Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[SmileyStation]

Ill be hosting a tourney in south texas in about a month in a half or 2. So ill use the info from that tourney as more "research material" for this thread. That and i wanna see kirby higher on those charts. >.< Keep up the good work ankoku. I love this thread and i LOVE the chart's format.

 

[skelo10]

i dont know about that list i went to a tournament about a week ago and it was almost all ikes. there was about 35 people and 27 were ikes. I hope pokemon trainer moves up the list eventually.

 

[thesage]

I think it's too early to look at tournament results. I was the only Ness main at the last tournament and I barely lost to people who both placed 7th. And it was my first brawl tournament (after getting the game).

Edit: NVM they got 13th and 17th each >_<;

 

[boom-man97]

hmmm
very interesting
definaltly want to see how it looks later

 

[Rawrness]

O-o...TL is...lower than I expected

 

[ChokE]

OMG, I was the only person that main Pit in the last tournament I attended in NorCal and I thought he was popular. Everyone want to play Ike. Even though i did well, i don't think it make a difference in the rankings because it was a crew battle.

 

[Recognize]

****, meta knight is still 2nd O.o

 

[Chip.]

Chiiiiiiiiiip!!!!

Anther!!

Guess what everybody? Anther won a tournament from what I hear ^_^. Boost some tier rep for Pika Pika! (and maybe Lucario)

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Of Course Meta-Knight is still second, he has about double the points of G&W/DDD.


don't expect him to drop anytime in the near future >_>.

 

[Zankoku]

Well, it's been about three weeks, and people's claims about Snake dropping once everyone figures him out? That seems a little disproven with Mass Madness 9 (Snake Snake Snake MK Snake Snake). It's quite clear that the characters that ended up in my S Rank really are that good. They're popular, they're still placing high (though Meta Knight is winning fewer tournaments nowadays)...

There's a little movement around in the other ranks, though. Ice Climbers is finally rising in position, Wolf isn't placing enough to maintain his A Rank position, and the remaining characters in A Rank have been shifting back and forth between each other. In other words, the metagame outside of S Rank seems to be growing and changing, at least.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

This is a very nice topic Ankoku, glad to see some tournament rankings. I feel MK dropping a rank and Snake basically running roughshod over everyone else.

Snake's probably going to be in a class of his own and the two ranks below will probably be the tournament viable group. As a C.Falc main, this makes me very sad in my heart.

 

[sagemoon]

I'm wondering what would happen if you take this months list of tournaments and compair it to next months? The S rank might stay the same but all the other things would change around. Like have a total list and then a list that gets reset every month. just food for thought.

 

[Zankoku]

I think I'll do that starting June. It'll probably end up replacing the NoTop8 and Wins Only lists.

 

[Aggression]

this is ********, infinite air/ground dodging and they think there's tiers?
what a joke, why is meta so high he cant kill for ****...
and zelda/sheik/yoshi/pkmn bottom tier? are they on crack?
it just keeps fluctuating so rapidly that we may never in our lifetime get a tier list(not that it even matters...)

there's virtually no difference in characters at all, the high tiers are just characters with the most projectiles/reflectors and ****

 

[Aggression]

This is a very nice topic Ankoku, glad to see some tournament rankings. I feel MK dropping a rank and Snake basically running roughshod over everyone else.

Snake's probably going to be in a class of his own and the two ranks below will probably be the tournament viable group. As a C.Falc main, this makes me very sad in my heart.

honestly snake is only good because of his mother @#$^ing camping tactics, remove his grenades and he becomes half a man

 

[HiddenBowser]

Is this guy for real? lol

 

[Zankoku]

this is ********, infinite air/ground dodging and they think there's tiers?
what a joke, why is meta so high he cant kill for ****...

You, sir, are the joke. But I make it policy to actually explain when I make such claims.

If Meta Knight can't kill for ****, why is he winning tournaments or at least placing very highly in them? I can't imagine he's just ****** everyone so hard that they're SDing three times.

and zelda/sheik/yoshi/pkmn bottom tier? are they on crack?

What's this about tiers? My rankings are just a list based on popularity with emphasis on tournament performance. All four of the characters you mentioned haven't made it far in tournaments very much at all.

it just keeps fluctuating so rapidly that we may never in our lifetime get a tier list(not that it even matters...)

I have no idea what you're talking about here, and I get the feeling neither do you.

there's virtually no difference in characters at all, the high tiers are just characters with the most projectiles/reflectors and ****

Pit has the most reflectors and a decent projectile. He's not top tier.

honestly snake is only good because of his mother @#$^ing camping tactics, remove his grenades and he becomes half a man

No johns.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

this is ********, infinite air/ground dodging and they think there's tiers?
what a joke, why is meta so high he cant kill for ****...
and zelda/sheik/yoshi/pkmn bottom tier? are they on crack?
it just keeps fluctuating so rapidly that we may never in our lifetime get a tier list(not that it even matters...)

there's virtually no difference in characters at all, the high tiers are just characters with the most projectiles/reflectors and ****

Is this guy serious? lol


Character presumed High/Top (at least according to my list, which I believe is relatively accurate) and number of Projectiles/Reflectors:
Top Tier:
Snake -3 if you don't count mines
Meta Knight-NONE
Mr. Game and Watch-ONE
Marth-NONE
Falco-2
R.O.B.-3


High Tier:
Toon Link-3
Ice Climbers-ONE
Pikachu-ONE
King Dedede-ONE
Wolf-2
Olimar-Debateable
Diddy Kong-ONE (bananas do not count
Fox-2
Pit-3
Wario-NONE
Kirby-NONE (Up B does not count)


More than half of presumed High/Top character only have 1 or less Reflector/projectiles. You sir fail. Everyone is not the same, Tiers exist etc.


Edit: Why are all the familiar Melee players in this topic from Michigan >_>.

 

[Aggression]

Is this guy serious? lol


Character presumed High/Top (at least according to my list, which I believe is relatively accurate) and number of Projectiles/Reflectors:
Top Tier:
Snake -3 if you don't count mines
Meta Knight-NONE
Mr. Game and Watch-ONE
Marth-NONE
Falco-2
R.O.B.-3


High Tier:
Toon Link-3
Ice Climbers-ONE
Pikachu-ONE
King Dedede-ONE
Wolf-2
Olimar-Debateable
Diddy Kong-ONE (bananas do not count
Fox-2
Pit-3
Wario-NONE
Kirby-NONE (Up B does not count)


More than half of presumed High/Top character only have 1 or less Reflector/projectiles. You sir fail. Everyone is not the same, Tiers exist etc.


Edit: Why do all the familiar Melee players in this topic in Michigan >_>.

what the hell is wrong with you? i mean theyre the same in the logic that EVERY character can air/ground dodge everything
so its just a matter of hit/miss or who has the most projectiles/reflectors/counters/high priority special abilities

put counters and items in there if you do everyone has one, and i use kirbys upb a ton, thats pretty projectiley

plus: meta: standard B ***** all, a going through anything attack could count as something, downB is like a counter, and disappearing is one hell of an ability
marth: counter
pika: has 2 thunder doesnt count?
G&W: downb is an absorber and an insanely strong short range projectile
olimar: is MADE of projectiles whut u talking about
diddy: bananas that make you trip every second doesnt count for something? yeah sure keep dreaming
wario: bike is fast and can be used as an edgeguard, tires used as constant throwing projectiles
IC: have 2...
ddd: has a chain grab
kirby/wario: can wario/kirbycide
snake: has like 6, b, up smash, down smash, sideb, downb, sliding motar counts too i guess

Panda Edit: I'll make a summary of what he just posted. "Hey guys, I want you to flame me because its obvious I'm just trolling for the lulz!" Much easier to read now.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Edit: Why do all the familiar Melee players in this topic in Michigan >_>.

What about Michigan smashers now?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Lol sorry about that, probably the worst grammar and spelling I've ever put out in a post >_>.

Also, thanks for the Panda edit >_>. Almost responded out of sheer boredom

 

[Aggression]

What about Michigan smashers now?

im not trolling... im actually making a point that most of the high tiers were decided because people who abuse camping/counters/reflectors/projectiles etc.

you didnt have to be a jerk, why are the mods so freaking mean on smashboards?

i mean seriously when someone says something that upsets someone else its automatically a troll? wow then i guess that means the mods have banned like 1000 people huh

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

im not trolling... im actually making a point that most of the high tiers were decided because people who abuse camping/counters/reflectors/projectiles etc.

you didnt have to be a jerk, why are the mods so freaking mean on smashboards?

i mean seriously when someone says something that upsets someone else its automatically a troll? wow then i guess that means the mods have banned like 1000 people huh

Because you're stupid.

 

[orintemple]

this is ********, infinite air/ground dodging and they think there's tiers?
what a joke, why is meta so high he cant kill for ****...
and zelda/sheik/yoshi/pkmn bottom tier? are they on crack?
it just keeps fluctuating so rapidly that we may never in our lifetime get a tier list(not that it even matters...)

there's virtually no difference in characters at all, the high tiers are just characters with the most projectiles/reflectors and ****

lol wat?

im not trolling... im actually making a point that most of the high tiers were decided because people who abuse camping/counters/reflectors/projectiles etc.

you didnt have to be a jerk, why are the mods so freaking mean on smashboards?

i mean seriously when someone says something that upsets someone else its automatically a troll? wow then i guess that means the mods have banned like 1000 people huh

They are only mean to those who fail, and you, sir, failed.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

im not trolling... im actually making a point that most of the high tiers were decided because people who abuse camping/counters/reflectors/projectiles etc.

you didnt have to be a jerk, why are the mods so freaking mean on smashboards?

Yes, Aggression, I'm such a jerk for removing your statement saying that you're better than every competitive smasher in the world, and that everyone must suck in comparison to you. I'm such a jerk for not even giving you points for saying something such an incredibly obvious troll post.

Hm... Aggression, given your name, I'd either assume you're a very angry person or your account was made for the sole purpose of making people mad.

 

[Scrubs]

People are reading to much into this thread!

This list isn't accurate as far as comparing one character to another. It only tells you which characters place where in tournaments and how frequently. It doesn't compare characters with each other accurately.

This is due to the difference in the amount of characters entering a tournament. And because you arbitrarily assigned points to a certain placing.

For example:

If there were 20 Snakes and 1 Yoshi in a tournament and the results were as follows.

1st: Yoshi
2nd....8th: Snake

Based on your system snake would receive 4 x 1 (top 8) and 3 x 3 (top 4)

Yoshi would receive 1x 5 for winning the tournament

So we have

Snake: 13 points
Yoshi: 5 points

Snake is above Yoshi on the list. Even though Yoshi won the tournament.

If this list were to be accurate you would need to do something like

( Characters of one type in top 8 / 8) x 1 point for placing in top 8
( Characters of one type in top 4 / 4) x 3 points for top 4

The winning character would get the full 5 because you would be dividing by 1

For example for Snakes top 4 placings in the example above he would get

[3 / 4 ] x 3 points = 2.25

if you apply this system to the example above, the results are:

Yoshi: 5 points
Snake: 3.75 points

This way you can compare characters with other characters instead of just a list of tournament placings.

NOTE:

I don't expect you to actually implement what I have said. This is just to show people that this list isn't a very accurate way of comparing characters to each other.

I don't think that it was ever claimed that that was the purpose of this thread, but it is inevitable that people will assume that this is a tier list of sorts and base their decision to main a character on information contained in this thread.

Hopefully people will read this and give this thread more thought. Than "Oh Snake is at the top he is the best I will play him."

 

[Zankoku]

I appreciate the input, however the suggestion as you gave is still not a particularly effective idea. Yes, it will provide some balance in the off chance that a Yoshi places first in a field of Snakes, but what if Snake composed the entire top eight? Snake x5 + 3 Snake x3 + 4 Snake = 18 / 8 = 2.25 points. Snake won the tournament, and all the people who placed were playing Snake, so consequently he gets fewer points? Not to mention it'd be a ***** to enter in all these decimal numbers manually.

 

[rabbt]

Oil Panic is not a projectile, but he does have bacon. And what's this about camping makes top tier? G&W is a very aggressive character, and MK is as well.

And the way he's made the list works fine. No johns. Just because you love Yoshi doesn't mean he should be top tier. There shouldn't be a handicap at all.

 

[Scrubs]

I appreciate the input, however the suggestion as you gave is still not a particularly effective idea. Yes, it will provide some balance in the off chance that a Yoshi places first in a field of Snakes, but what if Snake composed the entire top eight? Snake x5 + 3 Snake x3 + 4 Snake = 18 / 8 = 2.25 points. Snake won the tournament, and all the people who placed were playing Snake, so consequently he gets fewer points? Not to mention it'd be a ***** to enter in all these decimal numbers manually.

You haven't understood my post at all.

My method works no matter what the placings are. I just used the Yoshi example because it makes the discrepancies in your method easy to see.It scales the points to the amount of characters so that the results aren't skewed by numbers.

The example I gave was the most extreme situation possible intended to highlight the fact that because you arbitrarily assigned points to a position and that you don't take into account how many characters of a certain type there were you will get skewed results.

Back to my example.

1st: Yoshi
2nd.....8th: Snake

Your system:

Snake: 13 points
Yoshi: 5 points

Using your system even though the Yoshi won the tournament the Snakes would receive more of a reward because there were more of them.

So essentially even though winning is the most important thing. Snake seems like a better character because of the amount of snakes there were.

This makes your system useless when comparing characters with one another.

In regards to the entire top 8 being Snake:

(5 / 1) x 1 ----1st place

(3 / 4) x 3 ----2nd, 3rd, 4th

(1 / 8) x 4 ----5th, 6th, 7th, 8th

= 7.75 points

That said.

The reason I made the post was so that people will see that your list is not effective when comparing characters with one another.

It is fine for keeping a tally of tournament placings but it lacks real meaning.

I never said that you should adopt this version of the list. It would be too hard.

I encourage people to not take the current list too seriously.



Lol Rabbt I don't love Yoshi it was an example. The fact that you used 'tier' when describing this list means that you are already a lost cause.

 

[Zankoku]

...That idea still doesn't appeal to me, even if I decided to put in the extra effort of simple arithmetic.

If two Snakes and a Pikachu placed top4, should Pikachu really get as much credit as Snake? He must be more popular for a reason. If some guy happened to be an amazing... oh, let's say Ganondorf player... and managed to cut through the brackets and end with "Ganondorf MK MK Snake ROB MK G&W Snake," should MK really get less credit? There's no doubt about the Ganondorf player being very good, but should the points be altered and made to assume that it was not the player, but rather the character that drove him to take first over a bunch of Snakes and MKs?

I've played around with the idea of entering in points based on the entire pool of results, but not only do people not keep track of character mains past the top eight most of the time, but also the top ranks would begin to heavily favor characters played by a single person... ROB in the places Overswarm goes to; Pikachu with Anther being one of possibly four people playing Pika in the first place; Snake in New England because Cort's trying to make everyone there main Snake. The rankings list would stop favoring characters based on popularity, yes, but it would then start favoring characters based on what the consistent top placers (Cort, M2K, Overswarm, etc.) ended up sticking with.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

Combo Breaker Tournament
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=168405

1: GK - Pit/Shiek
2: J.L - Wario
3: Runawayfire - Metaknight
4: MDK - Metaknight
5: Chaotic - PTrainer/Snake
5: Ambrose - IC's
7: Drix - Not sure..
7: Kjdjy - Bowser/Wolf

How do you handle multiple character usage? I dont recall reading anything about it, but i haven't read this thread in a while. The players with multiple characters used each of them equally and that is why I included it.

 

[Facet]

Instead of trying to smush all the data together with any kind of arbitrary point system, it would be better to just rely on the hard data and let people draw their own conclusions: the seperate charts for # of wins, top4s, top8s, etc. Another useful stat would be # of appearances, though that would be hard to keep track of.

 

[Scrubs]

...That idea still doesn't appeal to me, even if I decided to put in the extra effort of simple arithmetic.

If two Snakes and a Pikachu placed top4, should Pikachu really get as much credit as Snake? He must be more popular for a reason. If some guy happened to be an amazing... oh, let's say Ganondorf player... and managed to cut through the brackets and end with "Wario MK MK Snake ROB MK G&W Snake," should MK really get less credit? There's no doubt about the Wario player being very good, but should the points be altered and made to assume that it was not the player, but rather the character that drove him to take first over a bunch of Snakes and MKs?.

If the placing were like this

1st: Doesn't matter
2nd: Snake
3rd: Snake
4th: Pikachu

The points would work out like this.

For Snake:

(3/4) x 2 = 1.5 points

Pikachu:

(3/4) x 1 = .75 points

So yes, Snake would be rewarded for having more placings in the top 8 than pikachu. However Snake would never receive as many points as the character that placed 1st.

Snake in New England because Cort's trying to make everyone there main Snake. The rankings list would stop favoring characters based on popularity, yes, but it would then start favoring characters based on what the consistent top placers (Cort, M2K, Overswarm, etc.) ended up sticking with.

You have brought up the exact thing that my version stops. But your list promotes.

My version scales the points based on how many characters there are of one type. So Anthers 1 Pikachu win is justly rewarded instead of that win not meaning much because of the amount of Snakes, Metas, Robs that placed beneath him.

A system like BOTH yours and mine will never be truly accurate.

The only way to attain that would be to record every placing a character obtains and find the mean placing for that character then compare that with the means of other characters.

I am not attacking your list, I like it. It is very interesting. Nor do I expect you to adopt my version.

However I am just putting it in perspective so that people don't take this as a tier list or assume that such and such a character is the best because of this list.

 

[Zankoku]

How do you handle multiple character usage? I dont recall reading anything about it, but i haven't read this thread in a while. The players with multiple characters used each of them equally and that is why I included it.

If multiple characters are listed, I just add a point for all of them in that category.

 

[Steeler]

Lack of Pokemon Trainer love is saddening, but understandable.

 

[Tien2500]

Interesting topic. *Gives TC a cookie.*

 

[choknater]

Local Modesto tournament.

(Note: No Snakes or Metaknights, entered, haha. Hence the very, VERY diverse placings.)

1: NWA (Wario/Ness)
2: Choknater (Sheik/Ice Climbers/DDD)
3: HomeMadeWaffles (Luigi/Marth)
4: KOF (ZSS/Zelda)
5: Zoap (ROB)
5: **** (DDD)

Sorry there's so many slashes but the players really did use the characters equally, haha.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152705&page=20

 

[Grandeza]

Where's the Diddy Kong users at? So underrated....

 

[Aggression]

Yes, Aggression, I'm such a jerk for removing your statement saying that you're better than every competitive smasher in the world, and that everyone must suck in comparison to you. I'm such a jerk for not even giving you points for saying something such an incredibly obvious troll post.

Hm... Aggression, given your name, I'd either assume you're a very angry person or your account was made for the sole purpose of making people mad.

thats just my brawl/melee name
it doesnt mean im angry it just means i rush at people in my games, like i aggressively never stop attacking (pressuring them so to speak)

and yeah i never said i was the best, but for some reason i never seem to lose with whoever i play, im just saying tiers might not matter to me because im just THAT GOOD (not trolling)

my name is also my name in game, and as it records all my wins losses, ive beaten like 100+ people on smash board rankings, a lot of them are in the top 50 out of 2000, some of them are actual pros in the smash world

i have like a 96% win rate in ranked matches, and i have played melee pros from time to time, i have about a 60% win with them

i cant exactly say im a pushover, so that MIGHT be why i cant see tiers, because i never seem to lose all that much...

no offense panda im sure you're hella good, sorry didnt mean to troll, i was out of line as you said my bad

Where's the Diddy Kong users at? So underrated....

hi grandeza

 

[Aggression]

ok it made me double post for some reason