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Characters as Costumes & Costumes in General

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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ARMS was odd because some characters were not that different. The majority were, of course. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl were pretty much the same bar their special abilities and a few mannerisms. They were meant to be really damn similar, though.

That said, despite this, those with the same bodyframe were pretty different anyway. So it wouldn't have worked much beyond 3 characters at most(Springtron as an alt). I do wish some of Min Min's alts were semi-references to the other characters, instead of just recoloring.

That also said, Min Min is a character who had a very unique niche that stood out better than just a swappable ARM(which, unfortunately, were rarely dependent on a single character. This is part of what fueled the argument). I don't remember people assuming the alts would be other characters, though. Just entertaining the thought at best?

That doesn't make them like the Captains, though. They(Captains) actually are carbon copies, but lack the same bodyshape.

I'd still rather just have a new Pikmin Captain at that point, that way we can get the new Pikmin some good love~
 

Kirbeh

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Before I get into a little rant of mine, I just wanted to let everyone know that’s I’ve made a similar thread for opinions on Echo Fighters.

With that out of the way, I’d like to vent about how people see Bowser Jr. and Hero and assume they can just apply their logic to any character. When a character from ARMS was revealed to be the first fighter in Fighters Pass Vol. 2 nearly four years ago (God I’m ****in’ old), one of the assumptions was that multiple ARMS characters would be costumes akin to Hero or Bowser Jr. despite the fact that in ARMS, all of the characters have significant differences from each other, even among the ones with a similar body shape.

This highlights a pet peeve of mine, in which Smash fans take characters who are even vaguely similar to each other in some way and make them alts of each other.
I mean, I do address this in the OP. One of the reasons I did so was to hopefully reduce the number of those suggestions. That said, it's still not a perfect measure, after all, everyone has a different view on which cases might be acceptable to them.
 

superprincess

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Before I get into a little rant of mine, I just wanted to let everyone know that’s I’ve made a similar thread for opinions on Echo Fighters.

With that out of the way, I’d like to vent about how people see Bowser Jr. and Hero and assume they can just apply their logic to any character. When a character from ARMS was revealed to be the first fighter in Fighters Pass Vol. 2 nearly four years ago (God I’m ****in’ old), one of the assumptions was that multiple ARMS characters would be costumes akin to Hero or Bowser Jr. despite the fact that in ARMS, all of the characters have significant differences from each other, even among the ones with a similar body shape.

This highlights a pet peeve of mine, in which Smash fans take characters who are even vaguely similar to each other in some way and make them alts of each other.
I can't believe people unironically thought Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara and Min Min could be under the same slot. It never made sense to me, and I got proven right, because look at how many kicks Min Min has in Smash.

However, there are certain instances where the concept does work. My aforementioned idea with the four FE protagonists would definitely work (given that Smash doesn't care about height differences anyway) and at least some of the Pikmin captains could be alts for Olimar. If they could do it with the Koopalings, they can do it with someone like Louie, Brittany or Pikmin 4's Captain.
 

LukidukeBubz

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I’ve said this on another thread, but I would like to say that Bowser Jr and the Koopalings should be echo fighters instead of costumes. Bowser Jr could keep the cannonball and the Koopalings could have their magic and little differences like that.
This makes it so that we can get colors for Bowser Jr’s hair, bib, and maybe like a Mario Wonder helmet thing for a costume. Idk what to use for the 8th Koopaling, maybe just a normal Koopa?
 

fogbadge

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You know it seems a shame that some characters only get to be costumes when some costumes get to be characters. Thinking of you doc

and alph. it’s a shame he didn’t get to be an echo but I also wonder if that also ended up preventing him and olimar from having more interesting pallet swaps. granted the ones they have aren’t great but I think it’d have been kinda neat to have one based on the colours of a bulborb. or perhaps one that combines all the pikmin colours
 

Kirbeh

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I’ve said this on another thread, but I would like to say that Bowser Jr and the Koopalings should be echo fighters instead of costumes. Bowser Jr could keep the cannonball and the Koopalings could have their magic and little differences like that.
This makes it so that we can get colors for Bowser Jr’s hair, bib, and maybe like a Mario Wonder helmet thing for a costume. Idk what to use for the 8th Koopaling, maybe just a normal Koopa?
I'd like for this as well. While they're at it, get rid of the random fork in his tilts and replace them with strokes from his paintbrush.

As for the Koopalings, in the scenario that this thread proposes you wouldn't need a replacement "8th" as each one would get a full set of colors of their own. What I'd like for Smash to do is adopt the same system as most other fighting games where full-on alternate costumes also get a full set of palette swaps just like the base costume.

Granted I don't think they'll actually go that route, but it'd be the ideal imo.

If they do separate Jr. from the Koopalings though, then put in Nabbit or Lakitu as the 8th. Or for a really deep cut go with the Koopa Kid from Mario Party. OR if they want to mess with people, put in Baby Bowser from Yoshi's Island.
 
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Kirbeh

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Maybe Classic Sonic could be an alt for Sonic?
Wouldn't work due to the difference in height and proportions.
and Boom Sonic too (not joking)
This one could actually work without looking awkward as you just need to make the Boom design a tad shorter to work over regular Sonic. The real problem is whether SEGA would want to acknowledge Boom in such a way. Sonic's color options are already quite limited due to their restrictions, plus I highly doubt they'd push for content from Boom over anything from the main series.
 

fogbadge

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Wouldn't work due to the difference in height and proportions.

This one could actually work without looking awkward as you just need to make the Boom design a tad shorter to work over regular Sonic. The real problem is whether SEGA would want to acknowledge Boom in such a way. Sonic's color options are already quite limited due to their restrictions, plus I highly doubt they'd push for content from Boom over anything from the main series.
i dunno. they reference 06 and shadow the hedgehog all the time so i doubt they're against acknowledging games that bombed
 

Kirbeh

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i dunno. they reference 06 and shadow the hedgehog all the time so i doubt they're against acknowledging games that bombed
It's not so much that it bombed and more so that it's not an in-house effort by Sonic Team. Outside of a single Mania track in Smash, there aren't really any examples I can think of where Sega pushes exposure/acknowledges outsourced titles. The main place you see these sorts of things referenced is in other outsourced media like the other cartoons and comic books.
 

fogbadge

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It's not so much that it bombed and more so that it's not an in-house effort by Sonic Team. Outside of a single Mania track in Smash, there aren't really any examples I can think of where Sega pushes exposure/acknowledges outsourced titles. The main place you see these sorts of things referenced is in other outsourced media like the other cartoons and comic books.
good point
 

The SafeKeeper

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Sonic's color options are already quite limited due to their restrictions,
I've never understood these bizarre restrictions. Sure, I'd understand SEGA wanting Sonic to only be blue if he were to make a cameo in say a television show or a film as it's more likely that there will be people watching who aren't familiar with him. However, how many Smash fans don't know who Sonic the bloody Hedgehog is? It reminds me of Pac-Man and his pitiful arm bands. Totally unnecessary.

Pretty sure gamers would be able to immediately recognise a green Sonic or a purple Pac-Man, so I don't see why SEGA and Bandai Namco still refuse to budge on this complete non-issue.
 

The SafeKeeper

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Maybe Ganondorf could switch between his Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess designs.
Yes please. I assume I'm in the minority, but I really miss TP Ganondorf. Granted, Captain Falcon's moveset works much better on OoT Ganondorf, but that's another kettle of fish.

One of my Smash pipe dreams is for something akin to this mod to finally become a reality.
 

Kirbeh

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The Enderman has smaller arms than Steve, so Classic Sonic could still work
What about the significant height difference?

Plus you're not taking into account that the arm length on the MC cast is still uniform, the width isn't the concern there. Not to mention that the MC characters have some of the simplest models (and barely animate) with the likes of Alex and Zombie being simple texture swaps as opposed to actual model changes.

These aren't comparable examples at all.
 

Northsouthmap

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What about the significant height difference?

Plus you're not taking into account that the arm length on the MC cast is still uniform, the width isn't the concern there. Not to mention that the MC characters have some of the simplest models (and barely animate) with the likes of Alex and Zombie being simple texture swaps as opposed to actual model changes.

These aren't comparable examples at all.
Well Sora has height differences between his KHII and KHIII alts
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Classic Sonic doesn't really have any differences from a glance except for the height, everything else is even more minor than Sonic's actual Smash alts. If you make Classic Sonic the same height as Modern Sonic, you've basically got nothing.

TBH, Classic Sonic should just be Sonic's design in Smash as a whole, but that's a story for another day.
 
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fogbadge

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personally i'd find it rather jarring if sonic was suddenly bright red. or any other colour for that matter
 

Kirbeh

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Well Sora has height differences between his KHII and KHIII alts
Incorrect. As Perkilator already mentioned, Sora in Smash retains his KH1 height for all costumes, only the outfit changes. (Timeless River gets a new model but also retains the same height and proportions.)

You ought to to verify these things before posting blatantly incorrect information.
Classic Sonic doesn't really have any differences from a glance except for the height, everything else is even more minor than Sonic's actual Smash alts. If you make Classic Sonic the same height as Modern Sonic, you've basically got nothing.

TBH, Classic Sonic should just be Sonic's design in Smash as a whole, but that's a story for another day.
How is losing a third of the height and having smaller proportioned limbs more minor compared to changing the fur tint and cuffs? That's flat out a wrong statement.

And if you make Classic Sonic taller, he's going to look awkwardly stretched out.

As for the last point, I kinda actually agree there. Rather, I don't think modern Sonic should be outright replaced but his current kit being restricted to the classic era and Sonic the Fighters would fit much better on Classic Sonic.
personally i'd find it rather jarring if sonic was suddenly bright red. or any other colour for that matter
Any more jarring that DK's fur turning green? Or Ganondorf's skin turning blue?

I'd settle for accessories if Sega refuses to budge on colors but they seem to be limiting that to just the cuffs for whatever reason.

Or you know actual costumes would be nice if they want him to stay blue. Sonic's gotten plenty of outfits over the years.
1712071853546.png
 

FazDude

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If they wanna keep Sonic blue, fine, but the alts we have right now are really bland. Maybe have some alts which change his shoes to resemble that of his friends and/or give him little trinkets based on the games - The SA2 upgrades, Chip's bracelet from Unleashed, stuff like that.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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How is losing a third of the height and having smaller proportioned limbs more minor compared to changing the fur tint and cuffs? That's flat out a wrong statement.
I think you're missing what I'm saying - I am saying that stretching Classic Sonic out to fit Modern Sonic's proportions would remove the difference between the two, not that there is none in the first place.
 

fogbadge

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Any more jarring that DK's fur turning green? Or Ganondorf's skin turning blue?

I'd settle for accessories if Sega refuses to budge on colors but they seem to be limiting that to just the cuffs for whatever reason.

Or you know actual costumes would be nice if they want him to stay blue. Sonic's gotten plenty of outfits over the years.
View attachment 387400
if anything that’s how i know it’d be jarring

what’s that costume from btw ?
 

Kirbeh

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I think you're missing what I'm saying - I am saying that stretching Classic Sonic out to fit Modern Sonic's proportions would remove the difference between the two, not that there is none in the first place.
I understood that, but my point is why would you do that? It would look bad.
if anything that’s how i know it’d be jarring

what’s that costume from btw ?
So, you'd rather the characters not have color options? If all they did was change DK's tie for example, it wouldn't exactly be much of a change/differentiator between players. I personally don't see the problem with the way colors are for the rest of the cast, it's kind of the norm in fighting games. Changes in the color of clothes, hair and even skin tone are common. Making cool palettes for players to choose from is a net positive imo.
Screenshot 2024-04-02 132007.png


And the Sonic costume is from one of the mobile games; Sonic Forces: Speed Battle.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I understood that, but my point is why would you do that? It would look bad.
Yes, and I was saying that that would be a bad thing

Classic Sonic doesn't really have any differences from a glance except for the height, everything else is even more minor than Sonic's actual Smash alts. If you make Classic Sonic the same height as Modern Sonic, you've basically got nothing.
I was agreeing with you, and adding an extra perspective as to why a Classic Sonic alt is a bad idea.
 
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fogbadge

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So, you'd rather the characters not have color options? If all they did was change DK's tie for example, it wouldn't exactly be much of a change/differentiator between players. I personally don't see the problem with the way colors are for the rest of the cast, it's kind of the norm in fighting games. Changes in the color of clothes, hair and even skin tone are common. Making cool palettes for players to choose from is a net positive imo.
View attachment 387401

And the Sonic costume is from one of the mobile games; Sonic Forces: Speed Battle.
now that i didn't say. i just said that there's been enough slightly jarring pallet swaps for me to believe that sonic with tails' or knuckles' colour schemes might look very weird. and even then i think it depends on the colours used. blue banjo looks odd while green is kinda funny.

also pink corrin looks very weird
 

Kirbeh

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Yes, and I was saying that that would be a bad thing
My bad then. With how you worded that particular post, I thought you were using that as a point in favor of making classic Sonic into a costume.
now that i didn't say. i just said that there's been enough slightly jarring pallet swaps for me to believe that sonic with tails' or knuckles' colour schemes might look very weird. and even then i think it depends on the colours used. blue banjo looks odd while green is kinda funny.

also pink corrin looks very weird
That's fair, though at that point it comes down to personal taste over functionality. In a set of 8 (or ideally more) I'm sure everyone's got certain color combinations they favor or dislike. It'd be no different for Sonic, it's just more so the fact that Sega won't even allow it for whatever reason that may be.
 

Perkilator

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Another thing I’d like to say regarding canon attire as alts; more specifically, for hypothetical newcomers.

In Xenoblade 3, the main party can switch classes at will, which also switches out their outfits. If Noah and Mio got into Smash and their movesets utilized weapons from Eunie, Taion, Lanz and Sena’s respective classes, I’d want their alts to be based on the different outfits they wear in their home game.
IMG_2827.jpeg

IMG_2829.jpeg
Colors 5 and 6 for each character would only be aesthetic changes but you get my point.
 
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LukidukeBubz

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I'd like for this as well. While they're at it, get rid of the random fork in his tilts and replace them with strokes from his paintbrush.

As for the Koopalings, in the scenario that this thread proposes you wouldn't need a replacement "8th" as each one would get a full set of colors of their own. What I'd like for Smash to do is adopt the same system as most other fighting games where full-on alternate costumes also get a full set of palette swaps just like the base costume.

Granted I don't think they'll actually go that route, but it'd be the ideal imo.

If they do separate Jr. from the Koopalings though, then put in Nabbit or Lakitu as the 8th. Or for a really deep cut go with the Koopa Kid from Mario Party. OR if they want to mess with people, put in Baby Bowser from Yoshi's Island.
The Lakitu for the 8th is a good idea as is the paintbrush.
 

Quillion

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Princess Peach Showtime has some really interesting potential alts and not just with the 10 costumes. through out the game you can get alternate patterns and colours for her default dress and a lot of them would be neat in smash
Maybe what they could also do is incorporate the "Sparkle Ribbon" so that it replaces the old d-smash animation where she cuts with the hem of her dress. Instead she could spin the ribbon around her down towards the ground.

That way, her animations won't be so dependent on her dress and she can wear different costumes.
 

fogbadge

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Maybe what they could also do is incorporate the "Sparkle Ribbon" so that it replaces the old d-smash animation where she cuts with the hem of her dress. Instead she could spin the ribbon around her down towards the ground.

That way, her animations won't be so dependent on her dress and she can wear different costumes.
at the very least we can recolour that one ribbon attack she already has
 
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