Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[Nigerian Star Storm]

hmm... this list doesn't take into accaout that some characters are just played more often than others. I think you should account for this discrepency somehow.

I think Ankoku does a great job by limiting how many points a Top 8 gets you, popularity alone won't all too many points over Top 4 placings and Wins.

Also, as we're seeing with Zelda and Lucas, Good characters are rising, slowly but surely.

 

[SLIM]

Why is pokemon trainer so low on the list? squirtle's great, ivysaur is ok, and charizard kills.

 

[Zankoku]

The same reason the other characters are so low on the list - because they haven't been doing well in tournaments.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Oh I don't know, maybe because it's a TOURNAMENT RESULTS LIST and not a mock Tier list.


These results are undisputed facts, they can't be argued. Like already said, if a character you think is good isn't performing that well, then either you need to rethink your analysis or the character just hasn't been put to good enough use to place, because they are being used.



Edit:Son of a ***** Ankoku you beat me

 

[Tyr_03]

It's interesting just looking at the wins of each character rather than their points. Wario is tied with MK with 14 if you go just by wins and yet Marth who is above Wario has only 3. I'm not sure exactly what that says. Maybe we just have a lot of really good Wario players around winning tourneys. Either way it's good to see that debatedly Wario is doing just as well as the top levels.

 

[Excellence]

The numbers seem quite large for Marth, putting his representation up there. Yet, how many Wario players do you know? And he's up there in A Rank. Yeah, if for some odd reason everyone played Snake (lol New England), then there'd be little room for representation among any other characters, but that rarely is the case. Or are you saying there's a lot of Snakes, making Snake more likely to win? Because that's terrible logic. And, if you're saying Snake is only up there because of popularity and there are characters that can be really good that nobody is using... are you taking everyone else for morons? Tell me, would you pick Bowser or Kirby in Melee because you think they're really amazing characters in competitive play? People naturally gravitate toward what appears to be the strongest character to them, which happens to be one of the 10 or so in the S, A, and B ranks typically. If you're claiming some character isn't able to let his potential shine, well, that's the fault of all the people who use that character and don't represent in tournaments, isn't it?

That remains to be proven. Using hypothetical situations to argue against objective gathering of data is kind of moronic.

Marth vs. Wario is a good example, Wario who isn't too popular (though I know plenty of them), is still pretty high up in the ranks. Could you muse on the rankings if the number of Warios increased? More people would play him, new techniques would emerge, and overall he'd become a lot more competitive and probably push higher through the ranks.

Because so many people are using a specific character, you have so many combinations going into the same code, eventually someone cracks it, in this case you 'unlock' a character's abilities and learn to utilize them to their full potential. This is what I'm trying to point out, Snake is so high in standings because he's obviously popular and with that comes more play time. Eventually he's going to get to his maximum potential, which we're currently seeing. Where as, people have yet to see someone like Wario really shine, but when he does it's quite amazing, right?

Have you ever seen someone play a low ranking character like Peach and then kick a competitive Marth's *** making it look easy? This is a prime example of how Marth gameplay has reached it's peak, yet Peach's probably has not.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think Ankoku does a great job by limiting how many points a Top 8 gets you, popularity alone won't all too many points over Top 4 placings and Wins.

Also, as we're seeing with Zelda and Lucas, Good characters are rising, slowly but surely.

but MK and Snake's popularity makes them impossible to catch, even if other characters deserve to.

I know MK and snake are the best characters so far, but characters like Marth and Game and Watch are MUCH closer in skill to Meta and Snake than the list illustrates.

It's neat list, but its results are terribly missleading.

 

[Zankoku]

Marth vs. Wario is a good example, Wario who isn't too popular (though I know plenty of them), is still pretty high up in the ranks. Could you muse on the rankings if the number of Warios increased? More people would play him, new techniques would emerge, and overall he'd become a lot more competitive and probably push higher through the ranks.

Because so many people are using a specific character, you have so many combinations going into the same code, eventually someone cracks it, in this case you 'unlock' a character's abilities and learn to utilize them to their full potential. This is what I'm trying to point out, Snake is so high in standings because he's obviously popular and with that comes more play time. Eventually he's going to get to his maximum potential, which we're currently seeing. Where as, people have yet to see someone like Wario really shine, but when he does it's quite amazing, right?

Have you ever seen someone play a low ranking character like Peach and then kick a competitive Marth's *** making it look easy? This is a prime example of how Marth gameplay has reached it's peak, yet Peach's probably has not.

You're basically reaching into the stupid little game of theorycraft, where characters aren't at their "full potential" yet so they're better than everyone thinks. And you know what? That's great, but my list doesn't reflect the future - it reflects the present (and some past).

but MK and Snake's popularity makes them impossible to catch, even if other characters deserve to.

I know MK and snake are the best characters so far, but characters like Marth and Game and Watch are MUCH closer in skill to Meta and Snake than the list illustrates.

It's neat list, but its results are terribly missleading.

After I get the last of the results from today's tournaments, I'm going to start a new summer rankings list to give all the characters a fair chance now that the game's been played for three months. I'll keep all previous seasonal lists and still keep a grand rankings list, of course.

 

[Excellence]

but MK and Snake's popularity makes them impossible to catch, even if other characters deserve to.

I know MK and snake are the best characters so far, but characters like Marth and Game and Watch are MUCH closer in skill to Meta and Snake than the list illustrates.

It's neat list, but its results are terribly missleading.

Though I don't agree Snake is one of the best characters so far, I do agree with you that this list is very misleading.

 

[Excellence]

You're basically reaching into the stupid little game of theorycraft, where characters aren't at their "full potential" yet so they're better than everyone thinks. And you know what? That's great, but my list doesn't reflect the future - it reflects the present (and some past).


After I get the last of the results from today's tournaments, I'm going to start a new summer rankings list to give all the characters a fair chance now that the game's been played for three months. I'll keep all previous seasonal lists and still keep a grand rankings list, of course.

It's not stupid, you said it yourself, people gravitate towards characters they believe are the best. Suppose Snake was extremely hard to use, and it made him appear suck-ish at first glance. I guarentee he wouldn't be as high ranking as he is, simply because less people would play him to figure out what makes him good.

 

[Zankoku]

Except that you don't have any solid evidence that there is, in fact, potential to be explored. Again, pointing at Yoshis and Ganondorfs and saying they'll be really good somewhere down the line really isn't going to accomplish much. Picking Yoshi or Ganondorf and taking that character to a high level is. Which will then be reflected in my list. Is there something you don't see here?

 

[Darkmusician]

wow! Zelda just gained like 22 points since I last checked this list...

^__________^

I wanna get her all the way up there. Only about 100 or so tournaments to go. And that's assuming that Snake and MK become banned. @_@

 

[choknater]

i have an amazing yoshi vs rob video that i recorded this weekend

anyway, even if i do bring potential out of characters that people didn't believe in (sheik, yoshi, sonic) it doesn't matter because they might continue to be unpopular.

oh well, i'm fine as long as i **** snakes and yoshi can infinite wario.

 

[Excellence]

Except that you don't have any solid evidence that there is, in fact, potential to be explored. Again, pointing at Yoshis and Ganondorfs and saying they'll be really good somewhere down the line really isn't going to accomplish much. Picking Yoshi or Ganondorf and taking that character to a high level is. Which will then be reflected in my list. Is there something you don't see here?

Prove me wrong (if you can), that this list is dangerously flawed because there are more people playing Snake, than other characters.

 

[Sliq]

Except that you don't have any solid evidence that there is, in fact, potential to be explored. Again, pointing at Yoshis and Ganondorfs and saying they'll be really good somewhere down the line really isn't going to accomplish much. Picking Yoshi or Ganondorf and taking that character to a high level is. Which will then be reflected in my list. Is there something you don't see here?

Like me! I'm the greatest!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

^__________^

I wanna get her all the way up there. Only about 100 or so tournaments to go. And that's assuming that Snake and MK become banned. @_@

Were that I could join you in your quest, but my skill is not up to snuff.

I'll continue spreading the teachings of zelda in regional matches though, no need to let her falter with semi-pros.


And I agree with the OP's most recent post: older tournies are kind of.... what's the word I'm looking for... irrelivant? now because the game has eveolved since then

 

[Zankoku]

Prove me wrong (if you can), that this list is dangerously flawed because there are more people playing Snake, than other characters.

If Snake keeps winning, I see no reason why people shouldn't play Snake. :V That's like telling them "Hey your character's garbage even though everyone plays and wins with him. Pick someone else." If Snake is indeed "garbage" like you think he is, it'll be shown in the seasonal lists when people apparently stop picking Snake because he's such a terrible character. >_>

 

[Excellence]

No it won't. Reason being if there are so many more Snakes compared to other characters, he's obviously going to have a much better chance of placing well. Because your point system, he's probably going to accumulate more points. Someone is going to top 8, someone is going to top 4, someone is going to win. Where as lesser played characters won't have suck justice.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

No it won't. Reason being if they're are so many more Snakes compared to other characters, he's obviously going to have a much better chance of placing well. Because your point system, he's probably going to accumulate more points. Someone is going to top 8, someone is going to top 4, someone is going to win. Where as lesser played characters won't have suck justice.

Yes it will. Ankoku said that if Snake was garbage, more people would drop him for someone else. This would mean that less people play snake/place high with him and that would be reflected in his list.

Get it?

Bad Character->less people play him
less people playing a character->reflected in this list.

Therefore, it snake is a bad character, it will eventually be reflected in this list.

 

[Zankoku]

So your logic is that everyone's picking a garbage character and that's why he's at the top of my list? Never mind the fact that he's won more tournaments than any other character by far, but really? And never mind that you're saying he'll end up being a really poor character, but he'll continue dominating tournaments? Are you even listening to yourself?

 

[Excellence]

I'm not saying Snake is garbage, I'm actually a big fan of Snake, I just don't think he's the best and he's been enflated far too much. Witchking, gave me the answer to what I was saying. But do you ever believe enough people will drop Snake enough to push him down? I don't.

 

[Zankoku]

He doesn't need to be pushed down, because the summer rankings list is a restart. I'm going to stop replying to you, because you're way too busy throwing out posts that completely contradict what you said before. -_-

I'm going to stand by my opinion, Snake is garbage. Yes, I said it, go ahead and flame me if you believe you need to, but in my eyes he's garbage.

 

[Morrigan]

DEAL WITH IT AND STOP COMPLAINING.

Spoiler

please

 

[papermarkis]

So this is basically the argument:
Ankoku: Snake is probably good because he's been winning a lot of tournaments
Excellence: Snake is probably garbage because I say so

 

[Tyr_03]

If 100 people entered a Melee tournament and 99 of them played Ness and one of them was Ken playing Marth, Ken would still win. That's because Ness sucks in Melee. It has nothing to do with how unpopular he is. He is simply an inferior character. Even Simna who is undoubtedly the best Melee Ness player could not beat Ken with Ness (I haven't seen him playing very many big names other than that but I doubt he could beat m2k, pc, cort etc. consistently with Ness either.)

Although the gap between tiers in Brawl is debatedly less expansive than it was in Melee, the results are the same. Some characters are worse than others no matter how popular they may be. I'm not saying that Ankoku's list will give us a perfect demonstration of which characters are better than others in a few years, but right now with the metagame developement where it is, this is a moderately accurate portrayal of which characters will do better than others. In a few years it may very well be different but that's not what this list is about. It's about now. And if you really don't think it's accurate than trying playing Ganondorf or Samus up against a good Snake player. You might find that you quickly change your mind. I honestly see no reason for debate over the validity of this list given that it is based on actual tournament data.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Ankoku, I deal with a person someone very similar to Excellence on Gamefaqs daily, I can understand how **** annoying it gets.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

snake is the best character in the game lol it's not hard to see or understand

 

[Gimpyfish62]

I'm going to stand by my opinion, Snake is garbage. Yes, I said it, go ahead and flame me if you believe you need to, but in my eyes he's garbage.

I'm not saying Snake is garbage, I'm actually a big fan of Snake

lol

ggz

 

[papermarkis]

snake is the best character in the game lol it's not hard to see or understand

No man, Bowser is. LOL. All you have to do is Side-B 3 times! FTW!!!11!!1

 

[Browny]

dont forget to be using the higher # controller port when you do

oh **** lol double post >_>

 

[Browny]

yay lucario got 2 wins overnight lol

hes going all the way, you heard it here first

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

FAIL!

Link just can't be that low :'(

Oh well, he kicks *** anyway

 

[Gimpyfish62]

HOW IS *insert favorite character here* SO LOW?! HE'S MUCH BETTER THAN THAT. YOUR LIST IS DUMB.

 

[Ilucamy]

I'm kinda surprised Wolf and TL are so low on the list. This is a really good idea since most other people are determining tiers based on ability. Concrete facts are always better than opinion. Nice job!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

HOW IS *insert favorite character here* SO LOW?! HE'S MUCH BETTER THAN THAT. YOUR LIST IS DUMB.

<_< that's what you said about bowser constantly. Hypocritical much?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i said that when i was ******** for like 3 of my earliest months of playing melee, as soon as i got decent at all i realized how horrendous bowser is. Bowser was HORRIBLE in melee and since i got decent AT ALL i NEVER claimed that bowser was good.

wow. bowser is so bad. i'm probably one of the only people in the world that knows just HOW bad he is.

EDIT: just to be clear in what i'm saying - i haven't said bowser is anything other than bad in about 2 years

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i said that when i was ******** for like 3 of my earliest months of playing melee, as soon as i got decent at all i realized how horrendous bowser is. Bowser was HORRIBLE in melee and since i got decent AT ALL i NEVER claimed that bowser was good.

wow. bowser is so bad. i'm probably one of the only people in the world that knows just HOW bad he is.

EDIT: just to be clear in what i'm saying - i haven't said bowser is anything other than bad in about 2 years

not in melee. in brawl.

I seem to remember you saying how awsome Bowser was in brawl and how stupid everyone else was for thinking any differently. And brawl's only been out for a few months...

maybe it was only early on in brawl, but still... I seem to remember this.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

at e for all he seemed pretty improved and after e for all and owning the game i never once sang his praises

sorry but you aren't remembering correctly

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

i said that when i was ******** for like 3 of my earliest months of playing melee, as soon as i got decent at all i realized how horrendous bowser is. Bowser was HORRIBLE in melee and since i got decent AT ALL i NEVER claimed that bowser was good.

wow. bowser is so bad. i'm probably one of the only people in the world that knows just HOW bad he is.

EDIT: just to be clear in what i'm saying - i haven't said bowser is anything other than bad in about 2 years

You were ********?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i thought bowser was good so yes lol