characters you DON'T want in smash

[Al-kīmiyā']

The OP said “let’s TALK”

Go back and check if you don’t believe me.

I checked before I made that post. Anyway, talking doesn't entail speculation.
I'll just ignore any further replies concerning my post, since it's more crap I don't want to see when I check this thread.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, time for round 2, and a recap of previous characters I've mentioned in my posts.

• Mimikyu - I've calmed down a bit, and I'm not as violantly opposed to it as I previously was (I'll still be getting the game if it gets in), but it's still my least favorite option for a Gen 7 mon and I can't imagine myself not getting salty over its inclusion. All of that is probably because I view it as Decidueye's biggest competition and I also wasn't fond of it to begin with.
• Daisy Oof
• Minecraft Steve - I'm not as opposed to the idea as I used to be because I can see the merit in its inclusion. However, I still don't like the prospect of screaming 12 year olds invading the Smash fanbase, en masse.
• Rabbids - Not only are they the minions of gaming, but I also see them as generic enemies ala Koopa Troopa. I'd rather have them as Smash Run/ Adventure Mode enemies (so I'd be able to use them as punching bags).
• Non-videogame characters - I don't want to open this can of worms. I see Smash as a massive gaming crossover.
• Marx - If Sakurai passes on the consistently relevant, popular, and unique Bandana Dee in favor of his own character, that would just show he's biased for his own stuff. If he were to get in, he has to get in after (or along with) Bandana Dee, and that is not negotiable. Otherwise, he's fine.
• Shadow/Dark Samus/any other missing assist that people think will be an Echo - This is the most toxic bandwagon in history. The two I've mentioned would also be massively wasted if they were Echoes.
• Geno -

My opinion on Geno constantly shifts between dislike and neutral, but it has recently hit the lowest point possible.
Geno is a character that, despite checking multiple boxes that would usually make the Smash fanbase say "this character doesn't deserve a slot on the roster!", has gained a large cult following over the years, to the point he's considered one of the most highly requested characters on this website. To elaborate...

• "Waluigi doesn't deserve to be in Smash, he's just a spin-off character!" At least he made more than one appearance and a cameo, unlike Geno... Who is also technically a "spin-off" character.
• "No more Mario characters!" Many people say that but still want Geno.
• "One-off characters don't belong in Smash!" Why is Geno any different?
• "We shouldn't get any new Pokemon because they'd feel outdated by the time the next game comes out!" This one is particularly ironic, because Geno is already outdated. He's a one-off character that hasn't made an appearance in years, and yet the fanbase still loves him.

Personally, I'm the kind of guy who prioritizes moveset over anything, so I don't care about all the fine print that requires a Smash inclusion. And yet, I find myself frustrated with people who care so much about it but still want Geno. It especially irks me that Sakurai achknowledged his popularity directly yet never said a word about characters like Isaac or even the elusive King K. Rool. It frustrates me even more that some people give him the okay but still don't accept Bandana Dee as a character that's worthy of Smash, despite him litearally checking every box.
Finally, I'm an advocate of third-party inclusions, unlike a large part of the fanbase, and there are very few choices that I would really dislike. Recently, I've been seeing many people say that they believe Geno will be the only third-party newcomer, at least in the base game. Regardless of whether their predictions are correct or not. that outcome would be a massive disappointment for me as there are so many good options for third-parties, while Geno is literally just a Nintendo character that they don't own.
I admit that I'm not too familiar with the character as I have yet to play Mario RPG (That's only happening after I get a SNES classic, which isn't happening for a while), so while my opinion could potentially shift in a more positive direction once I play the game, I currently don't want to see Geno in the game at all. Also, if Geno gets anything while Bandana Dee is ignored altogether like in Sm4sh, I'd be livid.

• Any Gen 1 Pokemon - We have 6 Gen 1 Pokemon out of 9. That's more than enough. Stop it with the Gen 1 pandering and let some other Gens get their time in the spotlight.
• Sora - I don't like his design or the series he's from.

Huh, didn't actually add that many new characters to my list. Still, it's pretty satisfying to list all of them in one post.

 

[Souldin]

• Shadow/Dark Samus/any other missing assist that people think will be an Echo - This is the most toxic bandwagon in history. The two I've mentioned would also be massively wasted if they were Echoes.
• Any Gen 1 Pokemon - We have 6 Gen 1 Pokemon out of 9. That's more than enough. Stop it with the Gen 1 pandering and let some other Gens get their time in the spotlight.
• Sora - I don't like his design or the series he's from.

Huh, didn't actually add that many new characters to my list. Still, it's pretty satisfying to list all of them in one post.

Honestly, I feel that any Clone or Echo Fighter is wasted potential; just about any character has the ability for unique moves and traits, and it's a real shame when they end up just as clones or now Echoes. I remember my little brother being quite vexxed about Dark Pit merely being a clone (Echo now) of Pit, and as someone who likes Daisy as a Mario series character, I do find it disappointing she is merely an Echo Fighter rather than having a move-set that better suited and represented her character (not that I wanted her playable in SSB, I felt we had enough Mario characters as of Brawl, let alone the 8 we now have).

When it comes to Echo Fighters though, I feel it is less of a case of not wanting characters to Echoes or Echoes to be included, but rather expecting them to be. Sakurai went out of his way to introduce the term; I am expecting more, even though I'd rather there not be. If we do unfortunately get more Echoes, I'd rather they be of 3rd party characters such as Shadow or Roll, thus saving development time for creating original move-sets for Nintendo newcomers (and satisfying those fans wanting additional reps for the already represented 3rd party series without much effort). Again, I'd rather not, but if I'm expecting there to be more Echoes I might as well hope for the least disliked option of a disliked decision.

While I'm of the opinion that I'd rather not further Pokémon additions in general, I do certainly agree with not having any more Gen 1 Pokémon. I remember it annoying me a lot that, when they introduced Pokémon Trainer, they introduced the trainer as a Gen 1 trainer. We already had Pikachu, Jigglypuff and the expected-to-return-but-obviously-didn't Mewtwo; why not introduce a trainer with Gen 2, 3 or 4 (potentially at the cost of Lucario, as the Gen 4 trainer would have then covered that representation) Pokémon instead.

As for Sora, I definitely agree. I doubt they'd be able to include Disney references if he got into Smash, and is a Sora without Donald and Goofy really worth it? I certainly don't think so.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Alright, time for round 2, and a recap of previous characters I've mentioned in my posts.

• Mimikyu - I've calmed down a bit, and I'm not as violantly opposed to it as I previously was (I'll still be getting the game if it gets in), but it's still my least favorite option for a Gen 7 mon and I can't imagine myself not getting salty over its inclusion. All of that is probably because I view it as Decidueye's biggest competition and I also wasn't fond of it to begin with.
• Daisy Oof
• Minecraft Steve - I'm not as opposed to the idea as I used to be because I can see the merit in its inclusion. However, I still don't like the prospect of screaming 12 year olds invading the Smash fanbase, en masse.
• Rabbids - Not only are they the minions of gaming, but I also see them as generic enemies ala Koopa Troopa. I'd rather have them as Smash Run/ Adventure Mode enemies (so I'd be able to use them as punching bags).
• Non-videogame characters - I don't want to open this can of worms. I see Smash as a massive gaming crossover.
• Marx - If Sakurai passes on the consistently relevant, popular, and unique Bandana Dee in favor of his own character, that would just show he's biased for his own stuff. If he were to get in, he has to get in after (or along with) Bandana Dee, and that is not negotiable. Otherwise, he's fine.
• Shadow/Dark Samus/any other missing assist that people think will be an Echo - This is the most toxic bandwagon in history. The two I've mentioned would also be massively wasted if they were Echoes.
• Geno -

• Any Gen 1 Pokemon - We have 6 Gen 1 Pokemon out of 9. That's more than enough. Stop it with the Gen 1 pandering and let some other Gens get their time in the spotlight.
• Sora - I don't like his design or the series he's from.

Huh, didn't actually add that many new characters to my list. Still, it's pretty satisfying to list all of them in one post.

We agree on everything pretty much I see.

Except I want Lycanroc

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't want to see any non-video game characters, clone characters, transformation characters or Pokemon whose types are already represented by other playable Pokemon characters.

Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Lucina, Dark Pit and Daisy should have all been alt costumes at best, echo fighters at the most.

And I wish Trainer hadn't come back and just dedicated Charizard had remained.

Any more characters from a third party series. It kind of removes the guest aspect and how it is a Nintendo themed game if we have more than one Sonic character for example.

That's because they're NOT guests.

When they keep coming back game after game, and Mega Man is just hanging out with the rest of the cast in CGI trailers for the announcement of Nintendo characters, it's obvious that Nintendo doesn't consider the 3rd party characters to be any "lesser" than it's own characters.

 

[Zema]

My opinion on Geno constantly shifts between dislike and neutral, but it has recently hit the lowest point possible.
Geno is a character that, despite checking multiple boxes that would usually make the Smash fanbase say "this character doesn't deserve a slot on the roster!", has gained a large cult following over the years, to the point he's considered one of the most highly requested characters on this website. To elaborate...

• "Waluigi doesn't deserve to be in Smash, he's just a spin-off character!" At least he made more than one appearance and a cameo, unlike Geno... Who is also technically a "spin-off" character.
• "No more Mario characters!" Many people say that but still want Geno.
• "One-off characters don't belong in Smash!" Why is Geno any different?
• "We shouldn't get any new Pokemon because they'd feel outdated by the time the next game comes out!" This one is particularly ironic, because Geno is already outdated. He's a one-off character that hasn't made an appearance in years, and yet the fanbase still loves him.

Personally, I'm the kind of guy who prioritizes moveset over anything, so I don't care about all the fine print that requires a Smash inclusion. And yet, I find myself frustrated with people who care so much about it but still want Geno. It especially irks me that Sakurai achknowledged his popularity directly yet never said a word about characters like Isaac or even the elusive King K. Rool. It frustrates me even more that some people give him the okay but still don't accept Bandana Dee as a character that's worthy of Smash, despite him litearally checking every box.
Finally, I'm an advocate of third-party inclusions, unlike a large part of the fanbase, and there are very few choices that I would really dislike. Recently, I've been seeing many people say that they believe Geno will be the only third-party newcomer, at least in the base game. Regardless of whether their predictions are correct or not. that outcome would be a massive disappointment for me as there are so many good options for third-parties, while Geno is literally just a Nintendo character that they don't own.
I admit that I'm not too familiar with the character as I have yet to play Mario RPG (That's only happening after I get a SNES classic, which isn't happening for a while), so while my opinion could potentially shift in a more positive direction once I play the game, I currently don't want to see Geno in the game at all. Also, if Geno gets anything while Bandana Dee is ignored altogether like in Sm4sh, I'd be livid.

I do have a few questions and statements I'd like to make in response to this post. Not necessarily directed at you, but towards a more general audience, though I would like to ask you a few things in regards to one specific comment you made.

I don't think Sakurai doesn't want Waluigi because he's a spin-off character... I think Sakurai doesn't really see the potential of Waluigi as a character. I personally don't want Waluigi because Waluigi is lame. He was literally only created so that Wario had a Tennis partner. There's a reason Waluigi only shows up as an Assist Trophy with a tennis racket.

I'd also like to address the No More Mario Characters meme that's been flying around. Or replace Mario with [Series], most notoriously Fire Emblem as of late. I don't think the roster should ever be held back because of some idea that there are too many characters from Mario or from Fire Emblem or from the Legend of Zelda or whatever other series. If a character seems like a good inclusion, I'm all for it, which is why I wouldn't mind Lyndis or Tharja as yet another FE character.

As for "One-off characters don't belong in Smash!"... I have no idea where this comes from, honestly. If anyone claims this, they haven't really been taking note of who else is on the roster. I want more one-off characters in Smash, if anything, so that they could be revitalized or at the very least find a new home as Smash characters... kind of how Captain Falcon is now more of a Smash character than an F-Zero character... though he isn't from a one-off series. I guess R.O.B. or Game & Watch would also fit that description, as well as a few others. Finally, being outdated doesn't stop a lot of characters in the Smash roster, honestly. Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B., Game & Watch... even Pac-Man. Sure, they were relevant, but definitely also outdated at the time of their inclusion.

Personally, I'm the kind of guy who prioritizes moveset over anything, so I don't care about all the fine print that requires a Smash inclusion. And yet, I find myself frustrated with people who care so much about it but still want Geno.

This is the main thing I wanted to address. Can you expand on this comment? Geno has really strong moveset potential, potentially bringing with him a fresh mechanic that doesn't exist in Smash in the form of timed hits. Why should people who care about characters having good movesets not want Geno? He practically already has a moveset ready for him, with every move and weapon of his in SMRPG being easily translateable into Smash.

 

[Gallowglass]

I do have a few questions and statements I'd like to make in response to this post. Not necessarily directed at you, but towards a more general audience, though I would like to ask you a few things in regards to one specific comment you made.

I don't think Sakurai doesn't want Waluigi because he's a spin-off character... I think Sakurai doesn't really see the potential of Waluigi as a character. I personally don't want Waluigi because Waluigi is lame. He was literally only created so that Wario had a Tennis partner. There's a reason Waluigi only shows up as an Assist Trophy with a tennis racket.

I'd also like to address the No More Mario Characters meme that's been flying around. Or replace Mario with [Series], most notoriously Fire Emblem as of late. I don't think the roster should ever be held back because of some idea that there are too many characters from Mario or from Fire Emblem or from the Legend of Zelda or whatever other series. If a character seems like a good inclusion, I'm all for it, which is why I wouldn't mind Lyndis or Tharja as yet another FE character.

As for "One-off characters don't belong in Smash!"... I have no idea where this comes from, honestly. If anyone claims this, they haven't really been taking note of who else is on the roster. I want more one-off characters in Smash, if anything, so that they could be revitalized or at the very least find a new home as Smash characters... kind of how Captain Falcon is now more of a Smash character than an F-Zero character... though he isn't from a one-off series. I guess R.O.B. or Game & Watch would also fit that description, as well as a few others. Finally, being outdated doesn't stop a lot of characters in the Smash roster, honestly. Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B., Game & Watch... even Pac-Man. Sure, they were relevant, but definitely also outdated at the time of their inclusion.



This is the main thing I wanted to address. Can you expand on this comment? Geno has really strong moveset potential, potentially bringing with him a fresh mechanic that doesn't exist in Smash in the form of timed hits. Why should people who care about characters having good movesets not want Geno? He practically already has a moveset ready for him, with every move and weapon of his in SMRPG being easily translateable into Smash.

I would like to add that Ice Climbers are from an one off, outdated, and obscure title. They're very beloved members of the Smash roster. They were only not included in Smash 4 because of the 3DS' limitations.

 

[Deleted member]

I do have a few questions and statements I'd like to make in response to this post. Not necessarily directed at you, but towards a more general audience, though I would like to ask you a few things in regards to one specific comment you made.

I don't think Sakurai doesn't want Waluigi because he's a spin-off character... I think Sakurai doesn't really see the potential of Waluigi as a character. I personally don't want Waluigi because Waluigi is lame. He was literally only created so that Wario had a Tennis partner. There's a reason Waluigi only shows up as an Assist Trophy with a tennis racket.

I was referring to the fanbase's fanrules, rather than Sakurai's own words.
I've seen people use that argument against him and ask for Geno at the same breath, which I find to be extremely hypocritical. I won't get into Sakurai's reasoning, but I have a feeling that it's something else.

I'd also like to address the No More Mario Characters meme that's been flying around. Or replace Mario with [Series], most notoriously Fire Emblem as of late. I don't think the roster should ever be held back because of some idea that there are too many characters from Mario or from Fire Emblem or from the Legend of Zelda or whatever other series. If a character seems like a good inclusion, I'm all for it, which is why I wouldn't mind Lyndis or Tharja as yet another FE character.

Completely agree with you there, actually. Again, I was adressing fan rules that don't seem to apply to Geno in some cases.

As for "One-off characters don't belong in Smash!"... I have no idea where this comes from, honestly. If anyone claims this, they haven't really been taking note of who else is on the roster. I want more one-off characters in Smash, if anything, so that they could be revitalized or at the very least find a new home as Smash characters... kind of how Captain Falcon is now more of a Smash character than an F-Zero character... though he isn't from a one-off series. I guess R.O.B. or Game & Watch would also fit that description, as well as a few others. Finally, being outdated doesn't stop a lot of characters in the Smash roster, honestly. Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B., Game & Watch... even Pac-Man. Sure, they were relevant, but definitely also outdated at the time of their inclusion.

Once again I was just adressing fan rules. I don't have any problem with one-offs and I would actually consider supporting several one-off Kirby characters if it wasn't for the bigger fish.

This is the main thing I wanted to address. Can you expand on this comment? Geno has really strong moveset potential, potentially bringing with him a fresh mechanic that doesn't exist in Smash in the form of timed hits. Why should people who care about characters having good movesets not want Geno? He practically already has a moveset ready for him, with every move and weapon of his in SMRPG being easily translateable into Smash.

I meant people who care about "the fine print", AKA credentials required for a Smash inclusion. I didn't phrase it right.
Chances are, after I actually get to play Mario RPG, my opinion on Geno could change for the better, but as it stands right now I feel somewhat bitter towards him due to all of the things I've mentioned.

 

[Zema]

I meant people who care about "the fine print", AKA credentials required for a Smash inclusion. I didn't phrase it right.

Ah, very well. I actually mostly agree with you on fan hypocrisy when it comes to characters they want vs their "competition", though I don't think it's limited to Geno. Ultimately, I dislike a lot of Smash speculation, especially when it tries to come up with rules as to who should or shouldn't make it in. This is actually partially why I want Geno to make it in - it would finally kill a lot of the discussion around what rules do or dont exist regarding a character getting in or not... though I get the feeling people might just come up with new ones. Unfortunately, it's inevitable that larger fanbases resort to hypocrisy or obnoxious behaviour due to the larger amount of people in them.

Personally, the only statements I make regarding Smash is that western characters seem incredibly disadvantaged, since most, if not all of the roster, is Japanese-designed, and that is more an observation than a rule.

 

[mechmaster90]

-Goku or any anime characters. Don't fit the Smash universe and we'll get Jump Force for that anyway.
-Minecraft Steve. Pretty ugly and doesn't fit. Same thing for any Microsoft characters really, even though the masterchief, banjo or joanna dark would be interesting.
-More Pokemon or Fire Emblem characters. We've got enough.

 

[oxyborb]

You have a point, but Sakurai does take into account relevancy. At the end of the day, since Bandana Dee is a main character and most other good canidates are one-offs (or don’t have as much of a prominent role), I think he’ll be added first.

Tbh I’d be fine with anyone except Marx

Waddle Dee is not a main character. That's like saying Birdo is a main character. Marx has a real moveset, at least. If I were in charge and had to add a Kirby character (though I don't think I would), it'd be a combo of Mr. Shine & Mr. Bright, each taking turns in/out of the sky. Not relevant but interesting. If Sakurai was forced to add another Kirby character, I'd bet he'd pick something weird like "Star Allies" which would be a bunch of frienemies rolled into one.

I feel he could do more than just use a spear. He has been shown using a parasol too and with the amount of things Waddle Dees have done over the years that is enough for a varied moveset.

Finally, we'd have a character who uses a parasol! He could be another Peach echo. IMHO, we're not likely going to get many new characters, and there's too many good choices over a waddle dee.

 

[Drawcia]

Waddle Dee is not a main character. That's like saying Birdo is a main character. Marx has a real moveset, at least. If I were in charge and had to add a Kirby character (though I don't think I would), it'd be a combo of Mr. Shine & Mr. Bright, each taking turns in/out of the sky. Not relevant but interesting. If Sakurai was forced to add another Kirby character, I'd bet he'd pick something weird like "Star Allies" which would be a bunch of frienemies rolled into one.

Not Waddle Dee; BANDANA Waddle Dee.

Bandana Waddle Dee has been in the series since Kirby Super Star, and is part of the main squad of Kirby Characters (that being Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Bandana Dee.)

While the species of Waddle Dees aren’t main characters, Bandana Dee certainly is.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Finally, we'd have a character who uses a parasol! He could be another Peach echo. IMHO, we're not likely going to get many new characters, and there's too many good choices over a waddle dee.

Yea, say that to all the sword users.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Name an indie. Any of them. Shovel Knight, Shantae, Sans, Monika, Meatboy, Cuphead, Yooka-Laylee, Baldi etc

All (mostly) perfectly good characters in their own right, and I'd be down to play them in their OWN version of Smash, but I'd rather keep them the heck away from Smash Bros.

I guess ironically I'd be more leniant with Steve even if he's my least favourite option because Minecraft is actually a big deal.

 

[WertQuadNine]

I'm against any other Animal Crossing rep. I know they're all super popular, and I think they deserve a place in smash, but not as fighters. I just can't see Isabelle or Tom Nook in a fighting game roster.

Also, I agree with the whole Indie thing. I still kinda support Shovel Knight since I personally love the game and character, but I would be perfectly fine if no indies made the cut.

 

[Runic_SSB]

I just can't see Isabelle or Tom Nook in a fighting game roster.

What about Resetti?

 

[WertQuadNine]

What about Resetti?

Probably the best option, but still ehhhh

 

[DarthEnderX]

Name an indie. Any of them. Shovel Knight, Shantae, Sans, Monika, Meatboy, Cuphead, Yooka-Laylee, Baldi etc

Do people actually consider WayForward to be an indie developer?

They've made games in franchises like DuckTales, Adventure Time, Ninja Turtles, Silent Hill, Double Dragon. They've been around for ages. The Shantae franchise has four games in it spanning 4 console generations now.

So HOW exactly is it that people consider Shantae an indie character?

Is it because they Kickstarted a game? Lots of non-indy companies have Kickstarted games. Obsidian, Double Fine, Deep Silver, etc.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Had a talk on Reddit about why I don't want Giygas playable, figured I should repost here.

Giygas is fascinating to me because unlike Kirby's, Bayonetta's or pretty much any Final Fantasy character's final bosses, he doesn't follow the standard JRPG formula of the heroes killing a literal God by grinding levels and having the best equipment. His attacks are indescribable, his defense is unbreachable, and no one, not even Ness after conquering the evil inside himself, could ever hope to defeat Giygas by attacking him directly. It's only through the power of song and love in the first game, and prayer and friendship in the second that Giygas is actually defeated.

I just feel like assigning someone like that a moveset with strengths and weaknesses and matchups to consider just weakens Giygas thematically as a character. Even making Giygas a tier that would make Bayonetta, Fox and Brawl Meta Knight weep would make him less interesting, because you needed to give Giygas, whom you're told over and over in both games that "You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas' attack!" a moveset.

Also I view Giygas as a Nintendo villain on the level of Andross or Mother Brain; They're the final bosses/main villains of their series, but because they're either too large or too powerful, they rely on their second-in-commands to antagonize the heroes through the game; Andross has Wolf, Mother Brain has Ridley, and Giygas has Porky.

If Giygas makes it in Ultimate, I personally feel that his role should be either an Assist Trophy that attacks everything, or Porky's Final Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Also I view Giygas as a Nintendo villain on the level of Andross or Mother Brain

There are no other Nintendo villains on Giygas' level...

 

[Impa4Smash]

Geno.

I know he has a good chance of getting in, but if there was to be another Mario rep that got in other than Daisy...well there's just so many great choices - Captain Toad/Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi (if he wasn't an AT), Kamek (even as a 2nd Yoshi rep) - that are all much more relevant and, IMO, more deserving.

 

[AquaSol]

Ashley, Impa, and Lyranroc. Of course I'm going to buy the game even if they get in, but I'm not a fan of them. I honestly don't see what Ashley can bring to the roster, and I don't know what makes her so popular in the first place. Was she marketed more than other characters in WarioWare like 9-Volt and Jimmy? Not too sure there, and I think that's where my general dislike comes from. Guess I just need to be convinced.

I had a little conversation in a Zelda thread about Impa when I called her a "boring" character. I don't believe it now as much as I did, but I still think that she is. The Zelda roster needs better representation. Right now, we have three Links, Zelda and Sheik (who are the same entity), and semi-Clone Ganondorf. I see a lot of people rallying for Impa as an echo - and I think that says something about how unique she can really be. Even if she isn't an echo, I feel that she wouldn't bring anything interesting to the game. Just another fast and nimble character. Wielding a big sword and using magic isn't that interesting - and her playstyle in Hyrule Warriors is all that.

Even before Ultimate's reveal in March, I always thought that Mimikyu was the obvious pick for Smash, with Decidueye right behind. I like Lyranroc a lot (used it and Decidueye in Pokemon Sun), but I just don't get it. Midday and Midnight were never marketed as special Pokemon, and Dusk was probably made way after Sakurai saw generation 7 designs. I just think that Mimikyu would be the most interesting fighter of the three.

I don't mean to knock anyone's opinion, but that's the way I see it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

What about Resetti?

Speaking of, hope his assist trophy is back in Ultimate. He’s one of my favorite little parts of Animal Crossing, and it’d be cool to see him.

Isabelle is actually one of the few characters I see making actually sense as an Echo as a moment of fan service too, just with more cutesy animations. Basically the opposite of what Daisy does with Peach’s moves.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Do people actually consider WayForward to be an indie developer?

They've made games in franchises like DuckTales, Adventure Time, Ninja Turtles, Silent Hill, Double Dragon. They've been around for ages. The Shantae franchise has four games in it spanning 4 console generations now.

So HOW exactly is it that people consider Shantae an indie character?

Is it because they Kickstarted a game? Lots of non-indy companies have Kickstarted games. Obsidian, Double Fine, Deep Silver, etc.

Probably because Shantae was lumped with Shovel Knight as an 'Indie rep' during Sm4sh speculation and it stuck in the minds of those speculating at the time.

But fair enough, with this new information I'll post a correction;

I don't want any indie...or Shantae in Smash.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Was she marketed more than other characters in WarioWare like 9-Volt and Jimmy? Not too sure there, and I think that's where my general dislike comes from. Guess I just need to be convinced.

Yeah, she has been marketed more than other WarioWare characters outside of Wario. Especially with things like the Badge Arcade on the 3DS. I think people like her visual design and her attitude/personality. Warioware characters will probably bring some wackiness and, depending on whom if any appears, the theme will be different. Mona would probably pull from her occupations, 9-Volt from retro Nintendo titles or hardware, and Ashley/Red with her magic. I personally prefer Ashley to Mona.

 

[WertQuadNine]

Geno.

I know he has a good chance of getting in, but if there was to be another Mario rep that got in other than Daisy...well there's just so many great choices - Captain Toad/Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi (if he wasn't an AT), Kamek (even as a 2nd Yoshi rep) - that are all much more relevant and, IMO, more deserving.

The thing with Geno is that a lot of people don't really consider him a Mario character. Of course, he is, but since he's only had one previous game way back on the SNES many just consider him as a retro character. If you look at him with that mindset, you might be able to see why he's so requested.

 

[Impa4Smash]

The thing with Geno is that a lot of people don't really consider him a Mario character. Of course, he is, but since he's only had one previous game way back on the SNES many just consider him as a retro character. If you look at him with that mindset, you might be able to see why he's so requested.

Oh, I know why people want him in, and I'd be fine if he got in. I just don't personally care for him

 

[oxyborb]

Not Waddle Dee; BANDANA Waddle Dee.

Bandana Waddle Dee has been in the series since Kirby Super Star, and is part of the main squad of Kirby Characters (that being Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Bandana Dee.)

While the species of Waddle Dees aren’t main characters, Bandana Dee certainly is.

I don't think so. With or without a bandana, waddle dee is a side character. He's not the hero or antagonist. He isn't a part of any of the plots. He just is a character to play as or in the background. He's like Nabbit from Mario. He's just there, not a main character, just on the role call.

 

[UserKev]

Had a talk on Reddit about why I don't want Giygas playable, figured I should repost here.

Giygas is fascinating to me because unlike Kirby's, Bayonetta's or pretty much any Final Fantasy character's final bosses, he doesn't follow the standard JRPG formula of the heroes killing a literal God by grinding levels and having the best equipment. His attacks are indescribable, his defense is unbreachable, and no one, not even Ness after conquering the evil inside himself, could ever hope to defeat Giygas by attacking him directly. It's only through the power of song and love in the first game, and prayer and friendship in the second that Giygas is actually defeated.

I just feel like assigning someone like that a moveset with strengths and weaknesses and matchups to consider just weakens Giygas thematically as a character. Even making Giygas a tier that would make Bayonetta, Fox and Brawl Meta Knight weep would make him less interesting, because you needed to give Giygas, whom you're told over and over in both games that "You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas' attack!" a moveset.

Also I view Giygas as a Nintendo villain on the level of Andross or Mother Brain; They're the final bosses/main villains of their series, but because they're either too large or too powerful, they rely on their second-in-commands to antagonize the heroes through the game; Andross has Wolf, Mother Brain has Ridley, and Giygas has Porky.

If Giygas makes it in Ultimate, I personally feel that his role should be either an Assist Trophy that attacks everything, or Porky's Final Smash.

This is a justifiable synonym but Giygas is a joke character now, basically. That's how powerful he is. Have you seen The_non Giygas in mugen? He's the original meme. Not to say he should be playable.

 

[LokiTheFlameshied]

Crash, K.Rool, Goku(should be obvious, but I'm still gonna say it), Waluigi, Paper Mario, Banjo Kazooie and Rayman. I know there are others, but those are the main ones.

 

[smash puffle]

Sans. Just Sans.

 

[Drawcia]

I don't think so. With or without a bandana, waddle dee is a side character. He's not the hero or antagonist. He isn't a part of any of the plots. He just is a character to play as or in the background. He's like Nabbit from Mario. He's just there, not a main character, just on the role call.

Bandana Dee was one of the main characters in RtDL, appeared in both core-series 3DS games, and was Kirby’s partner in crime in Kirby Battle Royale.

 

[lordvaati]

While I question the existence of this thread and wonder if this pushes the rules of this section, I guess it works as a way for people to vent out so sure.

Outside media characters like Goku,Hello Kitty, Scott Pilgrim etc: i feel like doing this would be the jumping of the shark point and change the series from a celebration of gaming history into modernized MUGEN.

Zoroark:the experiment failed- this did not become Lucario 2.0 like many expected, the thing is overshadowed by it's own pre-evolution in popularity, and the only place it's relevant nowadays is the Trading card game. Despite this many still think it will the Gen 5 rep, even though the title of most popular G5 Mon is currently surpringly enough Chandelure(and guess who got into Pokken???)

Waluigi in Ultimate: Waluigi himself I'm generally ok with, but he's already an AT and I feel adjusting a game with maybe 3 more months of work on it to turn them into a fighter, on top of having to re record lines for codecs/guidances and check for bugtesting due to that slight change is not bloody worth it. I get that one Brawl mod was pretty popular back in the time but I feel only 1/3rd of this demand for him is genuine and the rest is coming from either trendchasers or people filling the "tall purple evil character not in Smash" rant void.

 

[LittleKrool]

Characters I don't want in Smash Brothers.

Any WarioWare character that isn't Ashley, really. I'd rather see them as assists or part of a WarioWare stage. Ashley is by far the only newcomer I want, aside from Paper Mario but that's all.

 

[GravelerChamp60]

I would choose Paper Mario. I'm generally not a fan of characters that are redone in different forms. And then there are a few people who say that Waluigi is a joke character yet they want another Mario in the game.

 

[Organization XIII]

I would choose Paper Mario. I'm generally not a fan of characters that are redone in different forms. And then there are a few people who say that Waluigi is a joke character yet they want another Mario in the game.

Well I mean that's completely different. Paper Mario is a main character of his own series with tons of unique abilities so while he would be "another Mario" he would be unique character. His popularity stems from good games that endear the players to the series while Waluigi is mainly famous for the memes.

 

[Pacack]

I'd like to preface that, while I would likely warm up to any of these characters if they were included, I don't see the merit in their inclusion at the moment, and don't want to see them included.

• Mipha, Daruk, Urbosa, or Revali. Frankly, even Beedle has more reason to be included than these guys. Other characters from Zelda that make more sense to me include Impa, Tingle, Tetra, Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, and Beast Ganon.
• Chorus Kids. I recognize that they might be interesting if they're actually included, but I'd personally rather see Karate Joe, Tap Trial Girl, Marshal, or the Rhythm Monkey first.
• Geno. I just don't see the appeal, especially when practically every other Mario character is more recognizable.
• Incineroar. I'd get over it, but I got really tired of the physical, bipedal fire type starter a few years ago. See: Blaziken (was okay), Infernape (eh), Emboar (really?). I know that the character would be interesting, but I think Pokemon has better things to offer.

 

[Horologium]

The thought of Birdo scares me. Not because of the gender debate, but because Birdo doesn't lay eggss. They're spit out. That bothers me. And putting Birdo would spark the debate once again, and I don't think Nintendo wants that.

 

[Yitsul]

Forgive me if I have to reiterate.

• Any disney character ever: My personal dislike of disney aside, Smash would lose its point if the likes of Mickey Mouse or Wreck it Ralph came in
• Toad: just a generic civilian, undistinguished.

 

[PersonManThingamajig]

Geno - I'm not all that big of a fan of Geno, and I really don't feel like he should make it over characters like Waluigi, Captain Toad, or even King Boo.

Chorus Men/Boys - While I do want a Rhythm Heaven character, I personally don't want it to be them. To me, they don't really represent the franchise as well as Karate Joe, for instance.

Other than those two, I wouldn't really mind anyone else as of right now.