Rejjae
Smash Apprentice
Vs Pikachu, your Uptilt goes through all his aerials, so he has to apprach from the ground.
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Character MATCH-UP and STAGE Guide *8/28/08 UPDATED*
- Thread starter SlashTalon
- Start date
Popertop
Smash Champion
I'm gonna have to debate the Wario matchup.
Even though you can camp him and get the chaingrab to 50%, I don't think Falco has advantage.
What Wario Has:
About the Lazors: Wario can SHAD through your lazers, no matter how you time them, and then he can DJ and AD through anything else you throw at him and go straight into a Fsmash on the ground with very litttle/no lag. His airdodge is probably the best one in the game. If you try and lazor side-b camp, he can just keep SHAD'ing to you and put on the pressure, there's not much you can do about it. If you need to kill wario, you need to get in his face, but that's where he can punish you and tear you apart, so.... yeah. Lazors = not a big obstacle for Wario
Up close: Wario has Dair + Bite for shield pressure, and not much will beat it. Dsmash is his fastest option out of shield, expect to be caught by it occasionally. It will catch a spot dodge, and the Dsmash has a nice angle at higher percents to set up a gimp/edgeguard. Fsmash is amazing and will catch you with its super armor, and boost smash is good too. Dair > Bite > Boost is bread and butter for most Warios, learn to DI this, although it's still a guessing game/ mixup and you can still get hit with nasty stuff like the clap if you DI to avoid the boost. Watch out for that. Fart kills way early when it's charged enough, and is strongest just before fully charged (kills at 70 or 60 i believe), and if you make any horrendous mistakes, expect them to be punished with this. Dthrow is also a mixup game Wario has. If you make a habit of attacking him after it, expect to eat an Fsmash to the face sometime soon. If you jump over him after it, you'll get clapped. If you shield, he'll regrab. If you spot dodge, he can ftilt. If you roll, he can boost smash. Yup.
In the Air(hands off my air!): Wario's Clap is very high priority and will beat most if not all of your aerials (as well as hitting for 18% fresh and killing at around 100%). Wario's love dair, and will Dair all day. At low percents he can Dair > Dair, or Dair > Uair, or do other stuff. SH dair autocancels, and is usually followed by Bite, Fsmash, or moar Dair.
Off the stage: If you get sent high, he can follow with Jump > Bike and kill you off the top or the side. IF you get caught by this you will feel like a nub. If you're off the side low or mid, he can jump out and Fair > Nair to gimp/kill you. Nair outprioritizes your Side-B. Bite does too, but some funky stuff happens and I have to look into it more. He kinda gets hit, but you get sent down a little, so that could gimp you pretty bad if he follows you out when you're low and bites when you side-b and then edgehogs, it's something I have to look into more tho.
I'm not sure what Falco has against Wario other than the chaingrab to 50% and boost smash out of that, but I've put pretty much all I know Wario has in the matchup, so I guess you can decide for yourself if you are at disadvantage or not.
That's pretty much it, and mindgames are delicious.
Anyone wanna debate this?
Even though you can camp him and get the chaingrab to 50%, I don't think Falco has advantage.
What Wario Has:
About the Lazors: Wario can SHAD through your lazers, no matter how you time them, and then he can DJ and AD through anything else you throw at him and go straight into a Fsmash on the ground with very litttle/no lag. His airdodge is probably the best one in the game. If you try and lazor side-b camp, he can just keep SHAD'ing to you and put on the pressure, there's not much you can do about it. If you need to kill wario, you need to get in his face, but that's where he can punish you and tear you apart, so.... yeah. Lazors = not a big obstacle for Wario
Up close: Wario has Dair + Bite for shield pressure, and not much will beat it. Dsmash is his fastest option out of shield, expect to be caught by it occasionally. It will catch a spot dodge, and the Dsmash has a nice angle at higher percents to set up a gimp/edgeguard. Fsmash is amazing and will catch you with its super armor, and boost smash is good too. Dair > Bite > Boost is bread and butter for most Warios, learn to DI this, although it's still a guessing game/ mixup and you can still get hit with nasty stuff like the clap if you DI to avoid the boost. Watch out for that. Fart kills way early when it's charged enough, and is strongest just before fully charged (kills at 70 or 60 i believe), and if you make any horrendous mistakes, expect them to be punished with this. Dthrow is also a mixup game Wario has. If you make a habit of attacking him after it, expect to eat an Fsmash to the face sometime soon. If you jump over him after it, you'll get clapped. If you shield, he'll regrab. If you spot dodge, he can ftilt. If you roll, he can boost smash. Yup.
In the Air(hands off my air!): Wario's Clap is very high priority and will beat most if not all of your aerials (as well as hitting for 18% fresh and killing at around 100%). Wario's love dair, and will Dair all day. At low percents he can Dair > Dair, or Dair > Uair, or do other stuff. SH dair autocancels, and is usually followed by Bite, Fsmash, or moar Dair.
Off the stage: If you get sent high, he can follow with Jump > Bike and kill you off the top or the side. IF you get caught by this you will feel like a nub. If you're off the side low or mid, he can jump out and Fair > Nair to gimp/kill you. Nair outprioritizes your Side-B. Bite does too, but some funky stuff happens and I have to look into it more. He kinda gets hit, but you get sent down a little, so that could gimp you pretty bad if he follows you out when you're low and bites when you side-b and then edgehogs, it's something I have to look into more tho.
I'm not sure what Falco has against Wario other than the chaingrab to 50% and boost smash out of that, but I've put pretty much all I know Wario has in the matchup, so I guess you can decide for yourself if you are at disadvantage or not.
That's pretty much it, and mindgames are delicious.
Anyone wanna debate this?
DAGanmanert
Smash Apprentice
Great guide, taught me alot when I first picked up Falco...Which wasnt too long ago, I do pretty well with him now tho
Popertop
Smash Champion
bump, debate me plz 
SlashTalon
Smash Ace
I'm outta town and will be back on the 10th, I will def address the wario debate then =D
I really don't think G&W gives Falco too much trouble.
Falco can chaingrab G&W, which is always a good thing. Given the fact that G&W dies at early percents, one good grab combo can easily turn the match around. Sure, Game and Watch's Bair is annoying and out ranges all of Falcos aerials... but, what I do is actually try to get by it, almost on purpose. Why? So I can DI out and attack him while the attack is still going on. What I try to do is a falling Nair into an upsmash, jab, grab, or up tilt. I wouldn't be surprised if you can do a nair/dair into a laser lock from it. Bair is really not that good once you can effectively get out of it (same goes with Metaknight's Fair/Bair).
Oh...and make sure you kno how to tech his down throw.
The best things G&W has going for him is his redic smashes, the fact you can't really edgeguard him, and... his freaking bucket.
I see it as an almost even matchup where the winner is usually the better player or the player who has more experience in the matchup wins.
Falco can chaingrab G&W, which is always a good thing. Given the fact that G&W dies at early percents, one good grab combo can easily turn the match around. Sure, Game and Watch's Bair is annoying and out ranges all of Falcos aerials... but, what I do is actually try to get by it, almost on purpose. Why? So I can DI out and attack him while the attack is still going on. What I try to do is a falling Nair into an upsmash, jab, grab, or up tilt. I wouldn't be surprised if you can do a nair/dair into a laser lock from it. Bair is really not that good once you can effectively get out of it (same goes with Metaknight's Fair/Bair).
Oh...and make sure you kno how to tech his down throw.
The best things G&W has going for him is his redic smashes, the fact you can't really edgeguard him, and... his freaking bucket.
I see it as an almost even matchup where the winner is usually the better player or the player who has more experience in the matchup wins.
§witch
Smash Lord
But he's definitely one of falco's harder matches, there's no debating that. Yet, I agree with your post.
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
yea and i believe that game and watch can be baited to do his bair. has anybody ever thought of just getting near him, he would bair and just roll towards him that way you can not only avoid his attack but also punish his lag.
EDIT: i'm talking about rolling behind him which he can't do jack **** during his bair.
EDIT: i'm talking about rolling behind him which he can't do jack **** during his bair.
Oh yes, of course. It's just that, Falco is so amazing and doesn't have many hard matchups, hence, G&W being note worthy.
That shouldn't really work since G&Ws should DI away from the opponent when they Bair and make sure they start the Bair at a decent distance away. This move is mostly used for controlling spacing after all.
§witch
Smash Lord
Since it lasts so long they start it from far away, and as NJz said, for spacing. That's not exactly viable, sorry.
pyrnight
Smash Journeyman
I'm gonna say from my experience you are waaay off with some of those match ups.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
This was a complete and utter waste of time you suck slash!
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Lmao I'm joking dude.
I would never say something like that
So you're going with us to jubilee right?
Also keep up the good work on the falco boards
Lol are you sure falco v.s. Marth isn't 9:1 marth's favor?
Lol j/k. See ya around man
I would never say something like that
So you're going with us to jubilee right?
Also keep up the good work on the falco boards
Lol are you sure falco v.s. Marth isn't 9:1 marth's favor?
Lol j/k. See ya around man
Popertop
Smash Champion
Slash, get in here and debate the Wario matchup.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I have to disagree with the Sonic entry. Lasers do not stop him as well as it says.
The reason for this is that his spincharge goes under SDL so they aren't as effective as they usually are (though grounded lasers will work).
However if grounded lasers are used Sonic is capable of approaching aerially (he is the 6th fastest aerially) and when he spinshots, he moves through the air faster than Yoshi so he can get to Falco more quickly than other characters.
his priority is not as bad as people think.
Uair breaks Falco's Dair and Sonic's Bair can break Falco's Bair and Fair when spaced properly. Sonic's Fair is also dangerousn to Falco because the trajectory it sends Falco is more horizontal than MK's Fair.
Falco is also more susceptible to being chased by Sonic as well due to his fast fall speed. Dthrow~Dthrow/Spinchargecombo is well within capable of Sonic and a Dthrow off the stage can lead to Falco getting gimped.
Falco does have an advantage though, despite the fact that Sonic can escape after the 2throw of the CG he can still rack up damage on sonic and can still make it difficult for Sonic to approach. Falco's groundgame is also better so it can be more difficult for Sonic to get Falco into the air.
Falco is also faster in attack speed which can be difficult for Sonic to overcome.
IMO I think its not 7:3 in Falco's it would be lesser maybe 62:38.
The reason is also because of Mr 3000's wins over Sethlon in two tournaments as well as my experience and from what I have seen of other Sonic mains playing Falco.
The reason for this is that his spincharge goes under SDL so they aren't as effective as they usually are (though grounded lasers will work).
However if grounded lasers are used Sonic is capable of approaching aerially (he is the 6th fastest aerially) and when he spinshots, he moves through the air faster than Yoshi so he can get to Falco more quickly than other characters.
his priority is not as bad as people think.
Uair breaks Falco's Dair and Sonic's Bair can break Falco's Bair and Fair when spaced properly. Sonic's Fair is also dangerousn to Falco because the trajectory it sends Falco is more horizontal than MK's Fair.
Falco is also more susceptible to being chased by Sonic as well due to his fast fall speed. Dthrow~Dthrow/Spinchargecombo is well within capable of Sonic and a Dthrow off the stage can lead to Falco getting gimped.
Falco does have an advantage though, despite the fact that Sonic can escape after the 2throw of the CG he can still rack up damage on sonic and can still make it difficult for Sonic to approach. Falco's groundgame is also better so it can be more difficult for Sonic to get Falco into the air.
Falco is also faster in attack speed which can be difficult for Sonic to overcome.
IMO I think its not 7:3 in Falco's it would be lesser maybe 62:38.
The reason is also because of Mr 3000's wins over Sethlon in two tournaments as well as my experience and from what I have seen of other Sonic mains playing Falco.
Popertop
Smash Champion
okay, nvm.
I just played Sethlon's and Hylian's Falco.
yeah, big disadvantage.
winnable, but pretty hard if they know what they are doing.
I just played Sethlon's and Hylian's Falco.
yeah, big disadvantage.
winnable, but pretty hard if they know what they are doing.
SlashTalon
Smash Ace
I am officially back.
I have a lot to add to Wario, Kirby, and Zelda/Sheik.
In terms of Sonic, all I do is laser/jab. Stops EVERYTHING. I just played a good Sonic at the last C3 and besides him being able to mindgame me I do not see how that is not in Falco's advantage. Sonic cannot escape until atleast CG #4 (via UpB) if the CGs are buffered walking grabs and even then a simple Dair to regrab adds another 20+%
Honestly I think everyone (players) who has trouble with Sonic is mostly because playing one in tourney is rare and Sonic is easily underestimated at first glance. I think you're giving him too much credit.
Bottom line your laser arguement is flawed. Skilled Falcos will be doing perfect SHDLs which hit even grounded MKs, and NOone does Grounded lasers...especially against someone as fast as sonic.
I have a lot to add to Wario, Kirby, and Zelda/Sheik.
In terms of Sonic, all I do is laser/jab. Stops EVERYTHING. I just played a good Sonic at the last C3 and besides him being able to mindgame me I do not see how that is not in Falco's advantage. Sonic cannot escape until atleast CG #4 (via UpB) if the CGs are buffered walking grabs and even then a simple Dair to regrab adds another 20+%
Honestly I think everyone (players) who has trouble with Sonic is mostly because playing one in tourney is rare and Sonic is easily underestimated at first glance. I think you're giving him too much credit.
Bottom line your laser arguement is flawed. Skilled Falcos will be doing perfect SHDLs which hit even grounded MKs, and NOone does Grounded lasers...especially against someone as fast as sonic.
Yojimbo
Smash Journeyman
So still being new to Falco, I've come to ask about the Wolf match up. From everything I've read, Falco has Wolf pinned down. Evidently to Wolf players this is one of the few impossible match ups. I've never had to face a decent Wolf until yesterday, in which he had control of the majority of the match. He only had one stock to my zero, but it was still difficult. Chain grabbing did help, but could the experts of this board give me a little more insight as to how to approach?
Wish I had videos to better show my problems, but my capture card isn't here yet.
Wish I had videos to better show my problems, but my capture card isn't here yet.
Use your Shine. A LOT!. Wolf's approaches are easily destroyed by it and he can't outcamp you either. Falco's Chaingrab, Shine and Laser minimize Wolfs options to zero. Add in an occasional Spike and a lag less bair and you've won this thing already, if you know, what you're doing. Standard A combo owns him in close combat btw.
I hate fighting Falco with Wolf so much, that I started using Falco myself...
I hate fighting Falco with Wolf so much, that I started using Falco myself...
SlashTalon
Smash Ace
If you're familiar with Wolf's moveset, most his moves are quick to come out but have heavy amounts of lag after so just punish accordingly.
CG-to like 60+ > Spike > Edgehog =very dead wolf.
CG-to like 60+ > Spike > Edgehog =very dead wolf.
Yojimbo
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I usually didn';t worry about Wolf because I never faced one that didn't blaster spam into a forward smash over and over until yesterday. I'll try these tactics out next time I face him and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the input, you guys! Maybe I can record a few matches if I get my capture card this weekend.
SlashTalon
Smash Ace
Your sig is nice Yojimbo =D
Yojimbo
Smash Journeyman
Thankies, Slash. But I didn't make it; Zench got bored and made one for me since my old one was of Marth. I just sport it with pride!
Have yet to face this Wolf player, but I've been working on my biggest problem. I play a bit too aggressively with Falco and don't use his lasers enough. I'm still messing up the timing. Ugh, I need to make a trip to get a capture card tomorrow so I can better show you guys what I'm having trouble with.
Have yet to face this Wolf player, but I've been working on my biggest problem. I play a bit too aggressively with Falco and don't use his lasers enough. I'm still messing up the timing. Ugh, I need to make a trip to get a capture card tomorrow so I can better show you guys what I'm having trouble with.
SlashTalon
Smash Ace
I developed my Falco from being too aggressive and finding out what works while reading what the opponent does when you do certain things, I then worked on the Single perfect SHL, and worked that into CGs and DLXs,and then I mastered the SHDL and now I just switch between modes midfight depending on character/player/and whats working.
i saw this in youtube and pit's thread. http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=6cJ37_tuG5s
I want to try this to see if falco can be dadlier but i cant at the moment since i dont have my wii at uni atm......so ill leave it here for you to take a look if you havnt already.
I want to try this to see if falco can be dadlier but i cant at the moment since i dont have my wii at uni atm......so ill leave it here for you to take a look if you havnt already.
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
doesn't work for falco because he does not move back or forth when he spot dodges
Staz
Smash Lord
very nice thread
Gamegenie222
Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
WHY bump this?
