Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[SharkLord]

Yes, hello! Heard we were talking about Tom Nook!




What I imagine is that he'd share a handful of moves with Villager and Isabelle, but his specials, throws and some smash attacks would be very different-- the Wolf to Villager and Isabelle's Fox and Falco, as it were.

There are two things Tom Nook can do that
1. Villager and Isabelle haven't done already, and
2. Are something only he really can do.

And those are:

Bells:

View attachment 315651

and Furniture Leaves:

View attachment 315652

I imagine that Nook could gain more Bells the more attacks he lands on an opponent, boosting his stats the more Bells he has on hand. Basically, the anti-Lucario. Bells could simply stay in his pocket, or be spent on stronger or quicker attacks. If the player wishes, Nook can also, as others have said, spend Bells on buildings and taking over areas of the stage that would penalize the opponent if they stepped foot in it-- a literal zoner. If he has to use tools, he could even spend Bells to (possibly temporarily) upgrade those tools into their silver or even golden variants.

As for his leaves, they could be placed by Nook as part of his smashes, landing on the ground as furniture, or laid down as traps like Snake's C4, or even thrown like throwing stars, turning into furniture on impact. This might be pushing it a bit, but perhaps they could lean into his tanuki origins and have him transforms items into leaves that he can use.

Pocket, I feel, is the Animal Crossing thumbprint in Smash Bros, much like the Fire Emblem cast's counters and the Star Fox crew's blasters. Tom Nook's version can be differentiated from the other two Animal Crossers by allowing him to "sell" items and projectiles he catches and convert them into Bells to boost his stats.

And what better Final Smash for Tom Nook than building a house for his opponents, dealing massive damage from the sheer weight of the debt they've found themselves in?

View attachment 315658

Long story short, I think Tom Nook can make for a very interesting character that, while similar, can provide a different experience from Villager and Isabelle. If another Animal Crossing character is on the table, it's probably going to be him.

View attachment 315657

Nice concept! Though, I must ask, how would you spend the Bells to buff your attacks? Would it be a held input, a special, etc.?

 

[Yiptap]

Glad to see my boi Tom Nook get chosen. I'm **** at making movesets, so I'll just resubmit this assist trophy concept I posted on the Smash Bros Infinite project.

D: Flick

Flick would spawn and stand still on the stage. He would then release Tarantulas and Scorpions from their cages! Tarantulas and Scorpions do the same thing, stunning and poisoning at the same time. The bugs also don't stop running if they get to a ledge. Flick will occasionally throw a beehive at an opponent, which stays if the fighter dodges it (if items are turned off, the beehive disappears if it hits the ground). When Flick is about to leave, if items are turned on, Flick gives a bug related item to the summoner (Beetle, Beehive, etc).

I don't really have any questions about Tom Nook, as I can see him more like a full fighter and not a pseudo-clone like Isabelle.

Noms: Isaac (TBoI x10) Thank you Paraster , very cool!

 

[Laniv]

Nice concept! Though, I must ask, how would you spend the Bells to buff your attacks? Would it be a held input, a special, etc.?

I imagine it'd be held inputs for his moves. He'd "overcharge" his smash attacks, for example.

 

[PeridotGX]

As mentioned previously, these "how to buy" things are so much easier for Nintendo characters. New Horizons is on Switch for $60, New Leaf is on 3DS for $20, but with relatively little Nook. There's also an Amiibo of him, it was dirt cheap but I don't know if New Horizons increased it's value.

Here's my question: what Stage might Nook come with?

 

[Gengar84]

As mentioned previously, these "how to buy" things are so much easier for Nintendo characters. New Horizons is on Switch for $60, New Leaf is on 3DS for $20, but with relatively little Nook. There's also an Amiibo of him, it was dirt cheap but I don't know if New Horizons increased it's value.

Here's my question: what Stage might Nook come with?

I have never played the series so I can’t really give any specifics but I would imagine that it would have to be based on the island from New Horizons. I’m hoping it has an interesting layout because I felt like Smashville was a little basic but judging by how the DLC stages have been so far, I’m expecting it to be relatively simple as well.

 

[Paraster]

Here's my question: what Stage might Nook come with?

It's not really tied to Tom Nook specifically, but I really like the Infinite thread's "Mystery Island" concept.

 

[SharkLord]

Heads up, we should be switching over to the next cycle in an hour or two. Be sure to get in your final thoughts if you have any.

 

[Deleted member]

Nominating Funky Kong x10

As mentioned previously, these "how to buy" things are so much easier for Nintendo characters. New Horizons is on Switch for $60, New Leaf is on 3DS for $20, but with relatively little Nook. There's also an Amiibo of him, it was dirt cheap but I don't know if New Horizons increased it's value.

Here's my question: what Stage might Nook come with?

A stage? We already have a couple towns & an island, so I’d like to see Nook’s Cranny.

It’s Nook’s shop and one of the more well known AC locations. You could have it get upgraded as the battle goes on to change the stage’s layout & background, which would thematically tie in to a potential Bell mechanic other users have suggested for his moveset.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Heads up, we should be switching over to the next cycle in an hour or two. Be sure to get in your final thoughts if you have any.

Sharkboy me lord, do tell what's next on the thread

 

[PeridotGX]

Have I nominated yet? If not, Masked Man X10(? However many I have).

 

[SharkLord]

...And once again I am late with the schedule. First off, I'm gonna see if there's anyone who's interested in helping out with the schedule and noms and all that, because I think I might need some help in that regard. Anyways...

Spoiler: Noms List

• 50+ noms
• Quote - x90
• Sora - x70
• Isaac (TBoI) - x65
• Euden - x65
• LoL rep - x60
• Funky Kong - x60
• Zegram Grant - x60
• Farmer - x55
• Masked Man - x55
• 26-50 noms
• Jace x45
• Agumon - x45
• Maxwell - x35
• 11-25 noms
• Amaterasu - x25
• 2B - x25
• Chosen Undead - x20
• Frisk - x19
• Estelle Bright - x15
• Pyramid Head x25
• Master Hand - x20
• Mega Man X x15
• Isaac (Golden Sun) - x15
• Shovel Knight - x15
• Trauma Center Content - x12
• 5-10 noms
• Laharl - x10
• Daitoryo - x10
• Battletoads - x10
• Saber - x10
• Elma - x8
• Amiya - x5
• Gunvolt - x5
• Octoling - x5
• Jill Stingray - x5
• Astral Chain rep - x5
• Nathan Drake x5
• Alucard - x5
• Under 5 noms
• Sans - x2
• Freedy Fazbear - x2
• Jill Valentine - x1
• Fillia - x1
• Danganronpa rep - x1
• Marco Rossi - x1
• Gordon Freeman - x1
• Dart Monkey - x1

The ones crossed out will be our new schedule, which we'll get to in a minute.

Spoiler: Extra Noms

• C chocolatejr9 - x10 (15 total)
• Gengar84 - x5 (10 total)
• Paraster - x10 (15 total)
• Cutie Gwen - x5 (10 total)
• Commander_Alph - x5 (10 total)
• Janx_uwu - x5 (10 total)
• Laniv - x15 (20 total)
• Pillow - x5 (10 total)
• amageish - x10 (15 total)
• Yiptap - x5 (10 total)
• PeridotGX - x10 (15 total)
• SharkLord - x5 (10 total)
• @Autumn Breeze - x5 (10 total)

Was a bit more lenient for this one. Went back to the "Answers = Noms" thing, which seems to have worked out pretty well. Anyways, new schedule:

• Day 8 - Quote
• Day 9 - Sora
• Day 10 - Isaac (TBoI)
• Day 11 - Euden
• Day 12 - LoL rep
• Day 13 - Funky Kong
• Day 14 - Zegram Ghart

This means we'll be starting off the week with the other major Japanese indie, Quote!

Nomination - Miriam (Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night) x10

 

[Commander_Alph]

So, first thing first. What legacy Cave Story has in the world of Indie game?

All noms for Saber

 

[chocolatejr9]

So I've never played Cave Story. Does anybody mind explaining what it is, and why it's such a big deal?

Nominations: Agumon x15

 

[Pillow]

So, first thing first. What legacy Cave Story has in the world of Indie game?

All noms for Saber

I would personally call it the quintessential Indie game. Without Cave Story we would not have Shovel Knight, Binding of Isaac, Undertale, Ori, etc. If legacy is the most important thing for a character, then Quote should be considered the clear front runner for Indie characters.

Noms:
x10 Jace

 

[Commander_Alph]

Also, on the topic of Cave Story what's this rumor about Nicalis "cut ties" with someone, I've never gotten a clear cut answer on when did this happen or who did they ghost considering it always been bring up in RTC?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Also, on the topic of Cave Story what's this rumor about Nicalis "cut ties" with someone, I've never gotten a clear cut answer on when did this happen or who did they ghost considering it always been bring up in RTC?

Apparently, they tricked the original creator into giving them the rights to the IP. Think they took advantage of the fact he didn't know English or something?

 

[Gengar84]

I think it would be cool to have an indie rep and Cave Story is one of the most iconic so it is a great choice. I never had the chance to try the game myself so my question is what do you envision for Quote’s stage? I assume it’s probably some kind of cave based on the name.

Since Zegram is now on the schedule, I’ll go back tonominating the Battletoads. Just a heads up that Zegram’s last name is Ghart, not Grant but it’s totally understandable since he isn’t a very well known character.

x10 Battletoads

 

[Pillow]

I think it would be cool to have an indie rep and Cave Story is one of the most iconic so it is a great choice. I never had the chance to try the game myself so my question is what do you envision for Quote’s stage?

Since Zegram is now on the schedule, I’ll go back tonominating the Battletoads. Just a heads up that his last name is Ghart, not Grant but it’s totally understandable since he isn’t a very well known character.

x10 Battletoads

It’s been over a decade since I’ve played Cave Story, but I think the first starting village with the rabbit people would be a fine stage.

 

[GolisoPower]

If Touhou is the Dragon Quest of indie games, and Minecraft is like the Xenoblade of indie games, then from what I've seen, Cave Story seems like the Final Fantasy of indie games. Honestly feels weird considering Cave Story revitalized 2D game design. I don't know much about the game itself, but with something like that, it's no wonder people love it.

Noms: Pyramid Head x5

 

[Perkilator]

I don't play Cave Story. But I know Sari does so I think I'll summon him.

OH, GREAT Sari , hear my voice! We are discussing Quote in this thread. So come forth and speak about him!

Noms: Crash Bandicoot ×5

 

[Gengar84]

Another question, what kinds of abilities does Quote have? How do you think he would play in Smash?

 

[Pillow]

Another question, what kinds of abilities does Quote have? How do you think he would play in Smash?

I’ll probably revisit this in a later post, as I’m still kind of digging through my old memories of my last playthrough, but gameplay wise Cave Story is pretty much a Metroidvania game. Quote has a wide variety of different weapons and powerups to use, so the moveset kind of writes itself.

I do remember spending quite a lot of the game airborn (he either had a jet pack or some gun that let him hover when shot downwards idr), so I imagine Quote’s niche in Smash would be as a zoner with a strong emphasis on his air game / air mobility.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Another question, what kinds of abilities does Quote have? How do you think he would play in Smash?

Quote's primarily a gunner, the closest to a melee option is his Blade weapon which has less range than the guns as he yeets a sword at short range. One key mechanic in Cave Story is that enemies would drop EXP when killed and by collecting the EXP, your weapons grew stronger, maxing out at level 3. However, getting hit made you lose EXP, I can imagine Sakurai liking the idea

 

[Deleted member]

Nominating Laharl x10

From the little I’ve seen of Cave Story, I’m assuming Quote would be a Gunner type character? That’d be pretty cool to see since there aren’t that many in Smash, and the ones there are can leave a lot to desire. Honestly I at least hope he makes it as a Mii costume considering how influential Cave Story is.

 

[Pillow]

Quote's primarily a gunner, the closest to a melee option is his Blade weapon which has less range than the guns as he yeets a sword at short range. One key mechanic in Cave Story is that enemies would drop EXP when killed and by collecting the EXP, your weapons grew stronger, maxing out at level 3. However, getting hit made you lose EXP, I can imagine Sakurai liking the idea

One of the more interesting things about Cave Story is also that you can never have all the weapons in the same play through. In fact the first gun can be exchanged at least 3 times for 3 different weapons at different times in the game I.e. Curly offers to trade her machine gun for it pretty early on, but if you have the machine gun you cannot get the Spur or Snake later on. I’m not sure how this use of narrative choice can be incorporated into a moveset, but it’s interesting to think about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One of the more interesting things about Cave Story is also that you can never have all the weapons in the same play through. In fact the first gun can be exchanged at least 3 times for 3 different weapons at different times in the game I.e. Curly offers to trade her machine gun for it pretty early on, but if you have the machine gun you cannot get the Spur or Snake later on. I’m not sure how this use of narrative choice can be incorporated into a moveset, but it’s interesting to think about.

Wasn't the Spur the one that worked the other way around with EXP?


Also I just realized we're missing an RTC staple: Music to sell people on. Considering Sari already got tagged, I'll save him the notification and hope he has some good examples for people here

 

[Sari]

Thank you Perkilator

So I actually did a whole article on Quote here which gives a summary on Quote and what type of content he could bring. I also created an entire moveset for him here.

Feel free to look over them and critique them if needed.

EDIT: Per Cutie Gwen 's request, here are some Cave Story songs:

Spoiler: Cave Story Music

-----

As for my nominations, I guess I'll throw them to Carl Johnson x10

 

[Deleted member]

One of the more interesting things about Cave Story is also that you can never have all the weapons in the same play through. In fact the first gun can be exchanged at least 3 times for 3 different weapons at different times in the game I.e. Curly offers to trade her machine gun for it pretty early on, but if you have the machine gun you cannot get the Spur or Snake later on. I’m not sure how this use of narrative choice can be incorporated into a moveset, but it’s interesting to think about.

Haven’t played Cave Story but from what you’re describing, maybe selecting a weapon once per stock that alters his gun moves could work as a gimmick? He’d use his default gun until then, and even if it’s all around weaker not switching keeps your options open & it’d have some benefits over the others I suppose.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Haven’t played Cave Story but from what you’re describing, maybe selecting a weapon once per stock that alters his gun moves could work as a gimmick? He’d use his default gun until then, and even if it’s all around weaker not switching keeps your options open & it’d have some benefits over the others I suppose.

Ehhhhhh locking you out of specific moves on respawn isn't exactly part of Sakurai's casual friendly vision, though now that I think about it, a Curly alt would justify the machinegun whereas Smash has gone for story specific weapons before, Corrin's Omega Yato is only in Fates' true story DLC

 

[Pillow]

Haven’t played Cave Story but from what you’re describing, maybe selecting a weapon once per stock that alters his gun moves could work as a gimmick? He’d use his default gun until then, and even if it’s all around weaker not switching keeps your options open & it’d have some benefits over the others I suppose.

Well, it’s not so core to the identity of cave story to the point where a gimmick should be made out of it imo. Sari’s moveset with the weapon exp mechanic would be a better fit. If anything, it would fit best as a custom moveset in case Sakurai ever wanted to bring those back for characters other than the Miis.

Ehhhhhh locking you out of specific moves on respawn isn't exactly part of Sakurai's casual friendly vision, though now that I think about it, a Curly alt would justify the machinegun whereas Smash has gone for story specific weapons before, Corrin's Omega Yato is only in Fates' true story DLC

Yeah that’s a good point. Curly honestly would make a perfect alt, and she’s most associated with the machine gun

 

[Deleted member]

Ehhhhhh locking you out of specific moves on respawn isn't exactly part of Sakurai's casual friendly vision, though now that I think about it, a Curly alt would justify the machinegun whereas Smash has gone for story specific weapons before, Corrin's Omega Yato is only in Fates' true story DLC

Well, it’s not so core to the identity of cave story to the point where a gimmick should be made out of it imo. Sari’s moveset with the weapon exp mechanic would be a better fit. If anything, it would fit best as a custom moveset in case Sakurai ever wanted to bring those back for characters other than the Miis.



Yeah that’s a good point. Curly honestly would make a perfect alt, and she’s most associated with the machine gun

I agree, it's just fun to think about. Like if Min Min's ARMs change required more thought behind the decision. Something like that would fit a character like Frisk better though.

 

[Sari]

Also, on the topic of Cave Story what's this rumor about Nicalis "cut ties" with someone, I've never gotten a clear cut answer on when did this happen or who did they ghost considering it always been bring up in RTC?

The short version of the whole Nicalis thing is that in September of 2019, an article was published by Kotaku which exposed the company for having a super toxic work environment over the years. Due to the timing of this article in regards to FP2 selection time as well as Nintendo adding characters to Smash from much worse companies, I don't think it would have any affect on Quote's chances. Also keep in mind that Nicalis only has the publishing rights to Cave Story/Quote and did not actually create it (that would be Pixel who lives in Japan). The whole thing is a small detriment to me wanting Quote though I'd still want him in Smash due to being Pixel's creation and how Cave Story shaped the indie genre.

About the cutting ties thing, I've heard some people say that Nicalis "stole" the rights to Cave Story by taking advantage of Pixel not knowing English when he signed the paperwork. To this day I still have no idea on whether this is actually true or not, however I'm inclined to think that this specific claim is just a rumor since I can never find a source on it. Plus I've even heard that Pixel retweeted several Cave Story Switch port tweets from Nicalis so I can't imagine him hating them too much.

 

[Paraster]

Okay, first off: in my signature is a doc that's basically a complete summary of everything Quote would have in a Challenger Pack. Moveset, cosmetic stuff, stage, music, spirits, even Mii costumes that would come out at the same time.

I will say that while I have Mimiga Village for my stage pick, I'd also like Egg Corridor or Outer Wall.

Apparently, they tricked the original creator into giving them the rights to the IP. Think they took advantage of the fact he didn't know English or something?

This thread clears up some of the weird issues surrounding Cave Story and Nicalis. In summary, there is no evidence that Nicalis tricked or mistreated Pixel, and Pixel has never spoken negatively of the company.
(Granted, there ARE legitimate reasons to dislike Nicalis and its management, but it seems that everything around Cave Story is exaggerations at worst.)

Haven’t played Cave Story but from what you’re describing, maybe selecting a weapon once per stock that alters his gun moves could work as a gimmick? He’d use his default gun until then, and even if it’s all around weaker not switching keeps your options open & it’d have some benefits over the others I suppose.

I actually took this into account when creating the most recent version of my Quote moveset, though I simply left some weapons out of the moveset altogether (earlier versions tried to cram every weapon in).

While I'm pretty firmly set on my own ideas (mostly), there are a few things I'm curious about others' opinions on:

What do you think the Final Smash would be? I have him fire a laser from the Spur (his strongest weapon), though for an alternate version of the moveset that has the Spur be neutral special, I gave him an attack based on the "8-Bit Striker," one of Curly's Ultras from Blade Strangers.

Also, with regards to music: how do you think they'd handle the multiple different "official" versions of the soundtrack? Would they stick to the original versions for non-remixes, or would they use the "Remastered" and/or "Cave Story+" versions? Would they take songs from multiple versions of the soundtrack, or stick to one?

Noms: Frisk x15

 

[Pillow]

The short version of the whole Nicalis thing is that in September of 2019, an article was published by Kotaku which exposed the company for having a super toxic work environment over the years. Due to the timing of this article in regards to FP2 selection time as well as Nintendo adding characters to Smash from much worse companies, I don't think it would have any affect on Quote's chances. Also keep in mind that Nicalis only has the publishing rights to Cave Story/Quote and did not actually create it (that would be Pixel who lives in Japan). The whole thing is a small detriment to me wanting Quote though I'd still want him in Smash due to being Pixel's creation and how Cave Story shaped the indie genre.

About the cutting ties thing, I've heard some people say that Nicalis "stole" the rights to Cave Story by taking advantage of Pixel not knowing English when he signed the paperwork. To this day I still have no idea on whether this is actually true or not, however I'm inclined to think that this specific claim is just a rumor since I can never find a source on it. Plus I've even heard that Pixel retweeted several Cave Story Switch port tweets from Nicalis so I can't imagine him hating them too much.

I’m pretty confident that it’s just a rumor. Contracts made in bad faith are unenforceable. You can’t just trick someone into handing IP over like that, that’s not how it works.

Nicalis sending c&d’s over free copies of an originally free game is a **** move though.

 

[Commander_Alph]

What do you think the Final Smash would be? I have him fire a laser from the Spur (his strongest weapon), though for an alternate version of the moveset that has the Spur be neutral special, I gave him an attack based on the "8-Bit Striker," one of Curly's Ultras from Blade Strangers.

I feel like sticking with the OG game is better considering Sakurai never pull something from their guest appearance as major as a Final Smash, tho from seeing the video it could work as a call back but it doesn't feel really impactful like say Pac-Man turning into his iconic pizza design. Also what's Quote's Ultimate in that game anyway?

 

[Paraster]

Nicalis sending c&d’s over free copies of an originally free game is a **** move though.

They did not send C&Ds over the freeware version; they were over a fan-made decompilation, if I recall.

The freeware version is still available through multiple means, including both Pixel's own site and a couple fan sites.

I feel like sticking with the OG game is better considering Sakurai never pull something from their guest appearance as major as a Final Smash, tho from seeing the video it could work as a call back.

That's a fair point. Like I said, I went with the Spur and only used 8-Bit Striker as a cool alternative for a version where Spur couldn't be the Final Smash.

If not that, then maybe the Super Missile Launcher? Or a cinematic involving Curly, Balrog, and/or King?

 

[Commander_Alph]

If not that, then maybe the Super Missile Launcher? Or a cinematic involving Curly, Balrog, and/or King?

Tell me if I'm correct but isn't Balrog that guy who you could ride on him, that could be a good Final Smash where he appeared out of nowhere and just stomped the opponent before you get on top of him and fly into the sky barraging them with missiles. I believe it is based on this art and he himself shoot missile too and that basically his whole gist?

 

[Paraster]

Tell me if I'm correct but isn't Balrog that guy who you could ride on him, that could be a good Final Smash where he appeared out of nowhere and just stomped the opponent before you get on top of him and fly into the sky barraging them with missiles. I believe it is based on this art

Yep, that's him. I think they'd probably keep him grounded (his flying in the original game is only really one scene, though he does do a lot of jumping), but I think that'd be cool (though I'd still prefer just the Spur).

 

[Gengar84]

Since Cave Story is a Metroidvania style game, I’m curious if Quote has any interesting alternate outfits in the same vein as Samus’ different power suits? I’m always looking for an opportunity to have cool alternate outfits for characters in place of simple palate swaps. Is there anything that could work for an alternate outfit or would he likely just have palate swaps?

 

[ahemtoday]

I'm in a bit of an awkward situation, here, because I know enough about Cave Story peripherally and from the movesets already posted to not really have many questions to ask, but I don't know enough to really share any ideas. I felt the same way about Tom Nook.

Uh... Hey, what would Quote's movement be like? Like, his dash speed, air traction, weight and all that? Could he walljump, or crawl, or anything like that, do you think?