Charizard changes 1.0.8

[ggamer77]

The most obvious change is that down throw no longer kills.
Down throw to fly seems to work pretty well though.

Up thow seems to kill a bit earlier now as well.

Anyway post any changes to Charizard you find in the 1.0.8 update you find here.

 

[RadianB]

Yeah Down-throw is a combo set up and Up-throw is a kill move, not sure how I feel about this.

Edit: This actually might be pretty good. Having a kill throw from anywhere on the level like Mewtwo.

Not sure if Flare Blitz knock back has been increased, might be placebo.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I can confirm the throw changes.

I will check flare blitz soon.

 

[SmashRacer]

Love these changes Charizard have got. Up Throw has been buffed a lot and Down Throw being a combo move now. It also seems like his Jab has been fixed. Because the combo counter now shows 3 hits and 12 total damage.
It might just be me, but I think Nair got less landing lag

 

[Leety]

We got Hoo Hah combos! Screw Ryu!

Already seems to be an effective combo while I was watching Styles's stream
Down throw ---> Fair ----> reset to grab and down throw again ---> U-air

We can also true combo in Fair at mid percent with an up throw =3

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We got buffs this time?

Me likey!

 

[Shog]

I AM HYPE!!

Seismic Toss being the Killthrow, DreamLand 64...Roy ... HOORAY

 

[RadianB]

Yeah after having played with Charizard 1.0.8 for a bit these new changes are great buffs.

 

[Dudde]

I might be crazy, but Fair seems to have a waaay bigger hitbox. Also his air mobility seems like its slightly better, patched the 2nd and 3rd jumps so they actually take you somehere? Can anybody confirm or am I on that placebo?

 

[Zombie Saurian]

These are very nice buffs to Charizard! I think it might be me, but does his Bair have less knockback?

 

[Mightyno.M]

What do you guys think about dream land?

 

[Strider755]

Best. Patch. Ever.

"Lizardon, Chikyu Nage!"

 

[EvilPinkamina]

Zard's midair jumps seem to go higher. Don't have a 3DS to compare wth though.

 

[Soul Train]

Anyone got the kill %s for Zard's throws now?

 

[EvilPinkamina]

Against most of the characters I tested in training mode so far, they'd die around 125%. Haven't tested on any notable heavies/lightweights though.

 

[Leety]

I think I found a very notable difference in the Bair

It seems to come out a lot earlier then usual. Does anyone have something to compare it to prepatch?

The landing lag still sucks though.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Ho man. Dreamland 64, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, and Charziard Buffs? This day is like Christmas. Can't wait to try them all out.

 

[SmashRacer]

I love the Down Throw change. Tested out something and it appears that Down Throw to Up B is a Kill Setup.
The character chosen was Random. Down Throw to Up B kills Pac-Man at 96%. That's crazy . The combo meter showed 2 hits and 5 damage at that percentage. It even works at lower percent

 

[Strider755]

It looks like Lizardon is going up a tier.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

It looks like Lizardon is going up a tier.

He doesn't feel like dead last now but he has too many problems to get out of bottom tier.

 

[ggamer77]

His air game is still pretty weak though. And the whole up throw being a kill move makes a lot more sense than his down throw.

 

[Steeler]

with DI and no rage/stale move bonus, uthrow kills yoshi on the top battlefield platform at 117

my god

 

[ZephyrZ]

I logged in and heard that Charizard's D-throw couldn't kill anymore. I freaked out.
Then I found out that U-throw got buffed again. This is the happiest day of my life. Now we can actually use Charizard's coolest move.

Still though, it's going to be hard to adjust to this.

 

[Mightyno.M]

He doesn't feel like dead last now but he has too many problems to get out of bottom tier.

To add on this many characters got a kill setup

Edit: upon further testing I take this back

 

[EvilPinkamina]

I have a list of all the characters death percents on FD with Up Throw. Not sure if this needs it own thread or not, but I thought since this was changed in 1.0.8, it would fit here.

All characters were tested in training mode against a Level 9 CPU. These percents are the lowest percents that consistently killed the AI. Each of these can have a 1-2% difference depending on DI.

All the characters were standing on the white dot in the middle of the stage. Charizard was facing the left side of the screen.

Spoiler

Mario: 125%
Luigi: 124%
Peach: 116%
Bowser: 138%
Yoshi: 126%
RosaLuma: 109%
Bowser Jr.: 132%
Wario: 131%
DK: 146%
Diddy: 126%
G&W: 105%
Lil Mac: 120%
Link: 130%
Zelda: 116%
Sheik 114%
Ganon: 133%
TLink: 118%
Samus: 127%
ZSS: 115%
Pit: 125%
Palutena: 114%
Marth: 124%
Ike: 135%
Robin: 125%
DHD: 128%
Kirby: 105%
DDD: 149%
MK: 115%
Fox: 113%
Falco: 116%
Pika: 114%
Zard: 131%
Lucario: 130%
Jiggs: 93%
Greninja: 118%
ROB: 124%
Ness: 120%
C. Falcon: 135%
Villager: 122%
Olimar: 119%
WFT: 119%
Shulk (No monado): 127%
Dr. Mario: 127%
Dark Pit: 125%
Lucina: 124%
Pac Man: 124%
Mega Man: 135%
Sonic: 121%
Mewtwo: 107%
Lucas: 120%
Roy: 129%
Ryu: 127%

EDIT: I got bored so I decided to order the list from lowest to highest percent.

Spoiler

Jiggs: 93%
Kirby: 105%
G&W: 105%
Mewtwo: 107%
RosaLuma: 109%
Fox: 113%
Sheik 114%
Pika: 114%
Palutena: 114%
ZSS: 115%
MK: 115%
Peach: 116%
Zelda: 116%
Falco: 116%
Greninja: 118%
TLink: 118%
Olimar: 119%
WFT: 119%
Lucas: 120%
Ness: 120%
Lil Mac: 120%
Sonic: 121%
Villager: 122%
Lucina: 124%
Pac Man: 124%
ROB: 124%
Marth: 124%
Luigi: 124%
Dark Pit: 125%
Robin: 125%
Pit: 125%
Mario: 125%
Yoshi: 126%
Diddy: 126%
Ryu: 127%
Shulk (No monado): 127%
Dr. Mario: 127%
Samus: 127%
DHD: 128%
Roy: 129%
Link: 130%
Lucario: 130%
Wario: 131%
Zard: 131%
Bowser Jr.: 132%
Ganon: 133%
C. Falcon: 135%
Mega Man: 135%
Ike: 135%
Bowser: 138%
DK: 146%
DDD: 149%

EDIT: RosaLuma % corrected to 109% from 108%

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This changes how much we will want to use UThrow vs Dthrow now, considering some follow-ups if dthrow does more damage with throw combos I would say this is a significant buff since his Uthrow now kills a lot better than Dthrow kills.

It seriously it like Mewtwo levels of good for a kill throw.

This is a strong buff.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Rejoice!

 

[Steeler]

Yeah this is one of the most drastic changes in any patch. Our grab is insanely scary on Duck Hunt/the Battlefields/Town and City.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I have a list of all the characters death percents on FD with Up Throw. Not sure if this needs it own thread or not, but I thought since this was changed in 1.0.8, it would fit here.

All characters were tested in training mode against a Level 9 CPU. These percents are the lowest percents that consistently killed the AI. Each of these can have a 1-2% difference depending on DI.

All the characters were standing on the white dot in the middle of the stage. Charizard was facing the left side of the screen.

Spoiler

Mario: 125%
Luigi: 124%
Peach: 116%
Bowser: 138%
Yoshi: 126%
RosaLuma: 108%
Bowser Jr.: 132%
Wario: 131%
DK: 146%
Diddy: 126%
G&W: 105%
Lil Mac: 120%
Link: 130%
Zelda: 116%
Sheik 114%
Ganon: 133%
TLink: 118%
Samus: 127%
ZSS: 115%
Pit: 125%
Palutena: 114%
Marth: 124%
Ike: 135%
Robin: 125%
DHD: 128%
Kirby: 105%
DDD: 149%
MK: 115%
Fox: 113%
Falco: 116%
Pika: 114%
Zard: 131%
Lucario: 130%
Jiggs: 93%
Greninja: 118%
ROB: 124%
Ness: 120%
C. Falcon: 135%
Villager: 122%
Olimar: 119%
WFT: 119%
Shulk (No monado): 127%
Dr. Mario: 127%
Dark Pit: 125%
Lucina: 124%
Pac Man: 124%
Mega Man: 135%
Sonic: 121%
Mewtwo: 107%
Lucas: 120%
Roy: 129%
Ryu: 127%

I just threw all these numbers in a calculator, and the average seems to be roughly 123%.

So I guess the rule of thumb is that when your opponent starts hovering around 123%, U-throw them. Give or take some depending on weight class.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

This means Zard's weakest stages are... FD and Omegas? I see potential in every other stage as Uthrow has great potential now... Bloodcross is going to be happy!

 

[deepseadiva]

Yeah this is one of the most drastic changes in any patch. Our grab is insanely scary on Duck Hunt/the Battlefields/Town and City.

Oh man, that's a little death center underneath that tree now.

AVOID AVOID

 

[dangeraaron10]

Am I going crazy or are the mid-air jumps higher? Or at least Charizard doesn't look like he's struggling to flap his wings anymore. If he just had two more of these jumps it would be perfect.

 

[Arrei]

Hey, do you guys recall if Counters worked on Flare Blitz before? I've killed two Charizards by countering offstage Blitzes today, but I think I remember Counter would hit but not do any knockback because Charizard was still in an armored state before the patch.

Edit: Ike's counter, by the way.

 

[charmaster]

I was considering switching my main back to shiek but this patch made me decide to stick with charizard. The buffs were feeling really nice in some online matches.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Seems to be some dramatic changes. How does rage affect Uthrow?

@ Steeler

 

[Steeler]

Seems to be some dramatic changes. How does rage affect Uthrow?

@ Steeler

I only did preliminary testing but it doesn't appear to scale an unusual amount with rage. I do feel that old dthrow was stronger at the edge with rage, but overall uthrow is better (platforms, mid stage, weak or no rage). I will mess around with percents on different stages tomorrow.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Have any of you played Charizard yet on the Miiverse stage?" Unrelated but...I consider them hazards, those mii posts, for how hilariously bad they get, it's hard not to watch them. I'm not sure if they hand pick posts or any posts come through with no filter, because a bad doodle of Charizard saying "f**k you ash" (and no, it actually clearly spelled out the naughty word) was in and kept popping up over and over everytime I landed a KO.

Hilarious. XD

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Guys Im gonna go ahead and be a wuss for picking back Charizard after I dropped him around 1 month ago. I like these changes so far.

 

[dangeraaron10]

The Zard forgives.

 

[Swoops]

Love the changes. Charizard's game plan feels a lot more fluid and rewarding. Definitely not high tier material, but I think this makes him much more complete.

Dthrow > reverse NAir looks legit, but I'm having some trouble pulling it off.