Character Specific Counterpicks/Bans: Kirby

[Vex Kasrani]

Vex genius, two people already agree with him :]

 

[altairian]

I'd definitely go PS1 over YI. Personally I think YI is our worst neutral, even on MLG's janky neutral stage list >_>

 

[r3d d09]

IC's are going to have a difficult time doing this since IC's aren't active... but i'll probably pop in and give you what i think. basically get strike flat stages

 

[KayLo!]

Ah, that's unfortunate.

Well, in what order do you think an ICs main would strike their neutrals?
Also: what are you guys likely to ban/CP?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Ah, that's unfortunate.

Well, in what order do you think an ICs main would strike their neutrals?
Also: what are you guys likely to ban/CP?

CP FD/SV

Ban Brinstar/RC

 

[Rubberbandman]

CP FD/SV

Ban Brinstar/RC

This. BF is also very viable as a Counterpick, since most will ban FD on the spot.

For stage striking, we are trying to force it to BattleField or Smashville, which it will most likely go to anyway, since those are the most popular starting stages and YI is just silly. The movement on Lylat is almost beneficial to an Ice Climber trying to set up Ice Block Traps, so forget about playing that stage too much.

I always see it going:
IC: Strike - Lylat
Pika: Strike - FD
IC: Strike - YI
Pika: Strike - whatever.

 

[r3d d09]

what RBM said.

 

[Sieguest]

what RBM said.

*sigh* Missed another party.... I blame school...

Anyway, as of recent, (at least as far as our latest and like the rest, failed attempt at another stage discussion which really doesn't seem so recent anymore...) I don't think smashville is all too high and mighty any more, too many ways for crap to happen on the moving platform x.x

 

[Rubberbandman]

I don't think smashville is all too high and mighty any more, too many ways for crap to happen on the moving platform x.x

Its better for a CP against Ice Climber just because of the fact it moves. Allows camping on it and being just annoying in general.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

When the platform is above the level we can't really do much. Would you guys prefer stagnant platforms that we can move from and shoot down at you?

In other words, SV or BF is better for you guys? What about Halberd?

 

[Rubberbandman]

The movement of the platform on SV is more in pika's favor because of its camping possiblities, the only real trouble it brings is UAirs when it goes by us. BF allows you a lot more vertical space to move around in, but it makes you a lot more vulnerable to UAir traps while you stand on the platforms. I myself prefer Battlefield because it sets up for itself, you cant stay on the platforms too long, and you dont want to stay on the bottom too long either.

I have no idea about Halberd, sorrizies.

 

[Lore]

In other words, SV or BF is better for you guys? What about Halberd?

Halberd is curved when it's floating, right? That might mess with their cg's a bit. There's also the fact that there are several hazards in the second (on the ship) part.

However, the big middle platform probably invites a lot of Uair action.

We need someone to test Halberd out against a good IC.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Halberd is curved when it's floating, right? That might mess with their cg's a bit.

Just to squash that thing, CURVES DONT EFFECT CHAINGRABS AT ALL. Jeez, people see a curved edge and think that can really slow a *** down. <_<

 

[Lore]

Just to squash that thing, CURVES DONT EFFECT CHAINGRABS AT ALL. Jeez, people see a curved edge and think that can really slow a *** down. <_<

I could have sworn that they can affect downthrow chaingrabs, but I wasn't sure to begin with.

Sorry, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Ya, curves don't effect the chaingrab, unless you're doing fthrow downhill probably, but that would still work with the correct timing, just it would be harder. Bthrow to Dthrow on a curve isn't effected at all.

 

[PZ]

I think IC's uair ***** on platforms. I think norfair would be a good cp because its harder for cgs and camping. FD would be probably your best nuetral against them. Does Tjolt beat blizzard if so the FD is a good neutral I think.

 

[KayLo!]

Tjolt does go through Blizzard. (Pretty sure all projectiles do, iirc. I think it has transcendent priority.)

 

[PZ]

Ok so FD is a good CP.

Edit: err... neutral

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Ok so FD is a good CP.

Edit: err... neutral

No, its awful as a neutral vs IC's.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So for IC, SV<BF<Halberd?

 

[PZ]

No, its awful as a neutral vs IC's.

Sorry for the bad help I guess if I know the mu well or been around the other boards Ill suggest some.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Ok so FD is a good Death Wish vs ICs

Corrected for maximum accuracy.

So for IC, SV<BF<Halberd?

Pretty much, I don't have much exp on halberd so I can't say too much about it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Updated. Ike time!

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Somebody get Pikapika's opinion. ;-;

 

[Pikabunz]

Ban Brinstar! There's so many of those things that extend his powerful hitboxes.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

brinstar and castleseige. definitely cp to FD, platforms seem to help ike alot. i was able to beat mr doom on FD lol

 

[Ussi]

CP: Frigate, FD, SV
Ban: BF, Brinstar, any other stage you're bad at

Strike: BF, Yoshi's, Lylat/PS1, SV, FD

 

[KayLo!]

Ban Brinstar.
CP FD or Frigate.

 

[M15t3R E]

The thing about Ike is, he doesn't want you to know how to approach him. Ban any stage that you believe hinders your ability to approach him, and you got the match in the bag.
FD is a great stage to take him to.

 

[~automatic]

Brinstar and CS make those heavy hits linger a bit so ban those. Yoshi's should also be considered imo because the level is kinda short so a CG wont be as long and the horizontal blast zone is a bit closer so that Ftilt will kill a bit sooner, also those **** ghosts always seem to save Slayn and Krad's Ike.

CP Final Destination or Lylat.

 

[ElNoNombreHombre]

+1 for ban Brinstar. I'd go with banning that over Castle Siege because even though he can extend those hitboxes on the statues, I would think the existence of the fthrow chaingrab ending in a walkoff-KO can potentially make that choice of stage very dangerous for Ike as well

Definitely CP Frigate to muck with his recovery. After that, go with whichever flat, (nearly-)featureless, boring stage you like.

I am curious about people's selection of Lylat as a CP though. I'd figure the platforms would help Ike more than the stage titls would hurt him?

 

[Ussi]

+1 for ban Brinstar. I'd go with banning that over Castle Siege because even though he can extend those hitboxes on the statues, I would think the existence of the fthrow chaingrab ending in a walkoff-KO can potentially make that choice of stage very dangerous for Ike as well

Definitely CP Frigate to muck with his recovery. After that, go with whichever flat, (nearly-)featureless, boring stage you like.

I am curious about people's selection of Lylat as a CP though. I'd figure the platforms would help Ike more than the stage titls would hurt him?

when it comes to lylat, Ike and Pikachu both do well on it. The platforms are perfect for Ike since Uair, nair, and usmash exceed the length of the platforms so getting stuck on it really sucks. Tilting has screwed me over like 1 out of 2-3 games.

Tilting makes jolt spam more effective and gimps Ike sometimes, the spaces between the platforms are good for thunder...

I'd say its fairly neutral there. FD and frigate are a better choice.

 

[altairian]

...why has NOBODY mentioned RC as a counterpick? He's probably going to ban it, but if he doesn't I'd say it's the best stage to CP Ike to. He doesn't have the speed to catch you in any weird gimps off the left side, and his crappy second jump and lack of versatility on his recovery make it pretty easy for the stage to screw him over, especially around the pendulum platform.

 

[Ussi]

...why has NOBODY mentioned RC as a counterpick? He's probably going to ban it, but if he doesn't I'd say it's the best stage to CP Ike to. He doesn't have the speed to catch you in any weird gimps off the left side, and his crappy second jump and lack of versatility on his recovery make it pretty easy for the stage to screw him over, especially around the pendulum platform.

Because Ike isn't bad on RC, if Ike is getting gay'd by this stage, he doesn't know how to fight on it. Simple as that. Only MK spells disaster for Ike on this stage. Anyone else is workable thanks to fair (range) + nair/uair (AD eater)

The reason Ike's ban the stage so much is because they won't want people to just CP RC + MK on them. Frigate is much more easier to deal with than MK on RC

 

[global-wolf]

I don't know much about this matchup (or any matchup actually -_-) but wouldn't the moving platforms on Frigate help his recovery sometimes? And the platforms on the stage don't seem to hinder him either.

 

[KayLo!]

Sometimes they might, but imo, the no-ledge side hurts him even more.

Inviting the Ikes.

 

[Ussi]

I don't know much about this matchup (or any matchup actually -_-) but wouldn't the moving platforms on Frigate help his recovery sometimes? And the platforms on the stage don't seem to hinder him either.

One the first part of the stage, throw Ike off to the right, and continue to edge guard him until the platform goes up and away from him...

On the 2nd part the platform is quite big making it harder to abuse it.

The biggest issue for Ike in this specific MU is that Ike cannot reverse pressure you when you are the one recovering from the right side on the first part.

Ike is overall on the worse edge (Like bottom 10 for sure) on Frigate compared to the rest of the cast. Since He can't exploit it against Pikachu in particular, good CP for Pikachu against Ike.

 

[san.]

Ike doesn't have very much space to work with on the first transformation of frigate, and pika is definitely one of the tougher characters to get back on the right side, especially since pikachu has easy ways of hitting ike in that direction.

FD is more of a static advantage, because frigate flipflops around, and Ike can still abuse platforms. on FD, Ike's approaches are much more simple and easier to take apart piece by piece. Ike will definitely be cautious with an approach on FD, and once he sees an opening, will try to take it and pressure you and disrupt your stage control, which isn't hard to avoid cause it's FD XD.

Stages where you feel you can control the stage well and camp Ike for personal preference also work. Stages with more space to work around usually work better in this regard.

Ban BF/brinstar, a given. Ike may also try CP stages like castle siege and maybe delfino (kinda not as good vs pika) or comfortable Ike stages like Pokemon Stadium if BF is banned to avoid strong character counterpicks.

 

[Heartstring]

ban bf against ike, unless youre marth (and pika is nothing liek marth), ike will be wanting to go there.

for your cp, go wherever you want, i dont think ike has any stages where he can really capitalise on pikachu, although brinstar is the one to avoid if any (that and battlefield) if you really want to screw most ikes up go to japes, although its almost certain it will get banned

 

[altairian]

if you really want to screw most ikes up go to japes, although its almost certain it will get banned

I'm not trying to be mean, but you couldn't be more wrong. Japes is one of Ike's best stages if they know how to use it (find vids of san on japes...). Not to mention japes actually hinders pika's ability to kill greatly with how retardedly high the ceiling is.