COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[Xivii]

Ran I blame losing on you changing your avatar back.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran I blame losing on you changing your avatar back.

Sorry I wanted to look more town

 

[ranmaru]

Skill leads to accuracy. Confidence in that skill can either build upon the accuracy or if that confidence itself is inaccurate, detract from it. But part of skill is constant reconsideration. And usually if your reconsideration is always ending up with the same result, either you're not strongly reconsidering, or you're correct.

Fair enough. Just means I need a better basis on reads. Still working that out.

 

[osieorb18]

Fair enough. Just means I need a better basis on reads. Still working that out.

Try a bunch of different things. Find out where you're most accurate by experience, and hone the areas where you're less accurate in addition to the areas where you are accurate.

I've been working hard in the few games I've played this year on analyzing votes and interactions, two areas where I was very weak in the past. I've been trying to push myself into the skill level where I'm doing gamestate reads. I'm still keeping my town-sorting strong. I'm still keeping my tonereads, my personality reads, and my mechanical analysis around as tools. But I'm trying to expand my toolbag while keeping an open mind because I know I'll get better that way.

I'm still spurning cold meta reads (Game X means that Game Y should be similar), but I'm accepting that other people can use it to good effect and considering other people's reads when making my own, even if those reads are based on cold meta.

Gamestate reads are about looking at everything. And the smaller the game, the more familiar you are with a bunch of different methods of analysis, the closer you can come to a reliable Day 1 solve.

 

[osieorb18]

I gotta say that the more I play the more I find that my tone-reading and gamestate-reading with adjustments for experience with the player works remarkably well for game-solving in mini and micro-sized games...

That said, here's the thing. I'm not some God of mafia play. I wouldn't even call myself an expert player. I know how to play well, and I've played with some of the best players across mafia communities. But I'm not at the same level as the mafia elite.

In terms of this game, I can say "I told you so" all day. But fundamentally the bigger point is that town players this game should be able to look back at the game and think about how they can improve rather than wasting time on angleshoots, on what-ifs, or the like. I can even look back and find mistakes in my own play. For example, I should have had more patience and not taken the bait from Xivii's shenanigans on Day 1. However, I can also recognize that while I made mistakes, and I know how to improve on that play, they were much smaller in context than the mistakes of the rest of the town, and were more a matter of delivery than of reads.

Anyways... Most of this will be based off of Day 1 since I don't have enough time to go through the whole game in harsh detail.

#HBC | Kary - Thanks for hosting! Setup was cute though I would argue that the trolling value would have been a bit more solid without the suggestion of the title. Also, I was amused by the "FRESH/SPOILED" on the spec chats. Even though I felt like I was being trolled by the setup, I very much appreciate your bedside manner in answering my questions of you. Very well done. I look forward to seeing more.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame - I KNEW IT! I think you exposed yourself by some bad faith posting and while it got you to the end, it won't be reliable in doing that in every game. Congratulations on pushing through this game, though! Hope to see you around!

BoomFrog - I had a few things that were making me suspicious of you near the end of Day 1, but overall I think you did a solid job at appearing town while trying to read. I would suggest trying to appear a bit more active in openly solving since I think that hurt most people's reads against you. That said, you played pretty decently during what I saw, and I look forward to seeing you around!

Chaco - You were a blast of fresh air. Skilled town who was towning up the whole game. I loved playing with you and hope to see you around in future games.

Darkpit54 - Don't be down on yourself! You'll get there as a player! I think your analysis ability has a ton of potential and you cooperated really well when you realized that you were likely to be mis-eliminated, which was in VERY good form. I look forward to seeing where you go next.

ranmaru - You asked me at one point about how to improve. Beyond facts before emotions, as I mentioned at the time, the other point is to always keep an open mind. The more options you give yourself, the more avenues you have to put together the puzzle which is a gamestate. Hope to see you around!

LaserGuy - I feel like you have a lot of good ideas, but you don't always show the confidence to strongly engage people with them. That said, your strength is recognizable and I expect to see you dying early throughout games. I look forward to seeing you around.

mərcurı - What happened? I know you sometimes have played low-content games elsewhere, but this was something else! I've seen you play better and I hope you return to doing so in future games!

somitomi - You played a solid game, and while you were firmly in many people's PoE, all that you would have needed to adjust to stay out of that danger more solidly was posting a little bit more. Your quality of posting was very respectable. I look forward to seeing you in future games!

Xivii - Sometimes when you're arguing with somebody, you manage to show empathy and open-mindedness and come to a healthy conclusion. At other times, you don't. Thankfully, in this game, you were mostly quite calm and respectful, and I think that was very commendable. You play at a higher level than many people here, but just like myself, you shouldn't let that get to your head. Hope to see you around!

UtopianPoyzin - You played quite respectably this game. I hope this isn't your last game forever. You still have that stigma which you partially impose on yourself of looking scummy even when you're not scummy. But you don't have to work to change it directly. You can just push through it by pushing yourself to be better and better. I would love to see you in future games. I hope that you stick around!

 

[ranmaru]

But fundamentally the bigger point is that town players this game should be able to look back at the game and think about how they can improve rather than wasting time on angleshoots, on what-ifs, or the like.

I agree on looking back to see what we can improve, and is something I'm going to think about for this game.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I hope this isn't your last game forever.

It is going to be my last game for some time. I’ll return whenever I get to hosting Decisive Games Mafia (which is the new name). It has been fun though, good games all around! Sorry especially to Xivii, Ran, and BoomFrog, for who I was the most rude to over the course of the game. Scum can eat it though

 

[LaserGuy]

It’s nothing against scum team whatsoever but look at the massive content difference between scum and town, and then the replacements and what happened D1. If you come in and play enough you’re still not lurking as compared to blatant play refusal. So there’s definitely an activity issue here, but it happens I get that. There’s not enough bodies to really have a fully active game here. That and most of us are older now, and have families, jobs, etc. had I not just started playing again, my activity probably wouldn’t be as insane as it has been either.

But you take the limelight of D1 off of those inactive slots, it lands on Somi soooo much more.

And it’s nothing personal against 3DSNinja but I would make them hydra with someone if they’re going to in a game.

I think this problem may have something to do with that Towns on this site, for whatever reason, seem to be reluctant to put big wagons on people early in the day phase. This is something I've noticed as difference between here and mafiascum (xkcd was more similar to here). In MS, it's not uncommon for 2 or 3 wagons to run up to L-1 over the course of a day phase before someone gets yeeted. This is a great way for Towns to apply pressure to slots without actually needing to commit to a yeet. You might be able to get some more movement out of the lower activity slots if you actually have a threat to back it up.

 

[ranmaru]

I do agree with wagoning as pressure. We should try to consider that more on day one.

 

[osieorb18]

I think this problem may have something to do with that Towns on this site, for whatever reason, seem to be reluctant to put big wagons on people early in the day phase. This is something I've noticed as difference between here and mafiascum (xkcd was more similar to here). In MS, it's not uncommon for 2 or 3 wagons to run up to L-1 over the course of a day phase before someone gets yeeted. This is a great way for Towns to apply pressure to slots without actually needing to commit to a yeet. You might be able to get some more movement out of the lower activity slots if you actually have a threat to back it up.

It's a trade-off, but this is a good point.

 

[osieorb18]

I wish I had given the time to openly teamsort in thread. I feel like I could have gotten there in three ways and then potentially better proven my point.

 

[Chaco]

Seeing this game through, I really wonder if DGames can even support a game larger than 9 players with consistent activity.

 

[Chaco]

I think this problem may have something to do with that Towns on this site, for whatever reason, seem to be reluctant to put big wagons on people early in the day phase. This is something I've noticed as difference between here and mafiascum (xkcd was more similar to here). In MS, it's not uncommon for 2 or 3 wagons to run up to L-1 over the course of a day phase before someone gets yeeted. This is a great way for Towns to apply pressure to slots without actually needing to commit to a yeet. You might be able to get some more movement out of the lower activity slots if you actually have a threat to back it up.

I think it’s because there isn’t enough activity to do so, it’s the same people trading off votes and discussing. 1-2 isn’t going to pressure them at all. If it was stated that this should go into play, it might, but on its own I don’t see it happening. But a lot of the issue is everything is getting sorted hours before deadline and it’s a flurry of new information that is more than the 3 days prior combined.

 

[osieorb18]

Seeing this game through, I really wonder if DGames can even support a game larger than 9 players with consistent activity.

It might not be simple. The activity level in Sumting Sumting was okay, but that took a lot out of me as a host.

 

[Chaco]

It might not be simple. The activity level in Sumting Sumting was okay, but that took a lot out of me as a host.

Yeah I can only imagine. It’s been awhile for me so maybe I’ll take it well when it comes around. On the off chance it fills and I don’t have to chop up the set up.

 

[Xivii]

#HBC | Kary I liked this setup and flavor a lot. Your style of game design, based on the games I've read/played (This, Seven Sins, and Tranquillity), is one of my favorites (if not favorite). It's just elegant all around. Simple, aesthetic, and mechanically centered around one or two principles. I enjoyed the humor and cleverness of all of the roles this game, and I laughed hard at the flavor of my attempt to vig UP.

Again, the only recommendation I have in the future is making it clear that prod dodges aren't a form of content and openness/consistency with prods. With that clear, I think it will be easier for players to focus on those participating and promote a healthier game state. Overall, you and giraffelasergun were extraordinary hosts.

osieorb18 your approach to the game is dramatically different than mine, I wonder if it's possible for us to play cohesively. Even now, with post-game knowledge, your reads are unnatural to me, and I'm not really sure how you formed the conclusions you did. Great job nonetheless. Thinking through all the possible scenarios of if X had done Y or A had played this way, etc. I truly believe town would have lost this game in all but one scenario: I was not in the game and you were in the game from the beginning. I don't think any of us that played with Frozen in Midnight were ever going to yeet him because of how drastically different his tone and play was here from there. That really blindsided us. You (and perhaps UP) were the only one to really see him from an unbiased point of view. However, even if you had been here in the beginning, your point of view wouldn't have been enough with me in the game because of how much we conflict with each other.

BoomFrog I was glad to see that your play was much more involved this game. As you stated when I asked you if you were playing differently this game, I felt that your play here was much more "townie" than your previous couple of games. I was pretty shocked you scum read my slot in the end! The distrust between us a hilarious neverending spiral. To be clear, it's not that I needed like some craziness to enjoy the game. I enjoyed the discussions between me, you, Chaco, and DP. I just found the coasting to be a damper and some other things. Of course, we know not that 2 of the 4 coasters were scum. Literally yeeting among that group would have been a 50/50 hit rate lol. To answer your question honestly about Merc, I scumread him at like 10% compared to DP at 75% at the end of the day. I still felt like Merc should go at the time, however, because I was seriously beginning to doubt DP flipping scum and was afraid of the outcome. And since we were going to need to yeet Merc anyway, decided to go there to give us more time to consider DP. I didn't answer this when you asked me because it looked like you were trying to trap me.

 

[ranmaru]

1. Chaco

Good to see you after all these years. I'm not sure I have much to say to you, I skimmed your posts like DP's since I replaced in late. I gut towned you though. GG on getting nk'd

2. 3DSNinja

I think in the future I would suggest you hydra with someone. I'm open to hydraing with you if you have trouble opening up. I partially feel responsible for making you fear yeets here, and I would love to help if you are still interested.

osieorb18

As I said, I think you should haven't brushed off FF's questioning. Even if you didn't, I am not sure if a PBPA would accomplish your goal of convincing others even if they believe you are town. Cross over I misyeeted him and was afraid I'd do the same here. I need to improve my manner of reading of FF. Thanks for replacing in. I would have reacted in a similar way to you, but I probably wouldn't have pushed Xiivi though. I would just nope to mass claiming.

3. mərcurı

well, I think I get what you were doing but still. you took it a bit far. This site is also one that has been cursed with inactivity so it's understandable why town would want to focus on an inactive lynch after being so tired of that sort of thing. I KNOW you were intentionally doing it to probably see how people react to you but I feel like you should have contributed something at the end of the day to make people see you might be town etc. I remember you saying 'no, no he's right' lol. Anyway I do want to see you play more, it's why I invited you

4. DarkPit54

I kind of skimmed your play since by the time I replaced in I was just focusing on the slots that were alive. I don't have much to say about your play but I didn't really find you suspicious for the role logic because I KNOW how that feels to get sussed over some setup theory lmao. COUGH*laserguy*COUGH

oh yeah I guess pushing xiivi after osie came in might have been opportunistic idk

5. somitomi

Well, I think spending more time on your posts might help you. You made constant read mistakes, but I don't know if that was a consistent thing for you so I was ... overlooked it. kicks self I think maybe if you get more confident in your town game, you'll be able to use what you know from your town game in your scum game and then when your scum game gets better you'll use it to help your town game... mafiaception

You said that you were tired of reading and re-reading but I think you are wrong to think that less reading will help you. Of course it can lead you off track like my re-reading has done but it might get you on track. But I feel more reading will help you be more invested.

One thing I have learned is posting in early game helps me stay invested. Interacting with other players also helps. Maybe you can try that.

I get the feeling that the more you would get invested, you would prefer to make wall posts. Not against that. You might have to if you have a busy schedule. How about you take notes?

Anyway, GG

6. #HBC FrozeηFlame

Good play. I feel I might have had a better bead if I had more interaction with you this game. Shame I let it end before you posted more. Well deadline was soon anyway.

7. BoomFrog

I think I found you suspicious for not sticking your neck out. It really seemed like you were playing lowkey to prioritize survivability over determining scum. (Reads list with one scum lean!!) I've already stated that I think your mindset with your scumread and not listening to them can improve. Yet you were getting things right in the end, you had a good question to Frozen about his paranioa of me, but then you asked him to vote me... lol that just felt so counter productive there. Again I think it's a product of overlooking Frozen+Somi and even I did that too. If there was something you felt was town indicative that I missed please let me know. I kind of got two town pings today but I felt like you were in such a good position that you were confident you could do such things for the sake of a scum win condition. In a way I guess I was wine-ing myself. I also think an actual ordered reads list would have helped overall. If I'm scum asking for an ordered reads list, am I hurting or helping town? Hmm. Anyway I think you played well regardless. I was obviously reading you with your experience in mind. I'm still way off in reading you, and others. At least you can see my town perspective of you.

8. Utopian Poyzin

As I have said before, I think it will help you to reconsider more. Yet you did somewhat, which I do praise you for. I also think your read on Boom was correct but it was more due to paranoia of Xiivi. I think you need to re-think your basis of reads at times. I have to as well for my own. Twice now, you have seen town push and misyeet twice and get blamed for it. I think the important thing here to realize is that scum understand town may do this, and will want to take advantage of such situations and the fall out. I remember as scum planning to be off wagon once, so the heat doesn't go my way. I know that from your pov, my slot had been in a bad spot there. It was hard to argue against, I did all I could to show that I was town, even dug to show who I believe to be scum.

Another thing, you activity fell off and that didn't do you any favors. Try your best to be active. I thought you were just scum trying to emulate your OASIS self. Although you did seem more natural here. I think if you were more active, easier to town read you.

So I think it's two things you need to improve: How you are read, and how you apply your reads. I think you already have improved somewhat, but still have some room to grow.

9. Xivii

I'll say that I disagreed with the move to go back to Merc. More so because it wasn't your scumread, and it made you look bad. It was hard for you to argue against it (to Boom). Coming in I thought it was scumZen who was trying to get misyeets as always. I was surprised I replaced you. That was my only concern though, otherwise I townleaned you for the rest of your play.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

NIGHT ACTIONS, MOD NOTES, GAME-RELATED INFORMATION

THE FUNDAMENTALS

the idea behind this setup is that everyone is basically vanilla
but also that no-one can be certain that everyone is vanilla

i think you could make an argument like 'oh kary would never give the noisy child role to mafia'
but i kind of would. so i don't think there's anything like that which is too problematic.

Spoiler: NIGHT ACTIONS

Night 1 Actions --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

somitomi (mafia night kill)- Kill osieorb18
UtopianPoyzin (pop-gun vigilante) - Shoot Xivii (does nothing)
osieorb18 (slow bodyguard) - No action
BoomFrog (distracted mailman) - message Xivii (distractedly redirected to himself)

Woof woof woof. Woof. Woof woof. Woof woof woof woof. Woof woof. Woof. Woof woof woof woof. Woof woof.
- Ribbit

Xivii (novice of all trades) - "Investigate: somitomi"

you decide to investigate somitomi. first, you want to get into character. you put on your dad's raincoat, which is too big for you, and then you find a pencil to tuck behind your ear, and a ring-bound notepad to record the details of your investigation. you feel prepared. after some investigation work, you review your results.

target: somitomi
alignment: ???
role: unknown
joined smashboards: May 1, 2020
avatar: Daria

Night 2 Actions --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

utopianpoyzin (popgun vig) - no action
somitomi - night kill Chaco
boomfrog (dist. mailman) message Chaco (n2- junk message instead)

Dear Chaco
Who can you trust? That is always the question. Can you even trust yourself? I wouldn't.
Sincerely,
BoomFrog

xivii (novice of all trades) - vig: up

your target is utopianpoyzin, and your plan is fool-proof. you dress in dark clothes, and wait patiently behind a tree in your front yard. when your target finally approaches, you ready your weapon. you shoot poyzin square in the back, but he keeps walking, oblivious to his fate. you holster your potato gun, and make your escape. the perfect crime.

Spoiler: MOD NOTES

noisy child needs to be announced at game start!

novice of all trades says to send me a description of an action.
so I will reply with a description of the result.
the result will be nothing/useless.
originally the plan was to give no feedback, only basic messages like

1 - oops, you think you made a mistake.
2 - hmm, that didn't seem to work!
3 - have you tried turning it off and on again?

but I decided a more detailed answer was a better fit for the role
(you can see the results under above 'night actions')

bird watcher na results are predetermined:
n1 - you forgot your binoculars! you didn't see any birds
n2 - it was too dark outside! you didn't see any birds
n3 - it rained heavily! you didn't see any birds
n4 - you watched vigilantly all night! you didn't see any birds

mailman results are predetermined:
n1 - message returned to mailman
n2 - junk message sent to target (unless target is anti-social neighbor, in which case message lost)
"BENITO'S PIZZA, Fast, Fresh, Flavorful! FREE Delivery on orders over $30."
n3 - message is sent to bodyguard > miller > lost instead.
n4 - message is lost

 

[ranmaru]

Thank you Kary and GLG for hosting this game. Was fun to read and replace into. Glad I wasn't yeeted.

 

[ranmaru]

I was going to protect myself as a joke if game continued.

 

[LaserGuy]

Seeing this game through, I really wonder if DGames can even support a game larger than 9 players with consistent activity.

This game had 2000 posts. That's huge for a micro game, especially one that ended fairly quickly. Activity overall isn't the problem per se, it's just that it isn't distributed evenly among the players. You basically have one group of players that put in 400-500 posts in a game, and other that can only manage maybe 50-100 posts per game, and it's hard for these two groups to interact with each other. I know for myself, I've been one of the lowest postcount players in every game I've played here, and people like bessie and somitomi post a lot less than I typically do. I think getting everyone up to the 400-500 post level is probably not going to be feasible for many people. Ideally I would love to see the lower postcount players bring up their content level, and the higher postcount players try to bring theirs down and everyone meet somewhere in the middle.

 

[Xivii]

I don't really see you as a low post count player though because the posts you make have a lot of meat in them.

 

[Chaco]

I carrot what Xivii said. You post with such magnitude when you do it essentially covers the 10 I make in a flurry responding to stuff as it goes on. But I do agree with what you’re saying though. But you don’t fit into the category you put yourself in cause you actually scale back and cover everything you’ve missed. Low post count with posting in the moment is the issue I think.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

#HBC | Kary I liked this setup and flavor a lot. Your style of game design, based on the games I've read/played (This, Seven Sins, and Tranquillity), is one of my favorites (if not favorite). It's just elegant all around. Simple, aesthetic, and mechanically centered around one or two principles. I enjoyed the humor and cleverness of all of the roles this game, and I laughed hard at the flavor of my attempt to vig UP.

Again, the only recommendation I have in the future is making it clear that prod dodges aren't a form of content and openness/consistency with prods. With that clear, I think it will be easier for players to focus on those participating and promote a healthier game state. Overall, you and giraffelasergun were extraordinary hosts.

osieorb18 your approach to the game is dramatically different than mine, I wonder if it's possible for us to play cohesively. Even now, with post-game knowledge, your reads are unnatural to me, and I'm not really sure how you formed the conclusions you did. Great job nonetheless. Thinking through all the possible scenarios of if X had done Y or A had played this way, etc. I truly believe town would have lost this game in all but one scenario: I was not in the game and you were in the game from the beginning. I don't think any of us that played with Frozen in Midnight were ever going to yeet him because of how drastically different his tone and play was here from there. That really blindsided us. You (and perhaps UP) were the only one to really see him from an unbiased point of view. However, even if you had been here in the beginning, your point of view wouldn't have been enough with me in the game because of how much we conflict with each other.

Seconding everything re: #HBC | Kary and the design, it really was clever tho I definitely think noisy child is a bit overcentralizing in an essentially mountainous game and could and should have probably been replaced with literally any other red herring that doesn't involved mod confirmed public information. Very susceptible to metagaming and arguments like a mod would never allow such a unique role in a game like that to be scum aligned etc etc. I know you just just wrote roles and randomly assigned alignments but short of you literally confirming that in the rules, this kind of speculation can open up and punish the scum for a very arbitrary reason

generally speaking though this game was extremely well run and I have zero complaints about the way is was modded.

Xivii I'm really happy to hear the bolded because after Midnight I was very frustrated with my play and knew I really needed to make a big strategy change when I rolled scum again if I wanted to have any shot. I was terrified of getting spiked D1 again and leaving somi alone for a long ride. A lot of my style changes were very calculated and I'm happy to hear my extra deliberation and carefulness in choosing my tone and general approach to my pushes helped throw the scent off the trail. I very seriously rewrote MANY of my posts after initially drafting them because they sounded too much like midnight ops posts

 

[ranmaru]

That did blindside me as well, it certainly influenced my read and I will try to be more willing to interact with everyone. EVERYONE

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

6. #HBC FrozeηFlame

Good play. I feel I might have had a better bead if I had more interaction with you this game. Shame I let it end before you posted more. Well deadline was soon anyway.

I was actually extremely frustrated when you replaced in because I knew that with prolonged interaction that you would much more easily flip on me then xivii would have. I kinda felt punished for my NK choice with the surpise of you replacing in with literally ZERO warning from xivii's slot lol

ultimately I figured I had to do my best to not destabilize the gamestate and let read inertia keep pressure off me. Obviously I was worried UP would thunderdome me and always counted on that as a real possibility but I figured any prolonged thunderdome **** would paint any other slot but somi as my partner and he could clean up in the 2v1 easy. but yeah, coming in on D3 with not a lot happening until close to deadline is a brutal position to be in, develop reads, and game solve all while under crazy time based and lylo pressure. I just had an advantageous position and rode it out, I didn't outplay you at all, or atleast it didn't feel that way, so don't beat yourself up over it

 

[ranmaru]

I think your paranioa of me was a stretch with what I gave you. But I think if you pocketed me I might still town read you not sure. As in, if you didn't push me I might have no qualms of your slot but I would make sure to get reads out of you.

 

[osieorb18]

osieorb18 your approach to the game is dramatically different than mine, I wonder if it's possible for us to play cohesively. Even now, with post-game knowledge, your reads are unnatural to me, and I'm not really sure how you formed the conclusions you did. Great job nonetheless. Thinking through all the possible scenarios of if X had done Y or A had played this way, etc. I truly believe town would have lost this game in all but one scenario: I was not in the game and you were in the game from the beginning. I don't think any of us that played with Frozen in Midnight were ever going to yeet him because of how drastically different his tone and play was here from there. That really blindsided us. You (and perhaps UP) were the only one to really see him from an unbiased point of view. However, even if you had been here in the beginning, your point of view wouldn't have been enough with me in the game because of how much we conflict with each other.

I think any team interaction is possible. It's all about keeping an open mind. We are very different people though.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I agree with this if there was an indication that he had the potential to be replaced. He wasn't technically breaking any rules though and wasn't receiving prods. I'd recommend in the future that it's made explicit that that prod dodging is not a form of content and there be a greater degree of open warning/prods.

Again, the only recommendation I have in the future is making it clear that prod dodges aren't a form of content and openness/consistency with prods. With that clear, I think it will be easier for players to focus on those participating and promote a healthier game state. Overall, you and

I sent 7 prods and 1 warning this game.
I don't think anyone requested a prod in the thread, or in private, that hadn't already been sent recently.
We kept a close eye on activity, but in general my position was 'we are aware of the issue and we are dealing with it'.

It's true that I could have posted in the game thread as soon as anyone was sent a prod. But my goal with prods is to prompt players into activity. I don't want the focus of the game to be on counting prods or expecting replacements.

The reason things played out the way that they did is that, from my perspective, it only became really clear that mercuri did not care about the game, when they did not show up at the end of Day 1. I agree that their activity was low throughout Day 1, and their attitude did not seem great, but from my perspective, it was still undecided how seriously they were treating the game.

I could have taken a harder line with activity this game, and replaced a slot as soon as I had any doubts, and so I might have replaced somi and poyzin and frozen and its a completely different game dominated by an ever-changing player list. I gave people the benefit of the doubt, and I did the best that I could with what I was given.

 

[osieorb18]

Xivii I'm really happy to hear the bolded because after Midnight I was very frustrated with my play and knew I really needed to make a big strategy change when I rolled scum again if I wanted to have any shot. I was terrified of getting spiked D1 again and leaving somi alone for a long ride. A lot of my style changes were very calculated and I'm happy to hear my extra deliberation and carefulness in choosing my tone and general approach to my pushes helped throw the scent off the trail. I very seriously rewrote MANY of my posts after initially drafting them because they sounded too much like midnight ops posts

In my case, I caught you in a very similar way way to another player, Cuthalion, over on another site. Cuthalion has not had notable play here, but I caught him out for bad faith over on DLP and I think in both games I needed to find a way to convince town of it.

 

[osieorb18]

There's a degree of strength to that, but at the same time, you also had a degree of luck because had I had the time to spend an extra couple hours focused on writing out a case, I could have gotten there more thoroughly on convincing people.

 

[osieorb18]

There's a degree of strength to that, but at the same time, you also had a degree of luck because had I had the time to spend an extra couple hours focused on writing out a case, I could have gotten there more thoroughly on convincing people.

And I should have spent my time doing so.

In that vein, ignoring the leading questions was not the worst choice, it was just what I did with that time and my time outside of the game instead which was of less value.

 

[BoomFrog]

Sorry I wanted to look more town

Amusingly, the fact that you changed to an evil avatar in LYLO was a town ping for me.

Scum can eat it though

I know you are joking but this is the attitude that got you psyched up to insult "scum" xivii. Treat everyone with respect. Even your enemy.

I didn't answer this when you asked me because it looked like you were trying to trap me.

We must open our steely hearts, lest we starve ourselves of true companionship. Trust requires vulnerability.

I don't think any of us that played with Frozen in Midnight were ever going to yeet him because of how drastically different his tone and play was here from there.

Ahem....

Although, I'm really not sure why I agreed with you that Frozen was LockTown D2. I think I did the same thing, where I was worried about you trapping me into saying I was trying to distract from the DP yeet.

If there was something you felt was town indicative that I missed please let me know. I kind of got two town pings today but I felt like you were in such a good position that you were confident you could do such things for the sake of a scum win condition. In a way I guess I was wine-ing myself. I also think an actual ordered reads list would have helped overall. If I'm scum asking for an ordered reads list, am I hurting or helping town? Hmm.

Knowing my scum range as you do from Crossover, I really do think the only thing I did that was actually townie indicative was exactly what Xivii pointed out. That I was very concerned about being acknowledged as a driver of the DP yeet, which I wouldn't do if I know DP was town. Everything else was basically neutral. However, I do think my "enigma" play was townie motivated and shouldn't have added to your scum read. Not cooperative, doesn't necessarily mean scummy. In fact, blatantly uncooperative is probably townie coming from most players. (WIFOM, of course, for all future games with players who have read me saying this.)

Anyway, you asking for a reads list was townie, and if I hadn't been so deep in the tunnel I might have picked up on it and reconsidered. I'd already decided the battle lines before you even replaced in. I don't think you really had a chance, and you honestly, really seriously, did better then I'd expect 90% of players to do in that situation.

 

[Xivii]

It's true that I could have posted in the game thread as soon as anyone was sent a prod. But my goal with prods is to prompt players into activity. I don't want the focus of the game to be on counting prods or expecting replacements.

The reason things played out the way that they did is that, from my perspective, it only became really clear that mercuri did not care about the game, when they did not show up at the end of Day 1. I agree that their activity was low throughout Day 1, and their attitude did not seem great, but from my perspective, it was still undecided how seriously they were treating the game.

That's fair. It's not that you have to announce when a player is prodded, though I do think it should be done, it's more that we didn't have an idea of how you personally would regard activity and prod dodges as a mod, in particular, because there was no indication of it in the rules. I agree with you that it didn't become clear until the end of the phase, and had I been of clearer mind at the time, I would have simply asked you what your policy was.

 

[Xivii]

For example, in osie's ruleset, the activity rules are very explicit and thorough, so the need to play around or speculate about activity doesn't really arise.

 

[ExLight]

lmsdo thsi tsetup
i wantd to spectst e i tbyt untook youo lonk

gos jdit

I WAS BASMBOOZLRD THO TJIS WASNT CALONNA
i didnjt johby jaut because it jeoufb t it was canilla...

 

[ExLight]

btw dgg scum

 

[ExLight]

wait it ssd schtslly Vnanolla exgeot for the noisy child kidna
LMAO

grat setup actualy gg

 

[osieorb18]

What was that? ...

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

lmsdo thsi tsetup
i wantd to spectst e i tbyt untook youo lonk

gos jdit

I WAS BASMBOOZLRD THO TJIS WASNT CALONNA
i didnjt johby jaut because it jeoufb t it was canilla...

Thank you ExLight for your words of wisdom. We will take that to heart.