Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[NotLiquid]

Izaw makes a distinction between believing that while he largely thinks of the character as just bad/low tier, he finds the character's theoretical MU spread is the worst in the game, making a potentially legitimate argument for the worst. He also clarifies that "this is Ultimate, so being bad doesn't mean he can't win tournaments or tourney games".

On the surface, there's some decent arguments made in the video. I'm summarizing only a few of them so I recommend giving the video a watch. The big focus is obviously on the neutral game, which he describes as "non-existent", and the worst in the game. Steve's hitbox data is such that he can get outspaced by even short-ranged characters such as Mario, and whenever he does get spaced, Steve's best options at punishing are attacks like Dash Attack or a grab which don't really lead to any of his best options. Steve plays such a zero-sum game when it comes to mining that he doesn't really "win" neutral even when he starts to camp or have some semblance of stage control; in some cases even putting himself in disadvantage to recover lost resources, or gain buffs that largely don't make a large dent in his output. There's some actual counterplay points brought up against the Minecart shield trap, as well as DTilt (ESAM on stream a while ago claimed this move was one of the best in the game since it's plus on block, despite the fact that you can just jump out of it on shieldstun), and there's some arguments thrown against up Smash's potency as far as anti-airs is concerned (you can attack through its hitbox or fast-fall neutral air dodge for a hard punish).

Disadvantage is also brought up as a big weakness; Elytra having a hitbox at startup means he's susceptible to characters who edgeguard with off-stage counters, Anvil is decent but being a projectile means a lot of characters will be able to beat it out, Steve's weight being below average is also a pretty bad thing for his archetype, he lacks good ledge get-up options, and using blocks to break landings is a double edged sword that can easily backfire for him.

His advantage state is where Steve works at his best, but Izaw argues that his combo game is susceptible to proper SDI due to the specificity of his combo routes. His combo game isn't particularly flexible since as far as we know he can only really initiate combos from close-range. His corner pressure is also not great due to his mobility strats, meaning characters can just go over him pretty safely to reset into neutral.

It's certainly not a badly reasoned video. I think the sticking point really comes down to whether you value the logic of "at top level, what difference does it make that Steve has crazy good combo damage if he's not allowed to play neutral", or if you largely feel that even having devastating damage routes such as that means he can't be lower than mid-tier. The real salient point Izaw brings up is that Steve is inconsistent, which is not a good thing at top level play.

 

[blackghost]

does anyone have the video of the first to ten between esam and the steve?

that outcome just baffles me and i need to see if some matches ended due to some cheese or failed execution.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

does anyone have the video of the first to ten between esam and the steve?

that outcome just baffles me and i need to see if some matches ended due to some cheese or failed execution.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/786464185 Starts at the 1 hr 25 minute mark.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Izaw made this.

What the heck is that sword hitbox with Falco?!

 

[StrangeKitten]

Izaw seems to share my sentiments that disadvantage is truly rough for Steve. As a point of comparison, it's a bad time for Incineroar, but at least Incineroar has good enough range, armor on some moves, Revenge, and surprisingly, better air stats. I'm not sure what Steve can do; he kinda just has to run or jump away. Maybe then use anvil/blocks/minecart... but the difference here is, where Incineroar is getting damage on you or a Revenge, Steve is placing some blocks that are just there for a bit. If he's far enough away to go for mincecart or anvil, those are probably reactable. Especially offline. And Steve's losing resources in doing so.

Still though, as I stated a while back, I don't see how Steve can flat-out be the worst when Ganondorf, Little Mac, and a good handful of others exist in their current state. I'm open to changing this opinion. All depends on where the Steve meta goes in like, a year. But as of now, I have trouble seeing a character that has kill power roughly along the lines of the two I mentioned (bar their more extreme options that you aren't likely to get), but also a recovery that can go so far, and the combo game of say, Squirtle, to be low tier, let alone worse than Mac or Ganon. It'll be interesting to see whether my opinion shifts and which way it'll go if it does.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Delete this please

 

[Rocketjay8]

Izaw seems to share my sentiments that disadvantage is truly rough for Steve. As a point of comparison, it's a bad time for Incineroar, but at least Incineroar has good enough range, armor on some moves, Revenge, and surprisingly, better air stats. I'm not sure what Steve can do; he kinda just has to run or jump away. Maybe then use anvil/blocks/minecart... but the difference here is, where Incineroar is getting damage on you or a Revenge, Steve is placing some blocks that are just there for a bit. If he's far enough away to go for mincecart or anvil, those are probably reactable. Especially offline. And Steve's losing resources in doing so.

Still though, as I stated a while back, I don't see how Steve can flat-out be the worst when Ganondorf, Little Mac, and a good handful of others exist in their current state. I'm open to changing this opinion. All depends on where the Steve meta goes in like, a year. But as of now, I have trouble seeing a character that has kill power roughly along the lines of the two I mentioned (bar their more extreme options that you aren't likely to get), but also a recovery that can go so far, and the combo game of say, Squirtle, to be low tier, let alone worse than Mac or Ganon. It'll be interesting to see whether my opinion shifts and which way it'll go if it does.

It's just like what Terotrous said about why he thinks better on explosive characters like Mac and Ganon instead of mediocre characters like prepatch Isabelle and Lucario.

Thinkaman already gave a very long response to this but I wanted to add in my thoughts because I was also on the "Lucario is at least bottom 3" train pre-patch.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that there's a pretty big difference between characters like Ganondorf and Little Mac and Lucario. Ganon and Mac have extreme strengths. Ganon does like a billion damage on everything he does and his smash attacks are extremely scary. Mac has actually insane frame data and tons of armor everywhere. Of course, they also have extreme weaknesses that most of the cast can exploit fairly easily. However, the fact that they have such immense power in their kit, even balanced out by weakness, gives them at least a little room for optimism. I don't dispute that these characters are still well-towards the bottom of the roster, but they at least have a little upset or doubles potential if nothing else.

When we come to a character like Lucario (or Isabelle, I was also on the Isabelle hate train before she got her buffs), they don't have anywhere near this kind of explosive power, instead they're kind of mediocre at best and still have a lot of flaws. Like Lucario for example has very bad frame data and just no real standout tools in his kit. With high aura, he's maybe an average character, but he only gets to be this character for a small portion of the game, and every time any member of the rest of the cast gets buffs it's an implicit nerf for him since it means he dies faster. Unlike Mac and Ganon, who might have some use in doubles, I can't see any reason why anyone would ever pick Lucario. This is why I tend to put the characters who just seem mediocre and uninspiring lower than those who have strengths but are terribly flawed.

If you want more proof that it's better to be a flawed but explosive character than a mediocre one, just look at Smash 4, because Lucario was an explosive character in that game. At high aura, he had Ganon-level power if not moreso. Not surprisingly, he was a vastly better character in that game, generally considered to be around upper mid-tier, and almost everyone was terrified to fight him. No amount of buffs that he has gotten in Ult have even come close to making up for the loss of Side B killing you at 50%. Even though I don't think this design was really healthy for the game, I think he needs to get at least a little bit of that power back. Maybe command grab could kill around 80 at high aura instead of its current 120 or so. He needs the fear that that move causes to help the rest of his kit work.

Granted, there is a lot of optimization for Steve, but he already has a ton of flaws with his move work like how up smash, cart, and anvil can be out hitboxed by other character's moves, or how much he gets outranged by some characters with his short range and low mobility stats.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Esam wasn't the only pro player who lost to a Steve in a first to ten today. In other news it seems Sparg0 is gonna pick up Steve.

Beat LeoN 10-8 in the ft10 with steve! My steve is slowly improving, cn't wait to play him next tournament

— FaZe Sparg0 (@Sparg0ssb) October 31, 2020

 

[Rocketjay8]

I am really not a fan of Steve's crafting mechanic. If one of your tool breaks and you are on high percent with a diamond, you are forced to either craft the diamond tools (which is a complete waste since you probably are going to die in a few seconds) or you suck it up and deal with having to use your fists for the job (Which nerfs some of Steve's moves and mining even worst). The worst part of the crafting mechanic is that you can't choose which material to craft tools from. You are forced to use gold even if you have the correct amount of iron which could've been used for powered minecart.

Let's also talk about the inventory bar,, I hate it. You don't really know how many materials that you have for stuff like diamonds, gold. Redstone doesn't even appear on your toolbar. This also goes to the blocks as well. I have no idea why they made the inventory interface the way it is. Why isn't it like Minecraft where there is the item on the inventory bar with a counter on the items to see the amount of it? It just makes Steve unnecessarily difficult to play.

 

[meleebrawler]

I am really not a fan of Steve's crafting mechanic. If one of your tool breaks and you are on high percent with a diamond, you are forced to either craft the diamond tools (which is a complete waste since you probably are going to die in a few seconds) or you suck it up and deal with having to use your fists for the job (Which nerfs some of Steve's moves and mining even worst). The worst part of the crafting mechanic is that you can't choose which material to craft tools from. You are forced to use gold even if you have the correct amount of iron which could've been used for powered minecart.

Let's also talk about the inventory bar,, I hate it. You don't really know how many materials that you have for stuff like diamonds, gold. Redstone doesn't even appear on your toolbar. This also goes to the blocks as well. I have no idea why they made the inventory interface the way it is. Why isn't it like Minecraft where there is the item on the inventory bar with a counter on the items to see the amount of it? It just makes Steve unnecessarily difficult to play.

I'd like to see eight Steves trying to squint at such detailed info on a squished display.

I have frankly never been in a situation where I didn't have redstone when I needed it. It's a relatively common material with situational use. Powered minecart is common but only uses one piece at a time (you almost always run out of gold first), with the only other use being gunpowder trails for TNT ledgetraps. And if you have enough gold to make weapons out of them, you're probably doing a pretty good job of fending off the enemy in the first place.

I'm not even sure if it's possible to have more than one diamond on hand at a time. You'd probably be wasting a ton of materials just to get there, since the mining list (which is very much not random) appears to reset when you die.

You could also research which stages use the shovel to mine, since that isn't used for any attack.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Updated Min Min MU chart by Dabuz:

pic.twitter.com/yCnU1rJytk

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) October 29, 2020

Changes from the previous MU chart:

from Even/Winning to Losing
from Even/Losing to Losing
from Winning to Losing

from Losing to Even/Losing
from Even/Winning to Even/Losing
from Even to Even/Losing

from Losing to Even
from Even/Losing to Even
from Winning to Even
from Even/Winning to Even

from Even to Even/Winning
from Winning to Even/Winning
from Even/Losing to Even/Winning

from Even/Losing to Winning
from Even to Winning
from Even/Winning to Winning

Link to explanations: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/785778753 (Starts at 2:03:29)

 

[bc1910]

Updated Min Min MU chart by Dabuz:

pic.twitter.com/yCnU1rJytk

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) October 29, 2020

Changes from the previous MU chart:

from Even/Winning to Losing
from Even/Losing to Losing
from Winning to Losing

from Losing to Even/Losing
from Even/Winning to Even/Losing
from Even to Even/Losing

from Losing to Even
from Even/Losing to Even
from Winning to Even
from Even/Winning to Even

from Even to Even/Winning
from Winning to Even/Winning
from Even/Losing to Even/Winning

from Even/Losing to Winning
from Even to Winning
from Even/Winning to Winning

Link to explanations: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/785778753 (Starts at 2:03:29)

I go back and forth on this MU for Greninja. Min Min’s range and ability to control ground space is a massive pain for him to deal with, his aerial approaches are telegraphed and punishable if the Min Min is good at parrying, and Megawatt Nair is generally just obnoxious. On the other hand Greninja can really wreck Min Min in disadvantage, his poor OoS game doesn’t really matter given how Min Min operates (no one can really punish her OoS midrange), and he edgeguards her hard while avoiding edgeguards himself pretty well due to Shadow Sneak and the ability to go really low. I feel like it’s quite a messy MU that finds its way to being even overall.

By the way, does anyone know what’s happening with Small Battlefield in terms of stage legality? Seems like most online tournaments are sticking with PS2. I guess we might get a more definitive answer when offline tournaments start up again.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Glutonny put out his tier-list:

The list is there for the whole video and for this part he talks about top and high-tier and mid to bottom tier in the next video. It is in French, though.
Min-Min and Steve are not ranked.

The biggest outlier is here but as stated above, he will talk about those lower-ranked chars in the next video (in French).

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'm not even sure if it's possible to have more than one diamond on hand at a time.

It is possible actually. You can store up to 3 Gold and 5 Diamond on hand. If anyone is interested in how Steve's mining and resources work then this doc explains everything.

 

[DougEfresh]

By the way, does anyone know what’s happening with Small Battlefield in terms of stage legality? Seems like most online tournaments are sticking with PS2. I guess we might get a more definitive answer when offline tournaments start up again.

I think what I've heard is that some tournaments aren't able to use small battlefield because of issues with smash gg in some way (at least that's the case with the xenowifi weeklies that's mostly tri-state), but DNA is another wifi weekly mainly with tri-state players and I've seen them use SBF as a legal stage since it was introduced. I doubt there's going to be problems with its actual legality as a competitive stage in tournaments, but what from I know other scenes and TO's haven't picked it up as quickly because of some type of administrative difficulties with the stage and smash gg, which are probably exacerbated quite a bit due to the pandemic if I had to gander a guess. Other than that, maybe people have just gotten so comfortable with the current stage list that some tourneys simply haven't had any reason to include it yet. Can't see why it wouldn't become more mainstream once offline events pick back up again, though time will tell as you said.

 

[Frihetsanka]

By the way, does anyone know what’s happening with Small Battlefield in terms of stage legality? Seems like most online tournaments are sticking with PS2. I guess we might get a more definitive answer when offline tournaments start up again.

Most locals seem to run it, most online tournaments not run by SmashGG also seem to run it. SmashGG only recently introduced a ruleset with Small Battlefield, in general SmashGG is not very flexible when it comes to stage lists unfortunately, seems like you can only choose between a few pre-set rulesets. But the stage is near 100% legal in my opinion. It's different enough from PS2 in practice.

 

[Rizen]

I have nothing against small BF but it should never be used as a substitute for PS2. Small BF is a small level that discourages camping and PS2 is a large level that encourages it. They're very different. If anything they should remove Yoshi's Story as it functions very similarly to BF as a Tri-plat.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I have nothing against small BF but it should never be used as a substitute for PS2. Small BF is a small level that discourages camping and PS2 is a large level that encourages it. They're very different. If anything they should remove Yoshi's Story as it functions very similarly to BF as a Tri-plat.

If they remove Yoshi's Story they should also remove Kalos, since it's quite similar to Final Destination. But, given that we can run 9 stages, I think it's probably best to stick with both Story and Kalos for now.

 

[Minix0]

I have nothing against small BF but it should never be used as a substitute for PS2. Small BF is a small level that discourages camping and PS2 is a large level that encourages it. They're very different. If anything they should remove Yoshi's Story as it functions very similarly to BF as a Tri-plat.

But we have multiple stages that encourage camping and very few that don't. Small Battlefield being a replacement is by and large not necessarily a bad thing. Who wants to watch a set that goes PS2 > Kalos > Battlefield? Our stage list really needs more diversity anyway.

 

[Rizen]

But we have multiple stages that encourage camping and very few that don't. Small Battlefield being a replacement is by and large not necessarily a bad thing. Who wants to watch a set that goes PS2 > Kalos > Battlefield? Our stage list really needs more diversity anyway.

Camping we have Kalos, PS2 and TnC. Discouraging camping we have BF, Yoshi's and Lylat. Smashville is a good middle ground. The stage list is pretty well balanced as it is. Like I said, I'm not against Small BF but it shouldn't get rid of PS2; it would make the stage list very skewed.

Edit and there's FD. FD is really it's own thing.

 

[Myollnir]

BF super promotes camping against certain characters (more than just ).
Smashville discourages camping with hazards off, and encourages it with hazards on.

 

[The_Bookworm]

The suggestion Mew2King provided was to make Small Battlefield a starter and PS2 a counterpick.

Due to PS2's larger size, it provides for bigger camping capabilities, so the logic is that SB is a better neutral stage due to its similar stage size with Battlefield.

Everything else would be kept the same: BF, FD, SV, T&C would remain starters; Yoshi's, Lylat, Kalos would remain counterpicks.

So the stagelist would look something like:
Starters
Battlefield, Final Destination, Small Battlefield, Smashville, Town & City
Counterpicks
Pokemon Stadium 2, Kalos Pokemon League, Yoshi's Story, Lylat Cruise

 

[Frihetsanka]

Alternatively, you could use the ruleset the Netherlands is using, with 9 starters.

After several discussions and test runs we present the new Dutch Super Smash Bros Ultimate stagelist. Yoshi's Story and Small Battlefield have been added to the list, no counterpicks and no DSR. This stagelist will be used on all upcoming offline Dutch Smash Ultimate events. pic.twitter.com/kU4ptICMUM

— SmashNL (@Smash_NL) September 15, 2020

But either way Small Battlefield should always be a starter.

 

[Rizen]

BF super promotes camping against certain characters (more than just ).
Smashville discourages camping with hazards off, and encourages it with hazards on.

Speaking as a main, BF's the first stage I ban against sword characters and super heavyweights who generally aren't very campy. Sword characters rule BF and Yoshi's. It's also very good for vortexers who can extend their combos on platforms like Mario.

The suggestion Mew2King provided was to make Small Battlefield a starter and PS2 a counterpick.

Due to PS2's larger size, it provides for bigger camping capabilities, so the logic is that SB is a better neutral stage due to its similar stage size with Battlefield.

Everything else would be kept the same: BF, FD, SV, T&C would remain starters; Yoshi's, Lylat, Kalos would remain counterpicks.

So the stagelist would look something like:
Starters
Battlefield, Final Destination, Small Battlefield, Smashville, Town & City
Counterpicks
Pokemon Stadium 2, Kalos Pokemon League, Yoshi's Story, Lylat Cruise

I don't agree with FD as a starter. IMO it's one of the most polarizing stages because there's no platforms to aid landings. It's an extreme for juggling and landing traps.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Wasn't Mew2King pushing for a complete revamp of our current stage list? He was specifically aiming for more aggressive play to benefit lower tier characters, as well as adding more stages in general iirc. Moving Kalos to CP and Small Battlefield to Starters was part of the equation, but he also did things like adding WarioWare and Castle Siege to the CP section.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I don't agree with FD as a starter. IMO it's one of the most polarizing stages because there's no platforms to aid landings. It's an extreme for juggling and landing traps.

I kinda get where you are getting at, but FD has been a starter pick since Melee, and past versions of FD are significantly bigger in length (and thus more unbalanced) than it is today.
From SSB4 to Ultimate, FD's size has been reduced to be the same as Battlefield, at least in terms of stage length.
It seems very likely that it will remain a starter stage for the entirety of Ultimate.

Wasn't Mew2King pushing for a complete revamp of our current stage list? He was specifically aiming for more aggressive play to benefit lower tier characters, as well as adding more stages in general iirc. Moving Kalos to CP and Small Battlefield to Starters was part of the equation, but he also did things like adding WarioWare and Castle Siege to the CP section.

He did and his ideas are rather radical.

However, there is some issues of allowing WarioWare and Castle Siege.

• In the case for WarioWare, the blastzones are simply too small. The end result is that characters simply die in extremely early percents. Certain characters can simply horizontally latter their opponents to the blastzone effortlessly, such as with Kirby's fair and DK's back air, among a lot of other examples. Both the SSF2 and Project M versions of this stage used to be plagued by this issue, but it has since been fixed in both games thanks to patches. Unfortunately, I don't see Nintendo fixing this.
• In the case for Castle Siege, it is mainly due to its awkward stage layout. Now SSF2 managed to get away with this, and it was legal for the longest time as a counterpick (it is recently banned following a new ruleset). However, slopes appear to be more problematic in Ultimate's engine than with the previous games, which is why Yoshi's Island (Brawl) is banned despite it being perfectly legal in Brawl and SSB3DS. However, if that were the only case, then the stage would've been at least heavily considered. The biggest issue, is that if the camera is panned to the bottom right of the screen, the foreground would be blocking the way of the camera, making it hard to see what it is going on offstage.

 

[Aaron1997]

Top 24 of a Offline Japanese event going on right now

Ft. Tea, Kameme, Kuro, Kome, Paseriman, Rizeasu, HIKARU, Zaki, Gackt and more.

Rizeasu in winners side beating Paseriman with using 1322

 

[Das Koopa]

Paseriman has used 1322 to beat Paseriman , Kameme , Kuro , and Tea . Currently in Grands winners side.

 

[Aaron1997]

Maesuma 4 Top 32 128 entrants

1. Rizeasu
2. Kome
3. Tea
4. Repo
5. Zaki
5. Kuro
7. Gackt
7. Sigma
9. Luminous
9. Kameme
9. Manzoku
9. Paseriman
13. HIKARU
13. Nagare
13. Shirayuki
13. yuzu
17. Masashi
17. DIO
17. Horkeu
17. TK3
17. Shachi
17. Munekin
17. Levi
17. Limeman
25. Yn
25. kisa
25. alice
25. Chichibu Travel
25. Ako
25. Kotatsu
25. Injelly
25. Nikukyu



How about Rizeasu reverse 3-0ing Kome with a pocket Robin?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Seeing a Robin in grand finals, let alone win grand finals makes me extremely happy.

is really slept on. Their speed is awful but their zoning and raw power are top notch. That set really showed how importance patience is with this character. Rizeasu really showed a mastery with the character. Great set all around.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Maesuma 4 Top 32 128 entrants

1. Rizeasu
2. Kome
3. Tea
4. Repo
5. Zaki
5. Kuro
7. Gackt
7. Sigma
9. Luminous
9. Kameme
9. Manzoku
9. Paseriman
13. HIKARU
13. Nagare
13. Shirayuki
13. yuzu
17. Masashi
17. DIO
17. Horkeu
17. TK3
17. Shachi
17. Munekin
17. Levi
17. Limeman
25. Yn
25. kisa
25. alice
25. Chichibu Travel
25. Ako
25. Kotatsu
25. Injelly
25. Nikukyu



How about Rizeasu reverse 3-0ing Kome with a pocket Robin?

Did Rizeasu just... beat up everyone with Mii Brawler? Then reverse 3-0'd Kome with a pocket Robin?
Rizeasu is an absolute complete madman.

Other impressive placements includes ZAKI getting 5th with solo Dedede, and Repo outplacing fellow Mega Man master Kameme at 4th place.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I know Larry Lurr and ESAM both have believed Mii Brawler to be very good for a while. Seems like their opinions are being proven right.

 

[TennisBall]

Brawler has been great for so long and I'm glad someone finally proved it in bracket and showed it to the world.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Looking back at it, the Robin counterpick does add up. Robin may be slower than Marth (and Mii Brawler for that matter), but being able to snipe Shulk's slow disjoints out of the air with lightning fast projectiles (ha-ha) has always been Shulk's achilles heel (if the ROB match-up is anything to go by), and on top of that, Robin has so many kill options off of stray hits that Shield doesn't end up being that big of a deal in the MU. On the flip side, Marth, despite being much faster than Robin, lacks any way to zone-break Shulk's massive reach outside of a really shoddy dash attack.

As for Mii Brawler, I'm hoping to see more of what he can do in an offline environment. One great tournament performance doesn't prove a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it does prove Japan's positive outlook on Mii Brawler wasn't just baseless thinking.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Looking back at it, the Robin counterpick does add up. Robin may be slower than Marth (and Mii Brawler for that matter), but being able to snipe Shulk's slow disjoints out of the air with lightning fast projectiles (ha-ha) has always been Shulk's achilles heel (if the ROB match-up is anything to go by), and has so many kill options off of stray hits that Shield doesn't end up being that big of a deal in the MU. On the flip side, Marth, despite being much faster than Robin, lacks any way to zone-break Shulk's massive reach outside of a really shoddy dash attack.

I feel like and (worth mentioning since ZAKI beat Kome as well) are usually regarded as having alright matchups against the top/high tier swordfighters (despite neither of them being amazing characters overall) by their mains (with being a bit of an exception). Both of them don't have to worry much about getting outboxed up close (something they both struggle with) as pretty much every decent sword character (excluding ) has attacks better suited for mid and long range, which both of these characters can take advantage of.

 

[Minix0]

I know its ironic since I was bragging up Lucario earlier, but man Lucario is really not a good character. His moves have like 0 priority and don't have good range to make up for it outside of a few exceptions. He feels like he's supposed to play like Sheik but doesn't have the frame data for it. His edgeguards are meh and don't even think about trying to kill until you're at least 50% (outside of random smash attacks).

I don't think he's the worst in the game or anything but bottom 15 sounds about right. He's such a frustrating character to play as.

Maesuma 4 Top 32 128 entrants

1. Rizeasu
2. Kome
3. Tea
4. Repo
5. Zaki
5. Kuro
7. Gackt
7. Sigma
9. Luminous
9. Kameme
9. Manzoku
9. Paseriman
13. HIKARU
13. Nagare
13. Shirayuki
13. yuzu
17. Masashi
17. DIO
17. Horkeu
17. TK3
17. Shachi
17. Munekin
17. Levi
17. Limeman
25. Yn
25. kisa
25. alice
25. Chichibu Travel
25. Ako
25. Kotatsu
25. Injelly
25. Nikukyu



How about Rizeasu reverse 3-0ing Kome with a pocket Robin?

Nice to see a solo Ridley get a nice-ish placing too.

 

[Firox]

Esam wasn't the only pro player who lost to a Steve in a first to ten today. In other news it seems Sparg0 is gonna pick up Steve.

Beat LeoN 10-8 in the ft10 with steve! My steve is slowly improving, cn't wait to play him next tournament

— FaZe Sparg0 (@Sparg0ssb) October 31, 2020

No, don't do it, Sparg0! Your Cloud is an inspiration to thousands of us Cloud players the world over!

 

[StrangeKitten]

No, don't do it, Sparg0! Your Cloud is an inspiration to thousands of us Cloud players the world over!

I mean, just because he plays Steve doesn't mean he's dropping Cloud. Steve can be his secondary

 

[Furret24]

Glad to see a Robin finally get some results, I always thought they were pretty slept on. Same for Mii Brawler, which some top players have suddenly realized is pretty sick.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Rizeasu always did fairly well with Brawler (yes, he does "Random" but he has a core of Marth, Brawler and Robin). And in the end, it's Japan. He could be eliminated in Top 64 next tournament or so. One result isn't enough to make a character high-tier (see Brood's Plant).


Don't know where this topic is coming from other than the fact there's nothing else to talk about.