Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Arthur97]

Would like to point out that I'm not even a Pikachu shill. Currently I think Pikachu is overrated and is just outside of top 5 rather then top 3 like everyone says. I also think Wario is fairly strong, but some top players such as Tweek do not believe in the character atm and actually place him much lower then what ESAM does and Dabuz also didn't put him in top tier recently despite historically having very strong opinions on Wario which means ESAM is actually more on the optimistic side here. If anything, a complaint about ESAM's list should be a complaint about tier lists in general and opinions on top players overall.

It's less #ESAMOpinions and more every player having takes that don't entirely agree with how the meta is going nowadays. Also ESAM says in the Twitch VOD that his opinions on results are that "Results do matter somewhat but the game is really well balanced so almost every character in the game has or can have good results".

Kinda ironic then that his proclaimed best doesn't have that great of results. Like, not even top 30.

I do think it's too soon to herald Wario as the best thing ever, but I am generally slow to assume a fighter is extremely busted and the like taking more of a wait and see approach.

In the end though, I think tiers aren't that important, or rather, viable in this game. It's balanced enough it's not obvious where the divides should be, and with dedication and skill, you can make just about any one of them work, which is amazing. Now if only they would stop being a source of clickbait revenue for content creators.

 

[PK Gaming]

Would like to point out that I'm not even a Pikachu shill. Currently I think Pikachu is overrated and is just outside of top 5 rather then top 3 like everyone says. I also think Wario is fairly strong, but some top players such as Tweek do not believe in the character atm and actually place him much lower then what ESAM does and Dabuz also didn't put him in top tier recently despite historically having very strong opinions on Wario which means ESAM is actually more on the optimistic side here. If anything, a complaint about ESAM's list should be a complaint about tier lists in general and opinions on top players overall.

It's less #ESAMOpinions and more every player having takes that don't entirely agree with how the meta is going nowadays. Also ESAM says in the Twitch VOD that his opinions on results are that "Results do matter somewhat but the game is really well balanced so almost every character in the game has or can have good results".

Tweek's opinion on Wario can be outright discarded imo

He's always had a weird complex towards the character (something he's more or less admitted to) and spent a lot of time downplaying him before Gluto started doing work with the character post nerf. This isn't me going "lol Tweek" but I think even he'd admit that he's gone through a lot with the character, with his constant attempts to use him, drop him, etc before settling on Diddy Kong.

I definitely get where you're coming from, but I personally think Smash Ultimate being super well-balanced is a bit too optimistic. It blows most fighting games out of the water, but there are tons of lopsided matchups, gatekeeper characters, and the sheer power of some top tiers are difficult for a lot of characters to deal with. Like everyone sees Byleth as this underdog when he's got one of the most broken Up Bs in Smash history and crutch nair he can lean on for neutral. A lot of the characters who can compete in tournaments have 1 or 2 scumbag move options that set them apart from the rest.

 

[Akai kage]

People really have double standards. When characters like peach don't get results anymore they gets called overrated and not meta. When joker doesn't get results he is still a top 2 character somehow. I know that the magnitude of the results for joker is higher but both should count for something

 

[Akai kage]

To avoid confusion I absolutely agree with joker being top 2, maybe even top 1

 

[PK Gaming]

To avoid confusion I absolutely agree with joker being top 2, maybe even top 1

I don't, haha

When the best player in the world drops a character, that should be a sign. And yet people still cling to Joker being #1 because 2019 Mkleo Joker dominance brings people comfort for a variety of reasons. But the meta (and mkleo) has moved on from then. And we should too.

Joker is an incredible, flexible character but also deeply punishing to play and very mentally taxing at the highest levels of play. There are very real drawbacks to the character that were underrated because of Mkleo's dominance.

 

[BitBitio]

I don't, haha

When the best player in the world drops a character, that should be a sign. And yet people still cling to Joker being #1 because 2019 Mkleo Joker dominance brings people comfort for a variety of reasons. But the meta (and mkleo) has moved on from then. And we should too.

Joker is an incredible, flexible character but also deeply punishing to play and very mentally taxing at the highest levels of play. There are very real drawbacks to the character that were underrated because of Mkleo's dominance.

for what it’s worth MkLeo is picking Joker up again so we’ll likely see a new influx of results. sounds like Leo is building a character roster (Byleth/Joker/Corrin/Aegis/ROB?) more than focusing on one individual character anyway so I could see him doing Byleth for most of the tournament/Joker for Byleth’s rough MUs. should be interesting to see- it’ll probably make the top 2 Joker talk have some non-2019/Kagaribi 6 evidence.

 

[Arthur97]

for what it’s worth MkLeo is picking Joker up again so we’ll likely see a new influx of results. sounds like Leo is building a character roster (Byleth/Joker/Corrin/Aegis/ROB?) more than focusing on one individual character anyway so I could see him doing Byleth for most of the tournament/Joker for Byleth’s rough MUs. should be interesting to see- it’ll probably make the top 2 Joker talk have some non-2019/Kagaribi 6 evidence.

I'll believe it when I seen it. He really, really doesn't seem to want to use him anymore no matter how much he talks about it. Wouldn't be too surprised if he's also super annoyed with people wanting him to switch back.

 

[blackghost]

for ESAm list is just bad becuase people here are debating results vs thoery ( i fall on either side almost character by character) but at some point you have to out up or shut up. as such ROB CANNOT be below mii brawler.
Im a big fan of sometimes saying some belifs out loud just to see how insane they sound.
I participate in a bunch of competiive scenes from smash to yugioh to other fgc games. Its fascinating theory in card games is never accepted. IF you deck is high rolley (aka match up dependent) your deck is seen as a counter at best but not the best actual m consistency and results are king by far.

 

[NairWizard]

I think both sides have been pretty silly - the pure theorycraft and the anti-theorycraft, results-only side. What you should be looking at to get your thoughts on characters is the gameplay. Gameplay isn't theorycraft and it also isn't results--it's the current state, it's what's happening right in front of your eyes, now, and it's much more precise than either theorycraft or results. Evaluating gameplay one interaction at a time is the way to figure out which characters are good and which aren't.

Unfortunately not many people do this any more. The people who do, don't visit this forum, typically, because if they have the time to invest into this kind of analysis, they're probably on a podcast or coaching someone.

Can you explain why sparg0 drifts in during some f-airs and drifts away during others? Do you know all the possible timing mixups of Leo's n-air? No? Well, those seem to me to be a prerequisite for having any opinions on Cloud or Byleth's viability.

If you can't tell me exactly under what circumstances Pikachu should n-air and under what circumstances he should b-air, and what the counterplay is to each at different parts of the stage, well, how can you have any clue about where Pikachu is on a tier list?

Obviously doing enough of this to have an opinion on every character in the game takes too much time, and no one really has that kind of time (most of us would rather be playing the game or spectating without analyzing or doing other things outside of smash). So, generally, our thoughts on whole tier lists are kind of pointless. Let's focus on smaller pieces that we do know and understand, instead of knocking down the aggregated thoughts of others.

 

[PK Gaming]

I think both sides have been pretty silly - the pure theorycraft and the anti-theorycraft, results-only side. What you should be looking at to get your thoughts on characters is the gameplay. Gameplay isn't theorycraft and it also isn't results--it's the current state, it's what's happening right in front of your eyes, now, and it's much more precise than either theorycraft or results. Evaluating gameplay one interaction at a time is the way to figure out which characters are good and which aren't.

First off, that's a pretty misleading assessment of the current discussion happening right now. This isn't a "pure theorycraft vs anti-theorycraft" debate. Second, theory and practice complement each other. Gameplay comes with the territory when discussing high-level play... they're not mutually exclusive. On the other hand, SlppinJimmy24's youtube video dictating the top 10 best and worst moves in the game will date a lot faster than observable strategies in high-level matches, especially in a game as big as Ultimate.

We literally live in an age where top player insight is generally more valuable (and plentiful) than arguments on a forum. You're much better off learning from Evo winner Hotashi if you want to get good with Nagoriyuki in Guilty Gear Strive (who has multiple analysis videos) than two people arguing about how good or bad the character is on dustloop (are the dustloop forums even alive)

Can you explain why sparg0 drifts in during some f-airs and drifts away during others? Do you know all the possible timing mixups of Leo's n-air? No? Well, those seem to me to be a prerequisite for having any opinions on Cloud or Byleth's viability.

If you can't tell me exactly under what circumstances Pikachu should n-air and under what circumstances he should b-air, and what the counterplay is to each at different parts of the stage, well, how can you have any clue about where Pikachu is on a tier list?

This isn't an essay. Someone doesn't need qualifications for why they think x or y is a thing provided they use actual arguments to back up their points. Personally I think coming up with hard number placements for each character isn't feasible and ultimately a pointless waste of time (it also prevents you from getting bogged down in pointless arguments so its a win win).

My point has never been "I know where Pikachu belongs on the tier list!" it's "Pikachu being the single best character in the game is an increasingly untenable statement" as time goes by, and more evidence that proves the contrary keeps piling up (eSAM losing to matchups Pikachu supposedly has +2 on, almost always falling short of top 8, Pikachu's lack of real presence overseas, etc). There's literally nothing pointing in this character's favor, and yet it's Pikachu being top 3 is still sacrosanct on reddit, twitter and youtube. Doesn't that strike anyone else as bizarre? Especially when pushed by someone like eSAM who's consistently pushed the idea that Pikachu is broken for decades now across multiple smash games?

Obviously doing enough of this to have an opinion on every character in the game takes too much time, and no one really has that kind of time (most of us would rather be playing the game or spectating without analyzing or doing other things outside of smash). So, generally, our thoughts on whole tier lists are kind of pointless. Let's focus on smaller pieces that we do know and understand, instead of knocking down the aggregated thoughts of others.

People are free to do what they want, but I think Smash as a community has a very real problem with hivemind behavior and not expecting better from content creators who basically throw out vanity tier lists.

EDIT:

for ESAm list is just bad becuase people here are debating results vs thoery ( i fall on either side almost character by character) but at some point you have to out up or shut up. as such ROB CANNOT be below mii brawler.
Im a big fan of sometimes saying some belifs out loud just to see how insane they sound.
I participate in a bunch of competiive scenes from smash to yugioh to other fgc games. Its fascinating theory in card games is never accepted. IF you deck is high rolley (aka match up dependent) your deck is seen as a counter at best but not the best actual m consistency and results are king by far.

Literally every competitive game in existence (from Pokemon to Fighting games) values consistent results over hard theorycrafting. It's only in Smash where a character with frankly abysmal tournament results worldwide is a contender for best character in the game. It's unthinkable.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't, haha

When the best player in the world drops a character, that should be a sign. And yet people still cling to Joker being #1 because 2019 Mkleo Joker dominance brings people comfort for a variety of reasons. But the meta (and mkleo) has moved on from then. And we should too.

Joker is an incredible, flexible character but also deeply punishing to play and very mentally taxing at the highest levels of play. There are very real drawbacks to the character that were underrated because of Mkleo's dominance.

This!! MKLeo dropping Joker for Byleth should've opened peoples eyes sooner. Yet Joker is considered one of the best characters by most, and Byleth a High Tier, with hesitation even because most would rather place them in Mid Tier instead.

It's a complete joke. Same with Pikachu being the best character in the game. It's not to be taken seriously if the results don't back this up.

And if it's purely about matchups, what's up with Diddy not being higher? That's my biggest gripe with the Esam tier list. Diddy below characters he consistently beats. He got a good matchup vs Joker, Palutena, Aegis, ZSS and most swordies who are not Cloud or Roy.

To me Top 5 seems well established by now. It should be something like Aegis > Roy = ROB > Palutena = Wolf. I would even put Diddy, Cloud and Byleth above Pikachu and Joker at this point.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

This!! MKLeo dropping Joker for Byleth should've opened peoples eyes sooner. Yet Joker is considered one of the best characters by most, and Byleth a High Tier, with hesitation even because most would rather place them in Mid Tier instead.

It's a complete joke. Same with Pikachu being the best character in the game. It's not to be taken seriously if the results don't back this up.

And if it's purely about matchups, what's up with Diddy not being higher? That's my biggest gripe with the Esam tier list. Diddy below characters he consistently beats. He got a good matchup vs Joker, Palutena, Aegis, ZSS and most swordies who are not Cloud or Roy.

To me Top 5 seems well established by now. It should be something like Aegis > Roy = ROB > Palutena = Wolf. I would even put Diddy, Cloud and Byleth above Pikachu and Joker at this point.

Couple of things. Leo has said himself that he dropped Joker because he doesn't find Joker as fun to play anymore compared to Byleth, and Byleth fits the type of characters he plays much better and is a lot like . Leo himself says Joker is top 3 and Byleth is top 20-top 25 and just because Leo no longer plays Joker for that specific reason, doesn't mean Joker is any worse then he was before outside of the nerfs that were slaps on the wrist. I also think going off of only results and nothing else is a bit outlandish if you take it too far. I'd say results are important to the point where if a character is getting good results they do get bumped on the tier list, but this is also a game with 80 characters and some of those characters may not be used by many players but be considered potentially strong. is a brilliant example of this, Kome is considered top 20 in the world, with very high peaks at Japanese tournaments, but otherwise there's no other good Shulk players. This isn't because Shulk is not top tier, but because his metagame is not particularly developed currently and isn't being used by top players outside of Kome. 's results were mediocre until Sparg0 became top 2 in the world and used him over Aegis.

Your opinion very much so seems to revolve around who the best players are currently playing, when Leo, Sparg0 and Tweek have shown themselves to being able to pick up like 75% of the roster and get good results with them. Tweek's Banjo that he played for like 2 weeks at most still has the best peak results out of any Banjo player, with getting top 8 at Glitch 7. But no one thinks Banjo is strong, in fact it's quite the opposite, he's considered bad in several areas namely his poor disadvantage state, lack of air mobility and bad kill power.

There's also instances like Roy, who was already a very popular character in Melee and Smash 4 for the casual audience due to his attempted aggressive playstyle, but he was pretty bad in those games. They buffed him up significantly, and he's also incredibly easy relative to other characters. Of course an already loved character who's now finally top tier and is easy to play will get good results. I'd argue all of the top 5 on OrionStats are very fundamental based characters that are easy to pick up at high level which means they possess a higher playerbase. This doesn't mean characters such as Roy and ROB are top 3, but it does mean they're the most likely characters you'll run into in a bracket, not necessarily the biggest threats in the bracket.

I really do think the best way to view the game is observing what the best players of each do with the character to get their character good results, rather then use the results as numbers on a chart and just go "alright here are the best characters".

 

[Arthur97]

To be fair, I'm not sure he dropped Joker because he thought his time was past, but rather because he didn't like playing him and liked his new main much better at least in playstyle. Not sure if he's a TH fan or not. Still, Joker isn't really repping top fighter in the game results anymore, but at the same time, I'm not sure anyone is.

 

[NairWizard]

This isn't an essay. Someone doesn't need qualifications for why they think x or y is a thing provided they use actual arguments to back up their points.

sure, that’s my point. Where’s the argument backing anything that’s been said in the past few pages of discussion? Calling out a tier list is fine and pointing out that Pikachu doesn’t have top 3 results is fine, but we’re here for competitive analysis, and that part is missing.

As a reader of this forum, I’d like to hear your thoughts about what counterplay is possible to a well played and optimized Pikachu, rather than your thoughts about ESAM’s opinions. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Arthur97]

Couple of things. Leo has said himself that he dropped Joker because he doesn't find Joker as fun to play anymore compared to Byleth, and Byleth fits the type of characters he plays much better and is a lot like . Leo himself says Joker is top 3 and Byleth is top 20-top 25 and just because Leo no longer plays Joker for that specific reason, doesn't mean Joker is any worse then he was before outside of the nerfs that were slaps on the wrist. I also think going off of only results and nothing else is a bit outlandish if you take it too far. I'd say results are important to the point where if a character is getting good results they do get bumped on the tier list, but this is also a game with 80 characters and some of those characters may not be used by many players but be considered potentially strong. is a brilliant example of this, Kome is considered top 20 in the world, with very high peaks at Japanese tournaments, but otherwise there's no other good Shulk players. This isn't because Shulk is not top tier, but because his metagame is not particularly developed currently and isn't being used by top players outside of Kome. 's results were mediocre until Sparg0 became top 2 in the world and used him over Aegis.

Your opinion very much so seems to revolve around who the best players are currently playing, when Leo, Sparg0 and Tweek have shown themselves to being able to pick up like 75% of the roster and get good results with them. Tweek's Banjo that he played for like 2 weeks at most still has the best peak results out of any Banjo player, with getting top 8 at Glitch 7. But no one thinks Banjo is strong, in fact it's quite the opposite, he's considered bad in several areas namely his poor disadvantage state, lack of air mobility and bad kill power.

There's also instances like Roy, who was already a very popular character in Melee and Smash 4 for the casual audience due to his attempted aggressive playstyle, but he was pretty bad in those games. They buffed him up significantly, and he's also incredibly easy relative to other characters. Of course an already loved character who's now finally top tier and is easy to play will get good results. I'd argue all of the top 5 on OrionStats are very fundamental based characters that are easy to pick up at high level which means they possess a higher playerbase. This doesn't mean characters such as Roy and ROB are top 3, but it does mean they're the most likely characters you'll run into in a bracket, not necessarily the biggest threats in the bracket.

I really do think the best way to view the game is observing what the best players of each do with the character to get their character good results, rather then use the results as numbers on a chart and just go "alright here are the best characters".

On the counter, can you really say Shulk is a top tier? This is a point I think results should be used to help: does reality match up with the theory? If yes, then we may have a top tier. If no, then there's a decent chance we don't. Theory crafting should be treated as just that, a theory, but it should always, always be subject to change. Pikachu, does not have the evidence to back up the theory, even with a high level player, so you can probably disregard Pikachu being top tier. Joker did have the data, but it is older so he's still up there at least unless the meta game leaves him behind. At what point do you have to consider the meta game has shifted unfavorably?

This also goes the other way. Theory can have a negative impression and it can be really hard to overcome that in a lot of players' eyes. Ridley is a mid tier example there. Perceived as low tier, but had consistent mid tier results. At what point do you consider that the data has proven you wrong and reevaluate your theories?

 

[PK Gaming]

sure, that’s my point. Where’s the argument backing anything that’s been said in the past few pages of discussion? Calling out a tier list is fine and pointing out that Pikachu doesn’t have top 3 results is fine, but we’re here for competitive analysis, and that part is missing.

As a reader of this forum, I’d like to hear your thoughts about what counterplay is possible to a well played and optimized Pikachu, rather than your thoughts about ESAM’s opinions. Does that make sense to you?

A well played and optimized Pika is sounding incredibly similar to "a skilled Roy can defeat any opponent" but I get your point.

If you want counterplay, watch literally any player actually employing Smash DI to get out of some of his combos.

It's telling that people rarely employ said counterplay and the character still doesn't do that at high level play despite that.

Pikachu's light weight, poor range, middling on-stage KO potential and technical combos are all things that hold it back from absolutely dominating this game. Not to mention having to deal with the character jank present in the game.

Pikachu just isn't that good at bracket (something a lot of players underrate imo), hence why top Pikachu players will lose to characters like Falcon players despite ostensibly hard countering them.

I still think the character is strong and is borderline anti-meta in how it can deal with some top tier characters, but it's far from dominant.

 

[superjm]

My personal pet theory on Pikachu's meta is that Pichu ruined everything. Pichu became the preferred pick in the early stages of the game at exactly the point when a character with such overwhelming-on-its-face tools like Pikachu should have been the one dominating early brackets instead. So the character started the game with a more-or-less stagnant meta outside of ESAM labbing like a maniac.

But it gets worse. Pichu ended up falling off because of a combination of getting the heavy nerf bat and very aggressive counterplay developing to deal with him, but Pichu falling off didn't actually end up helping Pikachu at all. This is because, and here's the dirty little secret, Pichu counterplay is also largely Pikachu counterplay. So we end up in a situation where the counterplay meta for Pikachu is already completely developed before Pikachu players ever had a chance to get off the ground. And it turns out prospective Pikachu players aren't particularly interested in putting in the work to overcome this hump (ESAM himself even says he "plays Pikachu wrong", so that's no help), not when there's 80 other characters to choose from.

As a side note, I do still think Pikachu has the tools to be a top 1 character, but the devil's in the details. Basically, the way I see it, an "optimal Pikachu" would be the most aggressively campy, grindy, and soul-crushing character around. Just play 100% defense, never ever get in your opponent's range, spam t-jolts all the time, reset into neutral every chance you get with your safe aerials and/or quick attack, and take zero risks with a lead. Basically a more extreme version of the "wi-fi Sonic." Of course, I also think that we'll never actually see this version of the character ever because it's absolutely no fun for anyone involved and nobody in the world wants to be "that guy", not even ESAM.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for 4o4 Smash Night - MomoCon Kickoff

1. Sonix
2. Riddles
3. Jake
4. Zomba
5. Capitancito
5. Ray
7. Teaser
7. iGreg!
9. JMafia
9. omega
9. SHADIC
9. Player-1
13. Peabnut
13. Jahzz0
13. Zie
13. PkChris
17. Goblin
17. Kailen
17. JW
17. Grape
17. Zaheer
17. Sean
17. Peanut
17. Vivid

Also results for some weekly in Japan

スマパ！#53 の結果です！
TV｜ProtoBanhamさん(@ProtoBanhamSSBU )優勝おめでとうございます！

次回のスマパ！は6/7(火)の予定です、ぜひご参加ください！ pic.twitter.com/HfbxiQqJnd

— スマパ！平日スマブラ大会 (@WSPsmapa) May 27, 2022

 

[Akai kage]

To me Top 5 seems well established by now. It should be something like Aegis > Roy = ROB > Palutena = Wolf. I would even put Diddy, Cloud and Byleth above Pikachu and Joker at this point.

You really just took the orion stats top 5, put aegis at the top and called it a day. This says a lot about this forum

 

[Akai kage]

You really just took the orion stats top 5, put aegis at the top and called it a day. This says a lot about this forum

This came off a bit ruder than I wanted, but still, a lot of the time discussions just boil down to circlejerks

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

This came off a bit ruder than I wanted, but still, a lot of the time discussions just boil down to circlejerks

PSA, there's an edit button. Use that as an addition to your comment rather then making another one and responding to yourself.

 

[Sucumbio]

This came off a bit ruder than I wanted, but still, a lot of the time discussions just boil down to circlejerks

But that's the appeal to all echo chambers and why some posters apply this more broadly in criticism of discussion places.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Top 8 for MomoCon 2022

Winners Side
Light vs Sonix
Maister vs Dabuz

Losers Side

DDee (Lost to Light) vs Riddles (Lost to Light)
MuteAce (Lost to Sonix) vs Tweek (Lost to Maister)

 

[Rran]

Light has been playing out of his gd mind this tournament...

 

[Frihetsanka]

This!! MKLeo dropping Joker for Byleth should've opened peoples eyes sooner. Yet Joker is considered one of the best characters by most, and Byleth a High Tier, with hesitation even because most would rather place them in Mid Tier instead.

He also dropped Aegis for Corrin. I suspect MkLeo doesn't pick characters strictly based on where they land in a tier list. He probably prefers Corrin because he finds her more fun, not because she's better than Aegis.

Who is the best character, anyways? Joker? But Leo dropped him. Aegis? But Leo and Sparg0 (mostly) dropped them. Pikachu? Lack of results. Wolf? Palutena? Who is?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Light has been playing out of his gd mind this tournament...

I'm thinking Fox is top 10 atm. We have 3 really good Fox players in Light, Paseriman and Lui$ (co-main but you get the point), and they all have gotten really good results in 2022. Light is also looking like a top 4 player currently alongside MkLeo, Sparg0 and Glutonny. He has a fantastic neutral game and advantage state, so really Fox's only real weaknesses are his horizontal disadvantage, poor recovery and being light.

Outside of that and onto the best runs of the tournament, I think DDee has had the strongest Cinderella run since Quidd's LMBM 2022 run. He fell to losers at 33rd, and has picked up wins on Sonido, Jake, Dark Wizzy, Lui$ and Goblin, with the last two players being top 30 minimum. He's also the sole Georgia player in top 8, with Kola, Fatality and Wrath all falling below him. To make top 8 at your first major, being in the same group as several top 10-top 15 NA players is just incredible.

 

[F4lcoMain]

Results for 4o4 Smash Night - MomoCon Kickoff

1. Sonix
2. Riddles
3. Jake
4. Zomba
5. Capitancito
5. Ray
7. Teaser
7. iGreg!
9. JMafia
9. omega
9. SHADIC
9. Player-1
13. Peabnut
13. Jahzz0
13. Zie
13. PkChris
17. Goblin
17. Kailen
17. JW
17. Grape
17. Zaheer
17. Sean
17. Peanut
17. Vivid

Also results for some weekly in Japan

スマパ！#53 の結果です！
TV｜ProtoBanhamさん(@ProtoBanhamSSBU )優勝おめでとうございます！

次回のスマパ！は6/7(火)の予定です、ぜひご参加ください！ pic.twitter.com/HfbxiQqJnd

— スマパ！平日スマブラ大会 (@WSPsmapa) May 27, 2022

Glad to see Zomba believes the Falco agenda too.

 

[The_Bookworm]

MomoCon 2022

1st: Light
2nd: Dabuz
3rd: Maister
4th: Tweek
5th: Sonix
5th: DDee
7th: MuteAce
7th: Riddles

Spoiler: Top 24

9th: Goblin
9th: Kola
9th: Scend
9th: Ling

13th: Fatality
13th: Lui$
13th: yonni
13th: Myran

17th: Zomba
17th: ApolloKage
17th: ScAtt
17th: Vendetta
17th: Wrath
17th: SHADIC
17th: Dark Wizzy
17th: JMafia

Spoiler: Top 48

25th: Cosmos
25th: Peabnut
25th: Jahzz0
25th: Jordan
25th: KirbyKid
25th: Jake
25th: Teaser
25th: Mugen

33rd: Mystearica
33rd: Anathema
33rd: Suarez
33rd: Vivid
33rd: Niko
33rd: Tachyon
33rd: Puppeh
33rd: Lima
33rd: Capitancito
33rd: Sonido
33rd: Synergy
33rd: SKITTLES!!
33rd: Toast
33rd: JW
33rd: Sinji
33rd: Peanut

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I have a strong feeling the big characters discussed for a few days will be , and .

Light looking unstoppable without having to fight Leo, Sparg0 or Glutonny and barely dropped any games. Fox's ledgetrapping with bair and advantage state/juggling with up air is just so absurd, reminds me of Sparg0's way of playing in a lot of ways, but with no disjoints in exchange for being even more mobile and being more of a fastfaller. Laser is also really good at dealing with matchups where Fox has to play more defensively and Fox has fantastic tech chasing due to his high ground speed.

Tweek's run with a lot of Sephiroth and DDee's run with Steve will also be discussed, but I don't know how to start discussion when it comes to those characters. There's a lot to them (especially Steve).

 

[The_Bookworm]

I have a strong feeling the big characters discussed for a few days will be , and .

Light looking unstoppable without having to fight Leo, Sparg0 or Glutonny and barely dropped any games. Fox's ledgetrapping with bair and advantage state/juggling with up air is just so absurd, reminds me of Sparg0's way of playing in a lot of ways, but with no disjoints in exchange for being even more mobile and being more of a fastfaller. Laser is also really good at dealing with matchups where Fox has to play more defensively and Fox has fantastic tech chasing due to his high ground speed.

Tweek's run with a lot of Sephiroth and DDee's run with Steve will also be discussed, but I don't know how to start discussion when it comes to those characters. There's a lot to them (especially Steve).

has been on the rise ever since the quarantine era ended. This is simply one of many reasons why this is enforced.

For , this is simply one of many great performances the top Steves have put on lately. DDee's losers run is very impressive, even convincingly beat Jake in the mirror as well. Something to note is that DDee's Pokemon Trainer also did some significant contributions to his run, but overall great run for a player that has been discussed for a while.

For Tweek's , it gets a bit weird. He still primarily played this tournament, but his Sephiroth saw a lot of action towards the end of the tournament. However, something important to note is that a lot of Tweek's wins as Sephiroth was against characters that Sephiroth is known to do well against. Both and are characters Sephiroth is very comfortable fighting against, and Tweek fought 2 Peach players and 1 Sonic player during top 12. At the very least Sephiroth does much better vs both than Diddy does.

However, Tweek the past several months has barely touched Sephiroth in a serious tournament, so the fact that it got any significant action this tournament is pretty cool to see.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

has been on the rise ever since the quarantine era ended. This is simply one of many reasons why this is enforced.

For , this is simply one of many great performances the top Steves have put on lately. DDee's losers run is very impressive, even convincingly beat Jake in the mirror as well. Something to note is that DDee's Pokemon Trainer also did some significant contributions to his run, but overall great run for a player that has been discussed for a while.

For Tweek's , it gets a bit weird. He still primarily played this tournament, but his Sephiroth saw a lot of action towards the end of the tournament. However, something important to note is that a lot of Tweek's wins as Sephiroth was against characters that Sephiroth is known to do well against. Both and are characters Sephiroth is very comfortable fighting against, and Tweek fought 2 Peach players and 1 Sonic player during top 12. At the very least Sephiroth does much better vs both than Diddy does.

However, Tweek the past several months has barely touched Sephiroth in a serious tournament, so the fact that it got any significant action this tournament is pretty cool to see.

DDee beat Jake with the PT vs Steve matchup, not the ditto because DDee thinks Steve loses badly to Pokemon Trainer (particularly Ivysaur). I believe the major times his PT came out and worked were against Jake and Lui$.
You can see DDee used PT while playing against Jake here:

DDee didnt even take the backpack off to slaughter Jake pic.twitter.com/9NzgSNI48g

— Michael (@Kargomatic) May 28, 2022

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Steve is so obnoxious. Zero risk/High reward character with little counterplay that gets negated anyways if he adjusts just one thing about his playstyle.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for Combo Breaker 2022

1. Onin
2. Loaf
3. WaDi
4. Ned
5. ATATA
5. MVD
7. Zinoto
7. SamteaSilver
9. ESAM
9. Arctice
9. IceKnight
9. Ikan
13. big_mak
13. Roger
13. Cless
13. BobbyWasabi
17. Kwaz
17. Jin
17. AnimalKingdom
17. Ravenking
17. Seth
17. Starman
17. Justyce
17. Drewish

Results for Sumabato SP 26

1. Yoshidora
2. acola
3. Asimo
4. Shirayuki
5. sssr
5. ZAKI
7. DIO
7. Tubasuwa
9. Rarukun
9. Toura
9. Masashi
9. Luminous
13. Kome
13. Exie
13. Tatsutsuyo
13. Kaninabe
17. momon
17. Senra
17. Rido
17. Lapi
17. Injelly
17. Notton
17. Karaage
17. Sylph

 

[toonito]

i think the topic from this weekend will be

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

i think the topic from this weekend will be

Yeah, uh, I think is top tier and maybe even top 10. DDee's absurd run at Momocon, acola getting top 2 at another Japanese tournament, Onin winning Combo Breaker and Tropped and Gogesta made top 8 at some EU regional.

That is one hell of a weekend and so many Steve mains have been doing well since Jake's Glitch Infinite run, as this character gets developed more and more he's just going to get better and better and the character is now rising up to a very high degree of results, to the point where Steve's playerbase is out-doing the counterplay done from players.

Steve has both the theorycrafting (all the tech) and the results. The only iffy thing is his MU spread has him lose to several top tiers like Cloud, Aegis and PT as well as the occasional high tier like Sephiroth but the Steve mains are figuring out how to deal with those too (DDee beat Goblin's Cloud and Yonni beat Cosmos).

 

[superjm]

i think the topic from this weekend will be

To add to all this, The WANTED All-Star tournament sisqui won today also had two Steves in top 8, Gogesta and Tropped.

 

[PK Gaming]

Steve is so obnoxious. Zero risk/High reward character with little counterplay that gets negated anyways if he adjusts just one thing about his playstyle.

We're also seeing relatively unknown players body known players

Not discounting their skill, because these Steve players are quite good, but the skill floor for Steve is pretty low imo

 

[Akai kage]

Results for Sumabato SP 26

1. Yoshidora
2. acola
3. Asimo
4. Shirayuki
5. sssr
5. ZAKI
7. DIO
7. Tubasuwa
9. Rarukun
9. Toura
9. Masashi
9. Luminous
13. Kome
13. Exie
13. Tatsutsuyo
13. Kaninabe
17. momon
17. Senra
17. Rido
17. Lapi
17. Injelly
17. Notton
17. Karaage
17. Sylph

Really interesting how at the moment yoshidora is the only player able to get wins against acola semi consistently, but of course he still has to play quite a bit of japan's top, I especially wanna see him versus Ken as steve sephiroth is quite bad. On a side note I feel kinda bad for Asimo, he is getting all these results with a character that's still argued between high and mid tier (probably high) but he is totally outshined by acola.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results from WINNER! #11

1. Shuton
2. KEN
3. HIKARU
4. Abadango
5. ProtoBanham
5. Gackt
7. Ly
7. shky
9. Raito
9. Mao
9. SaSamisu
9. Suinoko
13. Umeki
13. Tarakotori
13. Akasa
13. Shogun
17. Eim
17. Ryuoh
17. Shimada
17. kept
17. Tsubotsubo
17. Rimu
17. Zackray

 

[The_Bookworm]

On a side note I feel kinda bad for Asimo, he is getting all these results with a character that's still argued between high and mid tier (probably high) but he is totally outshined by acola.

I for one, agree with you. I was actually planning on bringing up Ryu's presence in the meta. Now I have the perfect transition to talk about it.

Something that sticks out to me about ESAM's recent tier list is the order he put the FGC characters. He put all of them in the high tier section, but the order isn't something you normally see from a top player tier list.
His order was: > >> >>>

Terry makes sense, given Riddles' success with him being the highest of the FGC character. The interesting thing is the Shotos. Ken is placed near the bottom of high tier and below the other FGCs, despite having by far the highest representation of the bunch, while Ryu is near the top of the bunch.

With the recent performances from Asimo and Ikan, it does make sense. They are both solo Ryu players (at the very least, they rarely pick Ken) and they have, as of late, achieved high amounts of success with the character. As a matter of fact, I found it much more likely that a Ryu player stays a solo Ryu player, while Ken players tend to have more pockets with them (oftentimes other FGC characters).

I guess with Ryu's recent high level success, it starts to feel that Ken is starting to fall behind despite possessing a higher playerbase and still having very good players like Vendetta to back him up. Ryu is far more a stable character. Ryu has been one of the biggest rising stars of the 2022 meta so far.

In the meantime, Kazuya kinda exists as his own thing so not really much comparison here.
Something I am a bit confused on is how Kazuya managed to achieve 177 points in OrionStats at #21. In the previous season, and for the longest time this season, he was barely outside the top 40, if not at the bottom of it. Suddenly, he is on the brink of breaking top 20 despite nothing much changing about his meta presence? It can't just be Riddles, since he is still primarily a Terry player and that character is at #33 with Bayo and Sheik, so I am a bit confused here. Is it another Sephiroth situation where his results is inflated by scattered regional results?