[Competitive Discussion] Let's learn together

[Mr Moosebones]

Could work really well vs people who know the matchup well and know how to keep track of your pikmin. Seems tricky but it doesn't seem like something that's too difficult to actually pull off consistently with adequate practice. Really cool find.

 

[Flawlessh]

You can also pluck Pikmin while this is active allowing you to really throw your opponent off.

i only watched the timestamp parts so i may have missed it, but what happens when u pluck a pikmin while it has the pocket pikmin active?

Does the invisible one disappear?
does the new pikmin disappear?
Do you get 4 pikmin?

 

[Myran]

i only watched the timestamp parts so i may have missed it, but what happens when u pluck a pikmin while it has the pocket pikmin active?

Does the invisible one disappear?
does the new pikmin disappear?
Do you get 4 pikmin?

No, the invisible Pikmin still counts as being in your line so if you have 2 other ones plucked you can't pluck anymore. If you have only the invisible one or 2 Pikmin you can still pluck. It doesn't cancel the Pocket Pikmin either.

 

[Dalxp26]

I found the best way to cancel your landing animation from Up B would be throwing a smash attack right when the pikmins land on stage. If you wait till Olimar lands you'll get the normal landing Up B lag and if you do it before the pikmins land on the ground an aerial comes out. Just a visual cue.

 

[Flawlessh]

I found the best way to cancel your landing animation from Up B would be throwing a smash attack right when the pikmins land on stage. If you wait till Olimar lands you'll get the normal landing Up B lag and if you do it before the pikmins land on the ground an aerial comes out. Just a visual cue.

best way to land from an up-b is fast fall nair.

 

[Dalxp26]

best way to land from an up-b is fast fall nair.

Its in regards to cancelling the Up B landing animation I feel both nair and smash attacks are great options. Both cover different options. Plus, like Myran said you can slide into a smash attack from using Up B something I dont think you can do with nair.

 

[Myran]

best way to land from an up-b is fast fall nair.

There are scenarios where a nair is unsafe. Canceling with a smash is a nice mix-up for the times where you do slide into the ground or can safely.

 

[Dalxp26]

So I was working more on the Up B cancelling landing lag with a smash attack and I noticed Olimar can only Forward smash in front of him after the pikmins touch the ground. He cannot do the forward smash facing away from him.

Also just curious, how situational is the run pivot jump cancel up smash and how is it different from regular running into up smash or run into jump cancel up smash?

 

[Myran]

So I was working more on the Up B cancelling landing lag with a smash attack and I noticed Olimar can only Forward smash in front of him after the pikmins touch the ground. He cannot do the forward smash facing away from him.

Also just curious, how situational is the run pivot jump cancel up smash and how is it different from regular running into up smash or run into jump cancel up smash?

If your looking to do an fsmash behind you your best bet is to do an aerial and cancel it within the first 2 frames so you can act freely. As for Pivot JC upsmash it has it's uses I'd say, because the hitbox is so much larger in the front it could definitely be useful. There have been a few times where I should have done it, but messed up the input and got no punish.

 

[Dalxp26]

If your looking to do an fsmash behind you your best bet is to do an aerial and cancel it within the first 2 frames so you can act freely. As for Pivot JC upsmash it has it's uses I'd say, because the hitbox is so much larger in the front it could definitely be useful. There have been a few times where I should have done it, but messed up the input and got no punish.

Cancelling an aerial is just doing an aerial right before you land to avoid any type of landing lag correct? So in other words when landing while using the Up B just do an aerial and then quickly fsmash behind Olimar?

 

[Myran]

Cancelling an aerial is just doing an aerial right before you land to avoid any type of landing lag correct? So in other words when landing while using the Up B just do an aerial and then quickly fsmash behind Olimar?

I'm assuming that's how it would work. I haven't really toyed around with it. All aerials cancel if you land within the first 2 frames. I know Ebony Sniper said more about it, but idk his Smashboards tag or I'd tag him.

 

[Angbad]

Alright guys so I'm back with a new AT, and I've named it the Pocket Pikmin. So what it does is it makes one the first Pikmin in your lineup invisible while keeping it active. It is canceled when you use any smash or aerial, as well as side-b, up-b and grab. While the Pikmin is hidden you can use all other moves I have listed without cancelling this.

Now for the down side, it is semi-situational and pretty difficult to perform consistently. To have it happen you must drop from the ledge right as a Pikmin (Usually one running back to you from on stage) jumps into your lineup and disappears as all Pikmin do while Olimar is on the ledge. I'm assuming this happens, because right as you drop from the ledge the Pikmin is storing itself on the ledge where it should be, and it gets glitched out. You'll notice if you up-b with this active a Pikmin will fly super fast from the ledge and into the up-b. I'm not sure of the exact timing window, but it seems no more than a few frames at most. You can do it with all colors, and I feel it could be a valuable tool in throwing your opponent off since they will think you have a different Pikmin in front since the cursor moves into your next Pikmin. Even if you whistle and the cursor bounces between the 2 you have active the hidden one will always act for the next attack. You can also pluck Pikmin while this is active allowing you to really throw your opponent off.

Below I have a video showing how it is performed. It is recorded off my phone so just try to ignore the mehh quality, and also sorry about the shaking I have pretty unsteady hands. It's about a 5 minute video, because I mess it up quite a few times so I'll include time stamps to show the 4 times I get it. One last note, I find it most difficult to do with purples, but they could just have a different timing.

Time stamps
0:18
0:47
3:33
4:19

P.S. I also found out you can cancel the landing animation with your up-b with a smash if you do it right as Olimar slides into the ground. So there's that for you guys as well.

If you charge a smash does it look like you have no pikmin or do you pull the invisible pikmin out?

 

[Myran]

If you charge a smash does it look like you have no pikmin or do you pull the invisible pikmin out?

It makes is visible while charging.

 

[Angbad]

It makes is visible while charging.

Dammit that would have been literally the greatest cheese. I guess a purple up air when it seems like you have no pikmin could work, but it's harder to pull off than getting someone to come punish a charging smash with no pikmin.

And also I think we win the ZSS, Pika, and diddy MUs.

I think we lose to Yoshi, mario, Sheik(eh), and metaknight(if they know the mu).

All the other top tiers I think are even or 55/45 or 45/55

 

[Blue Banana]

I feel like the Pikachu matchup is even or a slight disadvantage for Olimar. Even though I think Oli can wall out Pikachu efficiently enough that it can't start pressuring him in close range, once it gets in it's going to be difficult for Oli to get him out, and he has Quick Attack to close the distance quickly in various directions.

I only played a decent Pika once online, so I'm not used to the MU yet. Why do you think the MU is in Oli's advantage?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

The thing is that QA (and QAC by extention) isn't as safe as everyone seems to think it is. It actually drastically increases the size of pikachu's hurtbox. If you can predict the movement you can get some really easy punishes.

I'm guessing Angbad thinks its a good mu because 90% of pikas attacks have an electric component to them, making yellow pikmin invaluable. I don't have a ton of experience in this mu though.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

I feel like the Pikachu matchup is even or a slight disadvantage for Olimar. Even though I think Oli can wall out Pikachu efficiently enough that it can't start pressuring him in close range, once it gets in it's going to be difficult for Oli to get him out, and he has Quick Attack to close the distance quickly in various directions.

I only played a decent Pika once online, so I'm not used to the MU yet. Why do you think the MU is in Oli's advantage?

One of the big things we can do to punish pikachu sorta like the sonic matchup is having a pikmin latched onto him, especially when he uses a fair and a pikmin is latched it lags them alot and we can go in and punish,somewhere way back when I think Myran said another big thing to do is "Side B camp power shield fsmash can stop some of his quick attack approaches, yellow pikmin stop his thunderjolts".I read somewhere that its possible for perfectly spaced nair/jab/tils can beat out his quick attack , but I havent tested it myself to prove this theory but if it true, then it would be pretty nice, I guess lol. Using fsmash in general makes it so that pikachu can approach you from in front of you with his quick attack. His pika thunder jolts are actually like mario's fireballs, they have punishable startup lag on it so it's not that good like it was in brawl imo. Also to keep in mind, Esam wrote himself for fighting against pikachu,
"When Pikachu grabs you at high %, you are always supposed to DI away to avoid a thunder follow-up. U-throw you can technically DI either way to avoid immediate thunder spike -> Blue Thunder death combo, but for D-throw you MUST DI forward. Since you can’t really mash, Pikachu can get a lot of damage through Pummels and throw for stage positioning ANYWAY, but PLEASE if you react to the grab, DI forward. "

The most experience I've personally gotten from the pikachu matchup is from Anther's ladder so I personally feel like its 50/50 as Pikachu has very good combo potential but its still hard for him to actually get in, but getting out once he gets in, I thing its best to mix up our recovery because facing a good edgeguarding pikachu is difficult , he wins the air game, we win the ground game.

 

[Myran]

I've played Esam a few times, it's like 50/50 imo.

 

[Angbad]

I just feel like Pikachu can only get in with quick attack which makes it really hard for him.

 

[Myran]

I just feel like Pikachu can only get in with quick attack which makes it really hard for him.

If there is Pikmin on Pikachu and he QAs he will slide away. I believe it has to be certain colors, I haven't test it to thoroughly for a definitive answer on which. By slide I mean when the Pikachu lands from the QA they slide away.

 

[koken]

Can someone do a video or send me a link showing how to cancel the UpB thing?

 

[Alph Aran]

Did anyone here bother learning Olimar & Pikmin in Brawl? I tried to, but I gave up and decided I'm just content with winging it as him. This game, though. The difficulty for Olimar now has really made it easier and important for me to know what he needs to do in order to win. (No one deserves to complain if they lose to Olimar this time around.)

Alright, be careful when grabbing ledges with Pikmin with you. A Robin player managed to meteor smash me(Don't worry, still won) while I just grabbed the ledge by using the Levin Sword to hit a Pikmin and the hitlag caused me to get hit by it as well. Basically, watch out for "electric" meteor smash moves when the Pikmin are with you. The hitlag, guys.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Can someone do a video or send me a link showing how to cancel the UpB thing?

Yo credits to nom but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjTUfC3qay0&feature=youtu.be
actually jk this isn't what myran was talking about lol my bad , but its another tech that nom discovered which is situational at best but,

[7/15/2015 9:39:45 PM] Nom: this tech seems interesting for landing on platforms
[7/15/2015 9:41:11 PM] Nom: i also found sometihing odd that happens, though i dont think it'll be all the useful
[7/15/2015 9:41:52 PM] Nom: but during your up b, if you're near the ground or a platform and you press down for just a moment, you can drop off some of your pikmin and then shoot off without them weighing you down

 

[Myran]

Yo credits to nom but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjTUfC3qay0&feature=youtu.be
actually jk this isn't what myran was talking about lol my bad , but its another tech that nom discovered which is situational at best but,

I've known about that for months. Did I never share it? LMAO

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

I've known about that for months. Did I never share it? LMAO

LOL guess not Im always on these boards If u did I prolly wouldn't have missed it

 

[Myran]

LOL guess not Im always on these boards If u did I prolly wouldn't have missed it

Hmm, this is like the third time now I've found something small like this and not posted it here haha. My b, I'll try to do it more often. Also I'm more likely to post stuff like that in the skype group since it's easier.

 

[koken]

Hmm, this is like the third time now I've found something small like this and not posted it here haha. My b, I'll try to do it more often. Also I'm more likely to post stuff like that in the skype group since it's easier.

Nooo T_T ... post it here too, I don't use skype jajaja lol .

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Speaking of, @ Myran would it be possible to get added to the skype group? ID is nash.bussieres

 

[ChemX]

Yeah @ Myran add us to the Skype Group :^)

 

[Myran]

Yeah @ Myran add us to the Skype Group :^)

You don't play Olimar.

 

[ChemX]

You don't play Olimar.

No but I date you so I qualify by association.

 

[Dalxp26]

Yo credits to nom but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjTUfC3qay0&feature=youtu.be
actually jk this isn't what myran was talking about lol my bad , but its another tech that nom discovered which is situational at best but,

Im not sure if it was posted but playing Olimar long enough I kinda figured that out a bit lol

But the second part of the video where "Olimar" fsmash... to an extent that is what Myran is talking about. "Olimar went through the platform but before he touch the platform with his feet the pikmin landed on the platform and at that very moment you can fsmash. NOTE: The pikmin have to be on the ground when olimar is still off the ground to perform the fsmash inorder to cancel the landing lag. Its the same scenario when Olimar Up Bs and slide across the stage

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Im not sure if it was posted but playing Olimar long enough I kinda figured that out a bit lol

But the second part of the video where "Olimar" fsmash... to an extent that is what Myran is talking about. "Olimar went through the platform but before he touch the platform with his feet the pikmin landed on the platform and at that very moment you can fsmash. NOTE: The pikmin have to be on the ground when olimar is still off the ground to perform the fsmash inorder to cancel the landing lag. Its the same scenario when Olimar Up Bs and slide across the stage

I am quite sure in the right scenario's we accidently do techs that we aren't aware of but do it anyway until people find an actual application on it then it is made fully aware of on the boards,otherwise its either overlooked or something of that nature.

Other than that ,yeah I was in a preoccupied with something else before actually looking throughout the entire video, thats my bad on my part. But ur right on that part of info u posted I believe. @ Dalxp26 .

 

[Blue Banana]

Is anyone messing around with Dthrow to Bair in Training mode? I've been trying out red Dthrow to purple Bair, and it can KO some middleweights in the 100s. It can register as a true combo, but I'm having a lot trouble executing it consistently. I'm also not sure if it's practical in an actual match, given that the opponent can just DI away from you.

 

[Angbad]

Is anyone messing around with Dthrow to Bair in Training mode? I've been trying out red Dthrow to purple Bair, and it can KO some middleweights in the 100s. It can register as a true combo, but I'm having a lot trouble executing it consistently. I'm also not sure if it's practical in an actual match, given that the opponent can just DI away from you.

hmm when would you do this instead of just up air?

 

[Blue Banana]

hmm when would you do this instead of just up air?

It could be used if you're opponent is near the edge of the stage. It KOs a little earlier than purple Uair on a Omega stage, though this doesn't take DI into account.

 

[Angbad]

It could be used if you're opponent is near the edge of the stage. It KOs a little earlier than purple Uair on a Omega stage, though this doesn't take DI into account.

huh i'll check it out thanks

 

[Alph Aran]

Ah, those moments when Meteor Smash attacks hit your Pikmin as you try to get up from the ledge and they create hitlag, causing the Meteor Smash attacks to outlast your invincibility frames, therefore, you plummet down.

Does anyone else seem to lose to Rage-buffed heavyweight characters frequently? I can get a huge percent lead, but that only puts me in the KO range with my heavyweight opponents. Any idea how I can work to get past this obstacle? Oh how baffling that I get KO'ed below 80% more times than rarely.

 

[koken]

2 things guys.

1. If you aim at the exact moment at the ledge, you can Dair Sheik's Up B and destroy him.
2. Nair trades against Sheik's Nair. It cancels both moves.

If you already knew this, great.
If you know more things like this, please share.

 

[Boomuki]

Something little and I think known by many, but still worth mentioning: landing nair into uptilt does not work on chars like Luigi, mario or yoshi, because their nair comes out on frame 3, beating or at least trading with olimars uptilt.