Data "Chimera Laboratory" - Lucas moveset discussion

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

The only thing I really fear for Nair is the ender at the end.

It looks like it might have a fair bit of end lag and that really isn't good for a move that should be used for combos.....
Although the might just be me

Also I would appreciate if PK Freeze didn't send you into a special fall lol

 

[Pazx]

I wonder if N-Air will keep it's absurd damage output. If so, Lucas is going to get a lot of damage out of one grab. I'm actually happy that Lucas doesn't have an amazing grab, though, as it means he won't become an overpowered braindead combo-er by using D-Throw to some random aerial. Even if he does have throw combos, which he most likely will, he can't rely solely on it like other characters can as the grab is super punishable. That also means the Lucas boards will generally stay with MOTHER 3 fans instead of tryhards who want a top tier to main. If Lucas keeps his advanced techniques, he could end up like Peach, where he's a really good character with a high skill ceiling, so there's not a billion of them.

I've got bad news for you: I've never played a game in the Mother series and boy do I sometimes feel out of place in the Ness social thread. I used both PSI Boys in Brawl and will continue to do so in this game. Enjoy associating with the unwashed masses

Brawl nair would probably be too good for this game however I don't think it's going to be as bad as you guys make it out to be. Multihit moves (with the exception of Falco's nair) are all better in this game and the final hitbox doesn't look like it'll cause any problems. Perhaps we'll get a good autocancel window? One of my favourite things about Brawl Lucas was his shorthop and everything that came with it and it looks similar in the trailer so if the autocancel gods smile upon us we're looking at a VERY serious character. The changes to SDI in this game as well as the buffs to PKT benefit us, we'll get serious mileage out of that move, I can only hope it's transcendent.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I've got bad news for you: I've never played a game in the Mother series and boy do I sometimes feel out of place in the Ness social thread. I used both PSI Boys in Brawl and will continue to do so in this game. Enjoy associating with the unwashed masses

Brawl nair would probably be too good for this game however I don't think it's going to be as bad as you guys make it out to be. Multihit moves (with the exception of Falco's nair) are all better in this game and the final hitbox doesn't look like it'll cause any problems. Perhaps we'll get a good autocancel window? One of my favourite things about Brawl Lucas was his shorthop and everything that came with it and it looks similar in the trailer so if the autocancel gods smile upon us we're looking at a VERY serious character. The changes to SDI in this game as well as the buffs to PKT benefit us, we'll get serious mileage out of that move, I can only hope it's transcendent.

Oh, I didn't mean it like that! I meant people who pick up characters because they're top tier, wielding better results. I'm assuming that's not the case for you if you played the PSI Boys in other iterations!

I'm with you on the short hop stuff. I really hope he keeps the same options, if not having more than before. It made Lucas feel so much more free with what he could do.

 

[PKBeam]

Do you guys think bair has changed in strength?

If it killed like in PM then we'd finally have a use for it other than spiking.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Do you guys think bair has changed in strength?

If it killed like in PM then we'd finally have a use for it other than spiking.

No clue, but like you said, if it was like PM then that would be hella godlike yo.

Oh, I didn't mean it like that! I meant people who pick up characters because they're top tier, wielding better results. I'm assuming that's not the case for you if you played the PSI Boys in other iterations!

I'm with you on the short hop stuff. I really gone he keeps the same options, if not having more than before. It made Lucas feel so much more free with what he could do.

That grammar tho

 

[Aunt Jemima]

A lot of characters in this game got insane B-Air buffs. Most B-Airs are now kill moves that have a bit of landing lag. It may be possible that Lucas will get the same treatment, with an extreme B-Air buff! I don't think it'll be Jigglypuff good due to the spiking property, but I'm sure it'd be buffed to actually have a use.

That grammar tho

It ain't my fault autocorrect hates me. Actually, it probably is. I jacked it all up by typing so much words that aren't actually real because Smashboards.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

A lot of characters in this game got insane B-Air buffs. Most B-Airs are now kill moves that have a bit of landing lag. It may be possible that Lucas will get the same treatment, with an extreme B-Air buff! I don't think it'll be Jigglypuff good due to the spiking property, but I'm sure it'd be buffed to actually have a use.

It ain't my fault autocorrect hates me. Actually, it probably is. I jacked it all up by typing so much words that aren't actually real because Smashboards.

We need a falco bair... No lag whatsoever Ayy Lmao

 

[Luco]

I actually suspect SH PK Fire will be even better as a landing trap because AD-ing into the ground ---> shield is no longer viable, meaning people have to FF and try to PS the fire, which not every character can do and it's still pressuring for those that can.

And for AD spammers there's going to be a lot of PK Fire chains! I was surprised sometimes at the PK Fire chains I got in Brawl. You'd get like 3 or 4 off in a row and go "what the heck just happened...?"

Also AD cancelling ---> Uair is going to feel SO satisfying on Lucas. <3

And I'm in agreement with Pazx, I'm hoping Nair will retain its sick shield pressure and hopefully end before we hit the ground for seamless transitions into jabs. Speaking of which, Lucas had one of the best jabs in Brawl and that doesn't seem to have changed. :D

 

[ZarroTsu]

Well since the other topic I posted in was locked:

It occurs to me Lucas might get a 'rising' version of PK Freeze in his customs, similar to Ness' Rising PK Flash.

Would that be more or less effective than Rising PK Flash? (In my mind: they freeze and helplessly fly up out the top of the screen)


It also occurs to me since 'freeze' is the primary utility of the move, his customs may also opt to inflict a different "ailment" (Stun?)

 

[XCounter]

If I recall correctly, wavebouncing is still in SSB4. I'm sure most of us remember its applications in Brawl, especially with Lucas's PK Fire and PSI Magnet.

My question is do you think Lucas's wavebounce will be as notable as it was in Brawl, and if so how important do you think it will be for him? One matchup I have in mind is Rosalina & Luma, because wavebouncing PK Fire could provide some fairly safe damage on Luma.

 

[Drippy]

Yo XCounter you going to play me later today? On the other hand I don't have much to contribute because I only recently learned wavebouncing like five days ago and I'm still trying to get the hang of using it.

 

[XCounter]

Yo XCounter you going to play me later today? On the other hand I don't have much to contribute because I only recently learned wavebouncing like five days ago and I'm still trying to get the hang of using it.

If you're who I think you are, sure. I'll be playing some doubles later if you want in on that.

 

[Drippy]

If you're who I think you are, sure. I'll be playing some doubles later if you want in on that.

#OnettBoyz?
My training partner happens to love doubles so we can probably play because we really need to work on our synergy, it's like beyond horrible.

 

[XCounter]

#OnettBoyz?
My training partner happens to love doubles so we can probably play because we really need to work on our synergy, it's like beyond horrible.

Yep, I thought it was you.

And that's cool, he can join in too. I'll partner with Pat since he still trying to improve.

 

[Drippy]

Yep, I thought it was you.

And that's cool, he can join in too. I'll partner with Pat since he still trying to improve.

Yeah alright cool, my partner is still sleeping in I suppose but I'll just msg you whenever. For now I'm play some Earthbound.

 

[ToastMiller]

Well since the other topic I posted in was locked:

I always think of freezing animation as a more visual indication of hitstun. I might be wrong tho.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Lucas's ninja kick jab attacks were one of my favourite moves in Brawl. Glad they're back.

 

[Tinkerer]

Here's hoping he's actually changed fairly significantly, because with customs Ness already gets all of Lucas's specials - and would that be worth 5 bucks?

Rope Snake does give him a good advantage with recoveries now with ledge trumping, and that burying effect on the d-throw looks interesting enough, though.

 

[ilysm]

Well, Ness's versions of Lucas's moves are practically all far worse/have less utility than Lucas's original moves. They're almost entirely straight downgrades. For example, PK Fire has appalling ending lag and gives Ness none of the momentum shenanigans that Lucas benefitted from in Brawl. Think of them as cheap knockoff brands. But specials aside, Lucas and Ness are extremely different characters. The 'clone' or 'pseudo-clone' monikers always bugged me because their special moves technically have some of the same names, but otherwise they're the most well-differentiated characters ever considered to be 'clones' in Smash. Hope he's priced similarly to Mewtwo, though.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I'm secretly hoping that Lucas and Mewtwo have unique custom moves all Palutena. It'd be cool if all DLC fighters had unique ones instead of altered variations. Seems somewhat plausible considering the extra time they have to work on them.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I'm secretly hoping that Lucas and Mewtwo have unique custom moves all Palutena. It'd be cool if all DLC fighters had unique ones instead of altered variations. Seems somewhat plausible considering the extra time they have to work on them.

Inb4 PSI Shield and PSI Counter are Down B customs.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yo I've said this before but if Mewtwo and Lucas got UpB customs that sacrificed PK Thunder/Teleport for something that stops your rising vertical momentum and lets you act immediately like a DJC that'd be the ****in bomb

Like I know it's super unlikely since Peach, Yoshi, and Ness didn't get anything like that, but I can dream can't I?!

 

[YouReadMyName]

With the inclusion of Rope Snakes increased distance, (possible?) return of zap jump, AND PKT2 bounce tech also being a possibility, Lucas has SO many return options it's unimaginable. Now just the hair shortened a few pixels and this character is ssb4's MK.

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I'm secretly hoping that Lucas and Mewtwo have unique custom moves all Palutena. It'd be cool if all DLC fighters had unique ones instead of altered variations. Seems somewhat plausible considering the extra time they have to work on them.

Agreed. It'd be nice to see Lucas get original custom moves rather than just the obvious choice of getting Ness's customs (even tho i don't mind Lucas getting PK Flash, but i prefer Freeze).

I think wavebouncing could return, but who knows at this point. Sakurai doesn't care for the competitive scene, he could just as easily take that mechanic out. : \

Also B-air buff would be amazing. I love it, with that range and Spike. It's like the kind of attack with range you'd expect from a sword fighter, not a physical fighter.

 

[Zzuxon]

So, hasn't Lucas's jab combo gone from 2 to 3 hits?
I'm not familiar with vbrawl lucas, so forgive my misunderstanding.

 

[YouReadMyName]

So, hasn't Lucas's jab combo gone from 2 to 3 hits?
I'm not familiar with vbrawl lucas, so forgive my misunderstanding.

Always been 3 zzuxon. 1 kick 2 kick 3 kick finisher.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So, hasn't Lucas's jab combo gone from 2 to 3 hits?
I'm not familiar with vbrawl lucas, so forgive my misunderstanding.

Lucas' Jab was always 3 hits.

 

[JazzHands]

Did anyone else notice Lucas' PK Fire went through Charizard's Rock Smash? I thought Rock Smash had super armor, or am I wrong on that?

 

[YouReadMyName]

Did anyone else notice Lucas' PK Fire went through Charizard's Rock Smash? I thought Rock Smash had super armor.

Looks like it breaks super armor now. Yeah...top tier Lucas

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I know I am going a little bit off topic, but how many moves break Super Armour in this game?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Uh...

None other than Command Grab and grabs, I believe?

Also, does anybody know how Lucas holds out his jab? Is it similar to Kirby/Little Mac, or more along the lines of Mario and Sonic?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Uh...

None other than Command Grab and grabs, I believe?

Also, does anybody know how Lucas holds out his jab? Is it similar to Kirby/Little Mac, or more along the lines of Mario and Sonic?

I'd say Mario and Sonic.

Edit: Scratch that, just played a bit of Brawl, its definitely like Mario and Sonic's Jabs.

 

[Patriot Duck]

On the subject of Lucas' down throw, I don't think it actually buries the opponent. Characters don't go into their hitstun animation upon escaping from an actual burial, but Mega man clearly suffered hitstun in the trailer.

More likely, it's just a humorous animation and the opponent is consistently launched as soon as the throw ends.

 

[YouReadMyName]

On the subject of Lucas' down throw, I don't think it actually buries the opponent. Characters don't go into their hitstun animation upon escaping from an actual burial, but Mega man clearly suffered hitstun in the trailer.

More likely, it's just a humorous animation and the opponent is consistently launched as soon as the throw ends.

It's because of the wonky animation from Brawl. They changed it to burying due to the fact that it looked better. Just a normal dthrow really, not much hype.

 

[PKBeam]

I really hope Dthrow keeps its kill power from Brawl.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Having a combo throw is much better than having a kill throw, though. I'd rather have a combo throw to rack up damage, then kill with those super powered smashes instead of having a random kill throw.

 

[Aevin]

I'm a little unclear on how Lucas's standard specials differ from Ness's custom versions of them. I know about PK Fire, which has a different explosion effect and pushes him back, and Freeze acts like its Brawl counterpart, moving faster and likely having the greater horizontal distance (as opposed to just being a freezing PK Flash like Ness's.) From the video, have we been able to see if his magnet and PK Thunder differ from the Ness specials?

 

[Pazx]

Didn't upthrow kill in Brawl?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Didn't upthrow kill in Brawl?

Yeah it does... it was a relatively high percents as well IIRC.

I'm a little unclear on how Lucas's standard specials differ from Ness's versions of them. I know about PK Fire, which has a different explosion effect and pushes him back, and Freeze acts like its Brawl counterpart, moving faster and likely having the greater horizontal distance (as opposed to just being a freezing PK Flash like Ness's.) From the video, have we been able to see if his magnet and PK Thunder differ from the Ness specials?

Lucas' PK Thunder can hit multiple times and PK Thunder 2 launches Lucas further(?), PSI Magnet is held in front of him.

As of now, that's all of what we can gather.

 

[PKBeam]

yeah, like 15% after Dthrow.
if we can't have Dthrow to kill then Uthrow is the next best thing.
at least smash 4 mechanics will trim off 10% from kill %.