Community Patch Project

[Mazdamaxsti]

Wut dins amazing. Nooooooo
No it's horrific

You literally didn't even look at anything in my post apart from the A-MAZ-ING, which you didn't even look at why I said it and when.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Zelda's projectile bad? Nuh uh. Not useful in most situations, sure. Bad, no.

Good to wait for on opening
Good to apply pressure
Bad for just throwing out
Bad against rush downs
A-MAZ-ING in Sudden Death (Don't even argue with me on this one)

With the free fall thing, meh, I would rather her get tweaks to other moves. Her Up B is really strong and goes really far so why wouldn't you use it?

No rush downs can just run through it since it has so much lag
Not really it's not that good for pressure also since it'll never hit
When there's an opening its too slow to get there before they can shield.
Sudden deaths don't really matter

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

-Take off the ability of greninja to hit while someone combo jab him.
-Make sheik and ZSS down B more punishable.
-Increase the hitstun of dancing blade of Marth and Lucina (last strike is easly shielded)
-Nerf overall rolling speed of all character.
-Give some areal canceling to character with no camping option (better approach).
-1st shine frame of fox should reflect, instead we see the shrine but the reflect doesnt take effect.
-Decrease luma hp or transfert a little of dmg taken on rosalina when hited. Make luma not able to attack when rosalina is stunned.
-DACUS back plz.
-No clone plz, some imagination. Why Lucina with a 2 hands long sword attack with the same speed with little shorter range than a Marth with a 1 hand short sword. I didn't play Icarus Urprising but i'm sure there is more difference.

I liked Lucina in Icarus Uprising, same with Marth. Marth looked less like a girl in Icarus Uprising. Chrom is cool in Icarus Uprising. Robin is me in Icarus Uprising. Icarus Uprising should add Pit and Palutena, maybe even Dark Pit, to be side characters, or even protagonists. Chrom would like that in Icarus Uprising.

oh god

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

No rush downs can just run through it since it has so much lag
Not really it's not that good for pressure also since it'll never hit
When there's an opening its too slow to get there before they can shield.
Sudden deaths don't really matter

I've played Zelda before, and I just put the thing close to me when I saw them sprinting. Boom.
They don't want to be hit, so at least they'll stay away while you wait for an opening.
If you're doing your fire and you see an opening just grab.
They do.

 

[ellord]

I liked Lucina in Icarus Uprising, same with Marth. Marth looked less like a girl in Icarus Uprising. Chrom is cool in Icarus Uprising. Robin is me in Icarus Uprising. Icarus Uprising should add Pit and Palutena, maybe even Dark Pit, to be side characters, or even protagonists. Chrom would like that in Icarus Uprising.

oh god

Wait what, Marth in Icarus Uprising? Lucina/Robin are from fire emblem awakening. I was talking about pit and dark pit too similar and I didn't play their original game to find argue difference unlike awakening. Marth never been girly in fire emblem, just in smash bros.

But are you trolling me?

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Wait what, Marth in Icarus Uprising? Lucina/Robin are from fire emblem awakening. I was talking about pit and dark pit too similar and I didn't play their original game to find argue difference unlike awakening. Marth never been girly in fire emblem, just in smash bros.

But are you trolling me?

It was a joke, it looked like you were referring to Marth and Lucina in Icarus Uprising and I took the first trolly chance I got to tell you it looks a damn lot like you're talking about Marth and Lucina.

 

[ellord]

It was a joke, it looked like you were referring to Marth and Lucina in Icarus Uprising and I took the first trolly chance I got to tell you it looks a damn lot like you're talking about Marth and Lucina.

Hmmm... now I reread, that's true it look like that.

 

[Phenomiracle]

I've played Zelda before, and I just put the thing close to me when I saw them sprinting. Boom.
They don't want to be hit, so at least they'll stay away while you wait for an opening.
If you're doing your fire and you see an opening just grab.
They do.

Shield and punish the atrocious endlag. That's all the other person has to do for a Din's right in front of them.

If you actually manage to be stupid enough to get hit by Din's, you should feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Please tell me you had more of an argument for Din's.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Shield and punish the atrocious endlag. That's all the other person has to do for a Din's right in front of them.

If you actually manage to be stupid enough to get hit by Din's, you should feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Please tell me you had more of an argument for Din's.

When someone i sprinting at you I doubt they would be able to shield if you time it correctly. Din's isn't a great move, but a buff would make it OP, so I'm on the side of keeping it the way it is.

 

[Phenomiracle]

When someone i sprinting at you I doubt they would be able to shield if you time it correctly.

The explosion happens well after release, more than enough time for a sprinting character to shield in time.

Din's isn't a great move, but a buff would make it OP, so I'm on the side of keeping it the way it is.

You haven't made much of an argument convincing anyone of that.

I'm completely amused at people who seriously think Din's is a decent move, considering it's worse than it was in Brawl. There aren't even any set ups for it (at least the Phantom can be edgeguard), it's horrendous by every measure. It's a perfect summarization of Zelda in Smash 4.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

The explosion happens well after release, more than enough time for a sprinting character to shield in time.


You haven't made much of an argument convincing anyone of that.

Its called timing, my brotha.

And I've been trying to, like in my first post I stated the goods and bads and why it shoudnt be buffed but other moves should.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Its called timing, my brotha.

There's absolutely no timing possible on Zelda's part. You just have to hope your opponent is too slow to react in time; you're left praying for the best.

Insanely high risk for a reward so low it might as well be nonexistent.

And I've been trying to, like in my first post I stated the goods and bads and why it shoudnt be buffed but other moves should.

Trying only gets you so far. You're failing quite miserably.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

There's absolutely no timing possible on Zelda's part. You just have to hope your opponent is too slow to react in time; you're left praying for the best.

Insanely high risk for a reward so low it might as well be nonexistent.


Trying only gets you so far. You're failing quite miserably.

Meh, at least I tried.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Well we're not gonna get our din buff now
We need go petition or talk to nintendo
Zelda needs her well deserved buffs

 

[zackattack_056]

Captain falcon has A little too much launchability. Primarily on his regular attacks. This is why villager.is weak to him, any light character goes down the drain with his smash attacks and his regular attacks can edge gaurd to well. Or is villager the problem?

 

[LimitCrown]

Apparently, the Famitsu article was not fully translated.

 

[LancerStaff]

Just came in to say this ^. Like, seriously people? Don't you do ANY research before screaming what's on your mind?

 

[KoM]

Captain falcon has A little too much launchability. Primarily on his regular attacks. This is why villager.is weak to him, any light character goes down the drain with his smash attacks and his regular attacks can edge gaurd to well. Or is villager the problem?

Captain Falcon is not strong against Villager. If you can't beat a character, the problem is you the player and not the other character typically.

 

[zackattack_056]

Probably my problem, your right. My 1 normal strategy flaw! (Besides little mac)

 

[Gidy]

I see a lot of dedication put in to this thread and I really hope Sora Ltd and Namco Bandai considers things like this from the community but with the recent announcement that there are no plans for any game balancing patches in Smash 4 I have a really hard time seeing these changes become true.

 

[LancerStaff]

I see a lot of dedication put in to this thread and I really hope Sora Ltd and Namco Bandai considers things like this from the community but with the recent announcement that there are no plans for any game balancing patches in Smash 4 I have a really hard time seeing these changes become true.

There's a difference between "no plans" and "no patches ever," yaknow.

 

[Funkermonster]

Am I the only one who wants a few adjustments to Bowser Jr. ?

• Last ht of infinite jab combo is unreliable because its not hard to DI out of at higher percents since its so slow to come out. You could say the same thing about other infinite jabs though like Fox's. I just wish the last jab would link better to make it more reliable.
• His grab is almost as slow as a tether grab, and it doesn't even have the range of a tether grab; and it makes it really hard to shieldgrab hits with him sometimes. As a thorn in the side, he also has a subpar set of throws that neither allow for any followups or have kill power. Bthrow does good damage and can set up edgeguards, but the rest don't really do anything amazing. I'd either just want a slightly grab or a throw that opens up for combos or something
• Forward smash has an awkward hitbox that whiffs sometimes if your opponent is too close for some reason, and its endlag doesn't do it justice either since its so punishable. The move would be slightly better I feel if it had a better hitbox so it wouldn't whiff as much.
• One of his main weaknesses is the lack of a reliable approach option, and he's not the best at projectle zoning either; which really hurts him in a lot matchups with characters who can either camp him out or walk all over him. Combined with his already slow movement, SideB isn't a great approach since it doesn't even move all that fast, is not safe on shield, has limited attacks and options out of it, and a lot of moves can beat him out it. You could toss out a mechakoopa to cover it up, but even then the future isn't far off when any competent opponent can still pick them up and use them against you. I'd probably wish for the ability to shield during his cart (like Sonic can do with his sideb) to help with this, or basically anything that makes it a better approach without making it OP.

Other than that though, I got nothing.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Make kirbys inhale unshieldable

It's a command grab but it's shieldable and its BS. It makes inhale even more unreliable and easily avoidable

 

[Problem2]

Make it so that tether characters don't tether when they try to item drop in the air. This would apply to Samus, Link, Toon Link, and Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Is this still going on? Anyway, here's my complaints:http://smashboards.com/threads/whiffy-kong-the-moves-that-have-less-range-than-they-appear.384311/

 

[Nabbitnator]

You're not the only one.
What should happen for bowser jr is a slight buff to his zoning abilities. It seems like more of a hindrance to him then for something to help is game at the moment. He should either have the ability to have 2 on the screen to help his approach or either the start up timing for the koopaling to come out should be reduced so he can make use of it quicker.
(It wouldn't become broken)

For a system change rolls the ending lag for them should be a few frames longer, they should be something for defense but not something that seems like you cancel directly into another. Yes there are ways to punish it but even then its unreasonably difficult to punish unless you have a move that has a lot of active frames that covers both sides. Some of the distances of a few characters rolls should be reduced too.

Other then that I think at this point it is best to buff the abilities of the weaker characters like Kirby and tweak some of the overtuned characters.

 

[Captain Norris]

The only buff Din's fire needs is to explode closer to when you release the button input. Just a little bit, not too much.
Link's grab should be the same in both games, whether they allow the claw shot to hit the ground upon whiffing or not. Personally, I would argue Link needs a little less end lag on the grab.
Would anyone care to argue on these points? I am sincerely curious as to what the rest of the community thinks of these thoughts of mine.

 

[B!squick]

I think a good compromise for Flying Slam would be to make it go straight up and down while giving it a slightly bigger hitbox. It doesn't even need to be Brawl Flying Slam large, just bigger than what it is now.

There's just no reason to use that move over anything else. It has seemingly the same range as Bowser Bomb and his Standing Grab. Bowser Bomb pressures shields arguably better and does more damage, kills sooner. Pivot Grab has more range and is safer. Grabbing can achieve similar and even more damage than Flying Slam when your opponent gets to the 60%ish range and you can pummel more. And Bowser has pretty decent edge guarding options, so just throwing the opponent off stage isn't THAT much worse than possibly killing with a SideB on stage, because Flying Slam will leave them over the stage if it doesn't kill which isn't as good as them being off stage.

Additionally, in Brawl it was possible to follow up Klaw at very low percents because you could jump while you were still in the air and at 0% I think a second Klaw was guaranteed, at least against some characters. Here it's damage and back to neutral, which as stated previously isn't his best option for that. Like, ever.

It's tiny range combined with DOUBLE the time for the grab box to come out while in the air makes it a deplorable aerial option as well.

Klaw only does two things well. It's a whole 1-2 frames faster than his Standing Grab on the ground and it's free to use when landing. That's it.

At the very least, can we make it so the animation visually lines up with the grabbox? Because his fingers pass right through people and don't grab and that's including the thumb in the back. It looks really stupid seeing Bowser's massive hands connect solidly with character models and somehow whiff.

Actually I just thought of a neat idea. What if there was a damaging hitbox around the grabbox where his fingers are? Solves the issue of missing clear hits while keeping the stupid small grab range that should die in a fire, IMO. Don't give the hitbox any hitstun. Dial back the damage of Slam itself so it still does 18% total damage. I don't know how doable all of that is, but it'd give me some piece of mind.


In the end though, the inconsistencies with Bowsercides and suicide moves in general is the biggest problem. At least as far as Bowser is concerned.

 

[AnchorTea]

Dear Yoshi,

You've really improved in this game. You really let yourself go in brawl, but now you are truly a formitable fighter. Thank Sakurai for giving you a chance. However, I just want you to know that you have thousands of haters, because of the priorities you have. Your dash attack rips through everything, and you can break Pit and Pittoo's orbitars by using your fair two times. Two. Everything about you is powerful. Your aerials, tilts, specials, smashes, and everything else. Your up special is the killer of aerial fighters, and your down aerial will destroy anything. We sent nerf bots to your house, so you can be sparred by your haters.

No matter how much you run. You will be nerfed.

Sincerly,

Smashville, aka the Villager community.

 

[Deleted member]

Dear Yoshi,

You've really improved in this game. You really let yourself go in brawl, but now you are truly a formitable fighter. Thank Sakurai for giving you a chance. However, I just want you to know that you have thousands of haters, because of the priorities you have. Your dash attack rips through everything, and you can break Pit and Pittoo's orbitars by using your fair two times. Two. Everything about you is powerful. Your aerials, tilts, specials, smashes, and everything else. Your up special is the killer of aerial fighters, and your down aerial will destroy anything. We sent nerf bots to your house, so you can be sparred by your haters.

No matter how much you run. You will be nerfed.

Sincerly,

Smashville, aka the Villager community.

This... A thousand times. I'm sorry (to all Yoshi mains) for saying this, but I am sincerely beginning to hate Yoshi in this game. His fast attacks, god-tier sheild, fast speed overall, high priority, egg spam, and low percent kill moves have given me headaches ever since the game came out. It's great that Yoshi is able to fend for himself, but his abilities are way too over-exaggerated in SSB4. Not to forget that his egg-roll has way more priority than before.

Of course... I'm a G&W main, but I still agree with you.

If I were to change anything about Yoshi, it would be to make some of his moves a bit laggier (like dash attack, forward aerial, neutral aerial, and smash attacks) and worsen his horizontal momentum after he uses up-b so he can be punished easier. Yoshi moves so fast that it's extremely difficult to punish him in just about any situation. Even when he's off stage, he can easily make it back with his double-jump and up-b, accompanied with his fast air momentum. I believe it to be a little outrageous that Yoshi's quick attacks can shut down a majority of approach options without any glaring cons.

It's fine that Yoshi is top tier and all, but he's the character that I have the absolute most trouble against. Not just with G&W, but with all of my other mains too.

EDIT: Yes, I'm salty. Come at me.

 

[TheMiSP]

Yup. I just don't like how I have zero plans and strategies (other than Smash basics) whenever I use Yoshi and yet I can considerably beat my opponent...

His fair? I'm willing to say it's Mario's but better.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Would anybody be against Wario having a normal grab release?

 

[Lavani]

Would anybody be against Wario having a normal grab release?

That was already fixed in 1.0.4

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Is this still going on? Anyway, here's my complaints:http://smashboards.com/threads/whiffy-kong-the-moves-that-have-less-range-than-they-appear.384311/

Yeah it's still going on. I'll get back to this some other time. I'm just not overly motivated for this at the moment. Keep the input coming though, I'll look at everything eventually.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Sorry to say to anyone complaining about yoshi, but git gud. He's a good scrub beater

Honestly. His DA is punishable cause of how laggy it is once you use it, like how people say to punish diddy when he uses Side-b.

He still has problems with neutral even if it's good at best, his egg lay has more start up and has very slight decrease in range that was a ninja nerf from the previous patch, side-b still next to useless, and while his fair became his go to aerial to spam it still has start up and will never be as good as his brawl Bair. His grabs and throws are absolutely horrible still too, especially pivot grab. It's worse than Zelda's entire kit.

If you wanna complain about characters, complain about Sheik or Diddy.
Even with the small list of cons they have, it's countered by the huge list of pros they have. Yoshi's barely above in terms of pros but cons are just crawling behind him by an inch.

He's great but not fantastic. I'd say Mii brawler Ness or maybe Pikachu is better than Yoshi to take his top 3 or top 5 spot, wherever people wanna put him up there. Thank goodness for regular shield though, but can't platform drop for some reason. If Yoshi kept his brawl Pivot grab Bair, and they didn't nerf his dash attack then I'll agree and say.

Yeah, he's pretty ****ing stupid, brb winning apex

 

[Slice~]

Yoshi is more easy to pick up in this game, but not OP or something like that.
In Brawl he was one of the hardest characters to play, as he got some of the most complicated AT's you had to use. Therefor, you didn't see a lot of good Yoshis.
Now you just pick him and instantly have a decent **** level.

There is so much in Smash 4 that got nerfed on him and the only big thing that made him stronger was his OoS Buff (which is pretty good ofc).

He's different from other characters. Stop complaining and learn the MU.

 

[AnchorTea]

Sorry to say to anyone complaining about yoshi, but git gud. He's a good scrub beater

Honestly. His DA is punishable cause of how laggy it is once you use it, like how people say to punish diddy when he uses Side-b.

He still has problems with neutral even if it's good at best, his egg lay has more start up and has very slight decrease in range that was a ninja nerf from the previous patch, side-b still next to useless, and while his fair became his go to aerial to spam it still has start up and will never be as good as his brawl Bair. His grabs and throws are absolutely horrible still too, especially pivot grab. It's worse than Zelda's entire kit.

If you wanna complain about characters, complain about Sheik or Diddy.
Even with the small list of cons they have, it's countered by the huge list of pros they have. Yoshi's barely above in terms of pros but cons are just crawling behind him by an inch.

He's great but not fantastic. I'd say Mii brawler Ness or maybe Pikachu is better than Yoshi to take his top 3 or top 5 spot, wherever people wanna put him up there. Thank goodness for regular shield though, but can't platform drop for some reason. If Yoshi kept his brawl Pivot grab Bair, and they didn't nerf his dash attack then I'll agree and say.

Yeah, he's pretty ****ing stupid, brb winning apex

Try fighting a really good Yoshi player.

Then tell me how it feels

 

[Sinister Slush]

I play Yoshi, and Yoshi mains universally hate the ditto.
soooooooo

 

[Kofu]

I play Yoshi, and Yoshi mains universally hate the ditto.
soooooooo

You have a secondary or use other characters, don't you? If Yoshi's as bad as you say you should have another character to use for his bad MUs, right?

The only thing about Yoshi that really bugs me is the range on some of his attacks. Also his jump armor but that isn't going anywhere (and is important for his recovery). It's a little irritating when I push him up with a wind box only for him to smack me back.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Nope, most of us are too devoted to Yoshi to betray him. Especially since he's actually good now, except Polt. He'll still go sheik in the Yoshi ditto lol

His only bad MUs honestly is sheik and anybody else who can just **** him in the face all day. So brawler sheik sonic and mario to an extent. Diddy is ok at the very least, but we of course still lose to him for obvious reasons.