Community Create-A-Team: A New Start - Yanmega!

[Gates]

Lucario's Atk isn't that high, it's just that he gets SD+really good physical moves.

However, Electivire's SpA is pretty bad and Nidoking's is worse than that.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Then don't give Nido special moves.

 

[Riddle]

Lucario's Atk isn't that high, it's just that he gets SD+really good physical moves.

However, Electivire's SpA is pretty bad and Nidoking's is worse than that.

Fair enough. Electivires attack is higher than Dialga's.

 

[Circa]

Nidoking is versatile as hell when in the offensive role. If you're using Nidoking, it's to fit a niche. And it just happens that we're trying to fit a niche. You people are complaining about what it can't do, but you're not denying its usefulness in what it can to do. The only one to turn it down so far said to use Nidoqueen, which doesn't even fit the niche thanks to its even bigger lack of power and better use for roles that aren't general stallbreaker. If you'd argue anything else to use, you'd argue Tyranitar. Tyranitar, however, doesn't have the Toxic/Thunder Wave immunities that you really want to take on Blissey. Plus it summons up residual damage that we probably want to avoid.

With Nidoking, we basically cover every common thing on stall apart from Rotom (or so I believe; although I'm tired and may have forgotten one or two other things because of that).

EDIT: And suggesting the usage of no Special Attacks on Nidoking is dumb. Fire Blast and Ice Beam are essentially required to handle other things. And if it's not Fire Blast, then Thunderbolt instead.

 

[Gates]

Fair enough. Electivires attack is higher than Dialga's.

Dialga is the same deal, he doesn't have great Atk, he just learns Bulk Up+Brick Break, Outrage, etc.

Then don't give Nido special moves.

How will he deal with Skarm without Fire Blast/Flamethrower?

 

[ss118]

Nidoking can stop the opponent from laying down SR. Nidoqueen asks for it to be set up again.

Unless our starmie is that of the reflect sort, it won't last that long.

 

[Gates]

...what?

Why do we need Nidoking to stop them from setting up SR? He's not going to be our lead.

 

[ss118]

What if a lead realizes it's going to lose? What if they switch? What if they COME BACK IN?

Nidoking has a much higher chance of stopping it at that point than nidoqueen ever will.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Nidoking is versatile as hell when in the offensive role. If you're using Nidoking, it's to fit a niche. And it just happens that we're trying to fit a niche. You people are complaining about what it can't do, but you're not denying its usefulness in what it can to do. The only one to turn it down so far said to use Nidoqueen, which doesn't even fit the niche thanks to its even bigger lack of power and better use for roles that aren't general stallbreaker. If you'd argue anything else to use, you'd argue Tyranitar. Tyranitar, however, doesn't have the Toxic/Thunder Wave immunities that you really want to take on Blissey. Plus it summons up residual damage that we probably want to avoid.

With Nidoking, we basically cover every common thing on stall apart from Rotom (or so I believe; although I'm tired and may have forgotten one or two other things because of that).

EDIT: And suggesting the usage of no Special Attacks on Nidoking is dumb. Fire Blast and Ice Beam are essentially required to handle other things. And if it's not Fire Blast, then Thunderbolt instead.

In general what I'm suggesting is a bulky anti-stall pokemon that generally works along the same lines as gliscor. Sure, nidoqueen doesn't get roost, but it does get taunt+super fang, and toxic spikes are probably THE best way to gradually wear down blissey or at least make it less effective at walling the powerful special threats we're using on this team. Nidoqueen has all the same good immunities Nidoking has, doesn't really have to rely on its crappy attacking stats to deal damage with super fang, and with the ability to also mess up status spreading via taunt, I don't really see how nidoqueen is less equipped to deal with stall than nidoking while running a nice, bulky set like the one I'm suggesting.

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers
252 HP/176 Def/80 Spe
Bold/Impish / Poison Point

Toxic Spikes
Taunt
Super Fang
Earth Power/Earthquake/Fire Blast

The only reason to consider running 80 Spe is to get off a taunt vs. 4 Spe Suicune and other min-speed 85s like Cresselia, otherwise putting some of it in the defenses is a good idea. Trying to outrun skarmory is also a good idea to keep it from spiking up vs. nidoqueen.

Stall-breaking in the general sense is having a nice mixed attacking capability to deal with both types of walls, and while nidoqueen is far from being able to do that, super fang lets you hit any non-ghost for half its health, which is usually more than something like nidoking would be able to do with its LO+coverage moves with the benefit of increased defenses to go along with it. The idea is just that with taunt+toxic spikes being there to help with blissey, Nidoqueen can come in on status and weaker physical hits and not take a lot from ice beam, the best attack blissey could have (42% max). That really is the reason why I think nidoking will NOT be a good stallbreaker simply because all it would take is one SE hit from something faster than it to kill it along with the fact that outside of stall it will not be able to hold its own because it will be outsped by a lot, not to say the least manhandled by other threats like swampert. Even if blissey predicts nidoking coming in, its ice beam will do 50% minimum to it, which really ruins its ability to last and break walls since it needs an LO power boost. Taunt is almost as good at dismantling stall and giving your pokemon opportunities to land hits in as their walls sit there and aren't capable of doing anything of note.

The type of lead that would switch out of starmie would also be outsped by this particular nidoqueen, which means that in a very tit-for-tat way we can keep rocks and other hazards off the field so that even if we're careless with starmie we're not totally ****ed just as long as we scare the other lead off.

Just my opinions.

 

[Circa]

I guess my argument is that Nidoking fits the team better. :\ You're right, that seems like a really good stallbreaking set at least on paper (although it also has Rotom issues, which I wish one of the Nidos could handle...), but I guess I also can't see a set like that functioning on a team that, at least at this point, is extremely offensive. The use of Toxic Spikes on the team seems like too odd an addition, just because the team doesn't exactly benefit from it unless taking on Blissey (and even then, due to this team not utilizing stall on any front, it's not fully benefitting from it. At this point if Nidoqueen never gets the chance to touch Blissey before dying, the team could still have major Blissey issues; Aromatherapy Blissey comes to mind in this case). I think Nidoking is just a better selection for the team as a whole because of this.

Ehhh...if it makes you feel any better though, that Nidoqueen set may have just inspired me enough to make an OU stall team. That may not sound like a big thing, but the fact that I don't play OU anymore outside of tournaments kinda makes it a big thing (for me). That set just seems way too fun to not use.

 

[ss118]

The most used pokemon with Blissey are:

1) Skarmory
2) Scizor
3) Swampert
4) Rotom-h
5) Gyarados
6) Jirachi
7) Salamence
8) Gengar
9) Tyranitar
10) Forretress
11) Breloom
12) Heatran
13) Starmie
14) Latias
15) Infernape
16) Metagross
17) Lucario
18) Hippowdon
19) Celebi
20) Azelf

Also, for usage statistics on Blissey herself:

Blissey | Usage | 86192 | 11.5 |
| Blissey | Ability | Natural Cure | 96.7 |
| Blissey | Ability | Serene Grace | 3.3 |
| Blissey | Item | Leftovers | 97.9 |
| Blissey | Item | No Item | 2.1 |
| Blissey | Nature | Calm | 53.6 |
| Blissey | Nature | Bold | 39.6 |
| Blissey | Nature | Other (4) | < 3.1 |
| Blissey | HP EV | Very Low (<50) | 32.4 |
| Blissey | HP EV | Max | 31.1 |
| Blissey | HP EV | None | 20.8 |
| Blissey | HP EV | Other (4) | < 4.7 |
| Blissey | Attack EV | None | 100.0 |
| Blissey | Defense EV | Max | 87.4 |
| Blissey | Defense EV | None | 10.0 |
| Blissey | Defense EV | Other (2) | < 1.3 |
| Blissey | SpAttack EV | None | 79.0 |
| Blissey | SpAttack EV | Low (50-100) | 7.3 |
| Blissey | SpAttack EV | Other (3) | < 5.6 |
| Blissey | SpDefense EV | None | 35.4 |
| Blissey | SpDefense EV | Very High (200+) | 34.6 |
| Blissey | SpDefense EV | Max | 15.1 |
| Blissey | SpDefense EV | Other (3) | < 6.5 |
| Blissey | Speed EV | None | 97.8 |
| Blissey | Speed EV | Very High (200+) | 2.2 |
| Blissey | Move | Softboiled | 68.1 |
| Blissey | Move | Seismic Toss | 66.6 |
| Blissey | Move | Thunder Wave | 40.7 |
| Blissey | Move | Toxic | 38.6 |
| Blissey | Move | Wish | 37.0 |
| Blissey | Move | Aromatherapy | 31.5 |
| Blissey | Move | Protect | 29.3 |
| Blissey | Move | Flamethrower | 22.7 |
| Blissey | Move | Ice Beam | 21.2 |
| Blissey | Move | Stealth Rock | 10.7 |
| Blissey | Move | Heal Bell | 7.2 |
| Blissey | Move | Other (10) | < 3.9 |

 

[UltiMario]

The most used pokemon with Blissey are:

1) Skarmory

Why do people still do this. It doesn't even really WORK anymore.

 

[Circa]

Why do people still do this. It doesn't even really WORK anymore.

You're obviously doing it wrong.

 

[UltiMario]

Mixed sweepers are everywhere, among other problems :/

SkarmBliss is not good anymore.

 

[supermarth64]

Skarmbliss still works as long as you have support with it.

What if a lead realizes it's going to lose? What if they switch? What if they COME BACK IN?

Nidoking has a much higher chance of stopping it at that point than nidoqueen ever will.

If they come back in, I see no reason for them to come in on Nidoking, which means by the time you get Nidoking in, they'll have SR already on the turn you switch in.

 

[Wave⁂]

Why do people still do this. It doesn't even really WORK anymore.

Who else would you pick to complement Blissey?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Why Shedinja, of course.

Regardless it's still a discussion on either Nidoking or Nidoqueen, right?

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

Skarmbliss still works as long as you have support with it.

Everything works if you have support to go with it. Point?

Who else would you pick to complement Blissey?

Scizor.

Its like Skarmory except it ***** the face off of whatever wants to counter Blissey rather than wall it :V

 

[Wave⁂]

I'd like to see Scizor **** Infernape.

 

[UltiMario]

I'd like to See Skarm do better.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm not saying Skarmory is better than Scizor, I'm saying neither Scizor nor Skarmory are perfect; nothing is.

 

[mood4food77]

at least scizor can deal damage to infernape before he dies
skarmory just....dies

i don't like the idea of having tyrantitar on the team, since yanmega is carrying life orb, he is going to be losing health fast

that's the only reason i'm not supporting tyranitar

i like using infernape as a stall breaker
nidoking and nidoqueen pretty much get ***** in OU, they do not deal anywhere close to enough damage to be wall breakers and neither have the HP nor defenses to stay in long enough (they get 2HKO'd by almost every threat)

breloom is amazing <3!

 

[Gates]

lol you people have no idea how to use Skarmory

 

[mood4food77]

i meant against infernape

it's not hard to use, it's pretty similar to swampert
set up annoyance move, whirlwind away

 

[Wave⁂]

How about Rest Talk Machamp as a status absorber?

Also, you don't use Skarmory against Infernape. Unless you OHKO it on the switch with Brave Bird, which would be funny.

 

[mood4food77]

breloom is a better status absorber than machamp is and has better synergy to work with and with spore, it removes one of the opponents threats for a while

machamp is a great pokemon, but it's not a great status absorber, it's more of an annoyer like, you don't send it out to take the status, it's going to be out already and then absorb the status

 

[UltiMario]

lol you people have no idea how to use Skarmory

I do.

Its just that this isn't Gen 2.... or even Gen 3 anymore -_-

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

at least scizor can deal damage to infernape before he dies

What moves does a normal Scizor run that are going to do any real damage to Infernape?

Yeah, pretty much nothing.

 

[UltiMario]

Superpower and Brick Break.

 

[kirbyraeg]

sheesh. If we're talking about how to beat blissey the best way is to just trap it and explode on it a la HeaTrap or SubExplosion Gengar, or turning the **** blob into a setup opportunity (SubCM Missy).

Stallbreaking in general is best done by unexpected threats in ways that let them beat their traditional counters. Awesome stuff that doesn't get used like MixMamo and MixMence or MixNite can work as wallbreakers in ways that aren't usually suspected or guarded against with stall. More effective vs. stall are moves like Taunt and Encore, which not only **** up their plans but gives you setup opportunities to break through stall yourself.

 

[Gates]

Also, you don't use Skarmory against Infernape. Unless you OHKO it on the switch with Brave Bird, which would be funny.

This is the correct answer. You DON'T use Skarmory against Infernape, you switch to Gyarados (or whatever your Infernape counter is). Now let's stop this dumb discussion.

Superpower and Brick Break.

Infernape outspeeds, you'd have to hit him with these on the switch, and even then Brave Bird would be just as good.

breloom is a better status absorber than machamp[...]machamp is a great pokemon, but it's not a great status absorber,[...]I clearly don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to pokemon[...]Tauros is still good right?

RESTTALK Machamp. The only status you NEED to absorb is sleep since it's the only one that can't be worked around. Toxic can be absorbed by steel and poison types, paralysis can be absorbed by ground types for electric attacks and ghosts for Body Slam, burn can be absorbed by fire types, but there are 0 elemental types that absorb sleep, which is why a resttalker is needed. On top of that, Resttalkers can also absorb other status ailments since they have, you know, Rest.

Resttalk Machamp is a step in the right direction but he furthers the flying weakness of the team. Perhaps another resttalker?

 

[Wave⁂]

Flying weakness is irrelevant.

Heatran and Gengar aren't the best Blissey counters, to be honest, since any good player knows they often carry Explosion. HeaTrap is unreliable, and doesn't do much aside from kill Blissey (along with itself).

 

[mood4food77]

we already have starmie
and when breloom gets poisoned, he can come in on any status and nothing happens
having spore is great and will compliment yanmega so much better than just going in to absorb status

breloom is possibly the best blissey counter there is, no worry to status, outspeeds and can put it to sleep, forcing it to switch (if blissey switches, a breloom counter is put to sleep, which also helps yanmega out in teh long run, 1 less poke to worry about)

the 3 main resttalkers are machamp, vaporeon, and suicune
vapo and suicune are much more annoying sleep talkers than machamp since they can absorb hits better and burn does nothing to their better attack stat, so they can wait to use rest unlike machamp, who would have to use it right away

oh and being the only pokemon resistance to edgequake is a huge plus too

 

[Gates]

Vapo as a resttalker? I have never seen or heard of that. Where did you hear that from? Gyarados is probably a more common resttalker than Vapo.

 

[Wave⁂]

lol, Rest Talk Vaporeon is setup bait for, well, everything.

Off the top of my head, common Rest Talkers:
Machamp
Heracross
CroCune
BulkyGyara
Rotom-A
CurseLax
Bronzong

 

[mood4food77]

resttalk vapo is like the only one i run into outside of BP and wish passers

 

[Wave⁂]

Play more DPPt. Rest and Sleep Talk are on less than 4.6% of Vaporeon.

 

[supermarth64]

resttalk vapo is like the only one i run into outside of BP and wish passers

Wait, you actually run a Vaporeon that's different from those two?

Loling.

 

[mood4food77]

i don't use vapo...read the post right

 

[Wave⁂]

Well, now that we have decided that mood4food needs to lurk moar...

Status Absorbers:
Breloom
Rest Talk Machamp
Nidoking / Nidoqueen