Character Matchup Help (COME HERE FOR ALL MATCHUP QUESTIONS)

[Terranrox]

Since this thread seems to be the close to the center of matchup relatedthreads I would like to create the reader's pole of who they think is MK's most difficult matchup in this format:

1. Hardest
2. Second Hardest
3. Third Hardest

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

marth isn't a good match up for mk, that fight isn't a winning fight cuz of the gay tornado, countering it is gay because it does minimal damage and they can wait out your counter...i'll try playing a campy marth and i'll see what happens

 

[Terranrox]

marth isn't a good match up for mk, that fight isn't a winning fight cuz of the gay tornado, countering it is gay because it does minimal damage and they can wait out your counter...i'll try playing a campy marth and i'll see what happens

Yeah that is true and its pretty easy to make a sudden turn and move to the opposite direction when we see the guard coming

 

[Jeb]

>.>
I'm sure this was brought up a million times but I don't feel like fishing through the entire thread for this: what are good approaches against a g&w? I'm making mk my secondary just for g&w and marth.

 

[Terranrox]

G&W was a hard matchup for me at first, but he got pretty easy after I figured out how he plays. They do like their dair -> up b -> dair -> up b pressure come, but all you have to do against that is memorize the spacing and stay just outside it with a charged d smash for punishment. The turtle (his back air) MUST be shielded. Your airdodge isn't long enough, and you'll regret trying it. You can also MT it, but neither Terran or I are sure whether MT outprioritizes the turtle. Shield his dairs for a free grab as well.

Now to your problem...smashes and high priority moves? Avoiding smashes is all you can really do against them. If you're having trouble with it, it's because you're not avoiding them or not avoiding them correctly. You can shield them, you can side dodge them, you can air dodge them (not recommended), you can jump over them, you can run away from them. You can also not get hit by them (highly recommended). Part of your problem might be that you're not pushing aggressively and applying lots of pressure. If you let a G&W run free, they can control the match. But they can't do that under pressure because they need room. Don't give them that room. Move in fast, go for the grabs and aerial combos and most importantly get them off the stage. If you control the match, your chances of winning skyrocket.

Well I dug up the information we previously answered on G+W... but can you be more specific about the problem?
Approach is rather a vague word...
Is it approaching his turtle? smashes? So can you elaborate it more please

 

[Jeb]

The main problem was the turtle move. I did try to cut off space and shield them, but they seem to come out instantaneously. Would shielding + ftilt work? G&w users seem to know not to come too close or else they'll be grabbed.

 

[Terranrox]

The main problem was the turtle move. I did try to cut off space and shield them, but they seem to come out instantaneously. Would shielding + ftilt work? G&w users seem to know not to come too close or else they'll be grabbed.

That is very good observation, because your right for a good game and watch player to play well they must space very well in their attacks...

Shield and F- tilt would definitely work in this case but there are more opportunities too
(reminder keep the shield up until animation ends and stop right when G+W is going through his short but opportunity loaded aerial landing lag)

And if the scenario is if the attack comes in front of you d- tilt (It will reach if the turtle contacted your shield) now d -tilt until he/she/it trips then follow up with the f- tilt (for MK, every hit on ur opponent counts big time)

If the turtle came behind you d- smash it has longer reach from behind and will hit if the turtle contacted your shield

* when the G+W decks out his flap jacks/ sausages/ hamburgers use MT to not take any damage and charge him at the same time but try to stop before the frying pan to prevent taking damage and follow up with a f tilt or a d- smash

(For a personal favorite combo do the first one or two phases of the f- tilt and then pause a sec. and do a d smash

 

[ShaolinAce]

Good thread and alot of good info but if I can say every things bunched up on the first page. Can someone edit the topic and use some spacing? It hurts thine eyes. Sorry but I like to enjoy reading strats.

 

[Terranrox]

Good thread and alot of good info but if I can say every things bunched up on the first page. Can someone edit the topic and use some spacing? It hurts thine eyes. Sorry but I like to enjoy reading strats.

Lol well that have to wait until Zephyr comes back from his vacation...
Do you have any more suggestions to help improve this thread?

 

[Jeb]

Thanks for the help + tips ^_^

 

[Terranrox]

Thanks for the help + tips ^_^

Yeah sure and I would appreciate feed back as well... most because I'm not sure if it works out for you so if it doesn't work out I could try to find out more possible solutions..

 

[DEV64]

Nice

Nice thread lots of good info MK kicks ***!!

 

[Terranrox]

Nice thread lots of good info MK kicks ***!!

Thanks. We try our best...

 

[OverlordCrono]

I have a match up I need advice for.

1. Luigi
2. F Smash, F air, Luigi Cyclone, great recovery
3. Grabbing, F tilts

 

[Zephyr]

1. Luigi
2. F Smash, F air, Luigi Cyclone, great recovery
3. Grabbing, F tilts

I'm back! As a back-from-Alaska present, I'll be updating the front page with the new info and making it less of an eyesore for some of you. One of these days. Now, to business.

When you're having issues with his fsmash, you really need to take another look at how the game works. Shield beats attack. That means that when you don't want to get hit, you shield. Then you punish with d-smash out of shield. That's how brawl works.

Answer his fair with one of your own aerials, a mach tornado or an air dodge. It's not that big a deal. You shouldn't even be in a position to get hit by it.

Just shield the cyclone. It's easier to punish that way.

Do whatever you have to to keep him off the stage, just make sure it's not f-air. Luigis take advantage of DIing upwards from it far to easily.

It would be awesome if you gave me tactics that gave you problems instead of just attacks. That gives me a lot more to work with and makes my answers not suck like this one. =D

 

[OverlordCrono]

It would be awesome if you gave me tactics that gave you problems instead of just attacks. That gives me a lot more to work with and makes my answers not suck like this one. =D

Well, I played an aggressive offense, constantly trying to damage him with F Tilts, F Airs, grabs and such, against this really good Luigi, but every time I approached him, he'd always shield or spot-dodge and punish me with F Smash and F Air, and using the cyclone to rack up damage once I let down my guard. He was incredibly hard to predict, and even when I knocked him off the stage, he'd easily get back and punish me, despite me doing my best to edge-guard him. He even knocked me out of a Mach Tornado at one time. I usually do very well, but I honestly didn't expect Luigi to give me so much trouble.

 

[Zephyr]

Everyone has a pattern that they fall into. You just need to actively watch what he does in order to interpret his strategy and react accordingly. If he always does something, then anticipate it and punish his pattern. It looks like that's your problem, not the matchup itself.

 

[OverlordCrono]

Everyone has a pattern that they fall into. You just need to actively watch what he does in order to interpret his strategy and react accordingly. If he always does something, then anticipate it and punish his pattern. It looks like that's your problem, not the matchup itself.

I guess you're right. I'll just keep practicing and try better next time. Thanks for the tips.

If you don't mind, I have another match-up I have trouble with.

1. Olimar
2. Far reach of attacks, quickly racks up damage, hard to hit, very difficult to approach
3. Trying to approach by air and Mach Tornado but failing miserably, getting badly damaged too quickly and easily. I can easily edge-guard him well, its just actually getting him off the stage is the main problem.

 

[Zephyr]

I guess you're right. I'll just keep practicing and try better next time. Thanks for the tips.

If you don't mind, I have another match-up I have trouble with.

1. Olimar
2. Far reach of attacks, quickly racks up damage, hard to hit, very difficult to approach
3. Trying to approach by air and Mach Tornado but failing miserably, getting badly damaged too quickly and easily. I can easily edge-guard him well, its just actually getting him off the stage is the main problem.

...This matchup kind of sucks.

My only suggestion is that you do what I do. Gay your way out of his gay playstyle.

In other words, Mach Tornado. His pikmin can't penetrate it. If you want, dash in then Mach Tornado. After approaching with MT, the game shifts and becomes yours rather quickly. Dash grabbing and d-throwing seems to work well also. Just keep him in reach of your sword and don't let him get away is the point I'm trying to get across here. Also, once you get him offstage with whatever (probably d-smash), edge guard very aggressively, and once you've done all you can, edgehog. He can't do anything about it.

 

[Terranrox]

...This matchup kind of sucks.

My only suggestion is that you do what I do. Gay your way out of his gay playstyle.

In other words, Mach Tornado. His pikmin can't penetrate it. If you want, dash in then Mach Tornado. After approaching with MT, the game shifts and becomes yours rather quickly. Dash grabbing and d-throwing seems to work well also. Just keep him in reach of your sword and don't let him get away is the point I'm trying to get across here. Also, once you get him offstage with whatever (probably d-smash), edge guard very aggressively, and once you've done all you can, edgehog. He can't do anything about it.

Yeah I agree with Zephyr on this... The MT not only out prioritize this but can potentially destroy Olimar's Pikmin... Remember to keep the MT near ground level since it won't penetrate out prioritize the pikmin chain...

The hard to hit problem is easy to understand since one he is super floaty and also short... so in this case I would recommend ground combat over aerial... (if aerial they should mostly be SH'd)

And yeah edge hogging and edge guarding is the key against olimars
I would recommend you to try to get the hang of dimensional edge game for this particular match up...

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I posted this before but someone mentioned to come in here and ask. Basically, how do you edge guard DK's up B? He takes forever to kill if you're just trying to knock him off, so there's gotta be something that will beat out his up B. Any advice?

 

[OverlordCrono]

Alright, I get what you're saying. Olimar is just so annoying to face. >.< Thanks a bunch for the tips.

 

[Zephyr]

I posted this before but someone mentioned to come in here and ask. Basically, how do you edge guard DK's up B? He takes forever to kill if you're just trying to knock him off, so there's gotta be something that will beat out his up B. Any advice?

The only move that I've managed to hit him out of his up b with is mach tornado. When I manage to do that, I finish the tornado then knock him back offstage. He up b's again and I rinse and repeat till I can kill him.

Really, DK has a nearly foolproof recovery in this game, so don't be disheartened if you can't beat it out at first.

 

[Terranrox]

I posted this before but someone mentioned to come in here and ask. Basically, how do you edge guard DK's up B? He takes forever to kill if you're just trying to knock him off, so there's gotta be something that will beat out his up B. Any advice?

Yeah... If DK is close enough and not below the stage too far his up special is in fact among the few fool proof recoveries...

However the best you can do is:
1. If it seems that it will barely make it, then hedgehog
2. if DK gets off the stage, foot stool him EXTREMELY effective against a DK to stop from recovering
3. Don't try to KO him with "maybe" it will KO him attacks... It has to be for sure\
4. Even though the weight could be a problem consider the option of KOing DK from the top

 

[Zephyr]

Yeah... If DK is close enough and not below the stage too far his up special is in fact among the few fool proof recoveries...

However the best you can do is:
1. If it seems that it will barely make it, then hedgehog
2. if DK gets off the stage, foot stool him EXTREMELY effective against a DK to stop from recovering
3. Don't try to KO him with "maybe" it will KO him attacks... It has to be for sure\
4. Even though the weight could be a problem consider the option of KOing DK from the top

It's gotten really bad for me before. I had to kill him with up throw. >_>

 

[OverLade]

...This matchup kind of sucks.

My only suggestion is that you do what I do. Gay your way out of his gay playstyle.

In other words, Mach Tornado. His pikmin can't penetrate it. If you want, dash in then Mach Tornado. After approaching with MT, the game shifts and becomes yours rather quickly. Dash grabbing and d-throwing seems to work well also. Just keep him in reach of your sword and don't let him get away is the point I'm trying to get across here. Also, once you get him offstage with whatever (probably d-smash), edge guard very aggressively, and once you've done all you can, edgehog. He can't do anything about it.

I heard that Olimar can Grab MK out of Mach tornado. Is this true?

 

[ShaolinAce]

No it's not true.

 

[Terranrox]

Yeah.. It isn't the MT would eat the pikmin instead...

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Olimar CAN grab you out or tornado. That's why you do it off the ground. But yeah it definitely works, I had it happen like 6 times in one match the other day.

Tornado still beats out everything olimar has otherwise though, it's a pretty easy fight.

 

[Terranrox]

That might be true... but it hasn't happened to me before whenever that happens my MT usually eats the pikmin

 

[Zephyr]

If he headshots you with the pikmin, then yes, I could see this happening. Priority wouldn't matter since grabs have infinite priority, but if the pikmin miss you, they're done for.

Never happened to me before, though. o_0

 

[DFEAR]

when tryin to shuttle loop a Dk player into KO what is the best approach surely knowing he might Fair/Dair/SideB? Fighting Dk's are always so hard for me :\ i got used to snake techs and strats but DK god darmn hes annoyin >_>

 

[fangochango]

hi , i was wondering if someone could give some advice when trying to gimp Mr G&W i find him a very hard character to do this because of his %$#ing parachute , is the shuttle loop the only way i can do it? because everytime i try with dair i never win or is normal not being able to gimp him with dair??

 

[DFEAR]

hi , i was wondering if someone could give some advice when trying to gimp Mr G&W i find him a very hard character to do this because of his %$#ing parachute , is the shuttle loop the only way i can do it? because everytime i try with dair i never win or is normal not being able to gimp him with dair??

what i tend to do is be really aggressive towards gnw players :\ i like fair and nair alot with them and when opportunity hits shuttle loop : > but since gnw when i play against them usually make it to stage >_> i usually just dsmash or bgrab for support %'s.

 

[Terranrox]

Thats true it is difficult to chase after G+W with his parachute...
hmmm.. yeah the shuttle loop works or you can just try to score a few hits with MK's ever so quick uair

but mostly if the G+W is experienced with avoiding these attacks I suggest sticky to the ground and follow him till he land/ landing animation lag occurs and punish him there

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

My big problem with G&W is that he can KO you so early, and his turtle is constantly in the way. Not to mention he's so light tornado does virtually nothing to him.

 

[Terranrox]

Thats true but in this case I would refer to the infamous tip/ quote from PC Chris that will improve anyone's skill:
"Don't get hit"

 

[Zephyr]

Thats true but in this case I would refer to the infamous tip/ quote from PC Chris that will improve anyone's skill:
"Don't get hit"

........

Oh no. You did not just say that.

Those are the words of the great and powerful Isai, not PC Chris. XD

Learn how far G&W can go horizontally with his dair from his parachute. Wait just out side that range, then punish him.

 

[Terranrox]

........

Oh no. You did not just say that.

Those are the words of the great and powerful Isai, not PC Chris. XD

Learn how far G&W can go horizontally with his dair from his parachute. Wait just out side that range, then punish him.

Dang. I get messes up with that..
I wonder if there are any more super famous quotes like that.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I can't approach Ike...

I've been playing against some guys Ike online for a bit, its a solid connection, not so much lag. And everytime I try to approach his jab's (A,a,a) hit me. And even when I'm spacing Ike will approach me with his Side B and then he instantly uses his jab attack after side b. I cant sidestep it, with a volley of attacks like that. And when I do come at him sometimes he'll shield my attack and immediately counter with his jabs. If it wasnt for those jabs of Ike's he would be easy to beat. And I'm just wondering, which of MK's attacks comes out faster than Ike's jab. The only one I know of is MK's "A" move but I can get punished from it later. Does anyone have experience with something like this? Help. 0_o