COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[Xivii]

Oh nevermind, didn't read Frozen's post above, so that's 6 for claiming.

somitomi could you claim when you're next on

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount 1-9

[2] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame, Dark Pit
[2] Darkpit54: Xivii, Boomfrog
[1] somitomi : Chaco
[1] #HBC FrozeηFlame : UtopianPoyzin
[1] Xivii : osieorb18

[2] Not Voting: mərcurı, somitomi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is: 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

/shrug

if this slot makes it to endgame my faith in this community will be irreparably shaken

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog BoomFrog why did you like Chaco's post if you changed your mind on claiming?

Oh right, missed replying to that. I liked his order, even if I don't think we should claim right now.

Btw, you've got me listed as for claiming, but I'm against it. But I'm not strongly against it, so meh.

 

[BoomFrog]

Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th

This weekend is better then most, but it's not a great time for deadlines for me. If we are going to mass claim we should do so soon. A mass claim would probably help sort Somi a bit by giving some more context to their perspective. I doubt it will help sort UP. I think it's low value either way and would rather just stop discussing it. How about abstain. I abstain from caring about a mass claim.

 

[BoomFrog]

osieorb18 Would you consider it ******* modding to have a game entitled Completely Vanilla Mafia but have roles that actually do something functionally useful?

 

[osieorb18]

Okay, yeah, you're right. Cat 1. Alright, I will channel the spirit of town-DP:

Oh, my role is just that everyone knows my role. Wow, that... doesn't actually do anything. Huh. It's like a weak innocent child. Well I was expecting a vanilla role, so I guess this is pretty much vanilla. I bet everyone got a not-technically vanilla role. Oh, Chaco's role also doesn't do anything. Lol, guess we all do nothing.

Now I will channel the spirit of scum-DP:

Oh, my role is just that everyone knows my role. That's like a fake innocent child. It's almost bastardly, but I guess it's not. Well I guess I can't fake claim anything. I'll just play it straight. Oh, Chaco is a weak miller, I wonder if there's a weak cop.

I guess what I'm saying is, Cat 1 is more likely from scum. Also, more that I've done this I've convinced myself that the "my role isn't *******" thought is much more likely from scum-DP. I've talked myself into it.


##Vote: Darkpit

BoomFrog I'm going to just put this out there:

My role technically does something.

 

[osieorb18]

osieorb18 Would you consider it ******* modding to have a game entitled Completely Vanilla Mafia but have roles that actually do something functionally useful?

No.

 

[osieorb18]

osieorb18 Would you consider it ******* modding to have a game entitled Completely Vanilla Mafia but have roles that actually do something functionally useful?

It would only be ******* if you said in the OP that all roles were non-vanilla.

 

[osieorb18]

So DP actually didn't get it, which feels like a scum perspective. If scum got "real" useless roles then they would be hesitant to assume that all of town got useless roles, but if a townie gets a useless role they will guess that others got useless roles as well. So this perspective feels like it's actually scummy. I'm leaning towards a DP yeet, but I really want to reevaluate tomorrow.

It really depends on the role. My role could be useful in the context of another role.

 

[osieorb18]

That’s town Frozen.

The fact that they jumped into the thread and didn't address any of the people scumreading them? I thought you disliked that in other cases.

 

[osieorb18]

For Claiming (5) - Chaco, Xivii, BoomFrog, Merc, Darkpit
Against Claiming (2) - UtopianPoyzin, Osieorb

Remaining - somi, Frozen

somi said he'd go with majority
#HBC | FrozeηFlame where do you stand?


BoomFrog why did you like Chaco's post if you changed your mind on claiming?
Chaco which points of mine did you feel were lacking?

If anyone other than myself feels that their role might be useful, I absolutely don't want a massclaim. If legitimately everyone feels their role is strictly between a vanilla role and a visitor role, then a massclaim could maybe be okay.

 

[osieorb18]

Chaco @mərcurı @Darkpit54 somitomi #HBC | FrozeηFlame BoomFrog @UtopianPoyzin Xivii

If we are doing a massclaim, please wait for everyone to claim whether or not their role does anything more than a visitor before anyone claims what their role is. Thank you.

 

[BoomFrog]

If anyone other than myself feels that their role might be useful, I absolutely don't want a massclaim. If legitimately everyone feels their role is strictly between a vanilla role and a visitor role, then a massclaim could maybe be okay.

Kinda hard to assess that without everyone essentially claiming if they are worth shooting. But your perspective makes sense.

I bet you a doughnut that there other role you'd interact with didn't exist or is ineffective in some way.

 

[osieorb18]

Kinda hard to assess that without everyone essentially claiming if they are worth shooting. But your perspective makes sense.

I bet you a doughnut that there other role you'd interact with didn't exist or is ineffective in some way.

Yeah...

I mean, if this game is X Visitors, Y Vanillas, and a tracker, that's derpy, but it's a possibility.
If it's X visitors, Y Vanillas, and Z roles which make other roles useful, that's another possibility.
If it's just X visitors and Y Vanillas, then there's no harm in a massclaim.

Even if it might get me nightkilled, I'mma put out there that my role has a high possibility of being useful depending on the roles of others, and otherwise is at least a visitor.

 

[osieorb18]

In the tracker situation, this game is objectively bull**** and Kary is a troll, but the game is not strictly *******, since Kary has not stated at any point that the setup is actually mountainous or even that there aren't any roles that do anything.

 

[BoomFrog]

Now is my time to give you side eye on the difference between bull**** and *******... But I get your point.

 

[osieorb18]

******* means that the mod is lying to the players. Bull**** just means that something annoying is happening.

 

[Chaco]

For Claiming (5) - Chaco, Xivii, BoomFrog, Merc, Darkpit
Against Claiming (2) - UtopianPoyzin, Osieorb

Remaining - somi, Frozen

somi said he'd go with majority
#HBC | FrozeηFlame where do you stand?


BoomFrog why did you like Chaco's post if you changed your mind on claiming?
Chaco which points of mine did you feel were lacking?

I just saw where I’ve missed that a few times, let me go back into the earlier pages a little bit and refresh myself on where I didn’t think it was of consequence. I remember there was the DP stiff I definitely recognized and others I wasn’t following

 

[Chaco]

osieorb18 to be honest I think it’s just the content of his last post. It’s how I remember town FF. Doesn’t match up to UPs game either. Seems more organized and stance taking. Gut town read.

 

[Chaco]

And who is actually scum reading FF and not just placing him in their PoE?

 

[osieorb18]

And who is actually scum reading FF and not just placing him in their PoE?

Fair. He hasn't really posted enough content. I got some bad pings from him here and there, particularly on some of his longer posts, but he's not obv!scum.

osieorb18 to be honest I think it’s just the content of his last post. It’s how I remember town FF. Doesn’t match up to UPs game either. Seems more organized and stance taking. Gut town read.

I feel like there's a lot of cold meta reads going on here, and I don't like it. What I mean by that is that there's a lot of "Let's compare these two games" without much in the way of focus on the context and the like. It makes it easy for scum to control reads.

 

[Chaco]

I ran into the same things last game after not playing for 6-7 years, and had a lot of issues with people playing meta based. It took me a while to solidify my own reads. With Pit here it’s not just meta, it’s a noticeable difference in his play. FF didn’t immediately ring any town bells for me in UPs game and did with his lost post here and the way he entered the game regarding the roles.

I’m particularly not a fan of meta based arguments myself, but in this case with DP it’s the baseline comparison

 

[Xivii]

Chaco @mərcurı @Darkpit54 somitomi #HBC | FrozeηFlame BoomFrog @UtopianPoyzin Xivii

If we are doing a massclaim, please wait for everyone to claim whether or not their role does anything more than a visitor before anyone claims what their role is. Thank you.

Based on the vote count, I'd say this has already been settled. So somitomi

For Claiming (5) - Chaco, Xivii, Frozen, Merc, 1/2 * [Darkpit, Boom]
Against Claiming (2) - Utopian, Osie

I agree with Chaco on Frozen's post. Frozen is the only player I hard town read.

 

[osieorb18]

I ran into the same things last game after not playing for 6-7 years, and had a lot of issues with people playing meta based. It took me a while to solidify my own reads. With Pit here it’s not just meta, it’s a noticeable difference in his play. FF didn’t immediately ring any town bells for me in UPs game and did with his lost post here and the way he entered the game regarding the roles.

I’m particularly not a fan of meta based arguments myself, but in this case with DP it’s the baseline comparison

It definitely feels more on the side of cold meta than context. Hot meta "personality" reads could be legitimate here, but we don't have that. Instead it's "These few games feel different." which is a pure cold meta read.

 

[osieorb18]

Based on the vote count, I'd say this has already been settled.

Don't you handwave me.

 

[osieorb18]

I'm extremely concerned with how hard Xivii is pushing his massclaim agenda, even if it might have some townie motivation. He's not taking any moments to think about it. He's pushing for it with zero reservations and ignoring, handwaving, or quickly moving on from any objections. This is not how town push a townie agenda.

 

[Xivii]

I'm extremely concerned with how hard Xivii is pushing his massclaim agenda, even if it might have some townie motivation. He's not taking any moments to think about it. He's pushing for it with zero reservations and ignoring, handwaving, or quickly moving on from any objections. This is not how town push a townie agenda.

There's nothing handwaving about it. For some reason, you and UP believe you have the ability to strongarm everyone against majority opinion. Your perspective isn't of greater value.

 

[Chaco]

From what I’ve seen/heard does he ever?

 

[osieorb18]

There's nothing handwaving about it. For some reason, you and UP believe you have the ability to strongarm everyone against majority opinion. Your perspective isn't of greater value.

I'm not strongarming anything. I've been pointing out since early into my entrance into the thread that this feels hasty and not thought out. That there is a lack of consideration on the massclaim, just "Guys, I want a massclaim, so you all should agree with me" from you and "Yes sir" from everyone else. That's people sheeping you without reading you. They even admit they haven't read you. This is not people thinking critically to solve the game.

If this game is in fact entirely red herring/useless/vanilla roles, then a D1 massclaim just confirms that to scum to little to no advantage to town.

But we can't even assume that. And if that's not the case, then a D1 massclaim gives scum a targeting list.

I've made clear that I'm willing to consider a massclaim, but I want better reasoning. I want people to think critically about the game, who is proposing the massclaim, and in what manner that proposal is being made.

That's not strongarming no massclaim. That's playing mafia.

You trying to silence discussion and strongarm a massclaim with no questions asked is an flat-out scumclaim.

 

[osieorb18]

From what I’ve seen/heard does he ever?

Why are you considering meta on players for which you have very little but not considering much the more established meta of Xivii being one of the strongest and most outspoken scum players in the forum?

 

[osieorb18]

Why are you considering meta on players for which you have very little but not considering much the more established meta of Xivii being one of the strongest and most outspoken scum players in the forum?

EBWOP: "the much more established"

 

[Xivii]

I proposed a mass claim, people agreed. No one's following me. It's just that from your perspective anyone that doesn't agree with you isnt thinking critically and is a mindless zombie.

 

[osieorb18]

I proposed a mass claim, people agreed. No one's following me. It's just that from your perspective anyone that doesn't agree with you isnt thinking critically and is a mindless zombie.

Nope. You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't call anyone a mindless zombie. Don't twist my argument to make it objectionable.

This is the second time you've intentionally misrepresented my posts. The last time I was able to count this way, I was also spot-on with catching mafia. And that wasn't even a micro, which is my strong area. I'm sorry that you got caught.

 

[Xivii]

If you think people are simply following me (wich they aren't) without thinking, you're essentially equating everyone to mindless zombie. People don't agree with your opinion so it must be the only explanation.

 

[Xivii]

I just realized how completely unnecessary 'h's after 'w's are. Let's boycott them.

 

[osieorb18]

If you think people are simply following me (wich they aren't) without thinking, you're essentially equating everyone to mindless zombie. People don't agree with your opinion so it must be the only explanation.

No. I'm saying that people aren't questioning your motives or the massclaim. If you want to tell me I'm wrong about that, then point out where it happens from people who agree with the massclaim. I'll wait.

 

[Xivii]

No. I'm saying that people aren't questioning your motives or the massclaim. If you want to tell me I'm wrong about that, then point out where it happens from people who agree with the massclaim. I'll wait.

No one who is for the mass claim has once cited me as the reason for it. My motives are irrelevant because I'm one person out of the majority who agree with it. You're trying to attribute the mass claim as Xivii's thing, but that's simply not the reality.

 

[somitomi]

Quick evening post before I go to bed, I don't really have the mental power for much more right now.

Usually in majority-only games, the elimination comes down to either the last few hours or is decided somewhere in the early-to-middle part of the day and is pondered for a while.

Oh, right, I'm used to games where whoever has the most votes at the end of the day gets the boot. Darkpit's assessment that I'm advanced+ is definitely wrong.

could you claim when you're next on

I could, but I want to comply with this next one, because that seems like a really prudent idea.

If we are doing a massclaim, please wait for everyone to claim whether or not their role does anything more than a visitor before anyone claims what their role is. Thank you.

My role is passive.

 

[Xivii]

somitomi why are ignoring the fact that that is already settled.