COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[Xivii]

Setup gaming on D1 is pretty much always more wine than on D2 in a closed setup, though. We knew that the noisy child existed.

Everything else was meh.

Honestly, absolutist approaches are a big pet peeve of mine. I think this is actually the source of why our world views conflict so much. There's no one best method for playing every game of mafia. Every situation is unique. Principles such as not claiming until L-1, utilizing all of the day time, mass claiming only if a certain point is reached, etc. are good as general guidelines, but when you treat them as dogma, you miss out on the opportunity that the uniqueness of a situation provides.

"Pretty much always" is an oxymoron that acknowledges that there are exceptions to the rule while suggesting that there aren't. Sure, the concept of not claiming in a closed setup is a good principle, but applying it to this situation was fallacious as the game was only a closed setup nominally. In truth, we had enough information to deduce what it was actually about. It was advertised as a completely vanilla game and I provided data on Kary's character and design style that I think were sufficient to conclude that the game being as advertised was highly probable.

 

[osieorb18]

Honestly, absolutist approaches are a big pet peeve of mine. I think this is actually the source of why our world views conflict so much. There's no one best method for playing every game of mafia. Every situation is unique. Principles such as not claiming until L-1, utilizing all of the day time, mass claiming only if a certain point is reached, etc. are good as general guidelines, but when you treat them as dogma, you miss out on the opportunity that the uniqueness of a situation provides.

"Pretty much always" is an oxymoron that acknowledges that there are exceptions to the rule while suggesting that there aren't. Sure, the concept of not claiming in a closed setup is a good principle, but applying it to this situation was fallacious as the game was only a closed setup nominally. In truth, we had enough information to deduce what it was actually about. It was advertised as a completely vanilla game and I provided data on Kary's character and design style that I think were sufficient to conclude that the game being as advertised was highly probable.

It's not dogma or absolutist. It's a way of saying that this particular game was not included in the exceptions.

 

[ranmaru]

If I replaced in D1 I would not have claimed and just focused on scum hunting. I'm glad I replaced in late game because I could just focus on scum hunting and I didn't even think of the setup. Could agree to an early D2 mass claim though but I wouldn't focus it on D1. Which is actually what ended up happening anyway. Yet one case to consider: What if only VT's and Mafia Goons were red herrings but still had real roles?

 

[BoomFrog]

It's not dogma or absolutist. It's a way of saying that this particular game was not included in the exceptions.

Well, now that we know the setup, in retrospect we can say an immediate mass claim D1 does not hurt town. So if this isn't an exceptional case then I can't imagine a game that is.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 4-1

[5] Not Voting - Chaco, osieorb18, BoomFrog, Xivii, Ranmaru

With 5 alive, it takes 3 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Wednesday September 1st 2021

 

[osieorb18]

Well, now that we know the setup, in retrospect we can say an immediate mass claim D1 does not hurt town. So if this isn't an exceptional case then I can't imagine a game that is.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. But the information we had was flavour which several people knew was false since Noisy Child, and heck, even Visitor, are not vanilla roles.

 

[Chaco]

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. But the information we had was flavour which several people knew was false since Noisy Child, and heck, even Visitor, are not vanilla roles.

Didn’t even think about the fact that noisy child was truthfully the only powered role here. Even if it wasn’t alignment indicative.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I think this problem may have something to do with that Towns on this site, for whatever reason, seem to be reluctant to put big wagons on people early in the day phase. This is something I've noticed as difference between here and mafiascum (xkcd was more similar to here). In MS, it's not uncommon for 2 or 3 wagons to run up to L-1 over the course of a day phase before someone gets yeeted. This is a great way for Towns to apply pressure to slots without actually needing to commit to a yeet. You might be able to get some more movement out of the lower activity slots if you actually have a threat to back it up.

from my experience

it's most fun if you have a few wagons throughout the day, especially some competing ones

it's really good for info and it feels good when you and your townreads consolidate on one target. you get this confidence that y'all have aligned and are about to flip a scum

but there's a sweetspot. sometimes too many wagons in one phase can be disorienting and annoying if you walk into town wagoning your top town read cuz they want to press buttons

i'm mostly saying this cuz i'm holding out hope for a 16/17 player game at some point and that size lends itself well to multiple wagons

 

[ranmaru]

but there's a sweetspot. sometimes too many wagons in one phase can be disorienting and annoying if you walk into town wagoning your top town read cuz they want to press buttons

They should be able to show that they are town though if they are. But I agree on having a sweetspot. I'm not sure where that is. I guess we'll figure it out.

 

[Chaco]

size dependent for sure, but I think more than 3 separate wagons past D1 in a 13p or less game is chaotic and detrimental