Charizard changes 1.0.8

[dangeraaron10]

Bowser is still better, lol.

I'm okay with being second rate to Bowser, but I just hope we aren't considered only barely above Mii Swordfighter. I know this kill throw upgrade (while JUICY) doesn't flip the meta, I'd be okay if Charizard goes up a few slots in his current tier bracket if not moving up a tier altogether.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I personally wish they made him better in a less cheese way. I hate kill throws.

 

[dangeraaron10]

I personally wish they made him better in a less cheese way. I hate kill throws.

I'll take whatever I can get.

 

[Shog]

I personally wish they made him better in a less cheese way. I hate kill throws. [...] I'll take whatever I can get.

y
isn't that Charizard Story of his life?

Gen 2 Stat Split, Charizard increases Special Attack and cheesed his BST
later
Gen 6 everyone gets Megaevolution, Charizard takes two and cheeses his potential

Charizard is basically cheese. He also has a yellow alt so full circle guys

 

[dangeraaron10]

y
isn't that Charizard Story of his life?

Gen 2 Stat Split, Charizard increases Special Attack and cheesed his BST
later
Gen 6 everyone gets Megaevolution, Charizard takes two and cheeses his potential

Charizard is basically cheese. He also has a yellow alt so full circle guys

Spongezard Charpants.

But then again, so did Mewtwo. Fitting, since the only Pokemon that can hold a candle to Pikachu in mass appeal is Charizard and Mewtwo.

 

[Boozer]

I play both, all bias aside (I love boozer too ^^)

hey man wow buy me dinner first pls tyty

chari is definitely not bottom tier anymore, buuuuuuuuuuut

boozer still better, ye :3

 

[KuroganeHammer]

hey man wow buy me dinner first pls tyty

chari is definitely not bottom tier anymore, buuuuuuuuuuut

boozer still better, ye :3

Xiroey isn't yours; stay away from him.

Also I checked Jab and jump height. Both supposed changes are placebo and haven't actually been changed from last patch.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Xiroey isn't yours; stay away from him.

Also I checked Jab and jump height. Both supposed changes are placebo and haven't actually been changed from last patch.

Damnit, could have sworn the jump didn't suck as badly.

 

[Sheepy]

Would anyone like a thread with d throw strings? I've found a good amount so far with some testing to go still. The testing to go is mainly just customs. I've only messed with Dragon Rush so far. I'm gonna mess with the Rock Smash that breaks up wards also.

If anyone wants me to mess with any of the other custom sets, please don't hesitate to ask!

 

[Ryukred]

Would anyone like a thread with d throw strings? I've found a good amount so far with some testing to go still. The testing to go is mainly just customs. I've only messed with Dragon Rush so far. I'm gonna mess with the Rock Smash that breaks up wards also.

If anyone wants me to mess with any of the other custom sets, please don't hesitate to ask!

A thread with d throw strings would be amazing. Check out Rising Cyclone, Zard's 2nd up B, which is the best up b custom for him IMO, because it kills ridiculously early.

 

[Sheepy]

Will do! As long as it's on one of the Evo custom sets I'll have it on my Wii U and will start testing soon! Taking a break momentarily. I'll also have that thread up shortly.

 

[Ryukred]

Will do! As long as it's on one of the Evo custom sets I'll have it on my Wii U and will start testing soon! Taking a break momentarily. I'll also have that thread up shortly.

Of course, 1321 is the set I use, which has the up b in it. And it's EVO legal

 

[Sheepy]

Of course, 1321 is the set I use, which has the up b in it. And it's EVO legal

Yeah I saw! I have probably found something that gets the most use out of d throw, and it's nair. Nair is quite possibly the best option out of d throw so far. I'm almost done messing with customs, and I found something that is making me go back through them haha. So! Sometime today I will have the thread up, and it'll be long.

Note: these are of course not guaranteed, but are strings that I have found through training mode with Mario as the CPU. I don't think I've ever sat down and found so many things because of one move before. D throw getting less knock back really did help this character 10 fold.

Edit: and props to you for using RC, I would hate to use it haha. The recovery just isn't there for me, I go deep with Zard and Fly barely does the job. I'd go Fly High but I want my damage still with the way I mind game FB.

Edit 2: I just found a a 0-death with RC and this nair business I'm speaking of. Di dependant, but if you pay attention you should be able to hit it almost every time. It's a 0-death or whenever-death. It just works if you time it right.

 

[SirJuicius]

Has anyone looked at Zard's utilt? I don't know if it's placebo or not, but it seems like the speed of utilt is a bit faster with a little less knockback.

 

[Shog]

Has anyone looked at Zard's utilt? I don't know if it's placebo or not, but it seems like the speed of utilt is a bit faster with a little less knockback.

What I am certain about uptilt is an animation fix...it doesn't seem to be changed though(Animation fix=more visible trail)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i cbf checking other charizard things unless its for steeler

 

[SirJuicius]

What I am certain about uptilt is an animation fix...it doesn't seem to be changed though(Animation fix=more visible trail)

Thanks for the feedback. Something seemed different about utilt when I first used it, so I wanted to make sure. Thanks again, @ Shog and nice avi.

 

[Shog]

okay folks SOMETHING has to be changed about Zard: I 5 stocked my bro

I never 5 stock my bro

I am pretty sure something about this aerials changed 100%, not in the lag area (landing lag) but maybe powerwise or startup wise.

and the Kill Throw is absolutely outstandingly amazing and godly. Dear folks who think it doesn't change much:
USE IT
LOVE IT
we are now the S E I S M I C T O S S Boys

 

[Real Smooth-Like]

okay folks SOMETHING has to be changed about Zard: I 5 stocked my bro

I never 5 stock my bro

I am pretty sure something about this aerials changed 100%, not in the lag area (landing lag) but maybe powerwise or startup wise.

and the Kill Throw is absolutely outstandingly amazing and godly. Dear folks who think it doesn't change much:
USE IT
LOVE IT
we are now the S E I S M I C T O S S Boys

Even if nothing else has changed other than his d throw and u throw, this is still a big deal. Charizard's grab has always been one of the best in the game. With his new d throw Charizard finally has some semblance of a combo game (lol). And the u throw... That dirty up throw. Jesus. It's so weird cause usually as Charizard I'll have to make the hardest of reads to seal a stock but now... Getting a shield grab practically means instant death? It's almost too easy. Not saying Charizard is a solid pick now but this is definitely a fantastic buff and I feel like it really hollows out a niche for him in the roster and gives him a more concrete game plan. So hyped for this ****

 

[SirJuicius]

I am pretty sure something about this aerials changed 100%, not in the lag area (landing lag) but maybe powerwise or startup wise.

I think there were some animation changes, as you said regarding utilt. Bair seems to have a smoother animation than before. It may just be placebo playing with me, but it seems to have less startup lag, as well as fair. Another thing: D-throw has been made to be easier to follow up with a fair or u-special. However, I think it'll only apply at low levels of damage (0-45%).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

i cbf checking other charizard things unless its for steeler

Aero x Steeler

OTP

Also the sound I make when I use Down throw.

Goodness, this thing combos into everything.

 

[Sheepy]

Aero x Steeler

OTP

Also the sound I make when I use Down throw.

Goodness, this thing combos into everything.

It seriously does lol

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I heard lots of characters had landing lag reduced.

I wonder if Charizard did

 

[Marrow]

I'd like to mention that the global mechanic change (no longer being able to slide off a ledge from a special move's momentum) seems not to have affected JC-Rock Smash. I've been able to do it consistently on Dream Land 64 sans wind.

EDIT: It's not dreamland exclusive, that's just where I practiced.

 

[Coonce]

I'm pretty confident that the hitbox on fair has been changed. I don't recall ever being able to hit a standing Kirby with a short hop fair. Fair always felt like the bottom portion of the claw trail was just there for show.

 

[Steeler]

It is possible that the fair hitbox was changed in .7, if at all.

 

[EvilPinkamina]

I think the hitbox comes out a frame or two later without a change in the animation.

 

[Bloodcross]

Switching between dthrow and upthrow at low-mid percents seems to be pretty important imo. There are a lot of situations that dictate which throw is the better one. uthrow > fair (~22%) does more percent, but dthrow > fair (~17%) gets you to the ground faster so you can pressure the opponent easier. Not to mention back throw to fair (and dragon rush) is still a thing. So there's 3 throws in your disposal you can use to just mess up your opponent.

I find dthrow to uair really hard to get. Often times the opponent's airdodging through, but I'm still fast falling and being below the opponent to follow with something else. It's just something that only seems to work at certain percents.

dthrow to nair at low percents could work. it does combo if done correctly. the usage really depends on the matchup. like, ur fighting a big, tall, or big and tall body you can try dthrow > nair > utilt x2 / upsmash / rock smash / up b. it doesnt work on small characters like pikachu nor on any characters with bs combo breaker moves like luigi. again this is really matchup dependent.

dthrow to dair should never work... but my God I'm going to ****ing go for it 100% of the time at the ledge anyway because i dont give a ****

dthrow to upb... could be a thing. On Sheik I was comboing her from 85%. But this is in training mode with no DI. Again, super situational, but if you get it you GET IT. Also, you have to dash forward then upb in one motion. Similar to how you get back throw dragon rush where your inputs are back throw, dash forward, then jump side b in one motion. Here's a gfycat of me showcasing this: http://gfycat.com/FairMiniatureBrant The reason I pummeled was to increase the combo count after down throw.

that upthrow kill percent chart is extremely helpful too.

Did I miss anything?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Is it me or is Peach waxing Bowser's shell. Either that or she is doing something dirty.

 

[-LzR-]

Is it me or is Peach waxing Bowser's shell. Either that or she is doing something dirty.

She knows her place, Bowser is the **** in this game.

 

[SirJuicius]

Switching between dthrow and upthrow at low-mid percents seems to be pretty important imo. There are a lot of situations that dictate which throw is the better one. uthrow > fair (~22%) does more percent, but dthrow > fair (~17%) gets you to the ground faster so you can pressure the opponent easier. Not to mention back throw to fair (and dragon rush) is still a thing. So there's 3 throws in your disposal you can use to just mess up your opponent.

I find dthrow to uair really hard to get. Often times the opponent's airdodging through, but I'm still fast falling and being below the opponent to follow with something else. It's just something that only seems to work at certain percents.

dthrow to nair at low percents could work. it does combo if done correctly. the usage really depends on the matchup. like, ur fighting a big, tall, or big and tall body you can try dthrow > nair > utilt x2 / upsmash / rock smash / up b. it doesnt work on small characters like pikachu nor on any characters with bs combo breaker moves like luigi. again this is really matchup dependent.

dthrow to dair should never work... but my God I'm going to ****ing go for it 100% of the time at the ledge anyway because i dont give a ****

dthrow to upb... could be a thing. On Sheik I was comboing her from 85%. But this is in training mode with no DI. Again, super situational, but if you get it you GET IT. Also, you have to dash forward then upb in one motion. Similar to how you get back throw dragon rush where your inputs are back throw, dash forward, then jump side b in one motion. Here's a gfycat of me showcasing this: http://gfycat.com/FairMiniatureBrant The reason I pummeled was to increase the combo count after down throw.

that upthrow kill percent chart is extremely helpful too.

Did I miss anything?

Good stuff. I like trying to follow up the d-throw with rock smash when closer to the edge of the stage. Helps Charizard in getting an early start on edge guarding. I like doing d-throw > SH rock smash > flamethrower OR nair OR.


Also, I don't know if this was able to be done before, but I noticed in a few practice sessions and online matches that if you short hop, then fast fall, followed by using Rock Smash that hits weakly, it'll cause a small amount of knockback to where you could hit someone - depending on the size - with Flare Blitz. Again, I'm not sure if this was something previously doable, but I haven't really noticed this until now, so I thought I'd bring it up.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I'm pretty confident that the hitbox on fair has been changed. I don't recall ever being able to hit a standing Kirby with a short hop fair. Fair always felt like the bottom portion of the claw trail was just there for show.

I noticed this too. I spent likee 9999 hours trying to find the perfect sweetspot that would let me hit pikachu with auto cancel Fair before this patch. Now it suddenly connects if you land the bottom half.

Charizard is now 25.8% More Magestic this patch. Can 100% confirm not placebo.

 

[UtahCharizard]

I noticed this too. I spent likee 9999 hours trying to find the perfect sweetspot that would let me hit pikachu with auto cancel Fair before this patch. Now it suddenly connects if you land the bottom half.

Charizard is now 25.8% More Magestic this patch. Can 100% confirm not placebo.

Hooray!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hi everyone, I've done a bit of testing and I can confirm that JAB has higher WBKB now which is what lets it link into JAB 2 better.

I've heard things about it being able to link in a frame earlier, but not so sure this is true (yet) because I haven't recorded and tested it.

I will look into other things today, but fair seems to be the same as prepatch.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Hi everyone, I've done a bit of testing and I can confirm that JAB has higher WBKB now which is what lets it link into JAB 2 better.

I've heard things about it being able to link in a frame earlier, but not so sure this is true (yet) because I haven't recorded and tested it.

I will look into other things today, but fair seems to be the same as prepatch.

Are you able to hit pikachu with autocancel Short Hop fair with the pre-patch version?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Are you able to hit pikachu with autocancel Short Hop fair with the pre-patch version?

No, but you can't do it in the patch version either.

 

[Strider755]

With customs on, Charizard might be upper mid to high tier material. I'm gonna try to calculate kill %s for his new ^throw while at 100%, to test for rage.

 

[Swoops]

Couple of things.

1. Dthrow > Dragon Rush doesn't seem to true combo in many cases, but I'm sure that the traps are very real. (dthrow > fair/nair > DR, etc)
- UThrow > (DJ) Dragon Rush however is VERY real, and pretty consistent at lower percents

2. Stages that UThrow is hilarious on: T&C, Duck Hunt, Castle Siege, Battlefield, Delfino.
I honestly think characters are going to have a very tough time finding a stage that Zard doesn't take advantage of in a very scary way. Especially if I'm striking FD right from the get go.

 

[RadianB]

Charizard' Up throw is probably one of the hardest moves to DI out of at high percents near the ledge. If you DI towards Charizard it's gonna kill you quicker and if you DI away from him it's gonna put you near the top corner blast zone which has a small vacumme which will probably end up killing you as well. Basically screwed if you get grabbed by Charizard near the ledge at high percents.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Kinda happy Bthrow stayed the same. I can still Backrush people to their doom like a **** you dragon.