Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[hizzlum]

Falco (32 top8, 12 top4, 12 top2, 5 wins) - 485.1
Marth (38 top8, 26 top4, 14 top2, 5 wins) - 380.4 - 3
When I looked at this I was slightly puzzled...

Marth has 6 more top 8's,14 more top 4's, and 2 more top 2's. Now I understand Ankoku that money is also put into play when you do your tournament rankings, but marth has had better tournament sucess than falco, especially in the top 4 section, yet he is 100 points below falco.
In my opinion the tournament money thing is distorting the accuracy of a character's tournament sucess (In this case marth, but G&W has better placement in EVERY category than falco you have here ankoku and here u have G&W under falco.
Just something to keep in mind, however this is a great thread.

 

[Zankoku]

Marth may have enjoyed more tournament success in several smaller tournaments, but SK92's Falco placed 4th at Axis, with 302 entrants, while Marth failed to even get a top-eight placement.

 

[shadowlink3]

Oh nevermind axis was put it, it was 303 entrys, not 302. i dunno if the 1 makes a dif. but it does

 

[Emblem Lord]

Who cares how inferior characters like Falco or Marth do?

Are you people not reading this ****?

MK is the one that matters and Snake matters somewhat as well.

 

[Morrigan]

God tier:
Metaknight

Sh¡t tier:
The rest

 

[hyperknees91]

God Tier
MK

Tourny Viable
Snake

Crap tier:
The rest

There you go slightly fixed and pretty depressing, but it's the plain truth.

 

[TheWii]

I think Snake is better than MK, but there is alot more MK players.

**** Olimar is falling back!

 

[gantrain05]

I think Snake is better than MK, but there is alot more MK players.

**** Olimar is falling back!

i think meta will fall from top tier, its just that everyone and their brother chose to learn meta right from the start of brawl, so his "meta" game developed faster than everyone elses, i mean think about it, how much skill does it really take to play meta at a decent level compared to oh say someone like peach? meta is a heck of alot easier to use, i think once people start bringing other characters metagames to their limit MK will fall.

 

[YoshiBomb]

My friends have a gaming club at there school that hosts tournys every month but its only open to people at that school ( I only get to go cause I went to the first one before the rule was changed )
So if I wanted to post the results how should I go about it since I doubt I could make a thread about it.
The club does have a myspace that tourny people can post at would that be good enough place to post the results.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Who cares how inferior characters like Falco or Marth do?

Are you people not reading this ****?

MK is the one that matters and Snake matters somewhat as well.

This.
I advise everyone to read it.

 

[choknater]

metaknight sucks

 

[EdreesesPieces]

can I request you moving “snake” as one of the characters DSF used? I believe he honestly used him once, or twice out of his 14 or 15 sets to first place. Don’t feel like snake deserves those points, just meta. Its basically giving snake credit for meta’s god tier status. Lol. In all 6 matches of the final he went meta as well.

 

[hyperknees91]

i think meta will fall from top tier, its just that everyone and their brother chose to learn meta right from the start of brawl, so his "meta" game developed faster than everyone elses, i mean think about it, how much skill does it really take to play meta at a decent level compared to oh say someone like peach? meta is a heck of alot easier to use, i think once people start bringing other characters metagames to their limit MK will fall.

wishful thinking.

his metagame developed faster because it was obvious to everyone he's the best character in the game.

Seems pretty efficient doesn't it?

 

[gantrain05]

wishful thinking.

his metagame developed faster because it was obvious to everyone he's the best character in the game.

Seems pretty efficient doesn't it?

exactly, just like melee, shiek was top tier forever, then people figured out waveshines and crazy combos with it, and now its undisputable that fox is top tier, its the same thing, shiek in melee was probably the easiest character to learn, therefore her metagame developed very quick, but as the game progressed, others caught up with her and even passed her. i think the same will happen with meta.

 

[Zankoku]

Except that Sheik's metagame developed relatively quickly and then stopped, while Meta Knight's is still improving...

Edrees, DSF used Snake in order to win against Plank and guarantee his spot in the grand finals, so I figure that's significant enough usage. Meta Knight is already in a rank of his own when July phases out, anyway.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Fair enough

For Meta to slow down I really do you think you'd need the advent of something on par with L cancelling and wavedashing to be discovered to change the way the game is played so much. I feel that's what happened to Sheik. Sure L canceling helps her too, but relatively it helps everyone else much more, especially Fox.

 

[Overswarm]

I find it amusing that if l-canceling and wavedashing were in Brawl, Metaknight wouldn't too big of an issue. lol indeed.

 

[ShadowLink84]

hmm l-canceling and wavedashing. how nice.

 

[Adapt]

I find it amusing that if l-canceling and wavedashing were in Brawl, Metaknight wouldn't too big of an issue. lol indeed.

What do you think the top 7-8 characters would be if wavedashing and l-canceling were included in brawl?

I guess including wavedashing would have to mean that the directional airdodging mechanic of melee replaces the airdodge mechanic of brawl.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

game and watch 6?! wolf 13?!? what the hell happened?

 

[Tenki]

What do you think the top 7-8 characters would be if wavedashing and l-canceling were included in brawl?

I guess including wavedashing would have to mean that the directional airdodging mechanic of melee replaces the airdodge mechanic of brawl.

You'd have to keep in mind that alot of airdodgeable juggles would become much riskier to escape, if you're left in the "AHH I AIRDODGED AND NOW I CAN'T DO ANYTHING" state.

Also, wtf would happen to Snake and Sonic's recovery?

Cypher explosion spam? Spring wavedash? lolwut.

 

[Emblem Lord]

wtf

People...get serious. MK has the BEST basic and fundamental traits to do well in this game.

Awesome pokes, great frame traps, can't be put into disadvantageous situations, can't really be edgeguarded, etc.

And you think he will fall?

The metagame is now stagnant. There is nothing left.

This game belongs to MK.

Deal with it.

 

[Samochan]

Didn't gimpy say meta's gonna be the best char in the game when E for all demo came out? >_>

It's been known for a long time folks. Meta owns the game.

 

[Tyr_03]

^^^
lol that's a little bit extreme.

 

[gantrain05]

wtf

People...get serious. MK has the BEST basic and fundamental traits to do well in this game.

Awesome pokes, great frame traps, can't be put into disadvantageous situations, can't really be edgeguarded, etc.

And you think he will fall?

The metagame is now stagnant. There is nothing left.

This game belongs to MK.

Deal with it.

i wouldn't really say the game is stagnant, i think you have just given up on it lol. i guess too many metas got the best of u.

 

[Zankoku]

You're one to talk. You live in the Midwest, home to about 5 good Meta Knight players in the entire region.

 

[gantrain05]

You're one to talk. You live in the Midwest, home to about 5 good Meta Knight players in the entire region.

oh ok, so now your just discriminating against me because i live in the "midwest" omg so what? you honestly think that makes me any less informed. i know how annoying meta is, but he's not unbeatable by any means.

 

[Zankoku]

If I'm discriminating against you "because you live in the Midwest," I'd be discriminating against myself. There is, however, no doubt that you can never actually tell how good a character might be until you play someone who's good at that character. Meta Knight is unbeatable. Imperfect players (of which there are plenty) aren't.

And yes, I do think that makes you less informed.

 

[Talvi]

So when will be time to ban it? xD

I mean, seriously, the MK ownage is relatively recent. Give it some more time.

 

[Emblem Lord]

gantrain: No. This game is shallow. It is one of the most shallow competitive games in existence.

Also I stopped going to tournaments months ago.

Why anyone would pay money to play a game that PUNISHES you for hitting the analog stick in a direction is beyond me.

The metagame is stagnant because we had people worldwide studying the game nonstop and constantly sharing info. So everything was figured out quickly and about 99% of the AT's found out had no significant impact on the metagame.

I speak the truth.

 

[choknater]

*loses respect for emblem lord humorously fast*

i **** metaknight, wow.

Spoiler

ice cilmbers

 

[Emblem Lord]

OH NOEZ!!!!

-_-

Seriously, if you have beef then talk about it. Don't make little comments.

Anyone that knows anything about me should know I love debates and discussion.

So...discuss.

 

[Mew2King]

you guys know nothing if you think Sheik's metagame stopped improving. That's the players fault for stop playing. I definitely believe Sheik as the best character in Melee.

 

[Zankoku]

How the hell does Sheik's metagame improve at all if nobody plays Sheik? I can't imagine it moving forward simply because you say so.

 

[.Marik]

What's with all the Yoshi hate!? D: When I enter tournaments, I swear, I will get Yoshi a higher ranking, more fame, and more respect! >:D

 

[Emblem Lord]

Melee was different BTW.

Melee's community was noob and didn't know jack **** about testing. So the game didn't truly evolve until I think around 05. That's Ken came around and really started using dash dancing and grab combos. Crap like that. The game sped up at the competitive level.

Also Melee vets put glass ceilings over aspiring players. Basically people would hit plateaus and not know how to improve and high level Melee players didn't want to teach them anything because most wanted to win money.

Most of the evolution in Melee towards the end was just Melee vets FINALLY exposing their secrets since Brawl was coming out.

Off topic, but just throwing it out there.

 

[choknater]

alright, my bad. want discussion? you got it.

gantrain: No. This game is shallow. It is one of the most shallow competitive games in existence.

Baseless opinion. You provide no evidence for this. With 30+ characters and boundless strategies, how can the game be shallow? By that same invisible logic, I can say that ST and 3s and melty blood are all very shallow also. Halo, counter strike, all shallow. Isn't it a matter of opinion? I just happened to not like your opinion.

Why anyone would pay money to play a game that PUNISHES you for hitting the analog stick in a direction is beyond me.

Wow, still whining about tripping? Sure, it is pretty dumb, but I think tournament results have shown that the best player still wins despite one small aspect. Tripping is also avoidable if, well, you don't run. (Gotta love playing Zelda, DK, or Lucario. Sometimes you can just walk around and jump with those characters and still win.)

The metagame is stagnant because we had people worldwide studying the game nonstop and constantly sharing info. So everything was figured out quickly and about 99% of the AT's found out had no significant impact on the metagame.

Who cares if all the AT's have been found. AT's have a great impact on the metagame, but they are simply the tools that players use to bring out the potential of the characters. Yes, it's true that smashboards and other sites have RAPIDLY accelerated the pace at which we gain knowledge of this game... But saying "everything was figured out" is just another baseless opinion. IMO, the Diddy Kong, IC's, Sonic and Yoshi metagames have barely even been tapped into.

I speak the truth.

Hm, so apparently, your opinion is the truth? Now you understand why I reacted to your post so negatively so quickly?

How the hell does Sheik's metagame improve at all if nobody plays Sheik? I can't imagine it moving forward simply because you say so.

Don't lose faith. Even if the world gives up on Sheik, I won't. If no one is left to pioneer her gameplay, I'll gladly do it alone.




I can't believe that very respectable SBR members are losing faith in the development of a 6-month old game. Or perhaps I'm just being TOO optimistic? Even so... doubting won't get you anywhere.

 

[Zankoku]

Mew2King was talking about Melee Sheik, choknater. XD

 

[choknater]

oh rofl melee sheik is way too good, koreandj boggles my marbles

 

[Emblem Lord]

I play Marth.

My best move is Dancing Blade. I have to hit forward to do it.

Now do you understand?

I didn't whine about tripping. It's simply an abomination. You can't justify it's inclusion at all. It's simply ridiculous.

Brawl is shallow compared to most fighters. I should have clarified. And there is an imbalance between defensive options and offensive options. I suppose that's a better way of looking at it. Not shallow, but the game mechanics are tilted to favor defensive play. Which isn't bad, but offensive play suffers greatly due to game mechanics like reduced hit stun, etc. Also the game is slow which doesn't help it's eye appeal.

Also I wouldn't say everything was figured out, but everything of significance was.

And I think at this point it should be clear that AT's don't make a winning character. Strong fundamentals do. Solid pokes, good speed, shield pressure, defensive options, etc.

If an AT can give a character these things then they will surely rise up on the tier list. Diddy's banana game is an example of this. With glide tossing, his fundamentals get a HUGE boost.

Also, try not to overreact in the future.

It's just Brawl.

It's not that serious.

Also...when have I ever implied that I had "faith" in Brawl?

My good man..I am a researcher. I go by my own eyes and my data and my own logic. Nothing more.

I won't lie to myself and act as though Brawl can hold a candle to the likes of Guilty Gear or Virtua Fighter.