COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[Xivii]

I don't see this conversation bearing anymore fruit.

Thoughts on the game itself in a bit.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah I am going to agree to disagree. Open a thread to discuss it if you want Osie.

 

[somitomi]

Playing to your win condition is such an arbitrary rule that it usually doesn't have a definition for town.

Well, I guess the mod has to apply "I know it when I see it" rather than any rigorous definition

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm going to eat dinner because I can't keep up with all this discussion anyways.

Also no-one 'liked' my post with the role pms reveal so...

 

[osieorb18]

Well, I guess the mod has to apply "I know it when I see it" rather than any rigorous definition

I've talked about this with a lot of different hosts and pondered it myself. And in the end the most rigorous definitions, and what "I know it when I see it" comes down to, amount to:

"The only way to play against your win condition within standard mafia roles is to claim mafia and claim your teammates, regardless of your alignment."

 

[BoomFrog]

Xivii I’m voting you because you are either scum or an absolute dumbass. I’m hesitant to believe you’re an absolute dumbass

Xivii, I’m not calling you a dumbass. I’m calling scum a dumbass because I’m perfectly comfortable with doing so. It just so happens that the two happen to align for this game.

So this is, in my opinion, the most fraught part of mafia. The "Dumb or Scum" read, or the quantum insult. UtopianPoyzin I know you made this post with the 100% conviction that Xivii was scum, so you didn't consider this an insult. But your second quote is completely false. You were saying Xivii is either scum or dumb. You were calling town-Xivii dumb and using that as evidence that town-xivii didn't exist.

I just want to remind everyone to be carefuly with DoS language. Always consider that your target might actually be town. You can say they misplayed if they are town, but don't say they were stupid. It's easy to insult a hypothetical that you don't think exists, but you should make a habit of not insulting any version of someone.

 

[Chaco]

On the flip side, lower amounts of content mean that you are less likely to leap on something incorrect. Town players have the occasional scumtell. Scum players have the occasional towntell.

Looking at all players, including the lurkers, and trying to draw blood out of a stone on a read on them on Day 1 is GOOD TOWN PLAY.

I work in the complete opposite way, greater amounts of content allow for consistency to be formed.

 

[osieorb18]

I work in the complete opposite way, greater amounts of content allow for consistency to be formed.

This is ALSO true. But dismissing your ability to read someone because they are low content is handicapping yourself as a player.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

So this is, in my opinion, the most fraught part of mafia. The "Dumb or Scum" read, or the quantum insult. UtopianPoyzin I know you made this post with the 100% conviction that Xivii was scum, so you didn't consider this an insult. But your second quote is completely false. You were saying Xivii is either scum or dumb. You were calling town-Xivii dumb and using that as evidence that town-xivii didn't exist.

I just want to remind everyone to be carefuly with DoS language. Always consider that your target might actually be town. You can say they misplayed if they are town, but don't say they were stupid. It's easy to insult a hypothetical that you don't think exists, but you should make a habit of not insulting any version of someone.

For some god-forsaken reason I thought that acting like an obnoxious, brash child was a good idea, which it was not. I was aware of the **** coming out of my mouth but didn’t hesitate to say it anyway. And for that, I’m sorry to anybody that I made uncomfortable this game from directly or indirectly insulting them.

 

[Chaco]

This is ALSO true. But dismissing your ability to read someone because they are low content is handicapping yourself as a player.

I’ll claim the handicap there, because it takes interaction for me to form reads.

 

[ranmaru]

I do agree that we should strive to avoid insults. That just then becomes personal.

 

[ranmaru]

That's nice. Unfortunately, I 100% don't care about your slot's opinion anymore.

I think having this mindset even with a player you find suspicious is not best.

 

[osieorb18]

I work in the complete opposite way, greater amounts of content allow for consistency to be formed.

This is ALSO true. But dismissing your ability to read someone because they are low content is handicapping yourself as a player.

I’ll claim the handicap there, because it takes interaction for me to form reads.

Essentially, the amount of content should affect the strength of your read, and to a degree lower content can be scummier, but unless someone is legitimately posting zero posts, there's always something there, and saying "There's no way to form a read outside of content" is inaccurate. Saying "My read will be weaker", sure. But that's what getting better at the game is all about. Being able to make a more reliable read on very little. Yes, I made mistakes this game. But I also had a correct solve by the end of Day 1, and that's directly what led to my death on Night 1. Frozen made clear that mafia was afraid of me. And I was able to get that solve because I had an open mind and I didn't handicap myself.

And I absolutely didn't angleshoot such as saying that I should wait for a replacement.

 

[ranmaru]

I think talking out why you felt Frozen-Somi was unlikely was an important avenue you overlooked, and you (Boom) were still considering if Somi was covering up with excuses or not. Just curious why you didn't actually see what I was saying with Somi.

 

[ranmaru]

Like Sabrar says, I should not have voted outside of a thunder dome (I didn't think too deeply about it) and tried to consider that pairing as well for the future so that all options are cross checked.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Like Sabrar says, I should not have voted outside of a thunder dome (I didn't think too deeply about it) and tried to consider that pairing as well for the future so that all options are cross checked.

If it makes it better, you voting for me would have ended the game anyway, so I do appreciate your hesitation.

 

[ranmaru]

If it makes it better, you voting for me would have ended the game anyway, so I do appreciate your hesitation.

It does, and anytime.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The biggest bummer is that I didn’t get a chance to officially thunderdome with Frozen because the game ended by the time I got back to make my case

 

[ranmaru]

My goal was to aggressively try to convince UP I was town to see how far I can go. I don't seem to have a good skill in persuasion, so that was also why I was intent on less voting and more discussion.

I would appreciate any critique on my play. Thank you.

 

[ranmaru]

I think next time, from learning our lessons here, I am sure we could probably discover scum and win.

 

[osieorb18]

I think next time, from learning our lessons here, I am sure we could probably discover scum and win.

Have people truly learned their lessons? Are they likely to do so?

I don't know.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to try to learn mine here.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I don't seem to have a good skill in persuasion

I also have a habit of becoming unbelievably dense when in a tunnel, so I wouldn’t say it’s your fault.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I think this is an improvement for me from Oasis, even if I won in Oasis and got mopped with this game.

 

[ranmaru]

I have used to tunnel a lot and when I read those games over, I thought to myself "How did I miss that?" and so I tried being more flexible with my reads. Yet that also became a problem of where I'd 'flip' my reads and then people have a hard time reading me even if I'm the top town.

 

[ranmaru]

I think this is an improvement for me from Oasis, even if I won in Oasis and got mopped with this game.

I do think this was an improvement for you, yes. I noticed it. I was just wrong in the end.

 

[Rajam]

Guys

Add the Replace: player command on future games

When majority is reached, mod can feel free to replace the chosen player

 

[Xivii]

No!

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I’m just happy that I re-evaluated to a degree. Voting for Ran would have been the worst outcome for me, especially after voting the slot on D1 and D2.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Guys

Add the Replace: player command on future games

When majority is reached, mod can feel free to replace the chosen player

**** this would save me so much bother

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I do think this was an improvement for you, yes. I noticed it. I was just wrong in the end.

I mean, like, I acted just as obstinate in this game. However, most of my posts were at least me trying to solve and they were all game-related this time, and I only ******* about hating mafia once instead of having a mental breakdown

 

[osieorb18]

Guys

Add the Replace: player command on future games

When majority is reached, mod can feel free to replace the chosen player

No. You message the host. This should never be done in the thread.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

damn

i only skimmed this from time to time but from what i saw everyone played really well. like damn there was a lot of good play on both sides from what i saw

props to frozen balling out especially lol i thought he was town

gg all

 

[ranmaru]

Nah I disagree, replacing out in thread is fine.

 

[osieorb18]

We're playing mafia, not Calvinball, and game sanctity is a real issue whether you like it or not.

Rajam ranmaru Xivii

 

[ranmaru]

I’m just happy that I re-evaluated to a degree. Voting for Ran would have been the worst outcome for me, especially after voting the slot on D1 and D2.

Good stuff on that. You may realize that confidence leads to inaccuracy. As I am one to be confident quite often, yet whenever I'm not as confident on something I am more accurate. This is why I'm more open to reconsidering nowadays. I was confident here and oop.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No. You message the host. This should never be done in the thread.

We're playing mafia, not Calvinball, and game sanctity is a real issue whether you like it or not.

Rajam ranmaru Xivii

please have this discussion somewhere else

 

[ranmaru]

My bad.

 

[ranmaru]

I got the yeet I wanted, but not the one I deserved.

 

[osieorb18]

Good stuff on that. You may realize that confidence leads to inaccuracy. As I am one to be confident quite often, yet whenever I'm not as confident on something I am more accurate. This is why I'm more open to reconsidering nowadays. I was confident here and oop.

Skill leads to accuracy. Confidence in that skill can either build upon the accuracy or if that confidence itself is inaccurate, detract from it. But part of skill is constant reconsideration. And usually if your reconsideration is always ending up with the same result, either you're not strongly reconsidering, or you're correct.