• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character MATCH-UP and STAGE Guide *8/28/08 UPDATED*

BEES

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
1,051
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Question that's relevent for Falco dittos and Kirby: Do any moves clang with the laser, or does it outprioritize everything?


edit: looking at the Snake grenade escape, it happens between the third and fourth grab. Just expect that and end with a shine after the 3rd grab and the grenade will give him multiplied damage, bringing him up to 50%. Which is about as good as you can get with a normal grab.

or I suppose you could throw in a dair/reverse grab
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Question that's relevent for Falco dittos and Kirby: Do any moves clang with the laser, or does it outprioritize everything?


edit: looking at the Snake grenade escape, it happens between the third and fourth grab. Just expect that and end with a shine after the 3rd grab and the grenade will give him multiplied damage, bringing him up to 50%. Which is about as good as you can get with a normal grab.

or I suppose you could throw in a dair/reverse grab
I'll check the first question.

And thanks for the second statement. Only problem is missing out on the easy spike at the end of a normal CG =(
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
I'm Re-vamping the guide making it easier to read and update it with all the new info in the thread.

Um Clowsui, what exactly of the ROB matchup is "Wrong". Thats a pretty bold word to use with no immediate explanation.
Anyway I need to update all the sections as most characters havent been updated since I made the guide back in May.
Like how Falco's nair and neutral combos are great against ROB
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
I meant in terms of percentage; it's close to 65-35 in ROB's favor.

1. Easy gimps...Fairs and Bairs are not so fun for Falco, especially when you're off the stage at higher percents (that's when ROB will usually get you off). Also lasers from ROB followed by a Fair from him will usually gimp you x_x
2. Camping ability. ROB is one of the only characters in the game that can camp at a level equal to you. Laser + gyro spam gets inside of the SHDL really easily :/
3. Refusal to die - ROB just doesn't die with the spike or FSmash. It's also pretty hard to kill him vertically. I have to get OS up to like 120-130% to KO him with USmash or FSmash. It's ridiculous to try and spike him
4. Priority. ROB's priority is through the roof against you. All of his tilts eat through your attacks + he has effective "poke" moves and "pressure" moves. DTilt, FTilt, projectiles and DSmash all fall in these categories.

Your 35% is maintained from
- lasers
- chaingrab
- Shine disrupting camping occasionally
- your camping ability (most ROBs are not as good as OS at that)
- ability to tack on damage safely (Nairs, AAA, Dairs, Bairs, U/Ftilt)

I'll see if I can record a few matches against OS and you can tell me what I"m doing wrong but my personal opinion is that the matchup is 65-35...
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Oh ok, haha. Yeah originally I had it set to Falco's favor, but most of the Falco's mainers had an issue with it.

I play with Toasty a lot (the vids there are pretty old and he will agree that we both have improved vastly), and I will agree that it is a tough matchup for Falco. You really have to control ROB with lasers. Lasers beat EVERYTHING ROB does. None of ROBs moves are fast enough to come out by the time you shoot a laser.

Toasty plays a relatively aggressive ROB, how does OS play against your Falco?
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
...haha ST do you really have to ask that question?

Campy. Lasers, gyros. Sits at one edge of the stage, waits for me to come to him. Spaces himself PERFECTLY every time. Powershields all of my lasers. Sometimes gimps me and sometimes doesn't. Waits to punish bad spacing.

ARGH SO **** PATIENT
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
...haha ST do you really have to ask that question?

Campy. Lasers, gyros. Sits at one edge of the stage, waits for me to come to him. Spaces himself PERFECTLY every time. Powershields all of my lasers. Sometimes gimps me and sometimes doesn't. Waits to punish bad spacing.

ARGH SO **** PATIENT
Is he actually ON the edge hanging or just near it standing? Cus it sounds like you need to take his advice, and other than that space him as well as he's apparently spacing you.

You're Falco, yeah it's fun to be aggressive and getting on a combo-roll will usually always take you off your smart game. Like any of Falco's other tough matchups, you really gotta know when to go ****incrazy and when to just plain be smart.

Here's what OS said in your link:
For Falco vs. ROB....

I would suggest using your blaster as often as possible. Get in the habit of throwing out your shine or simply standing blasters after landing; your goal is to rack up a lot of damage on ROB.
I do this all the time, well all the time as in every match not EVERY SHL. Mixing this in with normal SHL will be sure to get some damage on ROB.

It is VERY important to stay away from the edge. ROB will destroy you in this fashion due to your awful recovery; all he has to do is throw you and then hit you with a weak laser and you are forced to up+B! This means he can hit you out of it, and can easily kill you.
I always save my jump to make sure I don't get hit with a Gyro, laser or even Fair. If he is camping the edge (hanging, popping up to shoot lasers/gyro) Either stand in the middle and just reflect it, or go to opposite edge and bait him to coming, and jump up with SHDLs.

Your grab game is going to be pretty good, and your damage dealing is going to be good, so focus on those two aspects.

Your bair has no landing lag, so throw that out when you are in close proximity to ROB until you can hit him and start up your lasers again.
This is the HUGE advantage you have on ROB. Falco is so fast that racking up damage is pretty easy against ROB. Bait his aerials and punish in the air, beware of his distance to the ground thoe because his fair and bair have little to no lag upon landing-leading to him comboing you.

A good ROB will often bide his time, powershielding lasers until he has a full laser. If he attempts this, give him a reason to approach. Start doing standing blasters to make it more difficult for powershielding, or move a bit close then blaster, etc., etc. You want ROB to be aggressive; one powerful laser hitting you at medium % gets you off the edge, and then it is **** time.

Your shine is amazing at messing up ROB's spacing, so don't be afraid to throw it out.
Again what he/I mentioned in his first statement, mix up your laser game so some actually hit haha. Basic mindgames: make him do what you want, punish, rinse, do something different/repeat

Your main KO move will be your d-smash, your damage dealing moves will be your jab, bair, and blaster. Your forward air will be good to use if he is spamming spot dodge, but it has landing lag to be frugal with it.
I usually kill with Upsmash or Fsmash. Falco's DLX is too good. Getting ROB to 140% is a guaranteed Upsmash kill on the average ceiling stage (FD)
I wouldnt recomend Fair, EVER, to a grounded opponent, but if you can pull it off Godspeed.

Your main goal is to make HIS spam game harder than yours so he has to approach YOU. When in close, you can have the advantage with your superior grab game and excellent bair pressure.

ROB has a lot of ways around your blaster spam, including simply hanging onto the ledge. Every 20 seconds he becomes dangerous at long range if you make the slightest mistake, so if he does that you've got a whole new ball game ahead of you. If this occurs, you have to pressure HIM. You can do this by simply doing standing blasters until he gets up and hopefully hitting him once or twice, or by getting near the edge until you can run off and bair or dair him from the stage.It's a hard matchup for Falco when ROB won't approach, since Falco doesn't have much of an approach against a ROB that can powershield his lasers.
It may seen basic, but thats really all it is: spam better. Just know his options so you can punish whatever he does. You have a viable reflector, his...not so much.

I'm guessing OS just reads you better, which is nothing to be embarassed about as he is 'the best' ROB, is he not?
PS youre one lucky son of ***** because of that!!!!!
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
XD Thanks
By the way you should go to the Mages tournament in 09
I'll be there fo SHO FO SHOOOOOO
And maybe we can do double Falco or Spacies team!

Overswarm is just ridiculous at reading and camping. He has enough patience that he camps and reads you within a minute or so...then he goes slightly more offensive and swithces between being patient and attacking. It's so crazy, you don't know how good that tactic is until you go against him.

The unfortunate part of making HIS camping harder than yours is that he has more options for camping than you do. But I guess it's 60-40 if I play it right...you want me to record with him next time? I can try and bribe him with an mm
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Haha i dont want you wasting your money! =P

But seriously, yeah a vid of your Falco vs his ROB would be sweet.

I understand what you mean about his camping>yours, but the fact the Falco can SHDL-Reflector is just **** against projectiles. Not to mention merely hitting a grounded top with the shine makes it yours =D
From the OS vids i HAVE seen he seems to charge the Gyro all the way, which when reflected = ****.

Aslo '09!?!?!?! Thats a looooong way away hahaha.
My teams partner happens to be a ROB ;) SlashTalon+Toasty=HANDS OFF MY BREAD!
We're takin Critical Hit 3 btw.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Gogogogogo take CH3 teams plz
Beat dat Inui for me.
Actually I think you might have fun playing against Chu2Dicks if they team :p

Yeah his camping is too good, but maybe with these tips I'll take him to at least one stock..

Also you're teammates with Toasty? Coolio, I knew he played ROB but I didn't know he teamed w/ you

Yeah, let me record some videos on Tuesday...I hope OS comes sooner this time!
 

toasty

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
6,110
Location
Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA - IT'S SOVA, BABY! <
the truth is: I still have bad Melee habits and try to power shield at the wrong time and I also don't think to do that all the time because I'm just programmed to raperaperape that *****ass bird. The only times I win are when I'm patient. Slash knows my ROB pretty well, so I'm interested to see how he does against the other good ROB players that will be at CH3. Then I think he'll be able to give a more accurate and well rounded analysis of the matchup.

OS told me to just camp the ledge [meaning Falco is on stage, ROB is on the ledge] but...I want to ****. Hahahahaha...I'll keep that in mind in tourney though.

^---think Samus camping the ledge and essentially running the clock out. :( :( :(


uuuggghhh I'm not patient enough >_> Slash...maybe this bread WANTS to be touched...inappropriately, even. Maybe he doesn't WANT to be so sheltered!

comin for dat *** son....
 

D1

Banned via Administration
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,811
Location
Twitter @xD1x
I played a Marth in tourney that tried to fthrow fthrow CG to dair spike and I just DIed away >_>;...it was at CH3 as well. LOL completely escapable.
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
I played a Marth in tourney that tried to fthrow fthrow CG to dair spike and I just DIed away >_>;...it was at CH3 as well. LOL completely escapable.
Like away from spike or a throw?

I play a guy who knows how to do it all the time...I think they have to buffer the rest of the hits just like Falco can with getting things on characters that aren't normally chain-grabbed

also, hey D1! *waves*
 

Luiz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
5
Beautiful thread, any more tips against Ike? i have so much trouble getting out of his AAA, most of the matches i have i need to phantasm + laser like the 90% of the time. His dash attack is pretty annoying too.
 

SlashTalon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Beautiful thread, any more tips against Ike? i have so much trouble getting out of his AAA, most of the matches i have i need to phantasm + laser like the 90% of the time. His dash attack is pretty annoying too.
Lasers? I'll talk to some Ike mains and get more of their info on the topic. All the Ike's Ive played havent given me any trouble (Other than me being a moron and rolling into the occasional Fsmash =p).
 

Luiz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
5
I saw on ike's guide a "how to train" section, could be cool to add it here like... what to train, what to use on battle bla bla blaa..
 
Top Bottom