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im sorry but having combos isnt the make or break for a character. icies arent being slept on but until they prove themselves to be a mnore consistent threat there is no logical reason to say they are slept on.
villager is fighting ultimate's engine. the broad reason of why he isnt that good.
there ARE unviable characters in ultimate.how many thier are is up for debate but there at least 3 to 5 characters that are not competitive due to MU spreads, consistency issues, or not having the tools to adapt to an unusual playstyle.
like with plant winning one event or having one player do well is not indicative of a character being good. kept's results dont make an argument for villager it makes an argument that kept is crazy good.
Ice Climbers don't just have combos. The hammers are a decent disjoint and with the other climber even stray hits do a lot of damage. Big D has been doing very well with them. Results don't mean everything but they do have a decent impact. LeoN is the entire reason why is considered so good, he's proving that the character has potential, like kept is proving that Villager has potential. Yes, there ARE nonviable characters, or I should really be saying character, because seems to be the only one that can't be vitalized in the same way that Jigglypuff was at the end of Smash 4, but there's nothing saying the Villager is in the group, and Ice Climbers are being optimized more and more by the day.
Ice Climbers don't just have combos. The hammers are a decent disjoint and with the other climber even stray hits do a lot of damage. Big D has been doing very well with them. Results don't mean everything but they do have a decent impact. LeoN is the entire reason why is considered so good, he's proving that the character has potential, like kept is proving that Villager has potential. Yes, there ARE nonviable characters, or I should really be saying character, because seems to be the only one that can't be vitalized in the same way that Jigglypuff was at the end of Smash 4, but there's nothing saying the Villager is in the group, and Ice Climbers are being optimized more and more by the day.
Nah, I'm fine with him having no air game so long as they make his ground game as good as his air game is bad. Giving him an air game goes against his design whatever you make think of it. A slight recovery buff would probably be it, but offensively, he should remain terrible.
Nah, I'm fine with him having no air game so long as they make his ground game as good as his air game is bad. Giving him an air game goes against his design whatever you make think of it. A slight recovery buff would probably be it, but offensively, he should remain terrible.
The thing is that I want a balanced character, quite frankly Mac is in the dust, but I don't want a character that's all over the place.
The only change I would make is making his smash attacks have heavy armor instead of super armor, that's all for me.
His smash attacks are fine. He needs them frankly. A small air game buff isn't likely to make up for worse smash attacks. Still, if they want this design to work, they need to make him utterly terrifying on the ground. For one, maybe make Jolt Haymaker better at getting around projectiles.
His smash attacks are fine. He needs them frankly. A small air game buff isn't likely to make up for worse smash attacks. Still, if they want this design to work, they need to make him utterly terrifying on the ground. For one, maybe make Jolt Haymaker better at getting around projectiles.
No. They are fine. I would even go and say that they are straight upgrades over someone like Lucina (and maybe Inkling too), with next to no hard counters against them.
His smash attacks are fine. He needs them frankly. A small air game buff isn't likely to make up for worse smash attacks. Still, if they want this design to work, they need to make him utterly terrifying on the ground. For one, maybe make Jolt Haymaker better at getting around projectiles.
That's the thing, this ground game is utterly terrifying already. He's got great frame data, tons of armor, high damage, lighting-fast running speed and an occasional access to an unblockable attack that kills stupid early. I for one don't want to live in a world where Mac is scarier on the ground then he already is.
As long as his air game is worthless, the character's design just doesn't work. His strengths and weaknesses are just too extreme for him to be consistent or reliable.
Then it shouldn't matter if he's better on the ground. It might give him a fighting chance. His ground game may be great, but I think it should be as good as his air game is bad. He's meant to be polarizing, so go all out. It won't make him super good by any means, but that is the nature of Little Mac.
Then it shouldn't matter if he's better on the ground. It might give him a fighting chance. His ground game may be great, but I think it should be as good as his air game is bad. He's meant to be polarizing, so go all out. It won't make him super good by any means, but that is the nature of Little Mac.
The thing is we don't want him to be polarizing, we want to be an actual character, with an bad air game and a great ground game instead of no air game and a disgusting ground game. I wouldn't care about anything else but I just can't stand those super armor smash attacks, and he has other good things. Just nerf the super armor to heavy armor, don't touch anything else and give him an air game, problem solved.
Other than not letting Mac use his Side-B again if he gets knocked out of it, Mac's biggest issue is that he gets screwed by platform camping since ideally he wouldn't be chasing opponents in the air anyway. I'd definitely peg him as a solid mid tier if Final Destination was the only legal stage.
In a game where 90% of the characters can knock mac into the air and keep him there, it's hard to see him ever breaking out of his shell without even something like a sex kick to get people off of him.
In a game where 90% of the characters can knock mac into the air and keep him there, it's hard to see him ever breaking out of his shell without even something like a sex kick to get people off of him.
IDK, a fast sex kick could be really good for Mac. YL has a f4 one and it's amazing. SKs in general are good because the long lasting hurt box coverage.
What is Mac's Nair currently? I don't even know, who uses aerials as Mac, lol.
IDK, a fast sex kick could be really good for Mac. YL has a f4 one and it's amazing. SKs in general are good because the long lasting hurt box coverage.
What is Mac's Nair currently? I don't even know, who uses aerials as Mac, lol.
It's a stubby downwards punch which funny enough is the fastest start-up for an aerial at frame 2, yet it has so little range and is unsafe on hit, so it's not worth going for.
No. They are fine. I would even go and say that they are straight upgrades over someone like Lucina (and maybe Inkling too), with next to no hard counters against them.
IDK, a fast sex kick could be really good for Mac. YL has a f4 one and it's amazing. SKs in general are good because the long lasting hurt box coverage.
What is Mac's Nair currently? I don't even know, who uses aerials as Mac, lol.
Yeah I agree. I'm saying Mac doesn't have even that as a benefit to his pitiful air game.
Honestly, it's a wonder they even gave him air moves to begin with if they're all going to be so terrible.
In my opinion, I'd at least like Little Mac to have some aerials that are just for utility like Corrin's bair which provides a bit of movement or some characters' stall-then-falls as a landing mix-up.
I don’t think it flew under the radar rather no one is entertaining such a claim lol.
RE: Mac.
Giving Little Mac useable aerials isn’t going to fix him as he doesn’t have a fully function ground kit either. Mac’s problem unlike in S4 is that his grounded moves do not combo like they’d used to nor are as safe as they’d used to be. His grounded neutral is not as potent as it used to be with the loss of perfect pivoting, the increased speed of the cast and everyone having safer aerials further weakening his neutral overall since he has to play grounded and shielded to deal with them (And which he doesn’t even have OOS options to help with that.) The loss of perfect pivoting hurt a lot with a character that used to make great use of them for microspacing tilts and extending neutral wins with up tilt. PP let Mac be a lot more ambiguous in his approach and playing around shields for a character that didn’t have the luxury of useable aerials or a grab game to help with this.
Instead in ultimate he has none of this, his moves aren’t as safe, they don’t compliment each other like they used to, he still can’t land, his DJ still goes no where (imagine if T&C hazardless was the only legal stage on the initial transform or Kalos.) air dodges being worse off makes life offstage despite no longer entering freefall with side b honestly the same as it was in S4, everyone can hammer safely on his shield now with aerials and he can’t actually do anything about it aside preemptively flicking the C-Stick and hoping his opponents spacing was bad.
The character is just flat out not good, useable we’ve seen that’s Ultimate for you but you can’t deny the character is any better in this game than he was in 4, I’d argue worse.
We have 70+ characters, many of whom fit the exact brawler archetype people want to cram Little Mac into. Let him be. You won't suddenly want to start playing him if he gets better aerials because you'll have gotten too used to someone else.
Tell me why I should use a theoretical Mac with better aerials over Captain Falcon.
Exactly, slightly better aerials will not make him better, so I think they should just hammer home his ground game to the absurd. Like, make his up special a seriously powerful KO move (and, yeah, let it keep that potency in the air even if the distance isn't as far). Let Jolt Haymaker go through most projectiles. Or even give it armor. Give him back his combos and then some. For that matter, since dodging is kind of his thing, give him the best spot dodge and rolls in the game.
Through the voting phase, RFang and Leffen are both in Smash Ultimate Summit 2.
The next voting phase occurs at October 1st (tomorrow). Right now, Samsora and Armada seems poised to get the next two slots.
There are definitely more notable players at the event. I accounted for so many, and I haven't even got past page 9 yet (there are 41 pages total!). I will leave it to you guys to get the notable players that I have missed.
Why would you use Little Mac in his current state at all? Having a niche is fine, but building your entire character around a crutch that's easily kicked out from underneath him isn't what I'd consider interesting game design.
We can talk about Little Mac and his awful aerials and awful recovery (like why isn't jolt haymaker replenished for use once you're hit?), but the most bewildering thing for me is his mediocre grab game. I get they wanted to go with the good at the ground but bad at the air angle with Mac, but grabs are an essential part for ground fighters. If you wanted to go this extreme then why not give Mac good grabs?
Outside of his smash attacks most of Mac's attacks deal weak shield damage. And his grab is painstakingly slow with a bad range, add to it that Mac has meh throws. Mac's grab game leaves a lot to be desired, and it hurts him much more than people might think.
Why would you use Little Mac in his current state at all? Having a niche is fine, but building your entire character around a crutch that's easily kicked out from underneath him isn't what I'd consider interesting game design.
There are stages and modes that are not competitive Smash, you know. Just like Hero's random spell list wasn't designed to be consistently competitive.
This is a game, and like all games, sometimes putting restrictions on yourself for added challenge is fun.
Through the voting phase, RFang and Leffen are both in Smash Ultimate Summit 2.
The next voting phase occurs at October 1st (tomorrow). Right now, Samsora and Armada seems poised to get the next two slots.
There are definitely more notable players at the event. I accounted for so many, and I haven't even got past page 9 yet (there are 41 pages total!). I will leave it to you guys to get the notable players that I have missed.
dyr is still mostly a player, I think.
Also it seems weird that Leffen enrolled for Melee but not for Ultimate. Is that really the case? Not that I'm surprised, he focussed more on Melee recently, but still.
We can talk about Little Mac and his awful aerials and awful recovery (like why isn't jolt haymaker replenished for use once you're hit?), but the most bewildering thing for me is his mediocre grab game. I get they wanted to go with the good at the ground but bad at the air angle with Mac, but grabs are an essential part for ground fighters. If you wanted to go this extreme then why not give Mac good grabs?
Outside of his smash attacks most of Mac's attacks deal weak shield damage. And his grab is painstakingly slow with a bad range, add to it that Mac has meh throws. Mac's grab game leaves a lot to be desired, and it hurts him much more than people might think.
I mean, I can see why they did it since they were going for a somewhat accurate boxer it seems (have you every tried to pick something up where boxing gloves, let alone a person?) and, beyond that, I think it's illegal to grapple in boxing.
Through the voting phase, RFang and Leffen are both in Smash Ultimate Summit 2.
The next voting phase occurs at October 1st (tomorrow). Right now, Samsora and Armada seems poised to get the next two slots.
There are definitely more notable players at the event. I accounted for so many, and I haven't even got past page 9 yet (there are 41 pages total!). I will leave it to you guys to get the notable players that I have missed.
Belongs in Ubers, but definitely not Mega Rayquaza levels of broken
Joking aside, seems like a solid character, having very good mobility, KO potential and combos. The big downsides seem to be its disadvantage state and OoS options.
I think Elegant mentioned earlier that he wanted to pick up a counterpick character to deal with some match-ups he felt were rough for , particularly .
He won a local recently using both Luigi and Fox based off of his tweet:
Won Mid Tier Monday’s :) I’m glad my fox is getting better
Speaking of Orion Stats, I have some thoughts on the current state of some characters:
has reentered the Top 30 characters after a significant decline after his nerfs, proving that he is still a good character.
has entered the Top 30 for (what I am pretty sure is) his first time. I personally expect him to keep climbing up closer to the other space animals but we'll see.
and are currently fighting for 7th place. It seems pretty clear to me that Mario is the better character although it's interesting that ROB is that high as some people would like to think a character with weaknesses as exploitable as ROB's ( being the other good example) is incapable of getting consistent results at tournaments.
is still at #1 after all this time with and trailing behind.
Speaking of , his results haven't fallen off as hard as people were predicting after Ally left the scene.
has also been climbing up the list over the last few weeks.
Despite supposedly having a lot of potential, they continue to to sit in the bottom 20 characters.
is still the lowest character on the list and the gap between her and the next best character just keeps getting larger.
All of this to say, that none of this is too surprising with the exception of Corrin. I'm seriously starting to consider if Corrin is actually just significantly worse than we all think as there's no good reason that her results should be this much lower than everyone else's, even if she is very similar to other swordfighters.
There is no place for me. No one will want the defective damaged product that I am. Nothing I do now will ever matter, will ever be good enough. I will never belong. What is the point of...just what is the point anymore
Both and rose up a notable amount. K. Rool is now at 70th at 8.5 points and Mewtwo is now at 71st (with ) at 8 points.
Geez, is pretty much left in the dust at last place, sitting at 1.5 points, with the second-to-last place character at 7 points.
I'm personally surprised by the number of Roy's, especially in comparison to the number of Chrom's. You've got Stroder, Salt One, Goblin, Cyro and potentially Tweek and Blacktwins13 while Chrom just has MattyG. I assume Mr. R isn't attending but even then, that'd just be one more Chrom compared to the potential 6 Roy's. Heck, even Lucina just has Meme and Mr. E there. Not surprising in the slightest that Marth is absent though. More noteworthy for the first two mentioned since Roy and Chrom have far more similar playstyles.
I'm personally surprised by the number of Roy's, especially in comparison to the number of Chrom's. You've got Stroder, Salt One, Goblin, Cyro and potentially Tweek and Blacktwins13 while Chrom just has MattyG. I assume Mr. R isn't attending but even then, that'd just be one more Chrom compared to the potential 6 Roy's. Heck, even Lucina just has Meme and Mr. E there. Not surprising in the slightest that Marth is absent though. More noteworthy for the first two mentioned since Roy and Chrom have far more similar playstyles.
is considered so good, he's proving that the character has potential, like kept is proving that Villager has potential. Yes, there ARE nonviable characters, or I should really be saying character, because 
