Character Matchups & Strategies

[Stealth Raptor]

look up anther vids. i has a bunch of vids vs different mks. thats a good startng point.

 

[Veng]

Oo im late but.. what ever

vs. MK ~ 40:60 (MK)
vs. Snake ~ 55:45 (Pika)
vs. Falco ~ 40:60 (Falco)
vs. DDD ~ 60:40 (Pika)
vs. G&W ~ 40:60 (G&W)
vs. Marth ~ 35:65 (Marth)
vs. Diddy ~ 40:60 (Diddy)
vs. ROB ~ 40:60 (ROB)
vs. Kirby ~ 50:50
vs. DK ~ 55:45 (Pika)
vs. ZSS ~ 55:45 (Pika)
vs. Zelda ~ 45:55 (Zelda)
vs. Ness ~ 55:45 (Ness)

 

[gallax]

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of victory.

It's ok Kyosh, you win some, you lose some.

On topic: Gallax, what are you doing with the matchup numbers anyway? Just adding them to the chart?

i havent worked on any smash for the last week. sorry. but they will be visible on the first page. nuf said.

 

[KuroKitt10]

Hey, Galax. I had a bunch of free time, and I was feeling creative, so I decided to take the current matchups image and make it look a little nicer. I cleaned up some of the rough edges and gave it a cute little background image.

I decided to use just five colors for coloring the bubbles, and I split the number range into five parts and assigned a color to each range. so 8.1 - 10 is Red, 6.1 - 8.0 is Orange, 4.1 - 6 is Yellow (with 5.0 being Grey to indicate a dead even matchup), 2.1 - 4 is YellowGreen, and 0 - 1.9 is Green. I also did the scale from 0 - 10, that way 5.0 will be exactly in the middle of the range (which makes sense if the numbers are supposed to stand for relative difficulty). I'm not sure if this is the same number range that you used on your numbers, so the numbers might need changing if that's the case =/

Also, the second bubble below the numbers is where the ratio versions go. I wasn't sure on these, so I just filled in the even matchups (cuz those should be 50:50).

At any rate, I really hope that you like it! I put a lot of work in it. I just want the Pika boards to be the best they can be =)

 

[Ussi]

kitt Pikachu is definably a 6.0 rating. Its a ditto of ultimate cuteness. Its just too much at times.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I like that, its cute ^_^.

 

[KayLo!]

Kitt, that looks really, really good. Nice job.

 

[M15t3R E]

Sorry double post somehow.

 

[M15t3R E]

Yeah, thanks Kitt. Meow.
Though, what makes you believe DDD is 55/45 Pika's advantage? Last time I checked it has been called 70/30 Pika's advantage. Also, I think the Falco match-up isn't quite that bad, closer to even. Kirby is also a bit closer to 50/50. ROB is NOT that bad for Pikachu... 60/40 ROB at the very very worst. How does Marth boast ~80/20 vs Pikachu? It's more like 65/35 Marth. Meta Knight is the same. Ness and Lucas are slightly disadvantaged vs Pikachu. Sonic is more like 55/45 Pikachu.

Those tidbits aside, it's looking good!

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, thanks Kitt. Meow.
Though, what makes you believe DDD is 55/45 Pika's advantage? Last time I checked it has been called 70/30 Pika's advantage. Also, I think the Falco match-up isn't quite that bad, closer to even. Kirby is also a bit closer to 50/50. ROB is NOT that bad for Pikachu... 60/40 ROB at the very very worst. How does Marth boast ~80/20 vs Pikachu? It's more like 65/35 Marth. Meta Knight is the same. Ness and Lucas are slightly disadvantaged vs Pikachu. Sonic is more like 55/45 Pikachu.

Those tidbits aside, it's looking good!

Uhh.... E..... the numbers are from Gallax's chart on the front page, lol. They're not matchup numbers; they're "relative difficulty" numbers. The only matchup numbers Kitt included were the 50:50s.

Also, DDD is 60:40 in Pika's favor, not 70:30. Lol.

 

[M15t3R E]

Uhh.... E..... the numbers are from Gallax's chart on the front page, lol. They're not matchup numbers; they're "relative difficulty" numbers. The only matchup numbers Kitt included were the 50:50s.

Also, DDD is 60:40 in Pika's favor, not 70:30. Lol.

The hell is a "relative difficulty" number? In any case, why would such a thing be necessary? Match-up numbers are what matter. By the way, we've been calling DDD 70/30 Pikachu since before you joined the Pika board.
Galax really needs to change some of his numbers. Well, I really do like the background Kitt brought to us. Thanks Kitt! Meow!

 

[KayLo!]

The hell is a "relative difficulty" number? In any case, why would such a thing be necessary? Match-up numbers are what matter. By the way, we've been calling DDD 70/30 Pikachu since before you joined the Pika board.
Galax really needs to change some of his numbers. Well, I really do like the background Kitt brought to us. Thanks Kitt! Meow!

You clearly haven't been keeping up with this thread..... there was an entire debate on Gallax's new numbering system vs. matchup numbers if you go back some pages. Also, matchup numbers are nice and all, but they're not the be-all, end-all of a matchup..... overall knowledge and experience are more important. In any case, both numbering systems have their pros and cons.

I'm glad "you guys" have seniority to back you up (seriously, "since before you joined the Pika board"? Didn't take you for a date-joined wh0re, E.....), but I still disagree with Pika vs. DDD being 70:30. 65:35 is the highest ratio I'd agree with..... but like I said, it's pretty silly to argue over the numbers. Also, I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, that's just my opinion.

Gallax is considering changing some of his numbers, but if you didn't contribute earlier, he's said that he won't take your input. Um. Don't know what to tell you about that.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

E, she is right. We think its 60-40, MAYBE 65-35. Complaining about the numbers on the chart is sooo 2 months ago lol.

 

[M15t3R E]

First of all, we have said it is 70/30 in the past. And the DDD board states 65/35 Pikachu.
I remember hearing something about such a debate. Mostly between Galax and Stealth.
So why is Galax giving us "relative difficulty" numbers? No other board does that, and at the least Galax should also give us the match-up numbers. Definitely should not omit that.
Galax if you're reading this, I wanna speak with you. <__<

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

E, listen. Do you think playing every character pikachu has a 60-40 advantage against is the exact same difficulty to play? No, its not. We used the other numbers so that we could show how easy certain matchups are. Even if 2 matchup ratios are the same, their difficulty in fighting could be different.

 

[M15t3R E]

Thanks ESAM. I already figured that out. If you were to read my last post more clearly, you'd understand that all I'm saying is that we should NOT OMIT MATCH-UP NUMBERS. Not saying we should get rid of this "relative difficulty" stuff, but we need match-up numbers as well. I sincerely hope everyone can agree with that.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

We don't HAVE all the match-up numbers, that is the thing. Once we do all the MU, we can update it with both.

 

[M15t3R E]

We don't HAVE all the match-up numbers, that is the thing. Once we do all the MU, we can update it with both.

So am I to understand that it's some sort of sin to list the match-up numbers we currently have even if we don't have them for every last character at the moment?

 

[KuroKitt10]

So am I to understand that it's some sort of sin to list the match-up numbers we currently have even if we don't have them for every last character at the moment?

Mostly I just didn't include matchup ratios because I didn't know them, and they weren't listed in Galax's image.

Also, I know that at least one other character board uses a difficulty scale - the Ice Climbers boards do this. The best way to think of the number scale is just like a spectrum of difficulty, where 0 means this matchup is the easiest character pikachu will ever fight, and 10 meaning that this is the hardest character pikachu will ever fight. A 5.0 then is directly in the middle meaning that the matchup is entirely based on player skill and knowledge (like a mirror match would be).

So, in a way, I suppose that it's kind of like having a "difficulty teir". Where "top teir" characters are harder to face, and "low teir" characters are easier to face. The numbers just represent the relative placement on that difficulty teir.

As Kaylo said, both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. I put two bubbles so that both numbers could be displayed.

Mew =3

 

[KayLo!]

So am I to understand that it's some sort of sin to list the match-up numbers we currently have even if we don't have them for every last character at the moment?

That's why Gallax had us post with our opinions on Pika's matchup numbers a few pages ago.... you should really go back and read before you argue about this, lol.

He's already planning on putting up MU numbers beside the new ones, but we all have to somewhat agree on the MU numbers first. A lot of them were outdated.

 

[M15t3R E]

Okay okay, I'm not saying a relative difficulty scale is a bad idea, but in my opinion Galax should let us view the current match-up numbers as they are now, even if they're outdated. The match-up numbers for most character boards are outdated as well.

 

[Ussi]

Mister E I had this discussion the moment this chart came out. Don't start it again :\. I suggested in the end we have both charts like you are now. So someone should make the other chart.

I personally think DDD is 60:40 since DDD has an annoying disjointed hammer and a 16% bthrow...

 

[M15t3R E]

So, why don't we have the match-up numbers chart up as well then?
What possible reason could Galax have for depriving our board of a match-up numbers chart? It's something every board needs.

GALAX!!!! COME HITHER!!!!

 

[KayLo!]

So, why don't we have the match-up numbers chart up as well then?
What possible reason could Galax have for depriving our board of a match-up numbers chart? It's something every board needs.

GALAX!!!! COME HITHER!!!!

Like I've said, Gallax fully intends to put up MU numbers, but we need to agree on what they are first. Brawl's metagame has evolved, and many of the numbers we currently have are old.

This is why Gallax asked us, several pages ago, to post our opinions on MU numbers we thought we knew. When he gets to it, I'm sure he'll look at what everyone has posted and come up with ratios that reflect what the community thinks as a whole. At that point, he'll put them in the chart, and we can debate on any that don't seem right.

Okay okay, I'm not saying a relative difficulty scale is a bad idea, but in my opinion Galax should let us view the current match-up numbers as they are now, even if they're outdated. The match-up numbers for most character boards are outdated as well.

Why would we put up outdated numbers just for the sake of having them, especially when we have the other numbering system in the meantime? That would only confuse new Pikas.

We've been through this already. You're late. I'm sure Gallax will get to it when he can..... he's probably busy with school. Since none of the rest of us can edit the OP, we're going to have to wait no matter what, so there's no use in complaining about it.

 

[M15t3R E]

Kaylo, why shouldn't we have our "outdated" match-up numbers up for display? Pretty much every board has outdated numbers but they are fine because most of them are still accurate. Same with our numbers. Most of them are still accurate, even if outdated.

im going to make another chart too so that it will contain matchup ratios. that way mostly everyone can be satisfied.

i will work on the matchup chart here in a bit that will explain it and then create a new one in the form XX:XX so that people will be able to look at a more popular form[/I].

i was also thinking that i am going to put up the ratio number myself and everyone can just hack at them if they disagree. will do this later tonight if everyone likes it.

There are even more posts that indicate Galax wants to put up the match-up ratios. Good. What's the problem then? Well, these posts are all almost a month old. Seriously, there's no excuse for this long wait to see our match-up chart. At this point, I'm wondering if Galax just forgot about posting the match-up chart altogether...

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Key word WILL, he isn't going to do it yet, he is going to do it when he feels ready. There is no point in complaining about it now since he isn't even active at the moment.

 

[M15t3R E]

And with that attitude, ESAM, we'll never see our match-up ratios posted up. We need to push him to complete something he said he'd take care of over a month ago. Because who knows, he may have forgotten about it completely.

 

[Ussi]

We could always get someone else to do it.. we don't have to remain dependent on him for match up knowledge. Its just no one is taking a stand to do it. (and gallax has the first post >_>) ESAM did once but then gallax came back for a while.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

The main reason i stopped is because writing those things are a pain in the ***. Don't push gallax too much, you have NO IDEA how hard it is to write. Even with the DDD MU where i know everything there is to know, it still took me at least 2.5 hours to write.

 

[Ussi]

hmm Then I will take the challenge and do one myself. We haven't done DK here haven't we? Although the DK boards discussed us just now, ESAM and I were the ones who discussed the match up with the DKs. I believe I could write a match up analysis on that.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Uh...I think we were doing it, i remember ripple saying something in our thread. Ill edit with the conformation or non-conformation.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218987

you can take some info from there, but he technically didn't write it yet.

 

[gallax]

ok. wow. E...you really need to calm down. Do you go to college? anyone here who goes to college will understand that when the work gets tough, you need to study and do hw in your free time. i havent even been able to go to the chat room and talk for more than like 5 minutes cuz ive been so slammed.

TO E:

you want this thing so badly, then the first thing is calm down. I am a reasonable person. I will post this thing. If you want to complain though I specifically said that you NEED to post your matchups ratios and and then you can react to whatever it is that I do. But, you DIDNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now i did say that i was thinking about posting the ratios myself. the key word was thinking. i was looking for feedback as to what people thought about that idea. so here is what i am going to do. I am going to be on the boards for the most of the day. if you want to input matchups, then give me your list of ratios. as for me, i am still writing the zelda matchup which is so far awesome, the defensive section(which i admit i have been slack on more than anyone and I AM TRULY SORRY KLO [not sarcastic]), and i have had three tests and 4 quizzes the past week.

To KITT:

thanks man. that is an awesome chart. i was trying to do something wiht the one i had but everything i did made it look tacky. this is awesome. would you mind if i sent you the completed ratios and you just added them into the pic? i have no problem taking the new one and doing it but its obvious that your skills far transcend mine.

To esam:

You are the man

To KLO:

You are the woman. And i will get something to you as requested.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

No problem gallax, anything to help a veteran god of pika knowledge.

 

[gallax]

yeah well i will bow down to your matchups skillz+ knowledge any day.

and i have a questions for you esam. when you are fighting your bros zelda, what do you do to approach since attacking selda from above is almost useless due to her usmash and utilt?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Normally ill send off a T-jolt, shield his fire (Since they always use one) then Use another one. Most of them will reflect it which gives you time to run up and grab...i think. Kaylo plays zelda so you should ask her.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

kaylo is why he is asking.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Oh, ****. I don't remember how i approach.

 

[gallax]

stealth is right. klo has a zelda who kills my approach.

 

[KuroKitt10]

[snip]
To KITT:

thanks man. that is an awesome chart. i was trying to do something wiht the one i had but everything i did made it look tacky. this is awesome. would you mind if i sent you the completed ratios and you just added them into the pic? i have no problem taking the new one and doing it but its obvious that your skills far transcend mine.
[snip]

Of course I wouldn't mind!

I've actually got another really cool idea for it as well. There's a way we can make it so that if you click on, say, the MetaKnight picture, it will link you to the MetaKnight matchup thread. I need to re size the image a bit to make this work, but I think that it will really clean up the main post =)

I'm just glad I could help out the Pika boards ^^

Meow!

 

[gallax]

i was wondering if we could do that. i posted that idea like a million posts back but no one knew how to do it. If you are able to, you are the man forever.