Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Hydreigonfan01]

Alternis 3-2 DM
He now goes on to fight Dabuz.

All three of the best , Riddles, AxiomXL, and Red Oolong, are out at 33rd. That... kinda stings for the character.

Edit: Marss 2-3 Tilde

Kazuya's neutral and disadvantage is really rough so the character is inconsistent.

 

[Nekoo]

All three of the best , Riddles, AxiomXL, and Red Oolong, are out at 33rd. That... kinda stings for the character.

It does, but I think for a character like Kazuya that is very recent. I still think three of them at 33rd in such a big tournament like Smashcon is still fairly impressive!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

More upsets
Mistake 3-1 Cosmos
Lima 3-0 Kurama
Pink Fresh 3-2 Elegant
Zomba 3-1 yonni

The Bayonetta players are going wild.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Icymist 3-0 ESAM . Eliminating him at 17th.

Jakal 3-0 Light to tet into Top 8 winners side.

Whoever says Wolf still does not have sauce needs a wake-up call

 

[Sucumbio]

Oooo Esam gonna be feeling that loss for a while...

 

[NairWizard]

I know sparg0 is the favorite to win this at this point, but I really hope that Maister can make the upset and take the tournament. Must be exhausting to lose every tournament to Mexican sword players + Marss.

 

[Cheryl~]

I'd like to add that there was actually only two Kazuya reps in top 48. Red Oolong dropped Kaz to continue maining Wii Fit Trainer pretty quickly after his week 1 run with him at Xanadu, so there are actually three Wii Fit reps instead of three Kazuyas.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Tilde 3-1 Cosmos to make it into top 8.

The Falco agenda has risen up boys and girls!!!

 

[The_Bookworm]

Top 8


Winner's
Kola vs Maister
Sparg0 vs Jakal

Loser's
Marss vs Light
MVD vs Tilde


All three spacies in top 8.
Maister has a real chance to finally win a major if things go well.

Edit: Also, Cosmos rolled so much during his set vs Tilde, that he was getting accidental Foresights that he wasn't prepared for.

I'd like to add that there was actually only two Kazuya reps in top 48. Red Oolong dropped Kaz to continue maining Wii Fit Trainer pretty quickly after his week 1 run with him at Xanadu, so there are actually three Wii Fit reps instead of three Kazuyas.

Yeah, I noticed that when looking at the VODs.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Apparently Cosmos's rolling was because his shield button was broken, so when he held shield and put his thumb off the trigger, he would still be shielding so when he would dash he'd do a roll.

Edit: This is the worst ESAM placement since EVO 2019 where he got 25th. did not have a good day today with DM also getting 33rd.

 

[duxx]

Super Smash Con: Fall Fest (Herndon, VA) (769 entrants)
1st: Moist | Light
2nd: Sparg0 , , , out to Light x2 ()
3rd: SSG | Maister , out to Sparg0 (, , ) and Light ()
4th: TG | MVD , out to Kola () and Light ()
5th: Moist | Kola , out to Maister ( ) and Light ()
5th: Jakal , out to Sparg0 (, , ) and MVD ()
7th: NPT | Tilde , out to Maister ( ) and MVD ()
7th: Panda | Marss , out to Tilde () and Light ()

posting thoughts later

 

[toonito]

holy ****

congrats light SSC winner

stole a major from

 

[NotLiquid]

Offline Ultimate is back and here to stay

 

[Nobie]

I'm amazed at how the Cloud-Fox matchup can look awful for both characters simultaneously.

 

[SKX31]

Super Smash Con: Fall Fest (Herndon, VA) (769 entrants)
1st: Moist | Light
2nd: Sparg0 , , , out to Light x2 ()
3rd: SSG | Maister , out to Sparg0 (, , ) and Light ()
4th: TG | MVD , out to Kola () and Light ()
5th: Moist | Kola , out to Maister ( ) and Light ()
5th: Jakal , out to Sparg0 (, , ) and MVD ()
7th: NPT | Tilde , out to Maister ( ) and MVD ()
7th: Panda | Marss , out to Tilde () and Light ()

posting thoughts later

I wanna highlight Light's loser's bracket run because holy did he survive a lot of close sets:

• Pink Fresh 3 - 1
• Marss 3 - 2
• Kola 3 - 2
• MVD 3 - 2
• Maister 3 - 2
• Sparg0 3 - 0, 3 - 2 on the reset.

That's five out of seven sets that went the entire way, and he survived them all.

holy ****

congrats light SSC winner

stole a major from

While Sparg0 went Cloud throughout the entire Grands, he does not view the Aegis - Fox matchup as favorable (he sees it as "Even or loses" while Cloud wins the Fox MU in his opinion) so that's presumably the main reason why he didn't go Aegis at all during Grands. Also, he had a decently bumpy ride to Grands (in particular, Jakal's Wolf came really close to putting Sparg0 at a 0-2 situation) so that might've contributed.

That said, I'm chalking the first grand finals set to Sparg0 not being ready at all for Light's agressive style of play. He did adjust and came really close to winning it all (two whiffed Finishing Touches that were close to hitting - and thus turning the tides - for instance), but Light made the most out of the small openings that presented themselves. The same can be said for Light's other sets - especially the Kola and Maister sets. Those went down to really small margins.

Also, Light's shaken off all rust, it's safe to say that.

 

[Idon]

Let's ****ing go, Light.

Man's a pleasure to watch on-screen and it's always a joy to see him perform well.

 

[Rizen]

Wow, congrats to Light! I thought Spargo had this in the bag but Light pulled through.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Super Smash Con: Smash Fest (769 Entrants)

1st: Light
2nd: Sparg0
3rd: Maister
4th: MVD
5th: Kola
5th: Jakal
7th: Marss
7th: Tilde

Spoiler: Top 24

9th: Pink Fresh
9th: Cosmos
9th: Mistake
9th: Lima

13th: ApolloKage
13th: IcyMist
13th: WaDi
13th: Aaron

17th: Phuzix
17th: ESAM
17th: Dabuz
17th: PkChris
17th: Zomba
17th: Sinji
17th: Elegant
17th: Kurama

Spoiler: Top 48

25th: BigBoss
25th: yonni
25th: Suarez
25th: John Numbers
25th: Mercury
25th: Frostbyte
25th: Alternis
25th: Synergy

33rd: Red Oolong
33rd: Frozen
33rd: Riddles
33rd: Chugs
33rd: Puppeh
33rd: kurshaun
33rd: AoS
33rd: DM
33rd: Grayson
33rd: Pelca
33rd: Tony Pajamas
33rd: Cyro
33rd: Mr.Zercon
33rd: Peanut
33rd: NickDistrict14
33rd: Axiom XL

First major win for Light, and a very strong boost for as a character since Japan is in limbo right now.

Other things to note:

• After over a year of stagnation in favor of some of the other characters, bounces back this tournament with MVD placing 4th in this tournament, while ApolloKage got 13th while taking sets off of Sinji and ESAM.
• Tilde pushes the Falco agenda this tournament with the highest placement the character has seen in this game. All three spacies are represented in top 8 this tournament.
• You thought Mistake winning SSB4 singles is all we are going to see with the character this weekend? No. Lima and Mistake both obtains 9th this tournament, the highest placement of Bayo in Ultimate at a major. These two have returned only for about a month and already making some noise in tournaments.
• IcyMist, willing to repeat past history of her placing high in Smash Cons, obtains 13th this tourney defeating players like LingLing, Riddles, and ESAM to get this far. Since quiK and Joker are relatively inactive right now, or at least they are not really participating in larger events, this is likely the best showing for Samus for a while.
• A non-VoiD got 17th. Neat!
• We all saw both and get a small amount of time in the sun back at Riptide. Now its 's turn, with a 25th and 33rd placement by Alternis and Peanut, respectively, the latter of which getting knocked into loser's early to get that placement. Alternis put on a show, defeating naitosharp and DM (he won the Mac vs Pika matchup) to get this far.
• This tournament kinda shows why ESAM is such a wild card. He could take sets off the best player in the world, winning Glitch 8.5, or he can get upset by ApolloKage and IcyMist to get 17th instead. Combined with DM getting 33rd, Pikachu as a character didn't carry its momentum well into this tournament.
• For about to lose his title of "most recent DLC character" tomorrow, the character kinda underperformed expectations (given that quite a bit of people, mainly the general spectators, believe that he is crazy good), with both Riddles and AxiomXL falling at 33rd. It is kinda hard to tell if this character will get better or worse when the meta progresses. He is not even that recent anymore, given that he has been out for over 3, almost 4 months. He is one of the most polarizing character designs in Smash history.

Also, shoutouts to Pink Fresh getting a 6 straight win loser's bracket run to get 9th, notably defeating Pelca and Elegant to do so. MDVA represent!

I'm amazed at how the Cloud-Fox matchup can look awful for both characters simultaneously.

It was kinda like that in SSB4 funnily enough. Nothing much has changed about the matchup moving into Ultimate.
A lot of spaghetti has involved in the making of that grand finals for both players, but Light's punish game and grab fishing were both amazing.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Kazuya will only get worse because his weaknesses are so glaring, and his kill combos aren't going to get more powerful as time goes by thanks to DI mix ups.

Kazuya is Ganondorf but better. He's got more power than any character in Smash history, but has 4 extra frames of jump frames, a terrible easy to gimp recovery, no air movement (which means bad disadvantage), and is heavily execution based.

I think he's a good character overall, but needs a secondary to handle his (many) bad match ups. He's certainly not in the conversation for being a top tier character like many thought, and it's best to see him as many people see Luigi, but even more lopsided.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I don't think I've ever seen so many Game 5s in a single Top 8 at a major. Tilde v. MVD, Jakal v. MVD, and Sparg0 v. Light GF were literally the only sets that ended at game 3/4. And not gonna lie, it was because of that I was practically shaking throughout nearly all of this Top 8, especially during moments like the last stock situations between Maister v. Kola and Light v. Sparg0.

That sort of thing - in addition to MKLeo and Tweek not being there - kind of gave me a new feeling of anxiety that I haven't experienced in quite a while. That feeling of basically not knowing at all what to expect... It really did feel like practically anyone in the Top 8 was capable of winning the whole thing, and that level of unpredictability is always welcome in my book.

Also props to Marss, Sparg0, and Maister for performing as well as they did even when playing/practicing for NASB events simultaneously.

 

[Minordeth]

Fantastic tournament. Spargo has absolute nerves of steel. None of the games he lost were shut outs, and he brought back sets where he was down 1-2.

But of course, Light wins the prize for unshakeable will. Down in multiple game fives, with an SD in game 5 against MVD even, and this man made a habit out of raw upsmash reads to finish sets.

Kazuya will only get worse because his weaknesses are so glaring, and his kill combos aren't going to get more powerful as time goes by thanks to DI mix ups.

I'm assuming you are talking about DI "wiggling" on EWGF.

True story: DI "mixups" on a move with 50 frames of hitstun don't actually matter. You can react to the actual trajectory of the character, jump late, and still get FH FF Nair into imagination.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Super Smash Con: Fall Fest (Herndon, VA) (769 entrants)
1st: Moist | Light
2nd: Sparg0 , , , out to Light x2 ()
3rd: SSG | Maister , out to Sparg0 (, , ) and Light ()
4th: TG | MVD , out to Kola () and Light ()
5th: Moist | Kola , out to Maister ( ) and Light ()
5th: Jakal , out to Sparg0 (, , ) and MVD ()
7th: NPT | Tilde , out to Maister ( ) and MVD ()
7th: Panda | Marss , out to Tilde () and Light ()

posting thoughts later

Since when did Sparg0 use Mega Man?

 

[SapphSabre777]

Super Smash Con: Smash Fest (769 Entrants)

1st: Light
2nd: Sparg0
3rd: Maister
4th: MVD
5th: Kola
5th: Jakal
7th: Marss
7th: Tilde

Spoiler: Top 24

9th: Pink Fresh
9th: Cosmos
9th: Mistake
9th: Lima

13th: ApolloKage
13th: IcyMist
13th: WaDi
13th: Aaron

17th: Phuzix
17th: ESAM
17th: Dabuz
17th: PkChris
17th: Zomba
17th: Sinji
17th: Elegant
17th: Kurama

Spoiler: Top 48

25th: BigBoss
25th: yonni
25th: Suarez
25th: John Numbers
25th: Mercury
25th: Frostbyte
25th: Alternis
25th: Synergy

33rd: Red Oolong
33rd: Frozen
33rd: Riddles
33rd: Chugs
33rd: Puppeh
33rd: kurshaun
33rd: AoS
33rd: DM
33rd: Grayson
33rd: Pelca
33rd: Tony Pajamas
33rd: Cyro
33rd: Mr.Zercon
33rd: Peanut
33rd: NickDistrict14
33rd: Axiom XL

First major win for Light, and a very strong boost for as a character since Japan is in limbo right now.

Other things to note:

• After over a year of stagnation in favor of some of the other characters, bounces back this tournament with MVD placing 4th in this tournament, while ApolloKage got 13th while taking sets off of Sinji and ESAM.
• Tilde pushes the Falco agenda this tournament with the highest placement the character has seen in this game. All three spacies are represented in top 8 this tournament.
• You thought Mistake winning SSB4 singles is all we are going to see with the character this weekend? No. Lima and Mistake both obtains 9th this tournament, the highest placement of Bayo in Ultimate at a major. These two have returned only for about a month and already making some noise in tournaments.
• IcyMist, willing to repeat past history of her placing high in Smash Cons, obtains 13th this tourney defeating players like LingLing, Riddles, and ESAM to get this far. Since quiK and Joker are relatively inactive right now, or at least they are not really participating in larger events, this is likely the best showing for Samus for a while.
• A non-VoiD got 17th. Neat!
• We all saw both and get a small amount of time in the sun back at Riptide. Now its 's turn, with a 25th and 33rd placement by Alternis and Peanut, respectively, the latter of which getting knocked into loser's early to get that placement. Alternis put on a show, defeating naitosharp and DM (he won the Mac vs Pika matchup) to get this far.
• This tournament kinda shows why ESAM is such a wild card. He could take sets off the best player in the world, winning Glitch 8.5, or he can get upset by ApolloKage and IcyMist to get 17th instead. Combined with DM getting 33rd, Pikachu as a character didn't carry its momentum well into this tournament.
• For about to lose his title of "most recent DLC character" tomorrow, the character kinda underperformed expectations (given that quite a bit of people, mainly the general spectators, believe that he is crazy good), with both Riddles and AxiomXL falling at 33rd. It is kinda hard to tell if this character will get better or worse when the meta progresses. He is not even that recent anymore, given that he has been out for over 3, almost 4 months. He is one of the most polarizing character designs in Smash history.

Also, shoutouts to Pink Fresh getting a 6 straight win loser's bracket run to get 9th, notably defeating Pelca and Elegant to do so. MDVA represent!



It was kinda like that in SSB4 funnily enough. Nothing much has changed about the matchup moving into Ultimate.
A lot of spaghetti has involved in the making of that grand finals for both players, but Light's punish game and grab fishing were both amazing.

Since when did Sparg0 use Mega Man?

Sparg0 never used Mega Man, it was an accidental pick going from one game to another since Cloud and Mega Man are close together on the CSS, lol. Regardless, Smash Con Fall Fest was simply magical for Ultimate, and Light's run overall was simply an amazing way to end the 12.0.0 days. Tomorrow/Today begins the twilight of Ultimate, with Sora, and I for one am excited.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So, another top 8 where we both have and in the bracket (Sparg0 getting 2nd and Kola getting 5th respectively) with other players with those characters doing well in top 48. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these two characters have appeared in every top 8 of a major since Summit.

Light certainly played out of his mind with , I haven't seen him play this good in a long time (Beating Maister who has been Light's bracket demon for a while certainly showcases that) and every set he played he had super close game 5's. Fox's punish game and advantage state is so strong it's nuts, especially thanks to Fox's very fast mobility on the ground combined with Light's incredible aggression.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Proud of doing so well

 

[blackghost]

Kazuya's neutral and disadvantage is really rough so the character is inconsistent.

At least for riddle match it wasnt really the issue. he just missed his conversions and he missed sveral electrics and got wind god fist when he wanted electric instead. kazuya matches even when they are 3-0 come down to execution on electrics miss the 2 frame window and kills become whiffs. I dont know why people are so ready to bail on kazuya. the charatcer isnt even close to done.

mistake and lima both played alright. mistake's weaknesses on the mental side of the game shown through on his last match.
lima just had a brtual bracket for bayonetta. runing into mvd is a near impossible matchup for her. theres no good reason for a top level snake to lose to a top level bayonetta.
These two placed the same i still dont think they are even close to the same level of bayo tho.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

OrionStats update

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[The_Bookworm]

OrionStats update

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As expected, also rose up this weekend, now with 13.5 points. is now once again the lowest ranked character in the TTS, but it does have 12 points. The point floor is very high in comparison to past seasons, so this is cool to see.

Bernard's Loop also gave an explanation on why has so many points: it is mainly a lot of scattered regional results, even as far as in the Middle East.

One other thing to note is that there is currently a HUGE point gap between , at #37 with 115.5 points, and , at #38 with 83.5 points. For the most part, the points within characters increases at relatively steady increments, but this gap is pretty glaring.

 

[NotLiquid]

Min Min results are finally starting to accelerate. She's made a pretty massive leap between the last two updates. Funnily that sort of feels like it mirrors her online metrics, she didn't particularly start reaching commonality until some time after Steve came out, but now her offline statistics is starting to align with the later wi-fi era numbers. She really feels like a late meta character in some respects, only starting to show her true potential once players learn to diminish her particular achilles heel.

You could argue that sort of goes without saying since people are well aware of Protobanham's results at this point, but on one hand you can only glean into that from the perspective of Japan being a bit of a vacuum for the time being. Conversely, just having a cursory glance at several of Pink Fresh's losing sets throughout the last few majors he's attended, even those with set counts that don't get resolved in game 3/5 tiebreakers, provide a fairly illuminating picture; if a player who has rarely ever been entertained as being in contention for top 15 is at a point with this character where he can either regularly match stock deficits in games or take top players like Leo and Cosmos into game 5 situations, often being damned by mere misplays, it's worth asking whether there's a sleeping giant in the wait.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Min Min results are finally starting to accelerate. She's made a pretty massive leap between the last two updates. Funnily that sort of feels like it mirrors her online metrics, she didn't particularly start reaching commonality until some time after Steve came out, but now her offline statistics is starting to align with the later wi-fi era numbers. She really feels like a late meta character in some respects, only starting to show her true potential once players learn to diminish her particular achilles heel.

You could argue that sort of goes without saying since people are well aware of Protobanham's results at this point, but on one hand you can only glean into that from the perspective of Japan being a bit of a vacuum for the time being. Conversely, just having a cursory glance at several of Pink Fresh's losing sets throughout the last few majors he's attended, even those with set counts that don't get resolved in game 3/5 tiebreakers, provide a fairly illuminating picture; if a player who has rarely ever been entertained as being in contention for top 15 is at a point with this character where he can either regularly match stock deficits in games or take top players like Leo and Cosmos into game 5 situations, often being damned by mere misplays, it's worth asking whether there's a sleeping giant in the wait.

One of the big things to look at is that Pink Fresh was one of the first players to put on the map and he's doing the exact same with . Obviously Pink Fresh isn't a top 10 player or anything, but he seems like a solid top 30-50 player rn.

EVO 2024 GFs confirmed to be Min Min dittos

 

[toonito]

OrionStats update

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biggest jump from 10/14: +7
biggest drop from 10/14: -5

for those curious: +4 from 10/14

One other thing to note is that there is currently a HUGE point gap between , at #37 with 115.5 points, and , at #38 with 83.5 points. For the most part, the points within characters increases at relatively steady increments, but this gap is pretty glaring.

other big gaps between characters:

#1 & #2 = 82.75 points apart
#2 & #3 = 40.5 points apart
#4 & #5 = 46.5 points apart
#7 & #8 = 30 points apart

 

[The_Bookworm]

13.0.0 is officially out, but the patch notes have not arrived yet....

Edit: Nvm.
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/56516

 

[Gunla]

A thread will be up in a bit for V13.0.0.

EDIT: Here we are. I will be routinely checking around and TREMENDOUSLY appreciate input to demystify some of the numerics around the patch as per usual.

 

[NotLiquid]

"Low Tier Buff" patch basically

 

[MrGameguycolor]

YOOOO!!!

Looking good Patch 13.0.0!

 

[Arthur97]

Nice. Pity Ganondorf didn't get touched, but at least they did something for Mac.

 

[BlazGreen]

If the buffs are significant enough then poor will be left in the dust.

 

[NairWizard]

Thinkaman , this is your patch! Incineroar, Little Mac, Isabelle, and Jigglypuff buffs! Let's hear about it!

 

[Kiligar]

My expectations were low, and they didn’t disappoint. Because my expectations were low. Really, really, low.

 

[Patriot Duck]

You can fastfall Sora's fair 1 and nair 1 to avoid the "hop" on hit. If the combo counter is to be believed, this allows for some nice air-to-ground combos.