Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[napZzz]

Doesn't sonic rely on hitting someone once or twice then stalling as much as possible and making them come to you.

how is that complicated.

 

[o-Serin-o]

*Hit them with something -> Run away*

Really smart thinking isn't it Serin

Lol you gotta be pro to camp with no items.
...
Oh wait there's MK...

Well you gotta be smart to...
Oh wait there's Wario...

Well you GOTTA be smart to hit someone and run away for 7mins with no kind of reliable air game to run away with.

There. Now that's Sonic.

 

[Browny]

Lolz @ Sonic mains making their character seem much more complicated then he actually is.

If Sonic isnt complicated (going by brawl standards here), who is? Where does he lie on the spectrum, and dont tell me wolf is high up or something lol

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Atomsk is good at this game. Character has nothing to do with it. Even if Sonic was the most complicated character Atomsk can still pick him up.

 

[Atomsk_92]

If Sonic isnt complicated (going by brawl standards here), who is? Where does he lie on the spectrum, and dont tell me wolf is high up or something lol

Characters like Marth, Fox, Mario, Link, Samus. They require the most effort to win with. Marth by far. Sonic is mid level, along with Wolf if he uses all the tools he has like the fake glide toss thing, scaring, light stepping.

 

[V]

Characters like Marth, Fox, Mario, Link, Samus. They require the most effort to win with. Marth by far. Sonic is mid level, along with Wolf if he uses all the tools he has like the fake glide toss thing, scaring, light stepping.

I just had somebody in the "Predictions for tier list 4" thread tell me Marth was easy to pick up

"I can tip a fair, therefore Marth is easy to use"

I bet that's the mentality many people who try out Marth have. But he requires a lot of finesse and precision to play well. He doesn't have a huge margin for error. Not even a slight margin for error.

And with this in mind Marth is ranked #4 from tourney results. Top/high level Marth's are kicking *** in tourneys.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

For a character like sonic, it takes at least 3 months to be good enough to beat anybody on a competitive level. The fact that you just assume you can do it so easily highly offensive.

Umm HUH?? I beat ranked players at my first and second tournaments. My second event gave way to the Bear Mountain Inui johns. It certainly didn't take me 3 months.

 

[Browny]

I bet that's the mentality many people who try out Marth have. But he requires a lot of finesse and precision to play well. He doesn't have a huge margin for error. Not even a slight margin for error.

I was looking for a hitbox picture of fair where i could draw a big red line saying <------------> margin for error across his sword, but no such pictures exist I dont doubt the finesse part and margin for error though, given lag on missed attacks etc.

However I think people majorly ovverate his need for precision. Out of all of his most common moves, which ones require precise spacing at all to be effective? d/utilt, db, upb n/u/fair dont really need to be tipped at all to outrange the majority of attacks in the game. precision only really matters when going for the KO at early %'s.... at mid-high %'s plenty of his attacks will KO non tippered anyway :/

 

[V]

I was looking for a hitbox picture of fair where i could draw a big red line saying <------------> margin for error across his sword, but no such pictures exist I dont doubt the finesse part and margin for error though, given lag on missed attacks etc.

However I think people majorly ovverate his need for precision. Out of all of his most common moves, which ones require precise spacing at all to be effective? d/utilt, db, upb n/u/fair dont really need to be tipped at all to outrange the majority of attacks in the game. precision only really matters when going for the KO at early %'s.... at mid-high %'s plenty of his attacks will KO non tippered anyway :/

Precision becomes much more important against characters with rivaling range. (MK, Snake, DK, ROB, DDD, etc.) You MUST tip with his better spacing moves against these characters in order to compete.

Against low tiers for the most part, he doesn't require too much precision, but you still don't have much room for error anyway. If you space poorly against a Bowser he can do some nasty things to you for example. It's always advised to hit with the tip against any character at any time. Now granted, it's impossible to tip all of his moves 100% of the time, but you have to space as best as you can. This is why it's easier to play with a defensive playstyle rather than offensive with Marth; his moves are easier to space correctly when played defensively. That's why everybody has high respect for NEO, because he plays pretty aggressively and still has amazing spacing. MUs where Marth has to approach are where it gets tricky for him, like Snake and ROB for example.

But you don't see nearly as many low tier characters in tourney as you do high tier, so in general it's said Marth requires a lot of precision because you need it for top/high tier characters and anybody with a decent amount of skill, no matter what tier their character resides in.

 

[Espy Rose]

Precision becomes much more important against characters with rivaling range. (MK, Snake, DK, ROB, DDD, etc.) You MUST tip with his better spacing moves against these characters in order to compete.

Against low tiers for the most part, he doesn't require too much precision, but you still don't have much room for error anyway. If you space poorly against a Bowser he can do some nasty things to you for example. It's always advised to hit with the tip against any character at any time. Now granted, it's impossible to tip all of his moves 100% of the time, but you have to space as best as you can. This is why it's easier to play with a defensive playstyle rather than offensive with Marth; his moves are easier to space correctly when played defensively. That's why everybody has high respect for NEO, because he plays pretty aggressively and still has amazing spacing. MUs where Marth has to approach are where it gets tricky for him, like Snake and ROB for example.

But you don't see nearly as many low tier characters in tourney as you do high tier, so in general it's said Marth requires a lot of precision because you need it for top/high tier characters and anybody with a decent amount of skill, no matter what tier their character resides in.

Isn't the "space properly" thing you're throwing out for Marth valid for every and any character?

Spacing with Marth is no more or less important than spacing with someone like Snake, or anyone on the cast.

Space properly = profit
Space improperly = get wrecked.

 

[V]

Isn't the "space properly" thing you're throwing out for Marth valid for every and any character?

Spacing with Marth is no more or less important than spacing with someone like Snake, or anyone on the cast.

Space properly = profit
Space improperly = get wrecked.

Very true. I was just replying to DJBrowny on why precision is important with Marth no matter what.

I don't think there's a character in the game that doesn't rely on good spacing.

Smash = Spacing

 

[Browny]

well yeah thats a given, but hardly any characters have the range and speed of marth, yet they manage just fine. I think precision with marth is no more important than with any other characters unless you are trying to KO with an fsmash, bair, dair or uair. everyone has to be precise, the only time marth really gets in trouble for not being precise is using fsmash at close range, the rest of his stuff is so safe, he can get away without needing to be precise at all, A LOT more so than the majority of the cast imo :/

 

[Sharky]

lol at people thinking marth needs the most precision when most of the cast has less range than him to begin with. >_>

 

[V]

well yeah thats a given, but hardly any characters have the range and speed of marth, yet they manage just fine. I think precision with marth is no more important than with any other characters unless you are trying to KO with an fsmash, bair, dair or uair. everyone has to be precise, the only time marth really gets in trouble for not being precise is using fsmash at close range, the rest of his stuff is so safe, he can get away without needing to be precise at all, A LOT more so than the majority of the cast imo :/

His Fair and D-tilt perfectly spaced are ridiculously safe, but a couple characters can punish him well if he doesn't hit with the tip. Most notably King Dedede, Donkey Kong, and ROB because of DDD's grab range and the other two's tilts range rival Marth's range.

 

[Kinzer]

The discussion here intrigues me. Both people who sport mid-low tiers, and about the spacing. I just want to say two things though.

It's one thing for a character to be simple to pick up, but an entirely different ballpark to WIN with them.

AND~

Whoever suggests Sonic camp doesn't know what a projectile/percent lead is.

 

[itsbillyc]

Anybody else think Olimar is too good? I just tried bowser challenge with all my best characters and lost... Then I use Olimar for the first time!!!! I NEVER use him... I won... first try... O.O
Everytime i fight an olimar online I get owned and it is annoying. I hate him! D:<

 

[Espy Rose]

You gotta ignore them when it comes to how to play Sonic, Kinzer.
You can't win by running away with him. Sonic has terrible defensive options.

 

[Atomsk_92]

I'm sorry but I have prolly the 2nd best Sonic Kai in my state, and I have Malcolm...Nothing you say compares to what I have seen. You win by running away.

 

[Espy Rose]

No. You don't.
And Malcolm doesn't even play Sonic anymore.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Well ****...Malcolm and Kai...The 2 BEST placing Sonics there are/(were given Malcolm quit him) besides shugo obviously don't mean ****...Good Job.

 

[fromundaman]

Characters like Marth, Fox, Mario, Link, Samus. They require the most effort to win with. Marth by far. Sonic is mid level, along with Wolf if he uses all the tools he has like the fake glide toss thing, scaring, light stepping.

I agree with a lot of those, like Mario, Link, Samus, and to a certain extent, Fox, but I don't know how Marth fits in, as many have said already. I mean, I know he's not the easiest to play effectively, despite what some seem to think, but well, how is he harder to pick up and win with than say, Ganon, Yoshi, Peach, etc.?

 

[Atomsk_92]

TOP Marth vs TOP MK, DIDDY, FALCO, SNAKE. That requires effort to win with. A LOT.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well ****...Malcolm and Kai...The 2 BEST placing Sonics there are/(were given Malcolm quit him) besides shugo obviously don't mean ****...Good Job.

I understand what they did/are doing.

They're not running away. And if they ARE, then your just playing the match up incorrectly (either you OR the Sonic, or even both).
Besides, Malcolm quit Sonic, and Kai is arguably the best Sonic.
Shugo is playing Falco.

TOP Anything vs TOP MK, DIDDY, FALCO, SNAKE. That requires effort to win with. A LOT.

Fixed.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I understand what they did/are doing.

They're not running away. And if they ARE, then your just playing the match up incorrectly.
Besides, Malcolm quit Sonic, and Kai is only arguably the best Sonic.
Shugo is playing Falco.



Fixed.

Umm, I hate character rivalry tbh, but I do place with Sonic and beat more notable players than any of the Sonic mains I've seen other than Malcolm, however I'm not spying on your results. I dont care who is the best tbh...I just ask that you don't discredit me in the process of your discussion.

Edt: I don't visit the sonic boards for JUST this reason.

 

[Espy Rose]

Umm, I hate character rivalry tbh, but I do place with Sonic and beat more notable players than any of the Sonic mains I've seen other than Malcolm, however I'm not spying on your results. I dont care who is the best tbh...I just ask that you don't discredit me in the process of your discussion.

Don't get me wrong, character rivalry means nothing to me either.

You do place better than all the other Sonics at current, so I'll definitely give you that. If anything, you can be the "best" if being the best focuses only on results, of course.

And I didn't discredit you intentionally. In fact, I said you were arguably the best Sonic, not the second best like Atomsk stated.

Besides, this isn't even the point of discussion. Atomsk is just being stupid about Sonic, and I'm trying to fix that.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Every Sonic I've fought. Kai, Malcolm, Shadofiend, Blue, Speed, Shugo. Did much better running....In fact they did worse approaching me.

There's nothing stupid about that.

 

[Espy Rose]

Wait, running and playing defensively are the same thing?

Funny that.

I don't visit the sonic boards for JUST this reason

What?

I don't ever remember the Sonic boards EVER getting into a fuss over this "character rivalry".

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Don't get me wrong, character rivalry means nothing to me either.

You do place better than all the other Sonics at current, so I'll definitely give you that. If anything, you can be the "best" if being the best focuses only on results, of course.

And I didn't discredit you intentionally. In fact, I said you were arguably the best Sonic, not the second best like Atomsk stated.

Besides, this isn't even the point of discussion. Atomsk is just being stupid about Sonic, and I'm trying to fix that.

I didn't mean to imply that you did discredit me. It happens in these types of discussions and I was asking you not to before it did. I don't want to have to visit this thread over and over. I never would have had I not be linked.


I don't think Atomsk is being dumb about Sonic though. He takes some time but hes not unlearnable and Atomsk is a smart player to put it simply. He'd be one of the few to pick him up even if his learning curve was incredibly difficult. I dont think it is though tbh


No, I visited the boards 5 times from when I started brawl. Everytime it's just randoms hyping up their character. A very boring read imo

 

[Espy Rose]

I didn't mean to imply that you did discredit me. It happens in these types of discussions and I was asking you not to before it did. I don't want to have to visit this thread over and over. I never would have had I not be linked.

Fair enough, and that's understandable.

I don't think Atomsk is being dumb about Sonic though. He takes some time but hes not unlearn able and Atomsk is a smart player to put it simply. He'd be one of the few to pick him up even if his learning curve was incredibly difficult. I dont think it is though tbh

Wait...are we even talking about the same thing?

And if Atomsk is as smart as you make him out to be, then he'd stay as far away as possible.
Which he's doing, so good for him.

And Sonic doesn't have a difficult learning curve at all. He's just trash.

No, I visited the boards 5 times from when I started brawl. Everytime it's just randoms hyping up their character. A very boring read imo

Sounds like every board to me, honestly.

And even so, you made the mistake of basing board activity off of the randoms. Now it's just the regulars that visit: Speed, KID, Camalange, Kinzer, Jaybee (Kojin), sometimes Malcolm will swing by, Shadofiend, ithrowthings, and several others.

Hard to get much done on low tier garbage, but it's mostly focused on his character properties and whatnot, and has been for quite some time.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Fair enough, and that's understandable.



Wait...are we even talking about the same thing?

And if Atomsk is as smart as you make him out to be, then he'd stay as far away as possible.
Which he's doing, so good for him.

And Sonic doesn't have a difficult learning curve at all. He's just trash.

I was linked. I didn't read everything. Just the stuff with my name in it. I was arguing that Sonic's learning curve is not THAT difficult and that Atomsk could pick him up either way.

Kid made a comment about Atomsk sounding insulting by saying he could easily pick up sonic. I say he can. I dont think picking him up as backup is bad. He destroys DK, and does well with MK. Considering our area has some of the best dk's and is infested with MK's I dont think its too bad a decision

 

[Espy Rose]

I was linked. I didn't read everything. Just the stuff with my name in it. I was arguing that Sonic's learning curve is not THAT difficult and that Atomsk could pick him up either way.

Kid made a comment about Atomsk sounding insulting by saying he could easily pick up sonic. I say he can. I dont think picking him up as backup is bad. He destroys DK, and does well with MK. Considering our area has some of the best dk's and is infested with MK's I dont think its too bad a decision

1) That's just KID being KID. Ignore it.
2) Atomsk could, but that'd be the same as slamming your face into a wall. It's stupid.
3) Sonic beats DK? I'd love to hear how you think that through PMs.
4) Even assuming Sonic does destroy Donkey Kong, there's better options. Refer to #2.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Sounds like every board to me, honestly.

And even so, you made the mistake of basing board activity off of the randoms. Now it's just the regulars that visit: Speed, KID, Camalange, Kinzer, Jaybee (Kojin), sometimes Malcolm will swing by, Shadofiend, ithrowthings, and several others.

Hard to get much done on low tier garbage, but it's mostly focused on his character properties and whatnot, and has been for quite some time.

It is, I visit no character boards.

Agreed, it's wrong for me to judge from such limited quantity, but I do it anyway(not to sound rude).

Agreed again

 

[Kaiber Kop]

3) Sonic beats DK? I'd love to hear how you think that through PMs.
#2.

I will. Feel free to hit me up on aim(setokaiba97321). I don't mind talking about it bc I strongly believe he wrecks him. I'm playing COD MW2 though so you may have to wait a bit...I've been responding on the boards when I've had the chance.

Double post my bad

 

[Espy Rose]

I will. Feel free to hit me up on aim(setokaiba97321). I don't mind talking about it bc I strongly believe he wrecks him. I'm playing COD MW2 though so you may have to wait a bit...I've been responding on the boards when I've had the chance.

Double post my bad

That's perfectly fine by me. If anything else, I'll discuss it at a later date as well. It's not something I need to know NOW.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

That's perfectly fine by me. If anything else, I'll discuss it at a later date as well. It's not something I need to know NOW.

Np, I added you so another time.

Oh btw.....My avi> everyone elses in here

 

[Espy Rose]

As off topic as it is, I MUST disagree.

Zangoose > Marge.

 

[fromundaman]

TOP Marth vs TOP MK, DIDDY, FALCO, SNAKE. That requires effort to win with. A LOT.

Right, but that's not the point. I just don't think it takes as much effort as TOP Ganon, Peach, Yoshi, and other such characters vs TOP MK, Diddy, Falco, Snake, and other top tiers.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Zangoose > Marge.

You obviously need to be educated on this matter....another time though.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Swinub > All.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Tigress > EVERYTHING!