Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[The_Bookworm]

A poster above mentioned light having a falco and joker?
Edit: lol that was you. I'm stupid

He attempted using Falco and Joker against Shuton after his Fox failed in game 1, but with no avail.

 

[Rizen]

Its odd Tweek's YL in the few times he used it was pretty decent at killing. He did setups into Up-B that could kill around 110 . Is stuff like being tricky or hard to pull off consistently the problem?

Aerial spin attack can be a little finicky but that's not the main problem. I've had fast falling small opponents like Fox fall out the bottom and one time the opponent popped out of the top.

The main issue is YL has to get close and he loses to buttons up close. There are three setups into aerial spin attack: Dtilt, boomerang's strong early hit and bombs. Each of these has issues, especially against bigger disjoints than YL has.

Dtilt is frame 8, which isn't terrible but a good confirm like Chroy's jab is f5. There's a small window YL can Fair1>land>Dtilt>jump>upB around 90-110% but it depends on the opponent's weight and floatiness. If done at too high a % Fair1 will pop the opponent up too high for Dtilt to hit (in which case Usmash is the best followup). I've missed Dtilt a few times because getting the %s wrong.
You can also simply Dtilt without using Fair1, which IMO is the better way because it eliminates the pop up factor. An issue with this is the tip of YL's sword launches the opponent more sideways so you have to get up close to combo. YL generally is at a disadvantage on the ground in CQC because his sword's smaller than most disjoints, his frame data is subpar even for a sword character, his grab's f12 and OoS is f9. Any time YL's engaging in CQC he's at a disadvantage.

Boomerang, like all YL's projectiles loses to most hitboxes. I've had Yoshi Nair strait through boomerang and hit YL. This is a big reason why Wolf's transcendent blaster is more effective than YL's projectiles in many cases: it goes through hitboxes.

Bombs got nerfed from Link's bombs in SSB4. In SSB4 Link could throw a bomb at a hitbox and it would explode on the opponent. YL's bombs in Ultimate bounce off hitboxes like shields. Ultimate lets characters catch items with any attack so I've had things like Wolf's Ftilt catch my bomb and hit me through it.

For these reasons YL isn't safe up close even when using projectiles. He has several confirms but they're risky. This is why he struggles to kill. Often times YL can deal chip damage quickly but fish for opening and take a lot of damage trying to finish off the opponent. YL's KO power on most moves is really low too.

 

[blackghost]

so according to void, Jigglypuff and bayo are better than falcon, falco, wiifit, rosalina, ness, lucario, samus, marth, and metaknight. And therefore are high tier characters.
there are some others he listed as worse but those i can actually reason with.

the fact people still think that bayo is some slept on or ignored character is mindboggling. theres no theorycraft, no frame data, no mu chart, and no results that support that.

at least with a character like shiek you can point to frame data and shield pressure theorycraft as to her being overlooked. with bayo they often go to "well player x did this or that at a local and it was impressive."
to be a high tier you need to be able to point to something.

i think people are really ponting to a game we no longer play and are confusing the two.

 

[bc1910]

Much like Daenerys did the Iron Fleet, I’m pretty sure VoiD and Korean just kinda forgot about Jigglypuff.

If you watch the video the list is created casually in a way which seems fairly ad hoc. I expect Jiggs will be forgotten altogether, or plonked into low or low mid tier at some point in the next two parts. If she is genuinely placed in high tier I cannot fathom any reasonable basis for it.

Assuming she hasn’t also been forgotten about, Bayo in high tier is less surprising given she’s had a few high profile strong performances (Nairo vs Captain Zack at SNS5 comes to mind) and is generally seen as an effective character who struggles against shield and really sucks at killing. I don’t she’s done enough to justify being placed in high tier but I can at least understand how one might reach that conclusion. Same goes for Sheik who also hasn’t yet been placed.

 

[The_Bookworm]

When I think of in this game, I often think of her as:

A tall-lightweight character, who struggles to KO, has moves that sometimes doesn't work properly, and has the frame data of a super-heavy (worse than some of them), all in one package.

The fact that her highest profile performance is a set that she didn't even win (flashbacks to Abadango vs Ryo from SSB4) is saying something.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uprising 2019

1st: MkLeo
2nd: Gackt
3rd: Eim
4th: RAIN
5th: Raito
5th: ZAKI
7th: Regerets
7th: Lea

 

[Untouch]

Jigglypuff is simply shut down by too many things.
Any character with a disjoint just totally stops jiggs, to the point where WFT just needs to use utilt and jigglypuff simply cannot approach.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Some upsets that has occurred at Standoff 2019:

Ismon 2-0 Fatality
Deluxemenu 2-0 Goblin
Shadow_PR 2-0 Suarez
Ol'ThisGuy 2-0 Denti (Out at 33rd)
Wisdom 3-0 Fatality (Out at 13th)


Also, that MuteAce vs Trela match was so painful to watch for Trela. He did start to get a bit of a comeback towards the end, but it was too late.

 

[|RK|]

Jigglypuff is simply shut down by too many things.
Any character with a disjoint just totally stops jiggs, to the point where WFT just needs to use utilt and jigglypuff simply cannot approach.

Jiggs is generally really good at camping, but that's about it.

The Kirby/Jiggs MU is basically utilt/usmash as needed. Final Cutter sometimes too.

But then, if she gets the lead, she can just force you to chase.

If the opponent has disjoints and is good at chasing... well.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I am the only one who saw the massacre that was called "Elegant vs DeluxeMenu".

Game 2 (the Ridley game) was literally only 47 seconds.

Anyways... Elegant is in top 8.

 

[blackghost]

goblin just embarrassed trela's hero. 6-0 in two games. goblin just stayed above hero when menu was up and just went hard when he was in advantage state.
muteace 6-0 trela's hero with peach on winners side as well.
at top level this character ain't it man. at leats not currently.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I remember ZeRo's matches against HungryBox from a while back; watching unable to do anything against was just painful to watch.

Speaking of things that were hard to watch, Goblin completely slaughtered Trela's and forced the out of him, to no avail. Goblin 3-0s Trela .

To be honest, if there is a future for Hero, I can't really see it, at least in terms of the route Hero players are taking him anyway; I still think they need to incorporate less Command Selection into their gameplay, and much more neutral B.

 

[DiamondJoyride]

To be honest, if there is a future for Hero, I can't really see it, at least in terms of the route Hero players are taking him anyway; I still think they need to incorporate less Command Selection into their gameplay, and much more neutral B.

Agreed. They just need to use the other specials more imo. Zapple and Kafrizz are legitimately (to me at least) some of the best specials in the game, and I rarely ever see them get used.

E: But to add on, I kinda think it all matters on when you use it. Like, in advantage, yeah go for it, what have you got to lose? But in disadvantage, you should probably be going for the other, and admittedly better specials.

 

[Frihetsanka]

At least in terms of the route Hero players are taking him anyway, I still think they need to incorporate less Command Selection into their gameplay, and more neutral B.

From watching Parappa I'm inclined to disagree. He pulled out down-B in advantage, got a Snooze and killed at 60% in winner's quarters, and that's just one example. Other specials are good but the down-B is such a strong move.

From what I've seen, Parappa seems to be the Hero main who have pushed the Hero meta the most thus far.

 

[DiamondJoyride]

also

Uprising 2019
2nd: Gackt

gackt is so sick

 

[Cheryl~]

I agree with the notion that Hero mains focus on Down-B too much and not enough on Neutral B, but I was seeing that Trela was charging up the Frizz line a lot in his sets but was never able to utilize it fully because he was busy getting rushed down to death, or he had no MP left to utilize Kafrizzle. It really does seem that Hero just gets invalidated by most high tiers that don’t give him space to breathe, but I do hope that Hero mains get a little more serious in their play because relying on Down-B just isn’t the wave. Trela died like 4 times on stream just because he was fishing for Zoom when he could’ve tried to come back on stage with Kaswoosh.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Standoff 2019 Top 8


Winner's
Ismon vs Elegant
MuteAce vs yeti

Loser's
StroKaze vs DeluxeMenu
Goblin vs Wisdom

 

[blackghost]

From watching Parappa I'm inclined to disagree. He pulled out down-B in advantage, got a Snooze and killed at 60% in winner's quarters, and that's just one example. Other specials are good but the down-B is such a strong move.

From what I've seen, Parappa seems to be the Hero main who have pushed the Hero meta the most thus far.

but has parappa even attended a non-local tournament yet with hero? the last local I watched Parappa not even feel comfortable with hero and switch to ken last week.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Jeebus, Joker continues to take more names.

Joker 3-0s WaDi to eliminate him at 9th place.

 

[SwagGuy99]

I am the only one who saw the massacre that was called "Elegant vs DeluxeMenu".

Game 2 (the Ridley game) was literally only 47 seconds.

Anyways... Elegant is in top 8.

I saw game 2 and I'm going to be honest...

Maybe it was a confidence thing but Ridley probably does worse vs Luigi than Bowser so that really doesn't seem like a great decision TBH.

Ridley has lower speed overall, lower range on most attacks, lighter weight (meaning he dies earlier), and a slower recovery.

The only reason I'd imagine he picked Ridley was because he thought n-air would be able to keep Luigi out but having n-air really isn't enough against Luigi when he only really needs to win one or two neutral interactions to win.

Anyways, I don't really know much about Ismon, except that he is playing Wario.

Wario's range and frame-data isn't great but he absolutely obliterates Luigi offstage. Onstage, Luigi probably clearly does much better against Wario... but he has to catch him first. So that should be an interesting game to watch.

Also, there are two Roy's in Top 8 which is pretty cool so I'm hoping that we can see some good gameplay of him in the coming sets.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Anyways, I don't really know much about Ismon, except that he is playing Wario.

Wario's range and frame-data isn't great but he absolutely obliterates Luigi offstage. Onstage, Luigi probably clearly does much better against Wario... but he has to catch him first. So that should be an interesting game to watch.

Elegant 3-1 Ismon

Ismon was using Falco throughout most of the set, and judging on how game 4 went out, it was the right call. However, the end result would've probably been the same regardless. Elegant moves on to grand finals.

Jeebus, Joker continues to take more names.

Joker 3-0s WaDi to eliminate him at 9th place.

I am so glad a very talented Samus player is able to pick up the slack for YB.

I know that I mentioned this before, but I was afraid that Samus was going to be a one-hit-wonder because YB's status as a Japanese online player, but someone else is able to rack up the wins and results with Samus so that it pretty cool.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Jeebus, Joker continues to take more names.

Joker 3-0s WaDi to eliminate him at 9th place.

Can I just say this was a rather confusing post for me to read at first on account of Joker also being this guy? ->

 

[KirbySquad101]

Can I just say this was a rather confusing post for me to read at first on account of Joker also being this guy? ->

Ah, dang I really wish the Samus player Joker had an alternate name to go by lol. But yeah, I'll make sure to refer to the player Joker from now on by having the icon next to him.

Elegant 3-1 Ismon

Ismon was using Falco throughout most of the set, and judging on how game 4 went out, it was the right call. However, the end result would've probably been the same regardless. Elegant moves on to grand finals.


I am so glad a very talented Samus player is able to pick up the slack for YB.

I know that I mentioned this before, but I was afraid that Samus was going to be a one-hit-wonder because YB's status as a Japanese online player, but someone else is able to rack up the wins and results with Samus so that it pretty cool.

I think a lot of this can be said for other characters, particularly the ones outside of top 20: A lot of characters only have 1-2 major reps carrying them, so when they're under some downtime, it can be easy to think their success was momentary.

is probably feeling this right now with the loss of Riddles; I'm worried may follow suit given that RAIN dropped him a while back while YOC has mostly been going instead of him just recently.

 

[Cheryl~]

Joker 's run ends at a very respectable 7th losing to Light 3-2. His Ridley play was very unexpected but quite impressive even with the difficult matchup against Fox, but it sadly wasn't enough in the end. Still though, this run is even better than when Joker got 9th at Low Tier City 7 and hopefully it shows more people that Samus is not to be slept on, and Ridley to a much lesser extent. (Imo she's a low high tier and Ridley is a solid mid-tier.)

 

[KirbySquad101]

Kome 3-2s Shuton to make it into Winner's Finals; really strong gameplay for both sides: Shuton made the right call in using Pikmin Order to stop a lot of Kome's strings, but Kome made such good use out of Air Slash to negate Shuton's air approach options.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Elegant 3-1 yeti

This set was weird...

Anyways, Elegant is in grand finals.

 

[L9999]

I think a lot of this can be said for other characters, particularly the ones outside of top 20: A lot of characters only have 1-2 major reps carrying them, so when they're under some downtime, it can be easy to think their success was momentary.

is probably feeling this right now with the loss of Riddles; I'm worried may follow suit given that RAIN dropped him a while back while YOC has mostly been going instead of him just recently.

would have to be a real character in the first place to ever see success again.

> His attacks have tiny hitboxes, last for 1 frame, and they are laggy.
> Tipper mechanic make it difficult for Belmonts to get kills without Holy Water.
> Awful air speed and heavy weight makes them easy to combo and makes his recovery awful and predictable.
> No options to escape pressure. Up B and jump can only work so many times. (Why is Nair frame 8? It has no range!)
> The developers forgot to give the Belmonts a grab, as if their close/mid range game wasn't balls enough.
> Up B might be bugged because it always show red sparks and kill animation at high % but it never kills.
> His chain recovery is easily clipped. Probably some axis shenanigans.

His MUs against the most relevant characters are very poor. are abysmal, possibly -3s, like they were designed to take a piss on Richter. can all either blow up on Belmont's face really hard, counter camp him, or both. are the most decent MUs he has but those characters can still blow up on his face. He doesn't like a lot either. can only realistically beat characters that are equally as garbage as they are.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Kameme 3-2s Tea to make it into Winner's Final in a 3-0 reversal; major props to Kameme to adapting as well as he did, but you can feel the pain in Tea's expression after that match.

Not to say I don't want Light to win, but I'm really hoping Tea doesn't get double eliminated in Top 8 Winner's for a THIRD time.

would have to be a real character in the first place to ever see success again.

> His attacks have tiny hitboxes, last for 1 frame, and they are laggy.
> Tipper mechanic make it difficult for Belmonts to get kills without Holy Water.
> Awful air speed and heavy weight makes them easy to combo and makes his recovery awful and predictable.
> No options to escape pressure. Up B and jump can only work so many times. (Why is Nair frame 8? It has no range!)
> The developers forgot to give the Belmonts a grab, as if their close/mid range game wasn't balls enough.
> Up B might be bugged because it always show red sparks and kill animation at high % but it never kills.
> His chain recovery is easily clipped. Probably some axis shenanigans.

His MUs against the most relevant characters are very poor. are abysmal, possibly -3s, like they were designed to take a piss on Richter. can all either blow up on Belmont's face really hard, counter camp him, or both. are the most decent MUs he has but those characters can still blow up on his face. He doesn't like a lot either. can only realistically beat characters that are equally as garbage as they are.

I don't know much about them, but the Belmonts seem to suffer too much from their polarizing attributes to be solo viable in a tournament; I can see them being a decent counterpick character for the same reasons, though. Characters who can't take advantage of his shortcomings all that well can make the match-up a real struggle for them, especially if they don't know how to get around his walls and ledge-trappings.

As for the spark thing, I'm thinking it might be caused from the multi-hits, actually. 's Super Jump Punch is also pretty guilty of this as well, causing spark effects when it actually doesn't end up killing the opponent that often.

 

[Nebunera]

would have to be a real character in the first place to ever see success again.

> His attacks have tiny hitboxes, last for 1 frame, and they are laggy.
> Tipper mechanic make it difficult for Belmonts to get kills without Holy Water.
> Awful air speed and heavy weight makes them easy to combo and makes his recovery awful and predictable.
> No options to escape pressure. Up B and jump can only work so many times. (Why is Nair frame 8? It has no range!)
> The developers forgot to give the Belmonts a grab, as if their close/mid range game wasn't balls enough.
> Up B might be bugged because it always show red sparks and kill animation at high % but it never kills.
> His chain recovery is easily clipped. Probably some axis shenanigans.

His MUs against the most relevant characters are very poor. are abysmal, possibly -3s, like they were designed to take a piss on Richter. can all either blow up on Belmont's face really hard, counter camp him, or both. are the most decent MUs he has but those characters can still blow up on his face. He doesn't like a lot either. can only realistically beat characters that are equally as garbage as they are.

I've been convinced for a while that are actually low tier.

 

[Arthur97]

I'm not sure how reliable the sparks are anyways. How often have you had them or even the zoom in only for it to not kill?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Standoff 2019 (Category 3)
1st: Elegant
2nd: Goblin
3rd: yeti
4th: MuteAce
5th: Ismon
5th: StroKaze
7th: DeluxeMenu
7th: Wisdom
9th: Dojo
9th: Trela
9th: Shadow_PR
9th: AvoiD
13th: Ultimate Razor
13th: Fatality
13th: SaSSy
13th: El Wolf

 

[Ffamran]

Jigglypuff is simply shut down by too many things.
Any character with a disjoint just totally stops jiggs, to the point where WFT just needs to use utilt and jigglypuff simply cannot approach.

I'm guessing you already know and that's why you said it, but Wii Fit Trainer's right arm, the arm that's held up, is invincible on frames 3-12 during Utilt which has a startup of 5 frames, so it already has a good anti-air quality. Same dealio with WFT's Up Smash being full body invincible on frames 12-15 where its startup is 15 frames. Jiggles could try to hit WFT low, but that might be too slow and being above WFT would likely lead to an Utilt anti-air or whatever WFT wants or needs to do to deal with Jiggles.

 

[Lacrimosa]

would have to be a real character in the first place to ever see success again.

> His attacks have tiny hitboxes, last for 1 frame, and they are laggy.
> Tipper mechanic make it difficult for Belmonts to get kills without Holy Water.
> Awful air speed and heavy weight makes them easy to combo and makes his recovery awful and predictable.
> No options to escape pressure. Up B and jump can only work so many times. (Why is Nair frame 8? It has no range!)
> The developers forgot to give the Belmonts a grab, as if their close/mid range game wasn't balls enough.
> Up B might be bugged because it always show red sparks and kill animation at high % but it never kills.
> His chain recovery is easily clipped. Probably some axis shenanigans.

His MUs against the most relevant characters are very poor. are abysmal, possibly -3s, like they were designed to take a piss on Richter. can all either blow up on Belmont's face really hard, counter camp him, or both. are the most decent MUs he has but those characters can still blow up on his face. He doesn't like a lot either. can only realistically beat characters that are equally as garbage as they are.

You should also mention since her upB is able to punish every of the Belmont's special. He basically has to fight without them.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Those games looked so back and forth, and then in the last two stocks, Tea just goes mad.

Tea 3-2 Kome , eliminating him at a very impressive 3rd place; honestly, whether you disagree on Shulk being a top tier or now, Kome made such a great display on just how effective's Shulk Monado canceling can be, particularly his immediate switch from Shield to Smash to get strong punishes and using Speed Art to avoid aerial combos due to Shulk's faster falling speed in that art.

Also, is it safe to say that Shield Art during hitstun is in Top 5 as far as "Get out of combo free" moves go? That move was seriously the MVP of the match.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Kameme takes it using Wario in a matchup most of his mains would swear is bad.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Switchfest 2019 (Category 4+)
1st: Kameme
2nd: Tea
3rd: Kome
4th: Shuton
5th: Light
5th: Glutonny
7th: Joker
7th: Marss
9th: WaDi
9th: Larry Lurr
9th: MVD
9th: Mr.R
13th: Rivers
13th: VoiD
13th: Meme
13th: MastaMario
17th: HIKARU
17th: Nicko
17th: AC
17th: Xzax
17th: Snoop
17th: Charliedaking
17th: Puppeh
17th: RockstarAce

 

[blackghost]

good to see pichu next to void's name again.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Already posted it in the Banjo topic, but I think this will be also interesting for competitive play because we roughly know when we can expect the next patch:

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That's honestly sooner than expected.

 

[Impax]

Joker should be credited with Ridley. Won games against light. That much was pretty hype
Meme also used a secondary but dont knowing if meme won any with.

 

[The_Bookworm]

With this weekend, here is what I found to be the winners.

Biggest Winners
Big victory for Luigi, as Elegant wins Standoff 2019 in rather dominant fashion, defeating DeluxeMenu, Ismon, yeti, and Goblin. And there is still people who think he is lower mid tier at best...
Finally gets a relevant result in a major (other than Kome getting 7th at Umebura SP 4) worthy of a high tier. Kome's 3rd in Switchfest 2019, while defeating Marss, WaDi, and Shuton. Granted that Shulk experience, let alone against one of Kome's caliber, is difficult to come by, but this is pretty nice to the character overall.
There is, of course, going to be that one top player who is going to be like "this is the proof that Shulk is top tier", but we know better at this point (hopefully).
Tea scores an impressive 2nd placement at Switchfest 2019, defeating VoiD, Glutonny, Light, Shuton, and Kome. Pac-Man's overall results, although still pretty good, have slipped up a bit since season 1, so this is nice to see.
Samus gets a pretty nice boost this weekend thanks to Joker's 7th placement at Switchfest 2019, defeating WaDi, Sparg0, Rivers, and Nicko.


Other Winners
Both Chrom and Roy gets a notable boost after this weekend. Chrom has Rivers getting 13th at Switchfest 2019, Mr. R getting 9th at Switchfest 2019 with mostly Chrom, and MkLeo using Chrom to beat Gackt in both winner's and grand finals to win Uprising 2019. Roy has Goblin getting 2nd at Standoff 2019 and StroKaze getting 5th at Standoff 2019 using some Roy.
Uprising 2019 was filled to the brim with Joker players. RAIN got 4th with him, Eim got 3rd with him, and MkLeo won the whole thing using mostly him. This, combined with Zackray dropping Wolf (who is currently #1 on the Orion Stats) with Joker (who is #2) and R.O.B., Joker is only getting more popular. I won't be surprised if Joker gets the Wolf treatment by the dev team when it comes time for balance changes at this rate.
Mega Man got a pretty good showing this weekend, with yeti getting 3rd at Standoff 2019 and Kameme outright winning Switchfest 2019. The only reason why this isn't more notable to be part of "biggest winners", is because Kameme used plenty of Wario too.
Duck Hunt got a decent showing this weekend. While Raito getting 5th at Uprising 2019 isn't too notable, Wisdom getting 7th at Standoff 2019 while beating Denti, Fatality, and Shadow_PR is arguably more notable. Still good stuff to the duo regardless.
WaDi utilized Mewtwo to great effect during the Switchfest 2019 Kickoff, getting 3rd while beating Umeki, Tea, Tru4, and Puppeh before barely losing to Kameme. I am kind of surprised he didn't use him once during the actual Switchfest 2019 event. Maybe he didn't think it was ready to take him out of the oven yet? Regardless, it is a nice showing of the character.


Some Things to Point Out
MVD gets 9th at Switchfest, which is not only higher than what his results have been lately, but his loses was also respectable, losing only to Kameme and Marss. Definitely not the same heights as before, but it is still a step up. AvoiD and Ultimate Razor also got 9th and 13th, respectively, at Standoff 2019, so that is cool too.
He has seen various use throughout the weekend, with mixed results. DeluxeMenu instantly regretted using him against Elegant. Trela's Ridley was doing better than his Hero against Goblin, although he still ended up short. Joker, however, almost defeated Light using Ridley.
Trela got a nice 9th placement with solo Hero. Despite this, he didn't really beat anyone too notable, and he kind of got bodied by MuteAce and Goblin, especially the latter. Outside of this, Hero made virtually no impact in the other two notable tournaments.
Shadow_PR also got 9th in Standoff 2019. He did managed to beat N and Suarez, but when he ran into yeti and Wisdom, he kind of got bopped to the point of often switching to Palutena.

 

[Rizen]

Tournaments happen too fast. I don't have time to watch all the matches, lol.

Ally retiring seems to have affected more than I thought. There's a good chance he would have preformed better than MVD at recent events. Cosmo's absence is hurting in a similar way.
Somehow has remained on top of Orion rank phase 2 despite hardly anybody playing him anymore. It's just Larry Lurr and Jackle that I know of. He must be very popular at medium levels of gameplay. I know my region is flooded with them; I've played 4 different Wolfs in the past month.

The more I play both as and against the better he looks. Wolf's Fair/Bair/Ftilt have sword like reach and he's really good at spacing on top of his great mid range control with blaster and DA. The nerfs were big but it shows just how OP he was before that he's still number 1 after them. I think everyone got tired of playing him so much but didn't drop him for being bad.

get good results from Tea and Raito but are in the twenties for Orion stats. They don't have the widespread success of top tiers. It will be interesting to see Mr.R's in the future. At this point Pac and DH have proven to be the better zoners than YL.