Character Specific Counterpicks/Bans: Kirby

[[FBC] ESAM]

So Ikes, which one is better for your character: BF or Brinstar? BF will be stage struck anyway, but which one is more bannable?

 

[Ussi]

Japes is far from Ike's best stage. However he is on the higher end for being good at the stage. Only characters that are bad are like Falco, somewhat Samus, and probably a few others that I can't think of..

But Alt is right, Pikachu will be shooting him/herself in the foot picking japes

edit@ESAM:

We like battlefield more, Ike can get lava pressured on Brinstar plus battlefield is much more common to play on so easily more experience with it.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I dunno, I could see Brinstar being much more troublesome.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

There's those long lasting hit boxes on brinstar, which means you can react easier to hits.

 

[KayLo!]

From the Pika POV, I would feel much more at ease playing on BF than Brinstar...... BF is a good Ike stage, but Brinstar is just plain horrible for Pika.

 

[Ussi]

I'll say this... Both Pikas and Ikes are used to battling on BF than Brinstar. Soo ban Brinstar if you don't want to be taken there cause there are those Ikes who love to use wacky stages. But most stick with BF

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So if pikachu banned...halberd for some reason (just an example) and Pika won the first match, where would the Ike go assuming Pikachu had no secondaries?

 

[Ussi]

Against Pikachu, Ike wants a small stage so Pikachu can't run away a lot or camp as effectively. Platforms being an added bonus.

That's Battlefield in a nutshell. The 2nd choice would be brinstar. The lava and extended hitboxes while help at times, can be used against us too. Ike already lags hard enough and nair on the blobs will actually kill Ike so he's limited to fair at times.

If we won on battlefield already or it's banned, and the Ike was only comfortable with nuetrals, Yoshi's would be the next pick.

Stages like rainbow cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1/2, and halberd would evenly effect Ike and Pikachu and just come to player counter picking

Lylat is probably better for Pikachu a tiny bit due to the tilting stage but the platforms really compliment Ike's huge range being small and closer to the ground

Castle Seige and Delfino have walk off gimmicks that are % situational. However Ike can play a good "don't get grabbed game" against Pikachu's short grab range if he takes the incentive to be as lagless and spacious as possible. Delfino's water will definally be Ike's terrority. Castle Seige is first: Ike's favor 2nd: Evenish (abusing the statue is not actually good... It leaves open longer to be punished. Very easy to get a grab to walk off CG, however be wary of those mindgames) 3rd: Pika's favor

but the walk off gimmick is what would keep me away from delfino and CS having that backfire effect when there are safer counterpicks.

I can't speak for Green Greens. norfair is actually a very fun stage. I personally love it as Ike (Platform abuse to its finest) and Pikachu (Hit and run + thunder not hindered). But never exactly played the MU on it.

 

[KayLo!]

Japes isn't legal anyways (since, iirc, we're going by the MLG list).

 

[Heartstring]

Japes isn't legal anyways (since, iirc, we're going by the MLG list).

im going by uk ruleset, which means luckily japes is banned, but in any situation i'd always ban it because i mainly get vertical k.o's plus i hate the fast flowing water, the stage in general just destroys me XP but on the other hand i like frigate, i guess im jsut a wierd ike.
i would always pick battlefield over any other stage, but if its banned then ill either go to brinstar or lylat, (lylat is a neutral in uk instead of ps1) because its fairly similar to bf, but with the middle platform also being acessible to ikes utilt and usmash, plus the tilting will screw up pika's QAC a smidgeon and could leave them open for an attack.

 

[Ussi]

I only said lylat/PS1 cause they are interchangeable as starters as many people hated lylat enough. i personally love Lylat for screwing with spacies

 

[Heartstring]

I only said lylat/PS1 cause they are interchangeable as starters as many people hated lylat enough. i personally love Lylat for screwing with spacies

i just love lylat, you have to space the recovery perfectly with some characters, but ike isnt one of them because you can move horizontally slightly during the recovery, however characters like falco, diddy, marth and (most importantly in this thread) pikachu have a lot less forgiveness in recovery in comparison

 

[Ussi]

Granted you have to be more precise with your QA as Pikachu but its doable to be precise with Pikachu since you control the direction.. technically

 

[Heartstring]

Granted you have to be more precise with your QA as Pikachu but its doable to be precise with Pikachu since you control the direction.. technically

ok, im guessing i didnt explain waht i meant right, basically waht im saying is that if you get in the wrong place its easy to get caught under the stage, whereas its a fair bit harder to get this to happen to ike

 

[Ussi]

... getting the wrong place gets you kills you on any stage...

Ike will get screwed over by Lylat over Pikachu waaaaaay more often. Pikachu technically isn't phazed by the tilting or recover when he controls his directions precisely


While the tilting does make everyone's recovery more predictable, it hurts Ike more than helps him since his recovery is already pathetic.


EDIT: Since you're using MLG standard so that's a 9 starter set

strike order: BF, YI, PS1/Halberd/Lylat/Delfino/CS, SV, FD

"/" = player preference, i ordered them in my preference

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Does anybody object to using Ussi's list?

 

[KayLo!]

Nope, looks good to me.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Updated. Jigglypuff time!

Reasoning:

BF, FD, SV, and Lylat he can fly under all day. If jigglypuff can do anything against us, it is stall like a *****. Levels without a part you could fly under are beneficial, such as Yoshi's, PS1, and Castle Siege.

CP to Halberd because even though part of it he can go under, T-jolts are better on those parts and it also has a low ceiling for even earlier kills. PS1 because Jiggs cannot fly under, and it is a good Pikachu level.

Ban Brinstar or Norfair first. They are the best stalling levels for sure. Pretend its a worse wario that is floatier. The floatiness is why you might also want to ban PS2. If the wind part goes on, she can rising pound the entire time and you can't touch her.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

She can go higher than thunder?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

On PS2 hell yeah she can.

 

[Alphicans]

So... Why are you guys discussing m/u against ****ty characters? Ganon, ike and now jiggs?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

because ****it ONE DAY we will come across a low tier player that knows his ****s and ****IT WE MUST KNOW HOW TO CP IT

 

[~automatic]

So... Why are you guys discussing m/u against ****ty characters? Ganon, ike and now jiggs?

Last time I checked Diddy, Falco and GnW weren't considered ****ty chars.

Uh PS1 is good I suppose. Mostly because Jiggs wouldn't be able to fly under. I also like Castle Siege but I just like that level for everything so w/e.

Esam pretty much posted what I was thinking but with a bit more detail. I hate being late to these things. =P

 

[KayLo!]

So... Why are you guys discussing m/u against ****ty characters? Ganon, ike and now jiggs?

We're going in alphabetical order.

 

[ElNoNombreHombre]

So... Why are you guys discussing m/u against ****ty characters? Ganon, ike and now jiggs?

Well, those of us who came to Brawl Pikachu via Melee Pikachu understand what's it's like to be low tier, so we wish to show our respect and understanding for those who are below us (and to those who got knocked down there, as anyone who went to Melee Pikachu from 64 Pikachu also understands), so that they may know that they have not been forgotten.

We're going in alphabetical order.

OK, actually, this. But mine sounds more cheezynoble, so that's the answer I'm sticking with.

But more on topic. Is flying under the stage really that good a trick for Jigglypuff? I'd have thought it would be something of a liablility to get yourself gimped/edgehoged or something. Especially since tjolt is kind enough to go chase anyone underneath the stage (nearly?) anywhere where this is possible.

I'm not questioning, so much as merely curious.

 

[Alphicans]

We're going in alphabetical order.

Oh I see, that's acceptable then lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I always go to FD or PS1 vs Jiggz, and never BF, CS, or YI.

 

[KayLo!]

Inviting the Jigglers.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

I came.

Japes is a common Jiggler CP, but it might not be too effective on Pika. Pika has a decent horizontal recovery, so skull bash and quick attack will prevent you from being screwed over by the river. Ceiling kills are going to be hard because of the high blast box, but I don't know if that’s significant.

Brinstar might be something to avoid though, mainly because Pika can't take advantage of the terrain like Jiggler can. This stage will limit your options because of the way Jiggler moves under and about it. The acid, platforms, and breakable terrain overwhelm many non aerial characters.

Also...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBoUEDhXDS0

 

[Ussi]

We're using MLG standard, so japes is banned

Not like it helps Pikachu much since thunder is hindered and Jiggs moves a lot in the air... so fsmash is hard to hit with I would say...


Personally I'd think Halberd is a good stage.. but how good can Jiggs shark under the stage?

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Personally I'd think Halberd is a good stage.. but how good can Jiggs shark under the stage?

Halberd and Delfino give Jigglerpuff great sharking opportunities, and she can use them well. She uses mainly u-airs and f-airs, and it's really effective on characters that can't defend against it.

Pikachu might not be affected as much as others, and I suppose a d-smash could out prioritize any sharking attempt made by Jigglerpuff.

 

[PZ]

FD is a nuetral. Halbird should be a ban. I recomend cping.....................Man I have no clue low blast points that dont help Jiggs. JJ is bad since jigs fair is a easy kill. JJ also help pika to if you can hit jigs with fsmash.<.< I think frigate is a good cp.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Why do you people keep talking about Japes? It isn't legal and it isn't considered in the stage list.

Also, why would you ban halberd PZ?

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, I'm wondering why people keep bringing up Japes too, lol. I thought it was legal for a few pages since everybody kept talking about it....... x.x

Jiggs can shark on Halberd, but I don't think it's a big enough con to ban it. I wouldn't CP there either though, personally.

 

[Pikabunz]

The low ceiling on Halberd ***** Jiggs.

 

[KayLo!]

Oh? Maybe I should go there then, lol.

I'm just not much of a Halberd fan. I know, I know, good Pika stage, but I don't play well there. Dunno why.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

The low ceiling on Halberd ***** Jiggs.

It's not that low. It might also give Jiggler earlier rest kills. Perhaps around 65%-70% due to Pika's light weight.

I'm not saying it's something to ban, but it's probably not something to CP.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Why are you getting hit by rest?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Halberd isn't the best choice imo even with the low ceiling, sharking is more powerful then people give it credit for ;[

 

[Ussi]

Well half of halberd is sharkable the other half is a large stage with a platform

guess you can say the same with delfino but in smaller intervals of switching on and off

guess stage doesn't matter as much besides sharking?

How good is Jiggs's platform abuse game?