Complete Matchup Discussion: Jigglypuff

[M4ge]

I play this matchup a bunch with hippiedude, and i'm thinking 55:45 Luigi's favor.

Your juggle game is a really important part of this matchup as it adds a free 30% on us from 0% since we're hella heavy.

If you see Link offstage, just go for an ledgehog. His landing lag on his upb if he lands on the stage can be easily punished with just about everything you have, up b, fsmash, w/e.

Be careful when he gets you offstage. His boomerang when thrown at the right angle can interrupt all forms of your recovery. Afterward, a normal Link player would try for a FH slow falling Dair offstage for damage/kill.

Approaching is gonna be one of your hardest things to do in this matchup. Zair is basically a giant wall. Coupled with the sliding mechanics of your shield and a combination of Link's other projectiles, it'll be a hell of a hard time getting close. Crouchwalking might be a very nice way to approach since Link's zair can't reach that low. Your downb is actually a pretty legit approach since Link needs his space to spam. Just try not to get to close or he'll jab you out again.

In terms of in the air, Links usually do the following:
1. Use second jump to pull a bomb.
2. FF/slow fall Dair
3. FFnair

At kill %s they'll try the dair to catch you off guard. As a combo breaker they'll probably use ffnair. When they're at high %s they'll probably double jump and pull a bomb out. Try to look for these situations.

Once you get past his zair wall it should be a straightforward jugglefest. Focus on staying in his zone and messing him up up close.

 

[luke_atyeo]

couldnt be bothered reading all that stuff, but as for whiplashing, you'd need to predict the down angled fsmash and DI down right? since link mains tend to want to DI up asap to avoid not being able to make it back to the stage, wouldnt that be really awkward for them to try to pull off mid-match, and if links do start doing it, luigi can just do an uptilted version instead, and links downward di to try whiplash would probably kill him.

also campers are a pain to get to with wigi, who wants to test which projectiles a falling cyclone will go through?

 

[mars16]

What I think about Luigi vs Link

Luigi is much faster and a better attacker and has Projectile
Link has more priority due to his sword and his sheild blocks by its self witch is cool

Luigi faster attacks and good juggling ability also if Luigi gets Link off the stage Luigi can keep him off with his Aerial Drop kick and if he goes for a sword spin but then he'd have done it to early and would not make it back to the stage.

Man what the **** do I now

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Seems like most people think its a 60-40 or 55-45.

Ill do the next matchup on Friday. You have till next friday for this matchup..wut

 

[ScAtt77]

I'm pretty sure Luigi won't have that much trouble approaching against arrows and boomerangs since they clank with his cyclone. Bombs are another problem though. Aerial cyclones go through Links Boomerang, but i'm not sure about arrows.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

*Will post in a sec*

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

I'm pretty sure Luigi won't have that much trouble approaching against arrows and boomerangs since they clank with his cyclone. Bombs are another problem though. Aerial cyclones go through Links Boomerang, but i'm not sure about arrows.

Bombs are links most used projectile and links spam game is very diffrent from many other characters, it comes in waves, three at a time, it actually reminds of close combat game when it comes to the flow of it. it combos, it mindgames, it can gain and loose momentum and spacing is still a huge part(link dont stand at one place and spam 123, 123, as if it was a walse or something). So if you clank with the rang then you will soon see a zair, bomb or arrow probs. Link can utilize Arrowcanceling in his spam game just as toon link but he needs to Full Jump instead. Links spam isnt a passive defensive manouver, it needs to be aggressive and fast to work, it isnt to force you to aproach, its there to put you in a bad position for the next projectile/attack. Links spam game can mindgame in following ways, combinations, timing, direction, and type. will next attack be a bomb+ arrow? will it be a rang + bomb? rang + arrow? and so on. Will he throw the bomb now? will he throw it later? drop? direction of the rang? upwards or downwards? is it safe to ride it or should I avoid it? Will link arrowcancel(2frames until the hitbox is out)? bombslide? there are a ton of things you need to think about when playing vs links spam. its not like pits or falcos spams which are hard just cause of the rate and range.

If you can read links next projectile, then please make me a favor and punish the player hard for it.

 

[pulse131]

eerm, link does not have to full jump, and unlike TL he can arrow cancel and still charge. links range game is better then TL's in more ways the viseversa because of wind pulling the enemy in or knocking them down into true combos (could hardly call jablock or arrow>galelock combos but watev). links bombs are slightly bigger with slightly bigger hitboxes, and can bombslide or use fsmash with them(this part i actually dont know if TL can do). arrow for link are better for midrange and can also contribute to mindgames. other then TL having a superior closecombat game, those are the differences. o ya TLs recovery dosnt suck. go gimp a link then go try to gimp a TL. thats what makes link trash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

links bombs are slightly bigger with slightly bigger hitboxes

Link's Bombs actually have smaller explosions, but kill at like 200%, while TL's kill at like 300%.

Generally speaking, this is probably one of Link's better matchups since he has more range, and appreciates having stuff being safe on block.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Im putting it down at 60-40 Luigi, because there are overall more stages...unless someone is really for 55-45

Starting Falcon

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, stagewise, Luigi's got Link down pretty well. 6/4 sounds reasonable then. Unless Norfair for some dumb reason is allowed LOL!

Captain Falcon...he can be annoying cuz he has a lot of run speed, so he can play a bait and punish game, and his U-air is a GREAT juggle tool. Otherwise Luigi is just plain better. More priority, more destructive combos, infinitely better recovery. Tornado zoning also owns Falcon and his low priority, and you have a better Jab so you outbox him. N-airing or U-airing him out of his Jab cancels will also make his life miserable.

So I'd say 65/35 Luigi. At best Falcon will be an annoyance if he uses his mobility to play "gay". Luigi's tools are just generally better, more effective and better at being "gay". CF should rarely be gimping Luigi, while Luigi on the other hand should have little trouble gimping CF with some good observation.

 

[TreK]

Can Falcon KO Luigi ?

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Yeah, Falcons best bets are his aerials against luigi, his uair, dair, and knee of fury.

 

[A2ZOMG]

on BF, if you're standing idly on a platform...his buffered SH Knee sweetspots.

That's pretty much his best KO option, and then after that, U-tilt, FRESH U-air or B-air, then maybe Up-B out of shield.

Yeah, he doesn't have very good KO moves.

 

[Yonder]

Luigi's nair and tornado in this matchup completely eats all of Falcon's move due to thier low priority, so Falcon can't followup much with his moves.In fact, most of Luigi's moves go through Falcon's no problem, aside from up b and uair possibly. But if Falcon goes for up B, tornado will go right though it. Falcon is also big, heavy, and tall, so he's easy to combo!

The only thing Falcon has in this matchup is overall more mobility over Luigi. Falcon's aerials are his only hope of surviving against Luigi, and Luigi takes him on there too.

So i'd throw this as 65-35 Luigi, easy enough matchup

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

btw, for recovering, Falcon can down air Weegee out of an up b and back air him out of a missile (even a misfire...but he will be hit also)

 

[Player-3]

dear lord this matchup is stupid as ****

80:20 at least

 

[John12346]

Luigi's Nair pretty much crushes any hope Falcon has to follow anything up.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Luigi's Nair pretty much crushes any hope Falcon has to follow anything up.

No, usually Falcons best follow up move is his uair, and properly spaced he can hit luigi even if he is doing his nair.

 

[teluoborg]

That's by far my most played matchup, and yes it's pretty ridiculous if Luigi plays defensive.

Do :
-Abuse Nair's interrupt capacity. Falcon tries to jab>jab>grab ? SDI up and Nair. You just annihilated 80% of Falcon's ground game.
-Destroy the other 20% with Bair.
-Use the cyclone to punish everything.
-Use the cyclone to go back on the ground (understand : when you're above Falcon). Seriously, it's harder for Falcon to outspace a cyclone than a Dair and he can easily punish your airdodges.
-Spam fireballz, it's super effective ! Spam them, and punish the reaction with a cyclone.
-Try to hit Falcon out of his second jump when he's recovering low (sourspot Dair and Fair are the best), grab the ledge and watch him fall to his death.

Don't :
-Use your cyclone if Falcon can shield or run away or Falcon kick you (the first part of it beats the cyclone). Falcon runs so fast that if he shields your cyclone you won't be able to retreat far enough to not be punished.
-Roll when you're in jab range. Luigi's roll is slow enough to be punished by a raptor boost on reaction.
-Recover low. You'll get hurt. Falcon's Utilt has a disjointed underground hitbox that beats the rising cyclone, and if you try to sweetspot your upB you let yourself open for a FF Bair or Uair.

All in all this matchup is really easy for Luigi as long as you keep in mind 4 things : the range of his Utilt, the speed of his Uair, his jab follow-ups and his overall mobility.

Remember that and it's 70-30 in Luigi's favor.


PS : about the KO moves, Falcon has Utilt, Uair, Bair and I personnally use FF nipple Dair since it's hard to see it coming.
Also Luigi's Bthrow can kill Falcon around 150-170%, the more you know.

 

[lordhelmet]

Pretty much what Teluoborg said. I don't feel like typing.

 

[Player-3]

i played biglou once with falcon

and i am never doing that again

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

I dunno if the matchup is that bad. Falcon can kinda camp weegee and uair is really good. Still nair and tornado are ****. I can see 65:35, but 70:30 seems a lil much for me. Granted I don't play many high level luigis

 

[hippiedude92]

how does Falcon camp Luigi???

all he can rely is on baiting/misspaced aerials/doing a laggy move that's all

 

[Acedude55]

You'll **** us if we stop up-air and u-tilting at any moment. Using a running up-smash is pretty much a good thing in this matchup, for me at least. Beware, falcon will camp ****ing hard.

35-65/40-60 luigis favor.

Edit: Im lazy, I don't type long stuff. At least not anymore.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

so it seems most people say its either 65-35 Luigi or 70-30.

This matchup discussion will end on the 1st and then the next character will be brought up

 

[Suspect]

how does Falcon camp Luigi???

id like to know the answer as well

 

[Acedude55]

what do you mean how does falcon camp luigi? I might as well explain it here myself

It's basically what he relies on against luigi, since, luigi is like a wall of prioric blasphemy.

1. He has the 2nd fastest running* speed in the game.
2. he has great aerial speed/movement
3. his up-air is fast enough to allow him to space out the distance and give luigi trouble just getting to him
since he isn't exactly the fastest around. He can fireball yea yeah, but falcons mobility in the air, and his weight allow him to pretty much get around those easily. Not SO easy, though.
Luigi has his killer aerials, and quite possibly with those, might force an approach if you move closer and closer.
Falcons up-tilt is what he'll be baiting on in this matchup, works pretty great. as long as he camps and plays the patient game, gets in a couple quick hits, it becomes much easier.

Also...30-70 in Luigis favor is too much, guys. Thats like...pikachu

 

[Suspect]

Once again, how does falcon camp a luigi? Luigi has a projectile if he ever "had trouble getting in"

Im so tired of the word camp...so tired of smash..

 

[Acedude55]

Powersheild, yay. Luigis fireball doesn't exactly have the best range either.

I'll give you that, though. He has a projectile. cool. That doesn't mean he can't camp him even half ***** succesfully. Like I said in my above post, enough weight and mobility to get passed those. But wait, Luigi will be right there when we get passed them. Up-tilt. That move goes even with alot of Luigis moveset. Great hitbox. It isn't even as laggy as its made out to be.

edit: Or, if you're really tired of the word camp, we can just call it running away like a little *****, Hit & run, anything along those lines really. Your call

 

[Suspect]

Falcon players will say anything to get some credit

 

[Acedude55]

urkewl, bro

 

[Thebest1pj]

umm everyone in this game can camp just becuase you dont have a projectile doesnt mean you cant camp take marth he can camp with fair get with it guys

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

umm everyone in this game can camp just becuase you dont have a projectile doesnt mean you cant camp take marth he can camp with fair get with it guys

There is a big difference between Falcon and Marth (Lol F-air)
Marth has a long sword, Falcon doesn't.

Spoiler

Except for his middle leg...Wut

 

[A2ZOMG]

As I said, Falcon will try to camp you with his run speed. And he CAN do that, and it's kinda dumb, especially when Luigi slides away 9000 miles when his shield is hit.

Generally speaking, Luigi's movepool, edgeguarding, and recovery are just BETTER. He deals damage a lot faster, more consistently, and he scores KOs earlier, ON TOP OF the fact that Falcon's recovery just fails a lot and is easy to hit out of.

 

[lordhelmet]

Once again, how does falcon camp a luigi? Luigi has a projectile if he ever "had trouble getting in"

Im so tired of the word camp...so tired of smash..

You're thinking of 'forcing an approach'

 

[CR4SH]

Stand still and jab. What's falcon got?

 

[Acedude55]

Go to page 5, crash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Stand still and jab. What's falcon got?

He can autocancel D-air above your head.

 

[CR4SH]

So falcon is going to JUMP AT LUIGI? Which suicidal falcon is this?

I'd love to see him in my bracket.