, not rereading before posting, so I added that here lol. Probably not helping everyone's reads of me, but college apps are open and school is starting, so I don't really have the time to spend editing my posts. Sorry about that

I don't really know how to convince you that I'm not scum, and it's not really my MO to do so. I'm going to try to figure out who scum is so I can have a legacy if I do get yeeted, or a starting point if I don't.

I'm very confused rn lol. Reading town on Boom and Chaco, Leaning town on Frozen and Osie, pretty Null on Somi and Mer

Confused by Xivii and UP? They seem like great town leaders if they are town, but disastrous if not, so I'm hesitant to put a lot of trust there.

I'm going to try to reread in a little bit when I have more time so these might shift a little or at least get explained lol. I really wanna lock down some kinda read on Xivii and UP lol

So DP actually didn't get it, which feels like a scum perspective. If scum got "real" useless roles then they would be hesitant to assume that all of town got useless roles, but if a townie gets a useless role they will guess that others got useless roles as well

I 100% didn't get it, I think I made that pretty clear. I still kinda don't? My role clearly does something; no one can debate that. I don't really see the argument here? My role isn't incredibly helpful, but it does do something, so I wouldn't ever call it useless. Why would my assumption be that everyone should have useless roles when everyone knows that my role does something. Shouldn't my assumption be that everyone has a role that could be situationally helpful, but still fairly weak?

I think some of the pushes on me have been good and made a lot of sense, such as most of Xivii's, but some of them seem really opportunistic and make very little sense when you try to look from my perspective with the information you have about my role.

This post is a mess and probably awful, but I wanted to get my thoughts out there. Tonight I'll try to reread and maybe make a hopefully polished post on my reads and why

 

[Chaco]

I think Xivii's flip would 100% yield the most information, but I don't think it's the play for today as Fonti can easily be cleared within to nights, taking him by extension

So what's the play for today? I still feel that a Boom flip would give us more information, but I think both are probably scum.

I think atm, a UP yeet gives us the most info due to the huge amount of content, and the couple of questionable reads therein.

The top two just doesn’t feel like the bottom here. The top seem more carefree and inquisitive, the bottom seems reinforced and with an agenda. Am I over reading this or does anyone else notice the feel difference in DP?

I haven’t read the post above of his yet. I’m about to, but this is where I left my phone clicked off at earlier.

 

[Chaco]

You just said above also that you were going to reread to try and get a read on UP, but he was your candidate for a yeet. Why UP over Xivii? Both have similar content level so I don’t see a definitive point that separates the two here where UP is the more informative target.

I feel you on the college stuff. I actually got 100% the opposite vibe from your posts though, that they were more cleaned up, concise, and lacked the purity that your previous game did. Which if you have stuff going on irl, easily understandable that stress can take that sense away. Focus on what’s important. It wasn’t a thing of “hey do more”, it was just I noticed slight differences in your language and the tone and was curious as to the reason.

 

[Darkpit54]

You just said above also that you were going to reread to try and get a read on UP, but he was your candidate for a yeet. Why UP over Xivii? Both have similar content level so I don’t see a definitive point that separates the two here where UP is the more informative target

Really just vibes rn. And that's exactly why I wanna reread him, because I want to be certain before I push anything.

I put UP as more informative because of what I remember of his reads. I believe he has posted more and been less explanatory of why? But I think both are informative yeets. About to see if I think they're optimal yeets, but no one is really screaming scummy to me rn lol

About to start my reread so here's hoping I actually find stuff lol

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount 1-8

[1] mərcurı : Boomfrog
[1] somitomi : Chaco
[1] Darkpit54: Xivii
[1] #HBC FrozeηFlame : UtopianPoyzin
[1] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame
[1] Xivii : osieorb18

[3] Not Voting: mərcurı, Darkpit54, somitomi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is: 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th

 

[Darkpit54]

UP:

Oh My Gosh You Suck

##Vote: Mercuri

I 100% thought this vote was a joke, but UP continued to push this based on Mer's single post lol:

this town








this probably scum
i got a lot of pings through these posts

Okay cool Chaco is locktown. Darkpit54 is 99% locktown from their role alone? Like I said it would really suck if they were scum so I’m going to assume that things don’t suck.

Poyzin
Chaco
Darkpit54
Everyone Else
Mercuri

Reallyyy don't see Chaco as a scummate for UP, the townreading is just so strong so early. I think his push on Mer could possibly be SvS, because it felt so weak that it clearly wasn't meant to end in a Mer yeet, but served as an initial distancing. More on that in a minute lol.

Could you rephrase this post? Didn’t get the first bit
I’d like to wagon mercuri but I’ll help a brother out

##Unvote
##Vote: Somitomi

This imo is UP's grimiest post. This feels super scummy and opportunistic, joining a wagon while stating that he didn't understand the argument for it. Can anyone explain a town motivation for this?

Xivii, don’t add unnecessary WIFOM. Your DP quotes are completely natural and you’re reading too far into it. You’re probably town though.

Why is the one slot consistently defending me scummy???

I really want to like you for all of this. That's probably the point. I appreciate the faith in me <3

Thanks for ruining the bluff and giving Somitomi’s point substance, you’re just making it easier for scum to wiggle around

I still don't fully understand the bluff, but I feel like they're more likely to come from town, right? This confuses me

Like it just seems that Xivii is reading too far into WIFOM right now instead of realizing that I’m the towniest person in the game

I hate posts like these. But Xivii made pretty much the exact same posts as town. Idrk if this is town imitating Xiv last game or scum imitating Xiv last game, but either way this is confusing and hard to read. This is probably just wine but I felt like I couldn't not address the LAMIST at least somewhat. (What if UP's role is Midnight Ops Xivii and that's his PR???)

Alright, I’m going to do another logic chart.

Opinion: There is a mafia rolecop

To proceed with the argument, we will assume there is.

Case 1: The rolecop does not want to massclaim.
Case 2: The rolecop wants to massclaim.

The argument for case 1 is that the rolecop wants to potentially appear townie by opposing a massclaim, knowing that they can get that information for themselves ahead of the rest of the town through checking people’s roles nightly.

The argument for case 2 is that knowing roles is beneficial for scum, and a massclaim would make their job a lot easier, and can have more educated checks to confirm information nightly.

With this in mind, we cannot undo a massclaim, so I would also like to hear from everyone. I also think we should abstain from giving away modifiers; only the actual role.

UP, could you explain why you're so confident that there's a rolecop? You stated your belief that there was one pretty often, but I don't think I saw why.

A rolecop UP could probably easily get away with claiming any variant of the cops he kept jokingly softclaiming

I don’t actually townread BF now that I think about it, and FF isn’t unyeetable. I just wanted to contradict Xivii

Don't really understand the motivation behind this. Also wanted to say that I really don't think UPvXivii is SvS, so I really want to make sure I push the right one lol. Any input for this is appreciated

Eh, this is turning into Oasis Mafia 2 for me which is not good so I’m going to lay off for now. I’m not claiming second.

I still don't understand the reluctance to claim, in any order, especially if the plan is to massclaim. If you disagree with a massclaim, you should be fighting that, not the claim order, right?

That you read literally anything I said and genuinely believe that I’m scum

Poyzin
Chaco
Xivii
Darkpit54
3DSNinja
mercuri
Somitomi
BoomFrog
FrozenFlame

Xivii is probably the sour one out of my town reads it who knows until Day 3

Mercuri doesn’t have scum motivation. Xivii might

More that makes me think Mer could be a mate with scum UP. There were a couple posts that made me think 3ds could be too, but Osie seems fairly townie to me so far, so I'm leaning more toward this rn

Imagine saying that I’m the next option after Darkpit lol

Did some sleeping last night and I decided ai was giving Xivii too much credit. I wanted to vibe with them over and over but it seems like everything they say is devoid of logic and is generally unnecessarily conspiratory. Maybe I’ll figure out what that means

Poyzin
Chaco
Darkpit54
mercuri
3DSNinja
Somitomi
BoomFrog
Xivii
FrozenFlame

Mer really do be consistently moving up despite almost no new or helpful posts. That's all I'm saying.

I think if UP is scum, Mer is probably his mate, but maybe Osie or someone like Boom who he's interacted very little with. I'd lean more towards Mer though.

I don't see UP as scum with Chaco or Xivii at all, and probably Frozen as well due to the long-lasting push on him.

Not really sure that a Town UP clears anyone, so I'll thinking about that. A misyeet here might not provide as much info as I thought. A correct yeet though would be very helpful

About to look at Xivii now

 

[Darkpit54]

And I still voted incorrectly. Sigh.

I imagine it is, as Osie puts it, deceptively low power. In other words, it is probably that all or most of us have roles that seem to do something on the surface, but in reality are simply dressed up vanilla roles.

This was before any fullclaims, and was his first real post of the game. I believe this reads well for him. Pretty much showcases him "getting it" before that was a thing lol

I don't have any read on somitomi, Frozen, or Mercuri.

I'm ambivalent regarding Chaco. He seems to be saying the right things, but something feels off. I'm not exactly sure what to make of it yet.

I don't really remember why I quoted this oops. I think potential scummates with Xivii could Frozen or Mer, but I'm not really sold on either yet. The progression on Chaco could indicate a mate but it feels genuine, as does Chaco's slot as a whole, so I'm leaning more towards one of the former

I believe this is another attempt at faking a townie perspective

I think Xivii's entire first post over me contains good analysis and pushes. A few of the follow ups seem to suffer from a little confirmation bias and tunneling, but overall the arguments feel genuine

If this were the case, then he should be scumreading Chaco for falling for the bluff, yet his read there remains unchanged. It's evident that he is simply backtracking.

This is a good catch that I missed earlier lol.

Vote: BoomFrog

I'm sorry BoomFrog, I wanted to give you some breathing room this game but I do think you're scum here.

Don't really see Xivii and Boomfrog as potential scummates. Less confident in this than Xivii and UP, but pretty sure

Actually, there's something that contradicts the notion of Boom/UP, so I'd remove that from the potential teams

Could you explain what this is lol? I feel like that would be helpful for everyone

The issue I have with this is that there were three overlapping ideas of "it" going around:

1. The setup consists of everyone having watered-down power roles. [Chaco, Pit]
2. The setup consists of everyone having dressed up vanilla roles. [Me, Frozen]
3. The setup consists of watered-down roles and real power roles. [UP]

We weren't all on the same page at all, and still aren't

This post reads pretty well too imo, and explains his progression on Somi well.

Overall, I kinda like Xivii's slot a lot more than UP's? Despite nearly two pages less of posts, he seemed to have considerably more analysis and questions, whereas UP was more reactions and trying to lead. I think this reads well for Xivii

If Xivii is scum, I think he could be mates with Frozen or Mer. There's a potential for Chaco or Somi, but I think these seem much less likely

I don't see Xivii being scum with UP or Boom at all

##Vote: UP

Going to do this for now. Tomorrow I'll try to read Frozen and Boom and see what I think

Osie, can you explain the full case against Xivii once you finish reading, if you haven't already? I'm curious to see if I missed anything lol

 

[Xivii]

Chaco which points of mine do you think were lacking?

Suspicious
UtopianPoyzin
Xivii
DarkPit
Osieorb (neutral-ish)
FrozenFlame
BoomFrog
Chaco
Cool

What do you like of Chaco, Boom, and Frozen?
Do you think UP and I could be scummates?

Spoiler: AngleShooting

I assumed it came from pool hustling somehow. Like shooting all the angles. Also, I thought you did #2 last game, but I now see it was #4 actually. Anyway, I struggled to come up with good examples, but I think you get the idea. I guess I view replacing in as a necessary but unfortunate out of game intervention. And I don't like doing something to a replacement that would not work on a player playing from the beginning. So I think it's good sportsmanship to give them breathing room at first even if it helps a scum slot.

Anywho:
I am still not sure what UP's true thoughts are in the 1 2 or 3 categories, because he has obfuscated them with a healthy does of UP brand lol-chaos. But the key thing is that I could see he was trying to discern other's knowledge of "it" in order to scumhunt. Chaco and Pit's perspective make sense from the info they had access to so it indicates to me that they don't have extra starting info.

DP was actually in category 3, which I hadn't realized, which frozen pointed out that you had had to explain to DP why the below didn't hold water.

So DP actually didn't get it, which feels like a scum perspective. If scum got "real" useless roles then they would be hesitant to assume that all of town got useless roles, but if a townie gets a useless role they will guess that others got useless roles as well. So this perspective feels like it's actually scummy. I'm leaning towards a DP yeet, but I really want to reevaluate tomorrow.

((It actually was #2, but I agree that it was underhanded. It was in jest as I figured it would be apparent to scum and any response would be wifom, but I felt bad seeing in chat that it caused UP concern.))

I'd say DP's perspective is category 1 because while he was speculating that there could be cop role, he acknowledged that it would be watered down. Whereas UP is arguing that there are full godfather/cop/rolecop roles.

Even so, I'm confused how the perspective would make DP scummy since we know for a fact what his role is?

 

[osieorb18]

osieorb18 What do you make of Somi popping in and snatching the last post about their experience, and not responding to the point which initiated that? Do you think it’s townie scum indicative?

I don't love it, but I don't hate it.

I can legitimately see DP being town here again, and tbh a bit of what you’re saying plays into my initial thoughts on DPvXivii (ie That DP is bowing to Xivii, therefore just getting bulldozed essentially) I think Xivii is a good enough player that scumXivii would make that wall and punish those points that aren’t overtly scummy. However, the point where he tried to come and get you to claim instantly is overtly a town move. HOWEVER, the most recent posts from DP seem a bit forced and completely unlike his obvious town play of UPs game. The informative Lynch post just feels dirty to me, not exactly sure why.

Maybe it's just from playing with a lot of incredibly strong scum players, but I am really not convinced that push for a claim is overtly town.

A lot of the time when I see other people making posts about info elims, it looks like the arguments are ONLY info, which is godawful.

I am not at all familiar with UPs play, so he’s a new one for me to try and read. I think if he is scum, he will have some pretty easy tells to pickup on as the game matures.

I think I'm willing to give UP a lot of benefit of the doubt here for the time being. Maybe just because he usually feels a little less flaily as scum than he does here.

 

[osieorb18]

I don't really know how to convince you that I'm not scum, and it's not really my MO to do so.

Aww... that's cute.

Actually, mafia is a team game, so town players do want to convince other town of alignment.

 

[osieorb18]

This is probably just wine but I felt like I couldn't not address the LAMIST at least somewhat. (What if UP's role is Midnight Ops Xivii and that's his PR???)

I would hesitate to use the term LAMIST when it's so out in the open like that.

 

[osieorb18]

Despite nearly two pages less of posts, he seemed to have considerably more analysis and questions, whereas UP was more reactions and trying to lead. I think this reads well for Xivii

He asked a lot more easy meaningless questions ("Elaborate please?") than UP.

Osie, can you explain the full case against Xivii once you finish reading, if you haven't already? I'm curious to see if I missed anything lol

Before I re-ISO Xivii and determine if I still am certain on this (may or may not be the case):

Xivii isn't trying to sort/solve. He's trying to eliminate somebody, anyone. He's trying to rolefish as much as possible. He's trying to look townie by throwing out long posts with a lot of easy questions. But he isn't trying to sort/solve.

 

[Xivii]

OK so I looked through that game. Jesus Osie, you are one modkillin mofo. Also, scum mason is definitely bast. I'd be livid if I was in a game with that role. Anyway, your assessment of Darpit as ml bait is definitely not correct. In the game he last played here (Midnight Ops) he was the top town read of almost every player from beginning to end and never once was wagoned. Looking through that game makes it super salient the difference between his play here and his play there/Midnight. I'm fully confident Darkpit is scum.

For those interested, Darkpit (Starling) replaces in here. Chaco since you read from feel/tone, I'm confident you'll find this convincing.

 

[Chaco]

I’m trying to read it before I catch up here but damn is it a chore. Very hard for me to read that game for some reason. I’ve read like 20 pages I think rn

 

[Chaco]

I don't love it, but I don't hate it.



Maybe it's just from playing with a lot of incredibly strong scum players, but I am really not convinced that push for a claim is overtly town.

A lot of the time when I see other people making posts about info elims, it looks like the arguments are ONLY info, which is godawful.



I think I'm willing to give UP a lot of benefit of the doubt here for the time being. Maybe just because he usually feels a little less flaily as scum than he does here.

Situationally I think it comes from town here more often than not. I see your concern though.

UP is an interesting read that’s for sure, hard to classify him based off of style here without playing with him before.

I’m still comfortable on Somi rn.

Darkpits style is definitely different here though. Lacks the purity I’ve seen in both games referenced. Like I could could be due to his rl obligations, but I don’t think it translates that way. This would also be his first game as scum, so I would guess there would be a style switch up that he himself wouldn’t be super keen to. My only hold up here is that it’s a mod announced role with child in it, I don’t know Karys mod meta, and the game I saw before shows they could be capable of a scum role being a named role. But I just don’t know currently. It gives me reservations

 

[Chaco]

Here’s some meta thoughts of the setup. Would Kary allow two named townies to be out D1 in a 9p setup? I know my role is legit, so it greatly reduces PoE On D1. I don’t want to waste a day phase here though pursuing something that can be inconsequential.

If role was not in play I would be down for the yeet here. I just can’t be down with that at this point yet, I need to see some flips to be quite honest to pursue his slot.

 

[Chaco]

I don’t see townPit saying I can’t convince you of my alignment either. But then again, advancement in style? Idk.

 

[BoomFrog]

I'd say DP's perspective is category 1 because while he was speculating that there could be cop role, he acknowledged that it would be watered down. Whereas UP is arguing that there are full godfather/cop/rolecop roles.

Even so, I'm confused how the perspective would make DP scummy since we know for a fact what his role is?

Okay, yeah, you're right. Cat 1. Alright, I will channel the spirit of town-DP:

Oh, my role is just that everyone knows my role. Wow, that... doesn't actually do anything. Huh. It's like a weak innocent child. Well I was expecting a vanilla role, so I guess this is pretty much vanilla. I bet everyone got a not-technically vanilla role. Oh, Chaco's role also doesn't do anything. Lol, guess we all do nothing.

Now I will channel the spirit of scum-DP:

Oh, my role is just that everyone knows my role. That's like a fake innocent child. It's almost bastardly, but I guess it's not. Well I guess I can't fake claim anything. I'll just play it straight. Oh, Chaco is a weak miller, I wonder if there's a weak cop.

I guess what I'm saying is, Cat 1 is more likely from scum. Also, more that I've done this I've convinced myself that the "my role isn't *******" thought is much more likely from scum-DP. I've talked myself into it.


##Vote: Darkpit

 

[BoomFrog]

Also, I think Kary has proven that they are a competent mod and I trust them that this setup is actually basically vanila. Any role could be scum and scum likely got safe claims or legitimately town-like-but-ineffective roles. I wouldn't even be surprised if self doubting miller was a scum role. The reason I town read Chaco is because of how he handled the role.

 

[BoomFrog]

Darkpit54 Do you have any habitual things that you routinely clean up in your posts but haven't been doing so this game? For example I have frequent spelling errors and always need to carefully double check my spelling of "definitely", I often autocorrect to "defiantly".

 

[BoomFrog]

Also, while I'm at it building a case on DP. The fact that DP is seriously considering Xivii as scum but still stated that their push on DP was solid is a super guilty attitude. Town DP would think Xivii's push was flawed or would think Xivii is town. But scum Xivii with a legit argument makes no sense.

 

[Xivii]

I’m trying to read it before I catch up here but damn is it a chore. Very hard for me to read that game for some reason. I’ve read like 20 pages I think rn

Wait are you not just skimming for Starling's posts? Here's the iso.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

So I still think UP is obvscum and the best play but hard to argue with a lot of the points being made on DP

DP seems to be pretty keen on yeeting UP in recent pages, gonna have to ISO when I have more time to see what kind of progression is there, but I get heavy bus/distancing vibes especially given how the slot hangs its hat on "UP give us most info" which is kind of a sideline rationale

also, are we claiming or not? I still think we should, I'm so ****ing confident we've tripped atleast one scum up in the "doesn't get it" pool and UP's reluctance to have his claim order dictated feels like bleeding scum to me. as I've said before I really don't think order matters and am happy to go first

So DP actually didn't get it, which feels like a scum perspective. If scum got "real" useless roles then they would be hesitant to assume that all of town got useless roles, but if a townie gets a useless role they will guess that others got useless roles as well. So this perspective feels like it's actually scummy. I'm leaning towards a DP yeet, but I really want to reevaluate tomorrow.

this this this this this this this this

Aww... that's cute.

Actually, mafia is a team game, so town players do want to convince other town of alignment.

I don’t see townPit saying I can’t convince you of my alignment either. But then again, advancement in style? Idk.

DPs casual "its not my wincon to convince you I'm town" really pinged for me as well

Okay, yeah, you're right. Cat 1. Alright, I will channel the spirit of town-DP:

Oh, my role is just that everyone knows my role. Wow, that... doesn't actually do anything. Huh. It's like a weak innocent child. Well I was expecting a vanilla role, so I guess this is pretty much vanilla. I bet everyone got a not-technically vanilla role. Oh, Chaco's role also doesn't do anything. Lol, guess we all do nothing.

Now I will channel the spirit of scum-DP:

Oh, my role is just that everyone knows my role. That's like a fake innocent child. It's almost bastardly, but I guess it's not. Well I guess I can't fake claim anything. I'll just play it straight. Oh, Chaco is a weak miller, I wonder if there's a weak cop.

I guess what I'm saying is, Cat 1 is more likely from scum. Also, more that I've done this I've convinced myself that the "my role isn't *******" thought is much more likely from scum-DP. I've talked myself into it.


##Vote: Darkpit

this exactly illustrates why I think the slots that squirmed while we were discussing whether the game is functionally mountainous with red herring roles to mask it makes those slots scummy. I think scum here would have been very afraid of overclaiming or claiming something that broke from the pattern of all the town roles hence the hesitance to commit to strong conclusions about the setup generally. scum wants to keep their claim options open and doesn't want to get tripped up this early as a result of being forced into a risky fakeclaim or drawing conclusions about the setup that don't necessarily follow from a truly town PoV

 

[Chaco]

Wait are you not just skimming for Starling's posts? Here's the iso.

no I was reading the whole game...

 

[Chaco]

That’s town Frozen.

 

[Chaco]

And I agree the initial game questioning tripped up a few people, and the PoE is definitely gonna fall there. Somi, DP, and even UP to an extent.

Im becoming more comfortable with a DP yeet the more I read into it. Cause it’s 100% not typical play. That much is obvious. The posts that he’s referencing as townie are forced, ie informative Lynch here vs elsewhere.

IF WE MASS CLAIM SOMI GOES FIRST. Then UP.

 

[Chaco]

End on Frozen and Boom.

 

[Xivii]

For Claiming (5) - Chaco, Xivii, BoomFrog, Merc, Darkpit
Against Claiming (2) - UtopianPoyzin, Osieorb

Remaining - somi, Frozen

somi said he'd go with majority
#HBC | FrozeηFlame where do you stand?


BoomFrog why did you like Chaco's post if you changed your mind on claiming?
Chaco which points of mine did you feel were lacking?