Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Sucumbio]

Zomba did a tier list

Current Opinions on a Tier List. Ordered to the best of my ability pic.twitter.com/VTmlZMlbKP

— Zomba (@ZombaSalvatore) February 1, 2022

Interesting... As usual the same 3 top tiers lol but I do like how his top tier is basically the same as others with their high tier added in (I don't think Steve is top tier but because he's so low in zomba's top category it fits with other's high tier for example). Some odd placements that stuck out: Shulk and MM seem low and Yoshi seems high... Rosa is too low imho...hm.

 

[Idon]

Zomba did a tier list

Current Opinions on a Tier List. Ordered to the best of my ability pic.twitter.com/VTmlZMlbKP

— Zomba (@ZombaSalvatore) February 1, 2022

Crazy how Zackray put Sheik as top 1 while Zomba but em at bottom of high tier.

 

[The_Bookworm]

OrionStats for 2022 has been officially launched.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRlzy4z_dpqb2ZRhGoqtbDcuvUKz_ROsMZHGegon53M/edit#gid=0


expectedly lead the charge, both being tied for #1, with just being barely behind them.

The order of character placements still looks a lot more... normal, in comparison to the craziness of the beginning of the Fall 2021 season.

 

[SKX31]

Smash Ultimate Characters with the Most Games on Smashgg in 2021 for Each Country pic.twitter.com/WkRdSeMQDc

— Jeremy (@ETossed) February 2, 2022

With the obligatory caveat that eTossed later realized a mistake: Belgium, Bulgaria and South Korea should be Sonic.

Overall, while this can feel a bit surface level it is still some really interesting data not least since it shows a mixture of expected and unexpected results through the smash.gg playerbase (both online and offline). Also, one Brazilian team organized all-random tourneys while the one (North) Macedonian counted went Random, so that's why Random's listed as the most popular SSBU character. Late edit: If I'm not wrong then the total number of countries represented in the map is 83.

Google Doc here.

Full image here.

 

[Eremurus]

Smash Ultimate Characters with the Most Games on Smashgg in 2021 for Each Country pic.twitter.com/WkRdSeMQDc

— Jeremy (@ETossed) February 2, 2022

With the obligatory caveat that eTossed later realized a mistake: Belgium, Bulgaria and South Korea should be Sonic.

Overall, while this can feel a bit surface level it is still some really interesting data not least since it shows a mixture of expected and unexpected results through the smash.gg playerbase (both online and offline). Also, one Brazilian team organized all-random tourneys while the one (North) Macedonian counted went Random, so that's why Random's listed as the most popular SSBU character. Late edit: If I'm not wrong then the total number of countries represented in the map is 83.

Google Doc here.

Full image here.

Haha, Mother Russia. How appropriate.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Cosmos did a Pyra/Mythra matchup chart

 

[F4lcoMain]

Cosmos did a Pyra/Mythra matchup chart

Didn't Gungir beat Shuton's Pyra with ganondorf? Probably still a losing matchup, but might not be as bad as one may think at first glance.

Video

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Didn't Gungir beat Shuton's Pyra with ganondorf? Probably still a losing matchup, but might not be as bad as one may think at first glance.

Video

Online and offline are two completely seperate games. Aegis isn't as good on wifi and Ganondorf is heavily buffed. Also Shuton's Aegis was worse then compared to now.

 

[NairWizard]

So if you average cosmos' and sparg0's matchup charts, you have:

• Wolf, Fox, Joker, and Pacman in even
• Pikachu in slight loss
• Diddy Kong as the only loss

And Tweek thinks that Diddy Kong loses quite badly to Pyra/Mythra to the point of preferring Wario or Sephiroth for it, so I think you can safely bet that they don't have any losing matchups.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So if you average cosmos' and sparg0's matchup charts, you have:

• Wolf, Fox, Joker, and Pacman in even
• Pikachu in slight loss
• Diddy Kong as the only loss

And Tweek thinks that Diddy Kong loses quite badly to Pyra/Mythra to the point of preferring Wario or Sephiroth for it, so I think you can safely bet that they don't have any losing matchups.

In all fairness, Tweek is pretty much pessimistic on every character he plays other then Wolf.

 

[KirbySquad101]

So, from what I'm gathering/summarizing from Cosmo's explanations, the characters that can give Pythra a hard time are:

• Characters who can bait with their projectiles (Joker, Pac-Man, Diddy Kong)
• Characters who can match Mythra's speed and frame data (Mii Brawler, Diddy Kong, Pikachu, Lucina, Inkling)
• Characters who can cover their recovery options (Inkling, Min Min)

The reasoning - to me - makes less sense the more you look at the rest of the cast (i.e. the +1/2 section) and recognize there's a lot of overlap going on across tiers as far as character traits are concerned (Mii Brawler can make Mythra guess but Fox and Sheik can't?). So in that regard, that leads me to believe that for whatever reason, either:

A. Cosmos is underselling the characters in +1/+2 against Pythra
B. Cosmos is underselling Pythra against the characters in even or -1

There was a time where I would've easily said it's A. But considering the theorycraft by multiple pros on the character along with the dominant results to back it up ON TOP of the fact that in practice I'm not seeing a consistent answer to the duo besides MKLeo, I'm leaning towards B. And the fact that I'm leaning towards the possibility that Cosmos is underrating his character when his MU chart already looks as ridiculous as it does kinda worries me lol.

Perhaps I'm simplifying too much, but that's what I'm feeling atm about the character.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Say hello to our young heroes travelling from around the world to begin their next quest at #UltimateSummit 4 🍄✨ pic.twitter.com/UCTiD1lHpg

— Beyond the Smash (@BTSsmash) February 5, 2022

All 10 confirmed players at Summit. Zackray was attempted to be invited but Zackray couldn't go.

 

[SKX31]

LOSC Esports Fighters #1 (69 entrant regional, organized by Flow's sponsor LOSC*) results:

1st. Raflow
2nd. Sisqui
3rd. Leon
4th. Ogey
5th. Mr. E
5th. ALtek
7th. Eko /
7th. AndresFN
9th. Flow
9th. TriM
9th. Oryon
9th. PeW

Significant win for Raflow still, especially since he took down Sisqui 3-1 in GF.

*(Lille Olympique Sporting Club, French football / soccer team. Also organized Temple: Hermes Edition last year.)

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Mr. R posted his thoughts on some of the top tiers, notably , / , , and .

Hot take that shouldn't really be a hot take: Palu is arguably the best character in the game, and if she isn't, she's definitely a contender comfortably somewhere in top 6

— BKROG | Ramin (@Mr_RSmash) February 6, 2022

Listen I said arguably cause I can't with certainty say which character IS the best in the game right now

All I'm saying is that Palu should definitely be included in that conversation, just like how Joker, Pika, Aegis etc are

— BKROG | Ramin (@Mr_RSmash) February 6, 2022

OH ALSO Shulk too, the world is still sleeping on that character so much but I promise you he also belongs there

— BKROG | Ramin (@Mr_RSmash) February 6, 2022

 

[blackghost]

I. Am. So. Tired. Of. Shulk's. Potential. As. An. Argument.
Theory craft is fun. Personally I love it to a point. But at some point the bill comes due. Shulk has to do something to justify these takes.and really.more than one shulk player to justify these claims.
Otherwise I'm just gonna argue that mythra and pyra do his monado arts better at lower execution. Sure she doesn't have the free escape but she has switching mixup and an extra air dodge option in its place.

 

[Aligo]

In my opinion the issue with Shulk is that all of his strength is concentrated into two aeriels and a neutral special, with everything else being quite mediocre. That and the fact that his model and animation are rather unsightly.[/QUOTE]

 

[Rizen]

In all fairness, Tweek is pretty much pessimistic on every character he plays other then Wolf.

is a stupid character. I've been using him in tournaments and practicing on wifi. The more I play, the more reassured I am that he's top 5. Blaster is arguably the best projectile in the game; it's transcendent and deals up to 9.6%, which is crazy for that kind of projectile. It's twice what YL's fire arrows deal. Then his DA crosses up shields which makes it hard to punish. F/B/U air and Ftilt are all basically sword attacks in terms of range. He has the 6th best air speed, better than Wario's. And his sideB can snipe players on platforms on the other side of stages like BF. All this gives him the best midrange game of the cast and this is coming from someone who used to main YL. Wolf is stupidly good and safe. Blaster's free. DA's mostly free. SH Fair is also free when spaced right and Fair chains into other aerials. Dash grab's a mix up because people are conditioned to shield. It's crazy.
His Fsmash is slow but strong and hard to punish at -10 on shield. It's great for fairly safe reads. Nair's a sex kick, which are always useful. He has a great kill and damage game. His recovery is linear and on the shorter side but not terrible and his air speed makes escaping juggling effective. The only losing MUs he has IMO are he gets vortexed by the rats, Mario and maybe Ness but those aren't terrible. The only reason Wolf's not number 1 is a few other characters are even more outrageous.

 

[Sucumbio]

ESAM seems to enjoy these move specific lists lol. This is how he ranks side specials.

 

[Nah]

I knew why in his previous list he had Robin twice, but I don't get why Robin is listed twice in this particular list?

 

[Wigglerman]

NVM, I'm dumb. This is specials, not air attack.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I knew why in his previous list he had Robin twice, but I don't get why Robin is listed twice in this particular list?

It's the Mii Gunner Arcfire knockoff for female Robin.

 

[Rizen]

View attachment 344627

ESAM seems to enjoy these move specific lists lol. This is how he ranks side specials.

I know I've been pessimistic about lately but his side special should be moved to busted. Boomerangs are really good and he has the best boomerang because it combos into Fair at any realistic %. YL's boomerang would be broken on a character with better aerials.

 

[Arthur97]

Marth's Dancing Blade as busted? Like...as in it doesn't work well? How could his be that high? Then again, "busted" tier seems too big.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Marth's Dancing Blade as busted? Like...as in it doesn't work well? How could his be that high? Then again, "busted" tier seems too big.

I think he imagines the moves in a vacuum, so imagine like, Mario getting DB. This is why Joker's is only in "nice" since it's good on him partly thanks of his above-average mobility.

Corrin side-B on a character with a strong neutral and good mobility would be scary.

 

[Arthur97]

I think he imagines the moves in a vacuum, so imagine like, Mario getting DB. This is why Joker's is only in "nice" since it's good on him partly thanks of his above-average mobility.

Corrin side-B on a character with a strong neutral and good mobility would be scary.

Main issue with Marth's is, surprise, surprise, the tipper. Especially on a move where Marth actively moves so much during it.

 

[Sucumbio]

Main issue with Marth's is, surprise, surprise, the tipper. Especially on a move where Marth actively moves so much during it.

Marty's db is annoyingly only useful at certain percents... Like if you use it when your opponent is too low it pushes them away to the point the 4th hit completely wiffs lol. It's frustrating cause I used it a lot in brawl and smash 4 (I don't remember which one but down on hit 4 "green" was a soft spike even).

 

[F4lcoMain]

View attachment 344627

ESAM seems to enjoy these move specific lists lol. This is how he ranks side specials.

Might just be because of wifi, but Gordo is insanely annoying to reflect back with normal attacks since it absorbs some Projectiles like Falco's Lasers and hitting with an attack sometimes extends the characters hurbux, so they still end up getting hit anyways. With Falco specifically, I usually have to use down b to reflect it properly.

I am torn on Falco's Side B being S-Tier. On one hand, I've relied on Side-B -> Back Air to close out a few too many stocks, especially against heavies. However, the move is so exploitable as a recovery and loses to a lot, like shield and attack. Though I think part of the issue is that Falco's Up B is so bad, so you need to rely on Side B way more as a recovery.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

I think he imagines the moves in a vacuum, so imagine like, Mario getting DB. This is why Joker's is only in "nice" since it's good on him partly thanks of his above-average mobility.

Corrin side-B on a character with a strong neutral and good mobility would be scary.

Put it on a character who conditions spotdodge and it would be mega busted.

 

[B_Burg]

Looking at the individual move tier lists ESAM has made so far (and the Smash attack tier list by Panda) got me thinking.

I've talked pessimistically about for a bit on here, but I've mentioned that I really like his design. I think these lists emphasize part of why. I don't necessarily agree with the placement of Megaman's moves on all of the lists so far, but I understand why they are where they are. For those who haven't seen, Megaman's moves have all (so far) been placed near the lower end of these lists.

To be fair, they haven't gotten to the strongest stuff in his kit (pellets and metal blade) but in a vacuum I could see why people might think Megaman has a largely mediocre moveset. But things don't really apply in a vacuum in the actual game and Megaman to me kind of feels like a character that is more than the sum of his parts. Moves that seem middling or mediocre, that when applied with the other tools in his moveset, as well as his mobility, have just enough use to make sense.

I wanted to emphasize that because I think there are some characters who kind of suffer from the opposite problem. Characters who have good moves, maybe even a good number of good moves in a vacuum, but that just don't come together in a cohesive way and the character ends up worse for it.


That's all a bunch of theory crafting anyway, but I just wanted to take the opportunity to heap some praise on Megaman's design.

 

[Arthur97]

Mega Man's fair isn't busted or anything, but its quick, disjointed, and a kill move. Seems it should be average at absolute worst. Seems pretty good to me.

Crash Bomber though, outside of some niche big brain plays, does seem pretty lackluster.

 

[Trunks159]

I wanted to emphasize that because I think there are some characters who kind of suffer from the opposite problem. Characters who have good moves, maybe even a good number of good moves in a vacuum, but that just don't come together in a cohesive way and the character ends up worse for it.

Yeah like with his fair and ftilt and downsmash

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Top 8 of recent Georgia weekly

Tonight's Ranks! @Kola_irl with the reset! GG's & Thanks for Playing! pic.twitter.com/ZK7kWNTo88

— 4o4 Esports (@4o4esports) February 11, 2022

Cardd's Basement is tomorrow, a Georgia super regional. It's absolutely stacked, having Kola, Zomba, Fatality, Peabnut, DDee, Moxi, Teaser, Mugen, omega, Sonido, Anathema, Wrath, Vendetta, Jahzz0 and more.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Mii Swordfighters Ike like side-B is really good, has less endlag, goes through opponents, and the uncharged version goes pretty far esp if done from a jump. Also helps that people can't tell it apart from their falcon kick down-b. Kinda don't get why more people don't use it. Looking at Swordfighter sets they don't really get that much mileage out of chakram anyway.

Having good burst is really useful when you're a slow character.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Mii Swordfighters Ike like side-B is really good, has less endlag, goes through opponents, and the uncharged version goes pretty far esp if done from a jump. Also helps that people can't tell it apart from their falcon kick down-b. Kinda don't get why more people don't use it. Looking at Swordfighter sets they don't really get that much mileage out of chakram anyway.

Having good burst is really useful when you're a slow character.

Not good enough to ever consider giving up Chakram, his best move by a country mile. Ask any of the few MSF mains out there and they will tell you this character rides or dies on chakram. There’s a very clear reason every msf used chakram: it’s just super versatile. It spaces, it anti airs, it can edgeguard, it does so much for msf.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Not good enough to ever consider giving up Chakram, his best move by a country mile. Ask any of the few MSF mains out there and they will tell you this character rides or dies on chakram. There’s a very clear reason every msf used chakram: it’s just super versatile. It spaces, it anti airs, it can edgeguard, it does so much for msf.

Shuriken isn't a terrible replacement, so it's your best bet if you wanna run Gale Stab.

But to quote MockRock: "Just run Gale Strike & Chakram."
Up & down specials are free reign at least :D

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

MkLeo is playing Corrin and thinks the character is good.

Good offline session with @Maister_SSB Forgot how playing offline felt, started a bit rusty with byleth but ended up adjusting quite well, corrin also seems way better than i thought. People might not know but i started using corrin and i legit think she is really good.

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) February 12, 2022

 

[Diddy Kong]

MkLeo is playing Corrin and thinks the character is good.

Good offline session with @Maister_SSB Forgot how playing offline felt, started a bit rusty with byleth but ended up adjusting quite well, corrin also seems way better than i thought. People might not know but i started using corrin and i legit think she is really good.

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) February 12, 2022

This will be very interesting. Corrin has been a character that was largely underused , am curious to see where this will go

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

MuteAce's Peach and Palutena matchup charts

Muted. pic.twitter.com/6pss1XBgMO

— Stride | MuteAce 竜 (@MuteAce) February 12, 2022

Edit: MkLeo's Byleth matchup chart

MkLeo considers Byleth in the top 20-25 area.

 

[Djmarcus44]

Assuming the side b list is ordered like the other lists, ESAM is 3/3 for sleeping on Gunner's moves. Although he knows Gunner's missiles are good, it should be on the top row. It is way too versatile to be ranked below moves like Brawler's suplex or ZSS's plasma whip. Gunner's arm rocket should be a tier higher because it has great frame data which allows the move to be an escape option from juggling or shield pressure. Gunner's fair should be in the top tier because it has great combo potential, and it sets up into kill moves. The transcendant property of the move combined with gundash mobility keep this move from being a worse version of Villager/Isabelle fair.

Also, lets not ignore the fact that Gunner has the highest ranked solo main of the miis. In addition, Katakiri has beaten ESAM's brawler in multiple sets with Gunner. The character has a decent case to enter the high tier conversation.

 

[SKX31]

Wanted: St. Valentin Edition results (303 entrants):

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/sr2zt8
Notes:

• Gluttony got 17th after losing to Mr. E and Mezcaul, which is a bit weird. He looked entirely on form just yesterday and won Dojo 16, so maybe it was fatigue or something along those lines? Sisqui did get 3rd after getting 2nd at Dojo, so not sure if I should say it's fully on that - although several others who placed highly at Dojo underperformed here like Raflow and AndresFN... so maybe?
• Think this is eMass' first EU win - while this is not a major per OrionStats' definion (it qualifies as a superregional - Category 3+) I'd still say that this is a major achievement for him. Think he's the first Saudi / Middle Eastern player to win a tournament of this scale.
• Other great performances include Flow - who went on a rampage this tournament and vastly improved on his 9th at the recent LOSC Fighter; Homika, who forced Sisqui to Game 5 in the Losers Semis and whose 4th is a significant improvement over his average performance at 2021's French nationals; and Amiin, whose 9th place is a major improvement over 49th at Wanted #3.
• Was a really weird Grand Final apparently - Flow 3-0'ed eMass, eMass 3-0'd him back. Especially weird since the WB Final set went 3-2 eMass.