Data "Chimera Laboratory" - Lucas moveset discussion

[FullMoon]

I wonder if N-Air will keep it's absurd damage output. If so, Lucas is going to get a lot of damage out of one grab. I'm actually happy that Lucas doesn't have an amazing grab, though, as it means he won't become an overpowered braindead combo-er by using D-Throw to some random aerial. Even if he does have throw combos, which he most likely will, he can't rely solely on it like other characters can as the grab is super punishable. That also means the Lucas boards will generally stay with MOTHER 3 fans instead of tryhards who want a top tier to main. If Lucas keeps his advanced techniques, he could end up like Peach, where he's a really good character with a high skill ceiling, so there's not a billion of them.

That's actually something somewhat positive that came out of Greninja's nerfs, it made so that people that just wanted a top tier character to main drop him and so his players are more people who are actually fans of the character.

Greninja's higher skill ceiling helps too.

 

[Buddy002]

So everyone is getting super hyped about Down throw's bury. However, in my eyes, I can see being both great and problematic. You are probably thinking that I am crazy, but here me out. When someone comes out of a bury, they get sent straight up, and at a decent height too. Take Villager's Dsmash for instance. At high percentages, they sit in the ground for a while, and you can pull of a Fsmash, or any aerial. But at low percentages, they pop out of the ground almost instantaneously. You can't do anything with it.

What does this mean for Lucas? Well, if the throw is considered a bury, they will fly a certain distance, and pretty quickly too. Lucas most likely won't have the time to pull off a double jump and get an aerial off. This is where Dthrow could prove problematic.

However, at higher percentages, it could potentially be one of the best throws in the game. You will have unlimited options. You can be safe, and get a nice nair in for racking up damage, or (assuming Usmash is still the beast it was in Brawl) you can pull off a riskier Usmash (Why is it risky? Because knockback is lower when buried, and you would have to hit them right as they pop out of the ground).

Keep in mind that this is all dependent on if the game actually considers this a bury. Thanks for reading, and have a good one!

 

[Drippy]

It's been technically confirmed it's not a bury, it's just a visual effect. I know not 100% by the developers but watching the trailer it becomes pretty clear.

 

[Spirst]

@ Buddy002 I have merged your thread with the existing moveset discussion thread where it better belongs.

 

[Buddy002]

Ah, ok, that makes sense, @ D Drippy . Thanks!

@ Spirst , thank you, sorry for the trouble!

 

[spiderfreak1011]

That reminds me, i never really used Lucas's PSI Magnet to deal damage in Brawl, anyone know how was it's Damage/KO power back then? I wouldn't expect it to be that powerful, given the kind of move it is.

 

[GreninjaTwo]

That reminds me, i never really used Lucas's PSI Magnet to deal damage in Brawl, anyone know how was it's Damage/KO power back then? I wouldn't expect it to be that powerful, given the kind of move it is.

I dunno, replaying Brawl, Lucas' PSI Magnet Zap is pretty strong. It KO's Mario at about 125% damage. It's more meant to be a disruptor than a KO move anyways. It does 9% damage.

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I dunno, replaying Brawl, Lucas' PSI Magnet Zap is pretty strong. It KO's Mario at about 125% damage. It's more meant to be a disruptor than a KO move anyways. It does 9% damage.

Ah, ok then. I'll remember that when he comes out in game.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

DThrow not being a functional bury is good. It'd be overused, people would see it coming from a mile away, and it would probably end up having a frame DISadvantage most of the time, if not just very minuscule frame advantage.

 

[FlynnCL]

I seriously hope they keep his Brawl short-hop down-aerial.

If they ruin the auto-cancel timings (which I'm expecting after what they did to everyone else) or replace it with a generic slow meteor I'm gonna be extremely sad.

 

[Luco]

Having a combo throw is much better than having a kill throw, though. I'd rather have a combo throw to rack up damage, then kill with those super powered smashes instead of having a random kill throw.

Ness being top tier says otherwise. All they ever complain about is Bthrow!

But I see your point that a combo throw is incredibly important. All of Lucas' throws were reasonably powerful, usually at around the same time Dthrow killed, Bthrow was also killing if you were on the correct side of the stage-ish, and then Uthrow killed only 2 PK Fires later. If Dthrow got turned into a combo throw it wouldn't stop Lucas from having other killer throws. ^_^

 

[Agent Emerald]

I seriously hope they keep his Brawl short-hop down-aerial.

If they ruin the auto-cancel timings (which I'm expecting after what they did to everyone else) or replace it with a generic slow meteor I'm gonna be extremely sad.

I hope dair gets a stronger spike hitbox while keeping its autocancel because I can't bair spike for the life of me.

 

[Link24a]

Do you guys think that Lucas's wall bounce and wall slide pkt2 will be the same as Ness's? The leniency will obviously implemented in one way or another but it seems like he could have a variation of it. Like him bouncing on the left wall and sliding on the right, the opposite of Ness

 

[Patriot Duck]

Do you guys think that Lucas's wall bounce and wall slide pkt2 will be the same as Ness's? The leniency will obviously implemented in one way or another but it seems like he could have a variation of it. Like him bouncing on the left wall and sliding on the right, the opposite of Ness

I always assumed Ness sliding on the left wall and bouncing on the right wall was a glitch. Smash seems to have a problem keeping things consistent from left to right. I know, for example, that Diddy has a monkey flip tech that only works if he monkey flips to the right.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Did the last hit of dair spike in brawl, or was that just a PM thing?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Did the last hit of dair spike in brawl, or was that just a PM thing?

Last hit of Dair is a Semi-spike.
Also, its a Brawl thing.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Last hit of Dair is a Semi-spike.
Also, its a Brawl thing.

Alrighty thanks. I played brawl waaaaaay back in the day, but I couldn't remember if that was something PM added or not. Depending on how his Dair is treated, that semi-spike could be amazing. Hopefuly the move locks people in, as opposed to how pacman's functions.

Also, his magnet was also a semi-spike right? If you could cover the ledge with it, you could use it to edgeguard. Though I'm not sure if D-smash would be better or not for that.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Alrighty thanks. I played brawl waaaaaay back in the day, but I couldn't remember if that was something PM added or not. Depending on how his Dair is treated, that semi-spike could be amazing. Hopefuly the move locks people in, as opposed to how pacman's functions.

Also, his magnet was also a semi-spike right? If you could cover the ledge with it, you could use it to edgeguard. Though I'm not sure if D-smash would be better or not for that.

I personally think D-Smash would do better because it can shoot multiple times, so depending on how you time it, it might miss the first time, but hit the second time when they grab the ledge.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

The only reason magnet would be used would be for the larger hitbox. if you could hit people before they ledgesnap it would be better. Even if it doesnt kill, you could go for a stage spike or meteor with bair off stage.

 

[ToastMiller]

when you say the last hit of dair is a semi spike, what exactly does it mean?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

when you say the last hit of dair is a semi spike, what exactly does it mean?

It means the last hit of his down air, spikes them a bit more at a horizontal trajectory, but not anything crazy like Ganon's or Falcon's Down Air which sends opponents straight down.

 

[meleebrawler]

It means the last hit of his down air, spikes them a bit, but not anything crazy like Ganon's or Falcon's Down Air.

Pretty sure a semi-spike is a move that launches at a flat angle (ie horizontally). What you're describing just sounds like a weak spike.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Pretty sure a semi-spike is a move that launches at a flat angle (ie horizontally). What you're describing just sounds like a weak spike.

Bah, Stop posting my mistakes before I can edit them Damnit! LOL jk

 

[Link24a]

I always assumed Ness sliding on the left wall and bouncing on the right wall was a glitch. Smash seems to have a problem keeping things consistent from left to right. I know, for example, that Diddy has a monkey flip tech that only works if he monkey flips to the right.

now that i think about it... the left side wall slide might actually be a glitch

 

[spiderfreak1011]

Ok, gonna say this, i cannot be the only person hoping Lucas's U-Smash gets sped up to say, Project M levels of when the hitbox comes out and overall animation. If it just came out a few frames earlier, it'd be an even better move and asset to Lucas's moveset. I mean when Mewtwo can do a running U-smash to catch people (as shown in his trailer), why can't Lucas now that the gameplay isn't slowed down like Brawl's? : 3

 

[PKBeam]

it's not the startup that's the problem, it's the 70 frame ending lag that should change.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I know that Twen is offline, but scew ima tag him anyway
@ TewnLeenk Can you add this to the MU thread please?

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[PKBeam]

zelda is 50:50 why?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

zelda is 50:50 why?

Copied from the Kirby MU thread Ayy Lmao My B.

 

[Zeth444]

I really want Lucas Bair spike to Be easier to land. Imagine:
LEDGE TRUMP SPIKE

 

[MoveMan1]

...Did Lucas slide backwards when using PK Fire in brawl, or is that a new thing? I swear I can see it happening when he uses it against Charizard.

 

[PKBeam]

yeah, he did. it was always there.

 

[Agent Emerald]

...Did Lucas slide backwards when using PK Fire in brawl, or is that a new thing? I swear I can see it happening when he uses it against Charizard.

That was in Brawl. You could use it with Magnet to slide across the air, something that could really be useful for recovering here since he could use it fly across the stage when recovering and still have a spare jump.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

This is the new social thread, I'm guessing?

In other news, this can probably be merged with the Moveset Discussion instead of having a stand alone thread. If Lucas was out, I'm sure it could warrant it's own thread, but it's just speculation and theorycrafting right now.

edit: Lol, TewnLeenk merged the thread without saying anything.

 

[PKBeam]

This was the B sticking thread right?

I think B stick will have a use for perfectly wavebouncing SH PKFs, although you could do these normally.
Other than that its application will be limited outside of old Brawl ATs.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

This was the B sticking thread right?

I think B stick will have a use for perfectly wavebouncing SH PKFs, although you could do these normally.
Other than that its application will be limited outside of old Brawl ATs.

Yeah, although only my post was merged into this thread for some reason.

B-Sticking really depends on whether Brawl ATs are still here. If they're not, it'll most likely be useless.

 

[TewnLeenk]

edit: Lol, TewnLeenk merged the thread without saying anything.

Yeah that's my bad. I was in a rush to leave the office when I did it and haven't been on Smashboards since.
Also, I have no idea why the other posts from the B-Stickning thread didn't merge over into this one.

So much went wrong with that merge.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Yeah that's my bad. I was in a rush to leave the office when I did it and haven't been on Smashboards since.
Also, I have no idea why the other posts from the B-Stickning thread didn't merge over into this one.

So much went wrong with that merge.

At least you tried!

 

[TewnLeenk]

At least you tried!

Ehh, sometimes that's just the way she goes.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I feel a disclaimer should be added to the OP saying DTHROW DOESNT ACTUALLY BURY, IT'S JUST A VISUAL EFFECT

Also having DSmash be a command smash on the rest of the hits a la Link FSmash like it is in PM would be godlike but it's never gonna happen