Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[Kaye Cruiser]

I hope this is appropriate to ask here, I don't wana bring up ridiculous things. I know the main purpoise of Project M is to make it feel like a sequel to Melee, but now with the clone engine I feel like this could be doable.

So ganondorf... hes always been a huge concern of mine since he was released as a clone in melee. It bothered me so much since day one. So i was wondering if with the clone engine this could create the option/opportunity to port another character over ganondorf (just skin and audio effects mainly). For example black shadow or demise could work great as a ganondorf replacement. This would keep that character move set in the game while opening the door to perhaps giving ganondorf his own move set.

Anyone feel the same about that?

So basically, change Ganon to actually fight like and give his Falcon clone moveset to a new F-Zero character, which would probably be either Black Shadow or Blood Falcon. (I'd personally be happy with Phoenix, but I know no one knows who he is. lol)

Neat idea, but I dunno if they'd go for it or if anyone else would.

I also have a question to ask in regarding your stance on new characters...The whole reason you're not adding anyone from Smash 4, like Mega Man, is because you don't want to compete with Smash 4 in any way while it's still in the works and hasn't bee released. Putting Roy in, however, is perfectly fine because Melee has been finished for a long time and as such, you aren't competing with it in any way.

So does that mean you would feel safer and have no problem adding things from Smash 4 a little while after it was released as well? Or am I thinking too deeply on this one?

 

[| Kailex |]

No, no offense but.... Go kill yourself :meleeganondorf:

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

The Zelda trio all need their OoT skins.

It'll have a PM player like

(If anyone knows how to edit gifs there needs to be a version of this with Fox or Falco's head over this dude. Perfect for those pillar combo/shinespke/waveshine trolling moments.)

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

So basically, change Ganon to actually fight like and give his Falcon clone moveset to a new F-Zero character, which would probably be either Black Shadow or Blood Falcon. (I'd personally be happy with Phoenix, but I know no one knows who he is. lol)

Neat idea, but I dunno if they'd go for it or if anyone else would.

I also have a question to ask in regarding your stance on new characters...The whole reason you're not adding anyone from Smash 4, like Mega Man, is because you don't want to compete with Smash 4 in any way while it's still in the works and hasn't bee released. Putting Roy in, however, is perfectly fine because Melee has been finished for a long time and as such, you aren't competing with it in any way.

So does that mean you would feel safer and have no problem adding things from Smash 4 a little while after it was released as well? Or am I thinking too deeply on this one?

Ya exactly, and i was thinking since characters like black shadow or blood falcon are trophies and such in brawl, this would be doable.. the pmbr did say their additions would be limited to characters that show up in brawl in some way.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

No, no offense but.... Go kill yourself :meleeganondorf:

Thats not very nice..

I really dont know what peoples fixation is with ganondorf staying a clone.. if his moves were transferred to another character, that character would be the one you would treat as the current ganondorf. it would make no difference in that sense. And then there could be a proper ganondorf representation in the game.

I do realize this isnt a priority of project M, and it would even be difficult to make a whole revamp of ganondorf etc, but it would be nice if they gave it some kind of thought for the future.

 

[| Kailex |]

No no no no, I want ganondorf, not another fzero character. GANONDORF

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

No no no no, I want ganondorf, not another fzero character. GANONDORF

I feel like you misread his post. XD

He's not saying "get rid of Ganondorf", he's saying "make Ganon actually fight like Ganon".

Or are you just displaying that "cause Melee" mentality for us? :3

 

[| Kailex |]

Not cause melee, i just love him the way he currently is; make another ganondorf if you want, ill be happy too but not if the current ganondorf is changed

 

[Comeback Kid]

Oot Ganondorf really isn't that different, except instead of a projectile you have dark energy from his body directly.

And it makes no sense to keep his power magic user feel while also giving him some kind of fast moving Lucario ball.

I'm sick of swordsmen at this point if that's what this is really about. We officially have enough.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Oot Ganondorf really isn't that different, except instead of a projectile you have dark energy from his body directly.

And it makes no sense to keep his power magic user feel while also giving him some kind of fast moving Lucario ball.

I'm sick of swordsmen at this point if that's what this is really about. We officially have enough.

There are WAY more fist fighters in Smash than sword users. Stop whining. XD

Besides, Ganon has more than just swords, too.

 

[| Kailex |]

Ganondorf already has a sword (d-taunt)

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Ganondorf already has a sword (d-taunt)

Exactly, which means making him used it wouldn't be adding another swordsman to the game at all. It'd just be making him actually use it. ¦D

I rest my case. ¦3

 

[Chzrm3]

I want Ganondorf to stay the way he is, too. Sorry, I just love him way too much. He's one of my favorites, and I'd be pretty sad if I couldn't punch people in the face with his meaty fair anymore!

 

[Anti Guy]

I want Ganondorf to stay the way he is, too. Sorry, I just love him way too much. He's one of my favorites, and I'd be pretty sad if I couldn't punch people in the face with his meaty fair anymore!

Wow, I think all of you guys are missing the point.

The idea is to have Ganondorf AND his moveset completely the same, but just reskin and rename him as another character (Black Shadow)... i.e. you can still punch people in the face with meaty fairs, etc. Then use the clone spot to create a new Ganondorf with a more unique, non-cloned moveset.

 

[| Kailex |]

Double ganondorf please; but no skin for ganondorf, only textures

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I think to avoid any copyright issues they'll have to use content that already is in game. So that narrows it down to assist trophies and possibly actual trophies. So as a point of reference here's what they could use (that could actually be characters, I'm not counting red shell or bumper)

Hammer Bro, Isaac, Kat+Ana, Samurai Goroh, Shadow the Hedgehog, Waluigi, Bowser JR, Birdo, Wolf Link + Midna, Ridley, Palutena, Villager, Tom Nook, K.K. Slider, Tails, Knuckles

Maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a bit of a community vote on it?

I edited my picks above. Personally I would be super hyped for Wolf Link + Midna, Tails, K.K. Slider or Kat+Ana. Kat+Ana or Wolf Link in particular would shake things up a bit I think.

 

[Tuvillo]

Is it even possible to make custom Ice Climbers? Wouldn't it cause the same problems the Ice Climbers are causing themselves?

It might also take up 2 of the 7 slots, if that's something people care about.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Well, I was mostly speaking from a purely ideal standpoint. They used to say that a fully functional clone engine was an optimistic idea at best, and now they not only have said engine but have already finished a character with it. I'll admit I don't know much about how it works but if they've gotten this far, there's no telling how far it is possible for them to go.

That said, another Ice Climbers-like character would be a refreshing add as currently only Ice Climbers have two characters playing as one, and seeing some new ideas for movesets would be really interesting. They could also do something similar for Wolf Link + Midna, now that I think about it.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Wow, I think all of you guys are missing the point.

The idea is to have Ganondorf AND his moveset completely the same, but just reskin and rename him as another character (Black Shadow)... i.e. you can still punch people in the face with meaty fairs, etc. Then use the clone spot to create a new Ganondorf with a more unique, non-cloned moveset.

It's an interesting thought, though forcing people who enjoy the way Ganondorf currently plays to use a character that they might not like (Black Shadow) just to have the same play doesn't sound very good. Personally, if Black Shadow were to be added to the game, I'd prefer him to be somewhere in the middle of Falcon and Ganondorf than to be what we currently have as Ganondorf.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Except that he doesn't fight like Ganondorf does, he fights like a bigger, heavier C. Falcon. who he has absolutely no connection to.

Flame Choke and Sparta Kick are the only moves from the Zelda games that he has, and those should stay with him. okay and the Final Smash lol. an ideal Ganondorf would probably switch between the Twilight Princess sword, a trident, and magical attacks, with a few kick and punch moves thrown in there.

which would likely massivly eclipse the 700 hours that it took for Roy.

also it would not be hard to give current Ganondorf a few sword attacks from TP. Snake got an all new weapon that was not even in the code in Brawl, I would imagine that giving Ganondorf a few moves with a weapon that already has a model in the game to be easier.

also the total lack of mention for Dark Samus as a candidate is sad to me. no, it would not be a clone, watch some gameplay vídeos from Prime 2 and 3. if no to Ridley than Metroid Prime would be the next best thing imo

 

[Veishi336]

...... Wolf Link in particular would shake things up a bit I think.

Ummmm i approve of this post lol. That would be one hell of an interesting character. but i dont think they would make him though since (i dont think) there isnt a base for the wolf

 

[Chzrm3]

Wow, I think all of you guys are missing the point.

The idea is to have Ganondorf AND his moveset completely the same, but just reskin and rename him as another character (Black Shadow)... i.e. you can still punch people in the face with meaty fairs, etc. Then use the clone spot to create a new Ganondorf with a more unique, non-cloned moveset.

Oh yeah, I get that - it's just not something I would enjoy. I don't want to punch people as Black Shadow. I've really gotten attached to Ganondorf and the way he fights. I'm sure a sword/magic based moveset could be fun, but at this point it seems as strange to me as turning DK into a projectile-character who's throwing barrels, orange-bombs and using a coconut gun, then setting up Chunky as a character that plays exactly the way DK plays now. Sure, those are things and yeah, you could totally do it, but I love playing as DK and I've got a pretty tight attachment to both the character and his playstyle. Changing that up solely for the sake of change seems unnecessary.

That's part of the beauty of the clone engine, though; my opinion here doesn't really conflict with your desires. Hypothetically, if and when it is ready for public usage, you could take it upon yourself to make Black Shadow as a direct Ganondorf clone, and then change Ganondorf's moves so he fights with a sword. All the people who agree with you that Ganondorf should play differently could download your variant on him, and all the people like me could continue playing him the way he is. In fact, the other people in this thread who seem very passionate about Ganondorf being changed could join you on the project, and help you get things done way faster.

If this is something you guys are passionate about, then you can start doing some preliminary prep now (including brushing up on how to code/rig models/all that good stuff), and then begin your grand Gdorf project when the clone engine is released! :D (of course, it could be years, and it could never release, since it's so difficult to turn something like that into something safe for the public to use, but coding/animation skills are good to know anyway, so you wouldn't be doing yourself a disservice by learning that stuff).

Hopefully I don't seem like I'm being dismissive of your ideas/passions. On the contrary, I've actually been doing the same sort of planning for my own brawl modding aspirations. : > This feels a little embarrassing, but I'm actually taking several video-game development courses right now with the primary reason being a sweet job, and the secondary reason being that I'd like to either help out the PMBR one day, or work on some character mods with the brawl vault community. And if it wasn't for PM, I doubt I would've taken the plunge and started these courses at all, cause I already have a job, so the motivation of "video-game job" wasn't as strong.

Now I'm totally rambling, sorry! <_<

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Heart-felt rambling that's too big to keep as a quote.

What you're emotionally attached to is wrong and shouldn't exist. Give it up, OR ELSE YOU WILL DIE!

On a MUCH less joking note, that DK and Chunky comparison doesn't work. DK is already doing things that DK does, so there'd be no reason to change him or add Chunky.

Not matter how attached to this Ganon you are, it's NOT Ganon. It may look like Ganon, but it doesn't act like Ganon. Ganon should act like Ganon, fight like Ganon, and Ganon like Ganon. Ganon Ganon Ganon Ganon. I might as well be saying "Darkness" in a Kingdom Hearts discussion. XD

For how this idea would work, it technically wouldn't be that Black Shadow is just a clone of Ganon, but more that he'd be the semi-clone of Falcon that makes sense. That way, Ganon can be the Ganon we deserve and the Ganon we need right now. Try seeing it like that. :3

Wow. 17. I need to extend my vocabulary. Maybe I'll start calling him "Jerry". ¦D

 

[Tuvillo]

Kingdom Hearts Darkness Drinking Game!

I think arguments to NOT do something are always more powerful than arguments to do so, though. Black Shadow as Falcon's meaty clone would make a ton of sense and Ganondorf being himself is good, but if there's people that don't enjoy this, it's going to be more powerful than the (Possibly) larger group of people that DO want it.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

No offense, but how could you honestly think this?

1. Shadow is a 3rd party character, so there could very well be licensing issues (despite that he is an Assist Trophy).

2. Smash, above anything else, is a game about Nintendo all-stars. Only the most famous and cherished guests get a chance to make it in. A random side character from a game that already has a representative doesn't fit this criteria. There are certain things that the PM devs need to respect about the "spirit" of Smash and Sakurai, and above anything else, character selection should be put on a pedestal. Sakurai has stated that 3rd parties are chosen with the utmost consideration and discretion. Smash is largely about who deserves to get in; why does Shadow deserve it anymore than Tails or Knuckles, characters that are both older and more popular? Why does Shadow deserve to get in over any Nintendo character for that matter? Because he's "bad-***"? Since when has that helped anyone get in? He had one game, and it completely flopped. Shadow is neither a classic character, an important character in the history of gaming, nor an icon of any kind. I think this is the most important and obvious point.

3. Shadow would be a clone of Sonic, who is already possibly the most controversial character in Project M. Designing and balancing him, along with dealing with his fan-base, would be a nightmare for the PMBR and anyone playing the game.

4. The fact that he is an Assist Trophy does not assist in the character creation process at all, as the animations, textures, and model would likely have to be rebuilt from scratch anyway. It is very doubtful that the PMBR would build off of any pre-existing hack attempts.

I'm sorry, but out of all of the most commonly posted suggestions around here, Shadow is definitely the worst choice. This rant isn't' directed at you, but your wording was just too good to pass up.

I'm sure the PMBR shares this opinion, but god damn.

It's my opinion, he's very popular

1. I don't believe that considering they said characters already in the game in some form can be considered

2. The criteria is a load of bull to begin with, who in the hell wanted Wii Fit Trainer? And Sakurai considered the Sonic characters to be important enough to create models for 3 of them and put Shadow as an assist trophy, and as I recall from polls, Shadow is #2 in popularity just below Sonic, even if that changed I can't think it's by much, and making a moveset for Shadow would be a hell of a lot easier than coming up with random moves for tails and more interesting than having a bland fist-based moveset for knuckles, I love all the characters but I think Shadow brings more diversity to the table than any of the other characters because of all his crazy ass powers, honestly I think this is a stupid point your making and it seems like it's only backed by your sheer biased hatred for the character

3. No, just no, it's so blatantly obvious that he wouldn't be that I refuse to believe you actually think this

4. Read that just recently, but regardless there are plenty of ideas for the character out there already what with multiple movesets and he's backed by enough popularity, plus wasn't it said that having a similar skeleton to a character already in brawl helps? He has the same skeleton as Sonic

And I fully disagree with you

I think he's a good choice after the obvious one's like Mewtwo

And megaman isn't happening cause he isn't in brawl, why do people keep bringing him up?

 

[Doomolish]

I think adding Megaman would be a great way of advertising P:M. I don't like him, but soooooooooooooo many casuals do.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Kingdom Hearts Darkness Drinking Game!

I think arguments to NOT do something are always more powerful than arguments to do so, though. Black Shadow as Falcon's meaty clone would make a ton of sense and Ganondorf being himself is good, but if there's people that don't enjoy this, it's going to be more powerful than the (Possibly) larger group of people that DO want it.

It's less that they "don't enjoy it" and more that they're too scared of change to actually give it a try first. People have a bad tendency of not following the tried and true method of "don't knock it til ya try it". ¦D

And you want Darkness? I'll give you double the dose of EVERLASTING DARKNESS! D<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzNWN5cDWsk&t=1m18s

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Ummmm i approve of this post lol. That would be one hell of an interesting character. but i dont think they would make him though since (i dont think) there isnt a base for the wolf

Well, all the characters I took from the original post were either Assist Trophies or regular Trophies, so there is some kind of base for them. However, the animations would have to be made completely from scratch (unless they modify some from a character like Pikachu who has four-legged animations, but it would still be challenging)

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Oot Ganondorf really isn't that different, except instead of a projectile you have dark energy from his body directly.

And it makes no sense to keep his power magic user feel while also giving him some kind of fast moving Lucario ball.

I'm sick of swordsmen at this point if that's what this is really about. We officially have enough.

I wouldn't want ganondorf to be a sword based character either... maybe a couple of sword moves, but not as his main move set.
Id base his moves mainly on magic and change the way he plays completely. First of all he should be able to float hased on that should have his attributes adjusted.

His B move would obviously be a magic ball - and there can be many twists added to it so its not another lucario type move (like it can be hit back by attacks not just reflectors, and a full charge makes it a scatter shot like in OOT - i have lots of interesting deeper ideas for this to make it more original)

Then he needs his ground smashing move from the air like in OOT, he could also perhaps have a move where he shoots electricity in some way to have some link to the past representation, and he should use some kind of dark magic moves as well (id say some kinda dark force push like in the piano room when u meet him in OOT).

Right now hes too much of a melee combat fighter, hes supposed to use lots of flashy projectiles.
And my solution still allows the game to keep that moves set in the game so no one would be missing it. And at the same time we can get another magic using fighter. Right now theres basically only Zelda (lucas and ness are psychic not magic).

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I want Ganondorf to stay the way he is, too. Sorry, I just love him way too much. He's one of my favorites, and I'd be pretty sad if I couldn't punch people in the face with his meaty fair anymore!

Thats why my suggestion is to transfer his moves completely to another character. I love playing as ganondorf too, but i very badly want a True representation of ganondorf. Nintendo making him a clone was the stupidest idea ever and whoever had that idea should be fired. A c falcon clone should have been black shadow or blood falcon. It makes no sense at all.

NONE

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Now on another note cause this is on my mind too.
I know this is all wishful thinking, but some other characters id REALLY love to see who do show up in brawl already in some way (in order from most wanted):

Edit: Im excluding MewTwo from this list only because I'm already convinced that hes gona be in a future release 10000000000%

- Ray from custom robo

- Issak from golden sun

- Masks Link (always has a mask on and can use down b to switch masks like pokemon trainer would with the pokemon)
I know that one is very unlikely, but god how awesome would that be? - Final smash ONI LINKKKK

- Ridly

- Dark Samus

- Saki from sin and punishment

- Little Mac from punch out

- King K. Rule/Captain K. Rule

I think that covers my list.

Obviously I'd love mega man and a few other obvious popular characters (Geno, Chrono), but like it has been said, the PMBR can only consider characters that already show up in the game.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[HyperrCrow]

Just edit your first post, no need to triple post responses.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I like the idea of an accurate Ganondorf, but there are multiple questions bouncing around in my head that seem to conflict with the idea. To what extent would Ganonorf need to be changed and how accurate would you want him to be? Would he have a reflectable projectile like he does in Ocarina of Time (And ALTTP as Agahnim), even for non reflecting attacks? Would he have a more melee oriented fighting style like he does in Wind Waker, where he dual wields against you (And has a hell of a backhand)? Would he be even slower, like he seems to be in his Twilight Princess style, with his exaggerated stab and swings?

There are multiple levels that this could be taken to, and most of them sound pretty bad because Ganondorf is a pathetic boss in most encounters. It's an oddity considering how much he gets built up in the Zelda series, only to get repeatedly thrashed by a child/teen. His duel with Link at the end of Twilight Princess is one of the most pathetic fights from Ganondorf, in the history of Zelda, it's pretty clear that he's not that skilled with the blade. That said, why do people seem to want him to use a sword?

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Ganondorf is the character in Smash and he only transforms into Ganon during his Final Smash. Ganondorf doesn't use a trident in any game in the series, that's an iconic part of the pig-man Ganon transformation.

 

[Urielhelix]

I like the idea of an accurate Ganondorf, but there are multiple questions bouncing around in my head that seem to conflict with the idea. To what extent would Ganonorf need to be changed and how accurate would you want him to be? Would he have a reflectable projectile like he does in Ocarina of Time (And ALTTP as Agahnim), even for non reflecting attacks? Would he have a more melee oriented fighting style like he does in Wind Waker, where he dual wields against you (And has a hell of a backhand)? Would he be even slower, like he seems to be in his Twilight Princess style, with his exaggerated stab and swings?

There are multiple levels that this could be taken to, and most of them sound pretty bad because Ganondorf is a pathetic boss in most encounters. It's an oddity considering how much he gets built up in the Zelda series, only to get repeatedly thrashed by a child/teen. His duel with Link at the end of Twilight Princess is one of the most pathetic fights from Ganondorf, in the history of Zelda, it's pretty clear that he's not that skilled with the blade. That said, why do people seem to want him to use a sword?

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Ganondorf is the character in Smash and he only transforms into Ganon during his Final Smash. Ganondorf doesn't use a trident in any game in the series, that's an iconic part of the pig-man Ganon transformation.

I agree completely. and another thing to think about is if you moved his move set to another player who would it be?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

This is Smash. They mix things up all the time. Mario only uses fireballs when he's Fire Mario, yet he can do it anytime in Smash. Pokemon can only use 4 move, yet they all use more than four with their different attacks. Everyone's sizes are all off. Ike and Ganon can be harmed by anyone, anytime. Sonic can go Super on and off with no problem. Pit's wings don't burn up not matter how many times he flies. R.O.B. is an active robot instead of a toy.

GAME & WATCH.

There's tons of things. Plus, in regards to bosses, Bowser and Dedede aren't exactly the most competent of bosses either, but that doesn't stop them from being true to their characters, does it?

Sorry, but that all just sounds like nitpicking to me. Smash has had OoT and TP Ganondorf, so he would most likely be a merge of the two in his moveset design. He gets sword stuff, which can always be improved, and he gets magic stuff. he could even borrow some things from the Phantom Ganons.

There's plenty of things that can be done if you don't limit your thinking due to paranoia or not wanting to change.

If Falcon and the Star Fox crew can be given movesets that fit their characters and stand out on their own despite not having enough in their actual series to aid them with it, Ganondorf can do the same thing without being a simple clone of Captain Falcon.

In other words, you're thinking too "inside-the-box" are trying WAY too hard to use normal logic in a Nintendo game.

Stop that.

I agree completely. and another thing to think about is if you moved his move set to another player who would it be?

Read all the posts before saying anything. We already stated it'd be Black Shadow or Blood Falcon. Both being from F-Zero and making them perfect counterparts to Falcon.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

This is Smash. They mix things up all the time. Mario only uses fireballs when he's Fire Mario, yet he can do it anytime in Smash. Pokemon can only use 4 move, yet they all use more than four with their different attacks. Everyone's sizes are all off. Ike and Ganon can be harmed by anyone, anytime. Sonic can go Super on and off with no problem. Pit's wings don't burn up not matter how many times he flies. R.O.B. is an active robot instead of a toy.

GAME & WATCH.

There's tons of things. Plus, in regards to bosses, Bowser and Dedede aren't exactly the most competent of bosses either, but that doesn't stop them from being true to their characters, does it?

Sorry, but that all just sounds like nitpicking to me. Smash has had OoT and TP Ganondorf, so he would most likely be a merge of the two in his moveset design. He gets sword stuff, which can always be improved, and he gets magic stuff. he could even borrow some things from the Phantom Ganons.

There's plenty of things that can be done if you don't limit your thinking due to paranoia or not wanting to change.

If Falcon and the Star Fox crew can be given movesets that fit their characters and stand out on their own despite not having enough in their actual series to aid them with it, Ganondorf can do the same thing without being a simple clone of Captain Falcon.

In other words, you're thinking too "inside-the-box" are trying WAY too hard to use normal logic in a Nintendo game.

Stop that.

While it's true that this game gave fighting styles to characters that previously didn't really have them, and sort of breaks the rules of the character's universe to give them these attacks, Ganondorf has a very specific style to him in the Zelda series. I'm curious what you'd want to draw the inspiration for his attacks from. I probably am nit-picking too much, but I'm interested in what could work and comparing it to how effective he is in the games he came from and getting disappointed.

I'm also sick, so it could be making me see things in stupid ways, I'm trying not to let it.

 

[Chzrm3]

What you're emotionally attached to is wrong and shouldn't exist. Give it up, OR ELSE YOU WILL DIE!

On a MUCH less joking note, that DK and Chunky comparison doesn't work. DK is already doing things that DK does, so there'd be no reason to change him or add Chunky.

Not matter how attached to this Ganon you are, it's NOT Ganon. It may look like Ganon, but it doesn't act like Ganon.

I think Smash has actually defined a lot of characters moreso than their original games. A good example of this is probably Kid Icarus - Sakurai re-imagined him for Brawl, and then that re-imagined version was how he was represented in KI:U. You can also see it with characters like Captain Falcon, ICies, etc. (haha! I forgot to finish this thought! :D)

To tie that back to Gdorf, there's never been a video game where I've ever played as him except for Smash. I'm not actually sure if there are even other places to play as him, but if there are, I've never seen or heard of them. This is legitimately the only context in which I can be Ganondorf.

I've been playing as this version of Ganondorf for about 12 years now, though. In my mind, Ganondorf doesn't even have a sword. He's just a brolic dude that punches and kicks people around. : D It's not entirely inaccurate, either - he's a Gerudo after all, and the fact that he's a really skilled hand-to-hand fighter that also augments himself with dark magic is pretty appropriate. He may not have the shadowy balls from OoT or the sword from TP, but again - DK doesn't have his coconut gun or orange grenades. I don't think a character necessarily needs to come equipped with everything they've ever used to be an acceptable representation of themselves. When you're dealing with something more open-ended, like "how does it feel to play as a boss?", that interpretation can vary wildly.

Of course, we all know that the initial reason Gdorf is a clone is time constraints, but that moveset is as much a part of him now as Falco's or Roy's.

I guess that's my point. A lot of people say "he doesn't fight like Ganondorf!", but to me, this is the definitive way that Ganondorf fights.

It's less that they "don't enjoy it" and more that they're too scared of change to actually give it a try first. People have a bad tendency of not following the tried and true method of "don't knock it til ya try it". ¦D

For me, it's more that I don't think it's the best use of the PM BR's resources and time. I'm sure I'd love a re-imagining of Ganondorf if it was done by them with their standards and quality... I'm just not sure that's a good use of ~700 hours, considering they'd just be taking a classic character that's already pretty beloved and enjoyable to play, and changing his moves just to fit in with people's image of what he "should've" been 12 years ago. That's why I encouraged you guys to get into the modding scene yourselves - a passionate group of people who feel that Ganondorf should fight differently could definitely come up with something interesting.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

While it's true that this game gave fighting styles to characters that previously didn't really have them, and sort of breaks the rules of the character's universe to give them these attacks, Ganondorf has a very specific style to him in the Zelda series. I'm curious what you'd want to draw the inspiration for his attacks from. I probably am nit-picking too much, but I'm interested in what could work and comparing it to how effective he is in the games he came from and getting disappointed.

I'm also sick, so it could be making me see things in stupid ways, I'm trying not to let it.

Very understandable. Try to get some rest though, okay? :3

Not good for you to exert yourself in debates like these when you're sick. you'll get a lot worse, trust me. ¦D;

Your post is too damn big.

Your headcanon means absolutely little in regards to this idea and discussion, so I'm completely disregarding that. Sorry. ¦D

Roy is in P:M and has been reworked so that he's hardly even a clone of Marth anymore. In addition to that, while from different games, they're from the same series. It's nowhere near as jarring. The same applies to Falco even moreso. Also, what does it matter if you think it's not the best use of their resources and time? People often say they think they're wasting their time with this whole project, but those thoughts doesn't mean a damn thing in the long run, does it? XD

If they think it's a good idea, then they'll do it. If they don't, they won't. You're talking as if you're cared that everything I'm saying is set in stone when it's only an idea I'm pitching out there. I'm aware some people are against it, but that doesn't mean I'll take it back. It'll still be there. If you think it's not a good idea, then fine, but you're not going to limit anyone from trying to get it to be heard by professing against it with your nostalgic love for the opposite. I'm sorry. At this rate, we'll just go back and forth, so it'd be best to agree to disagree then live and let live from this point on.

Oh, and if you wanna see some people do that on their own time, it's already been done a million times if you go over to KC:MM's forum and BrawlVault. That's precisely why some of us are pitching out to P:M.

Cause they could do it better.

Phew! There...I think that about wraps things up. :3

 

[Urielhelix]

Read all the posts before saying anything. We already stated it'd be Black Shadow or Blood Falcon. Both being from F-Zero and making them perfect counterparts to Falcon.

Sorry about that, i even read that.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Very understandable. Try to get some rest though, okay? :3

Not good for you to exert yourself in debates like these when you're sick. you'll get a lot worse, trust me. ¦D;

I'm not debating though, I'm just curious what you'd wanna see him do. I'm not against the idea of changing Ganondorf, I can just see the reasons why people wouldn't want him changed from how he currently is. I need to rest for a while, but lay out what you'd want him to do and I'll get back to it with curiousity...or enthusiasm...whichever one makes more sense at the moment.