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Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

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  • Total voters
    577

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
I'm of the opinion that Pikachu is top 10, maybe top 5 but not top 3 or the best in the game. I think he loses to more matchups than ESAM let's on. Aside from Ness and GnW I think Mario, Snake, Peach, Pac-Man and Olimar are all hard for Pikachu as well.

That said, I do wonder if had certain things gone differently would our opinions on Pikachu had changed. Say ShinyMark (who hasn't done too badly at the few overseas tournaments he's been to) had been able to travel more due to visa issues and lack of money,or if Cosmos didn't drop the character during Quarantine due to Pikachu being bad on wifi, Pikachu might have had been getting better offline results than just from ESAM.

I dunno, I just find speculation like that interesting even if it doesn't mean much.
 

NairWizard

Somewhere
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,645
In general I think people put too much emphasis on the flashy stuff when judging a character. But there are other flashy characters with broken punish games who are not constantly called the best in the game by a bunch of people including top players and other prominent people.
Other characters with broken punish games don't also reversal you in disadvantage, and aren't super hard to hit in neutral.

The examples you gave, Peach and Mario, do big damage, but they have pretty clear counterplay in netural and are easy to overwhelm in disadvantage. If you have a disjoint you can anticipate most of Peach and Mario's burst options and reactively shut those options down (Peach side-b and Mario FLUDD being notably difficult to react to regardless). On the other hand, Pikachu is the one reacting to you with Quick Attack if you try to pull the same on him.

If you hit Peach or Mario into the air or offstage, the paths to finishing their stocks are pretty clear. If you hit Pikachu offstage, you could get Quick Attacked near ledge and then suddenly you're the one in disadvantage and being carried to the blastzone. This happened to Leo at Glitch while he was ledgetrapping ESAM. Leo predicted a ledge jump and up-aired but got hit by Quick Attack and died for his trouble.

When people say Pikachu isn't the best, they're typically pointing to reasons like range, kill power, light weight -- those are really superficial observations that, in my opinion, compound misunderstandings about Pikachu.

People have this image of Pikachu as a combo fiend with amazing neutral and fearsome disadvantage tools. Two of these things are true--Pikachu's neutral is actually real solid, featuring pancaking, a great grab animation despite limited grab range, and safe, hard-to-predict aerials. Pikachu in disadvantage is similarly great and can sometimes reversal you.

Where Pika struggles? Advantage.

And there's the trick: Pika isn't a touch-of-death character. He doesn't have a broken punish game at all.

Pikachu definitely has some routes that lead to death, but most of the time if you know the routes you can avoid the KO, and you'll find that you've actually taken less damage than you would from the average character. Pika combos do less % than even some of Incineroar's BnB combos in some situations. In fact, Pikachu is competing for game-worst in terms of combo damage for some of his routes.

Pikachu's frame 2 up-air is great for reacting to jumps, but it's not so great for actually juggling. When facing a Samus, Pikachu has to trade with the bombs to juggle Samus, and his up-air does so little that sometimes taking more damage than he's dealing. When facing a Ness, Pikachu presses any button to push advantage and can end up flying off the stage into the blastzone thanks to Ness up-air or b-air.

From some positions, Pikachu just can't follow up. Throw in a platform and up-air bridge conversions become frame-tight. Pikachu's ability to punish from a neutral win is determined by how well you react to tjolt; if you react to it poorly, Pika can get a lot off of the punish. If you space in reaction to it so that you can only get hit by certain angles of Quick Attack or the edge of Pika's f-air/b-air you might end up just resetting back to neutral in a couple of hits.

The low damage output is the problem; Pikachu's advantage state is one of the most inconsistent in application. Sure, sometimes he just obliterates your stock. But on average, most times, he doesn't, and that's why he's not leading the pack.
 

Gearkeeper-8a

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
196
Pikachu isnt really a combo character, he is more like a Jack of all trades like mario in the sense he can get a 0 to dead on certain characters or circumstances, but he falls shorts on killing with raw moves on neutral like other top tiers.

Combined with the averange range, averange mobility, and being a lightweight means he isnt good at scraping.

You can see it when esam have to fish for kills when he doesnt finish their opponents at high percents, mostly using dash attack, foward smash and fishing for inconsistent kill confirms.

Some top tiers can have the same issues, but isnt as bad as pikachu.
 

superjm

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
34
And there's the trick: Pika isn't a touch-of-death character. He doesn't have a broken punish game at all.
Bingo, this is exactly it.

The way Pikachu players are using him is mostly all wrong, and I don't really blame them. Here's my hot take of the day: if you like playing Pikachu because of his combo potential, mixups in advantage, desire for twitter highlights, and ability to apply hard pressure on and around the ledge, you're playing the wrong character. :ultpichu: does all of that better than Pikachu ever can.

I said it in my previous post. Pikachu is all about the grind game. You have a spammable projectile that's very effective at controlling space and can't easily be zone broken, your hurtbox shifting is utterly absurd and makes all of your aerials stupidly safe in a way that few characters can claim, Quick Attack, while not being the braindead Get Out Of jail free card some players seem to think it is, is still an extremely effective movement tool both in and out of advantage. Not to mention he can recover against the vast majority of characters for free. With these and other tools, it SHOULD be nigh impossible for many characters to get in and do anything at all, and that's where he truly excels. That's why his bad matchups end up being characters that can crack through those defenses, either by applying exceptional pressure from at range (e.g. Samus, Snake, Pac-Man, Olimar) or by neutralizing his tools (e.g. GnW's bucket on tjolt and up B to punish "safe" aerials, Ness's everything because Ness seems specifically engineered to hard counter Pikachu).

Everyone piles on #ESAMOpinions and such, but there's a clear nugget of truth when he talks about Pikachu, that being that his style of play just isn't well suited to the character. No one's is to be honest.
 

Hippieslayer

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
844
Location
Azeroth
Awesome to see some discussion going on again, Ima join in when I finish working : ) Sorry for pointless post but it really is nice to see some activity. This is the only place I know where there's people who know what they are talking about.

Edit: I wrote a super lenghty reply and it got deleted because I pressed the notification bell while doing it. **** this ****.

Anyway NairWizard and SuperJM and Gearkeeper are basically right. Half of my lengthy post was making excuses for focusing on Pika's combo game and punishes with my last post. Basically I focused on that because I think that's why people in general think Pikachu is broken. They are probably aware of some of the other stuff, but what makes their brain go "Pika broken and NR1!" is seeing Pika carry people around and across stage with nair loops and uairs and bairs. But hey I might be underestimating the avg person. And I definitely should not have mentioned top players and community figures, because they def don't consider Pika nr 1 because of the punish game.

Like.. uh, I'm well aware of the things brought up. I've played vs very campy Pika players. Not at a super high level of course. But sort of at a european small local event level or close to that. With some characters you just can't do anything. I've experienced that firsthand. I think you need to have the punish game on point if youre gonna do well with Pika too though. Ok so Pikachu shouldnt be called a touch of death character, and their average combo is unimpressive in terms of end result. But they can do touch of death combos in the right situations and if you're a Pika player you really should know when. You need both dimensions. Just like with Mario.

There's too many characters who can handle Pika's neutral in this game. And you can largely avoid getting reversaled by knowing the matchup. Unless you don't have the tools to handle Pikachu's neutral you can play conservative and win because Pikachu's damage output and kill power and weight are all weak so they are gonna lose the long game. Steve beats Pika too afaik. And its also funny how Peach obliterates Pika. Swordies bar seph and byleth win too if they can avoid getting gimped. T-jolt is really good. But it's really just a better Mario fireball with some extra functionalities. Lots of characters can jump in and hit t-jolt and Pika at the same time. People getting reversaled is partly just a MU inexperience thing. Leo likes to press. he's a guy who relies on killing early, he's vulnerable in that regard. Pika long game sucks (if Pika can't just shut you down completely in neutral and whittle you down) because light weight, low damage output and lack of good kills so if you can play the long game, that should be the strat.
 
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Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,295
Not really related, but does anything think Chrom really deserves to be twenty or so spots lower than Roy? Yes, yes, his recovery is awful and he doesn't have DED killing at absurd percents, but that is quite a drop. Side note in how would you fix him? Only way I can really think to do it without completely reworking the move is to extend the armor and/or give him some damage based armor on the higher parts. At least during the spin.
 

Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
536
Location
New York
Not really related, but does anything think Chrom really deserves to be twenty or so spots lower than Roy? Yes, yes, his recovery is awful and he doesn't have DED killing at absurd percents, but that is quite a drop. Side note in how would you fix him? Only way I can really think to do it without completely reworking the move is to extend the armor and/or give him some damage based armor on the higher parts. At least during the spin.
You could fix the move by giving him more horizontal drift when using it. Not crazy, but enough to recover without his double jump.
 

BitBitio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
204
Speaking of Roy and Chrom, Mr. R has been playing more Roy recently and thinks Chrom is holding him back.
He also says he thinks Chrom is now holding himself back (f-bomb in the comment)

Yeah, Chrom's metagame might as well now be a corpse.
eh, we’ll have to see. Rivers is still a great player who arguably pushed the Chrom meta more than Mr. R did and plus Mr. R might not stick to Roy- he’s been talking about this swap for a long time so maybe, maybe not.

I personally think Chrom has untapped potential- he can maybe play a Lucina-type spacing and sword zoning game with Roy-type aggression and combos when he gets an advantage. I still don’t think he’s theoretically better than Roy but he absolutely has top tier potential. He just needs representation.
 
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StoicPhantom

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
589
From my observations, Chrom and Roy play nearly identical where it matters, but Roy gets greater reward and is able to better utilize his speed to frame trap opponents. Roy will always be able to kill earlier, setup better gimp opportunities at lower percents, make big damage plays on reaction to an opening, and utilize sour spots to setup combos and confirms that otherwise wouldn't exist for Chrom. Just a simple Nair crossup to sweetspot Bair to counter jump OoS will be significantly better and more feasible for Roy over Chrom. Fighting at that distance is more common at higher levels of play so having bigger damage and power up close is actually more preferable.

I think the Pikachu discussion highlighted the importance that damage and early/easy kill potential really has in the meta. If your character struggles to consistently capitalize on neutral wins then they are always going to be susceptible to simply getting outplayed or reversed on. I see Chrom players struggle more often to maintain a consistent neutral than Roy players to get big damage on reaction. I've always thought the argument that a character with explosive mobility and a small sword was supposed to be focused on precision spacing goofy, but that design clearly benefits more from aggressive play than careful spacing. There's almost always a path for Roy, but Chrom relies quite a lot on getting his opponent in specific situations.

I don't think there's a significant difference between the two, but all those little things add up and Roy will be able to make major reversals whereas Chrom is pretty limited in that regard by design. He suffers the same issue as Mythra where his speed his hampered by hitbox deficiencies and both suffer in damage output (per hit) and kill power. Chrom might not be as bad on shield as Mythra, but his spacing nature in general can often put him in the wrong range to significantly punish OoS options like Roy. And regardless, his confirms and punishes will never be as strong or devastating as Roy's.

There's no "fixing" him because his problems are that his design isn't optimal for how Ultimate is played. It's a problem that a lot of swordies suffer in general and that's why the archetype has fallen off significantly compared to their dominance in previous games (with a few nuanced exceptions). The "fix" is Roy himself by virtue of being tuned in ways that work better in this game: higher damage output, more and stronger kill options, a style that actually makes good use of his attributes, etc. By being "forced" to play at a closer range, you actually open up a lot more opportunities.
 

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,295
Er...I meant fix the recovery. That remains at least the biggest excuse people have for rating him as low. Without having that, the gap seems to close quite significantly
 

StoicPhantom

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
589
Er...I meant fix the recovery. That remains at least the biggest excuse people have for rating him as low. Without having that, the gap seems to close quite significantly
Oops, I realize that now, sorry. This line threw me off (I'm posting while tired lol):
Side note in how would you fix him?
Though I also meant for my post to target the Chrom discussion overall. Why Mr. R might want to switch and why Chrom doesn't seem to be as popular as Roy and the issues I perceive him to have.
 

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,295
Fair, that level of sheer kill power is impressive. Though not sure why they decided it was a good idea to give the weaker one the worse recovery. Maybe he tested better early on or they were accounting for Chromicide. Is quite a puzzle when they seemed determined to make Lucina more like Marth in some ways. Though it's far too late to change anything. They are an odd case of echoes different enough to matter, but unlike Marth, Chrom is still pretty good.
 

blackghost

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,195

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
Results for Maesuma TOP 8
Yoshi wins a major

1. Yoshidora :ultyoshi:
2. Hero :ultbowser:
3. Nietono :ultpichu: :ultdiddy: :ulthero2:
4. MASA :ultfalco:
5. Etsuji :ultdiddy:
5. Kameme :ultsora: :ultsheik:
7. YOC :ultcloud:
7. ProtoBanham :ultlucina: :ultminmin
9. Repo :ultmegaman:
9. Kojika Yoshio :ultdiddy:
9. Asimo :ultryu:
9. Toura :ultsamus:
13. HIKARU :ultroy: :ultdk: :ultpacman:
13. Tsubotsubo :ultolimar: :ultjoker: :ultcorrinf:
13. Yaura :ultdarksamus: :ultsamus:
13. Floyd :ultyoshi:
17. Paseriman :ultfox:
17. Noluck :ultmegaman:
17. DIO :ultsnake:
17. Shirayuki :ultinkling:
17. Komorikiri :ultsora:
17. Luminous :ultjoker: :ultmythra: :ultpokemontrainerf:
17. Sidarezakura :ultsnake:
17. Rizeasu :ultbyleth: :ultrobinf: :ult_terry:

I'd like to point out that the top 4 of this event (and top 6 if you think Diddy Kong isn't a top tier) are all characters that are considered high tiers, not top tier.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
Top 8 for Battle of BC 4

Winners

Glutonny :ultwario: vs Tea :ultpacman: :ultkazuya:
Shuton :ultolimar: :ultmythra: vs KEN :ultsonic:

Losers
Kome :ultshulk: (Lost to Glutonny) vs Ouch!? :ultwolf: (Lost to Larry Lurr)
sisqui :ultdarksamus: (Lost to Shuton) vs Riddles :ult_terry: (Lost to KEN)

No US players in top 8.
 
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Cheryl~

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
407
Switch FC
SW-1511-1076-9918
Very nice to see after a long string of 9th placings at majors, Samus/Dark Samus have finally made top 8. The character has really become kind of a hidden boss in the meta, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sisqui makes it further than 7th considering they've gone game 5 with Riddles before (Samus has a pretty good matchup against Terry, and destroys Kazuya).
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
Battle of BC 4 results

1. KEN :ultsephiroth::ultsonic:
2. Tea :ultpacman::ultkazuya:
3. Ouch!? :ultwolf:
4. Riddles :ult_terry::ultkazuya: :ultrichter:
5. Shuton :ultolimar: :ultmythra:
5. Glutonny :ultwario:
7. Kome :ultshulk:
7. sisqui :ultdarksamus:
9. MVD :ultsnake:
9. ESAM :ultpikachu: :ultbrawler:
9. BassMage :ultjigglypuff::ultfox:
9. Cosmos :ultmythra:
13. BigD :ulticeclimbers:
13. SpamCop :ultmario:
13. Chag :ultpalutena:
13. Exodia :ultzss:
17. H4DS :ultpikachu:
17. SuperGirlKels :ultsonic:
17. moxi :ultwolf:
17. Peli :ultsonic:
17. Tilde :ultfalco:
17. JDV :ultpacman:
17. Justice :ultminmin
17. Larry Lurr :ultfalco: :ultwolf:
25. blanc :ultfalco:
25. Leon :ultlucina:
25. jaredisking1 :ultshulk:
25. pokepen :ultsephiroth:
25. AndresFn :ultken: :ultryu:
25. Tickle :ultmythra:
25. Dark Wizzy :ultmario:
25. Ludo :ultmario:
 
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BlazGreen

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
371
That was one of the best top 8's I've seen for this game. Twelve different characters used, Riddles overcoming his character demon in Samus, Ouch's amazing run and comebacks, intense game 5 situations like with Ken vs Shuton and Tea vs Gluto and finally Ken getting :ultsephiroth: 's first ever major win.
 

Frihetsanka

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
1,982
Location
Sweden
Are people going to start putting Sephiroth in top 20 on their tier list now, I wonder? People seem to have quite a bit of recency bias so it wouldn't surprise me. I still think he's like top 30-35 or so.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
Are people going to start putting Sephiroth in top 20 on their tier list now, I wonder? People seem to have quite a bit of recency bias so it wouldn't surprise me. I still think he's like top 30-35 or so.
Funny you say that, Smash University does a podcast called the Coaches Corner where they talk about characters viability and what the players do of those characters really well and Charles said he doesn't think the character is top tier and Bam said that he thinks the character is in the 20-30 section.

In any case, I think this weekend has shown (if it wasn't obvious already) that you do not need to be top tier to win majors in this game. Both Sephiroth and Yoshi are not considered top tier by NA players (Japan believes higher on both of those characters), and they both won a major this weekend. I find that to be a very good thing, the game is so well balanced in that regard.
 
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Iron Maw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
139
NNID
ironmaw
3DS FC
1091-8076-0883
Are people going to start putting Sephiroth in top 20 on their tier list now, I wonder? People seem to have quite a bit of recency bias so it wouldn't surprise me. I still think he's like top 30-35 or so.
Pretty sure plenty of people had Septhy in their top 20 before his win. KEN apparently thinks he's in the top 10.
 
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Frihetsanka

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
1,982
Location
Sweden
Pretty sure plenty of people had Septhy in their top 20 before his win. KEN apparently thinks he's in the top 10.
I'm looking at the most recent YouTube tier lists from notable players, and ESAM #45, Hungrybox #23, LeoN #20, Riddles #31. In the most recent Reddit tier list he was #33. Some Twitter tier lists: DDee's tier list put him #33. Dabuz #33. WaDi #35 (loosely ordered). Aaron #23. Cloudy #45 (and he co--mains Sephiroth along with Aegis, who he put as #1), Peli top 50 (he didn't order them in tiers but that means at best #41), Jake #24.

So out of 12 tier lists that I checked, 1 person put him in top 20, 3 top 30, 5 top 40, 3 top 50. His average placement is around #32, and that's assuming Peli #41. So I would say that people putting Sephiroth in top 20 before KEN would be a bit of an outlier rather than the norm, at least recently. A year ago it was more common to put Sephiroth higher, but people figured out the flaws of the characters quickly and he thus dropped in most tier lists. Hungrybox #23, LeoN #20, Aaron #23, and Jake #24 are interesting though, they're more optimistic than most people when it comes to Sephiroth. Will KEN keep it up? I imagine Japan's meta might actually be fairly kind to Sephiroth, I don't think there are too many players of his worst matchups there. Sephiroth has an interesting matchup chart in that he goes even or beats a good amount of strong characters, but he also loses against some other characters, like Diddy Kong, Sheik, Pikachu, and Fox.

I still think Sephiroth is around #25-35. He still has the same flaws as before. KEN is a really skilled player, but he probably avoids some of the worst MUs (and can use Sonic if he needs to). Also, we know that top #25-35 characters than get results, this is nothing new.

On an unrelated note, when looking at this list many people seem to be putting Pikachu outside of top 3 now.
 

F4lcoMain

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
42
So regarding Pikachu, something I see a lot of other players do when playing online is spam SHAC Fair, which I counterplay by just crouching and doing an option afterwards. Is crouching actually a good way to counterplay Pikachu, or is this specifically good against SHAC Fair?
 

Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
536
Location
New York
So regarding Pikachu, something I see a lot of other players do when playing online is spam SHAC Fair, which I counterplay by just crouching and doing an option afterwards. Is crouching actually a good way to counterplay Pikachu, or is this specifically good against SHAC Fair?
Generally you want to be very mobile against Pikachu so I would so it’s specifically good against SHAC Fair. Other wise you will eat like a million T-Jolts and grabs once the Pikachu realizes that your crouching under them.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,029
The Gimvitational's primary bracket started today. Half of the round robin pools is complete.

Here are our set results so far:
Sparg0:ultcloud: 3-2 Jin:ultmythra:
Cosmos:ultmythra: 0-3 Gackt:ultness:
Cosmos:ultmythra: 3-1 Jin:ultmythra:

Light:ultfox: 3-0 Chase:ultpalutena:
Asimo:ultryu: 3-2 Marss:ultzss:
Asimo:ultryu: 3-2 Chase:ultpalutena:

acola:ultsteve: 3-2 Ferps:ultkazuya:
Kola:ultroy: 3-1 Larry Lurr:ultwolf:
Kola:ultcloud: 3-2 Ferps:ultkazuya:

Tweek:ultsephiroth: 3-0 loaf:ultwario:
Riddles:ult_terry: 2-3 yonni:ultsteve:
Riddles:ult_terry: 3-1 loaf:ultwario:


Very interesting day for Steve and FGC enthusiasts.
Also, I like how all the Aegis players got lumped into the same pool.

Btw for those wondering about the Sparg0 vs Jin set, Sparg0 was playing with his food for most of that set. lol

Tomorrow, the second half of RRs will occur.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
Due to some rather tragic circumstances revolving Zackray losing a Pokemon Unite tournament, he is looking to return to Smash Ultimate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/vf2p7z I'm expecting :ultjoker:'s results to climb dramatically soon, considering outside of the few tournaments where he went Sora, he was going mostly Joker and doing very well with the character (EPS 1, Mesuma, Kagaribi 1, 3, 4 and 6 and Summit 3).
 

Hippieslayer

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
844
Location
Azeroth
they make it drag on so long that people in other time zones cant watch it live even though its a small invitational, and they do it with these side events I can't imagine anyone caring about, would be ok if they just did all the BS in the end after the real stuff, but nooooo sprinkle it throughout the event
 
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F4lcoMain

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
42
Due to some rather tragic circumstances revolving Zackray losing a Pokemon Unite tournament, he is looking to return to Smash Ultimate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/vf2p7z I'm expecting :ultjoker:'s results to climb dramatically soon, considering outside of the few tournaments where he went Sora, he was going mostly Joker and doing very well with the character (EPS 1, Mesuma, Kagaribi 1, 3, 4 and 6 and Summit 3).
This is pretty awful situation tbh. Feel bad for the guy.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,677
Location
Icerim Mountains
This is pretty awful situation tbh. Feel bad for the guy.
I don't follow him enough to know how vested he was but judging by the post he sounds like he's ready to go full on and that's going to be great news for the meta and his wellbeing.

Meanwhile...

F. Joker is sooo good.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,195
Speaking of Joker, Marss is doing really well so far with the character which is nice to see. He seems really serious on making Joker his main over ZSS rn.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,029
Here are the second half of RR pools here.

Sparg0:ultcloud: 3-0 Cosmos:ultmythra:
Sparg0:ultcloud: 3-0 Gackt:ultness:
Gackt:ultness: 2-3 Jin:ultmythra:

Light:ultfox: 1-3 Asimo:ultryu:
Light:ultfox: 1-3 Marss:ultjoker:
Marss:ultjoker: 3-0 Chase:ultpalutena:

acola:ultsteve: 3-2 Kola:ultcloud:
acola:ultsteve: 3-0 Larry Lurr:ultfalco:
Larry Lurr:ultfalco: 3-0 Ferps:ultkazuya::ultsora:

Tweek:ultsephiroth::ultdiddy: 2-3 Riddles:ultkazuya::ult_terry: (it started as Sephiroth vs Kazuya, but it shifted to Diddy and Terry towards the end)
Tweek:ultsephiroth: 3-0 yonni:ultsteve:
yonni:ultsteve: 2-3 loaf:ultwario:



Our standings
1: Sparg0:ultcloud:
2: Gackt:ultness:
3: Jin:ultmythra:
4: Cosmos:ultmythra:

1: Asimo:ultryu:
2: Marss:ultjoker::ultzss:
3: Light:ultfox:
4: Chase:ultpalutena:

1: acola:ultsteve:
2: Kola:ultcloud::ultroy:
3: Larry Lurr:ultfalco::ultwolf:
4: Ferps:ultkazuya:

1: Tweek:ultsephiroth::ultdiddy:
2: Riddles:ult_terry::ultkazuya:
3: yonni:ultsteve:
4: loaf:ultwario:


Some things to mention:
  1. For pool 1, Gackt did pretty well considering the swordies he had to deal with. Jin was initially going to be VoiD before he got sick for those who were wondering, which is how we ended up with a double Aegis bracket. Sparg0 displayed dominance as ever, and Jin definitely showed off a unique flavor to Aegis in comparison to Cosmos.
  2. For pool 2, we had an excellent first main showing for Marss' Joker, with his victory over Light being a particular being the main highlight. FGC does continue to be a bit of a thorn at his side. Light on the other hand underperformed quite a bit, with his loses vs Asimo and Marss.
  3. For pool 3, Larry had big potential to get first seeding. Outside of the first game, he was doing fairly well vs acola, but he was having a lot of issues getting the kill. acola had a lot of close calls throughout the bracket, but he managed to barely make it out as first seed. Also, Larry vs Ferps was definitely the most one-sided set of this tournament so far.
  4. For pool 4, we see Tweek's upgraded Sephiroth finally dispatching of his Steve problem with his decisive 3-0 victory over yonni. It started in yonni's favor, but Tweek instead of rushing in with his strategy, which is the primary culprit behind his Steve issues to begin with, adapted quickly, and beat him decisively. The sets involving Riddles where intense as always.

Clinical trail sets are going on now. Smash gg isn't really showing up these sets right now, so I will record the set results as it goes along.
 
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The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,029
[Double post, oops]

And here are our Clinical Trail set results.

Larry Lurr:ultwolf::ultfalco: 3-0 Chase:ultpalutena:
Riddles:ultkazuya: 3-0 Larry Lurr:ultwolf::ultfalco:

Light:ultfox: 2-3 Cosmos:ultmythra:
Kola:ultcloud: 2-3 Cosmos:ultmythra:

Jin:ultmythra: 1-3 loaf:ultwario:
Marss:ultjoker: 3-2 loaf:ultwario:

yonni:ultsteve: 3-1 Ferps:ultkazuya:
Gackt:ultness: 2-3 yonni:ultsteve:



Here are our sets for tomorrow:

Winner's
Sparg0:ultcloud: vs Riddles:ult_terry::ultkazuya:
Tweek:ultsephiroth: vs yonni:ultsteve:
Asimo:ultryu: vs Cosmos:ultmythra:
acola:ultsteve: vs Marss:ultjoker:

Loser's
Light:ultfox: vs Larry Lurr:ultfalco:
Jin:ultmythra: vs Gackt:ultness:
Chase:ultpalutena: vs Kola:ultcloud::ultroy:
Ferps:ultkazuya: vs loaf:ultwario:


After a very shaky performance yesterday, Cosmos was able to make the comeback and snatch a place in the winner's bracket.
Tomorrow, we are going to see a few runbacks from the pools, such as Tweek vs yonni and Jin vs Gackt.

Interestingly enough, this tournament seems to be a proving ground for a few player's other characters, such as Marss' Joker and Kola's Cloud. They seem to want to show off the character they have been training for this tournament specifically.
 
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BitBitio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
204
Light:ultfox: has had a rough go of things this tournament so far. He looked so insanely strong at Momocon but this weekend has looked more like pre-pandemic Light.
Gackt:ultness: also really got the short end of the stick having to play tons of swordfighters over and over and I hope he can seal the runback against Jin.


Highlight sets-
Marss:ultjoker::ultzss: v acola:ultsteve::ultkazuya:- a set that will be very cool to watch. acola says ZSS is Steve’s worst MU so he might have to pull out the Kazuya if Marss plays ZSS instead of Joker. But tbh I think that ZSS and Joker both have good matchups against Kazuya so acola might be headed to losers early. I was really anticipating that set in pools until VoiD had to cancel due to health issues so I’m glad we get to see it now.
Sparg0:ultcloud: v Riddles:ult_terry::ultkazuya:- Both super explosive players that are really exciting to watch. Riddles in particular has become one of my favorite players recently and I think he has the ability to beat Sparg0 if he plays particularly well. After watching him at BoBC4 against Gluto and sisqui I could totally see it happening.
Ferps:ultkazuya: v loaf:ultwario:- Ferps is probably the best solo Kazuya and loaf is probably the best non-Gluto Wario out there and this matchup is one of the absolute most intense ones out there. Both characters have the tools to delete stocks very quickly so I’m anticipating some amazing clips coming out of this if nothing else.


Following Genesis, Low Tide City, Pound, and Momocon, most people pretty much believed that MkLeo, Sparg0, Glutonny, and Light were inarguably top 4 in the world but I think that Gluto and Light might not quite be there. Battle of BC 4 was mediocre for Gluto if he wanted to have a strong argument for 3rd (although given his win over Leo at Pound and Light’s ever so slightly tamer results, Gluto will probably still be ranked third on the upcoming PGRU if I had to guess) and Light hasn’t been playing like a top 4 player either so far this tour. I would actually put something like MkLeo>Sparg0>acola for my top 3 at this point but it might be better to just sit back and watch this bracket play out. Super exciting stuff.
 
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NairWizard

Somewhere
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,645
Wow, that's some catastrophically bad matchmaking. Several repeat matches are likely from pools, and Gackt fights yet another Aegis. They could have done several other arrangements that were significantly less terrible without even trying.
 
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