Character Discussion Thread

[TeenGirlSquad]

Ryu defines the fighting genre, but Pacman and Mario define gaming as a whole.

One genre is nothing compared to the whole gaming scene.

What about the other third-parties though? He's far more iconic than Snake at the very least.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

There is a difference Cyber, you are just refusing to see it.

Pacman is what defined gaming back in the Eighties. Ever heard of Pacman fever?

Mario is what popularized video games to the casual crowd during the gaming crash because of its accessibility.

T-Shirts is your argument? I see more Mario and Pacman shirts worn and in public than Ryu.

How recognizable is Ryu compared to Pacman and Mario, Cyber? That is the definition of iconic.

Ryu defines the fighting genre, but Pacman and Mario define gaming as a whole.

One genre is nothing compared to the whole gaming scene.

If it is 'your' definition of iconic, so, Mario isn't there.. cause he's Nintendo's mascot, but even being in a huge amount of genres, he's just the face of platform games.. and that's it. He's really limited in public eyes of just one genre... In other hand, Pac-Man being just related to his first maze game on Arcades, he is still the definition of gaming...

Crash Bandicoot is iconic by what he is (or was), just as Mega Man,.. they're worldwide recognizable by their games and their respective genres; and yet, they're not the definition of the specific genre like Mario;

Ryu is the definition of fighting games, and just by this status makes him in the same level of Mario. and yes.. I say, anybody can recognize him or at least know from where he is from just seeing his picture.

as I said, Street Fighter never had weakened of media or impact; .. the pop culture is one of the best indicators

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If this Ryu leak is true, than what I think is this: Nintendo is testing the waters with more than one third party character for a company. Why choose Ryu over a new sonic character? Cause you risk people whining that Shadow or Metal Sonic is a clone, or complaining that it was Tails over Shadow. Also, I don't think we are going to get a bunch of PAC-Man, Sonic, or Mega Man chracters, I think they are just going to stick to the one per series with third parties. And aside from Beyonetta, Sega and Namco don't really have noteworthy characters. Ryu fits this position nicely. Sure, Capcom has Dante, and Wesker, but Street Fighter has been around sience arcade games, something Resident Evil and Devil May Cry have not. (I may be wrong about Resident Evil but I'm almost positive that Devil May Cry is a fairly new franchise.)

All these "iconic" posts and not a single mention of Wreck-It-Ralph.

Wreck-it-Ralph isn't Iconic. I'm pretty sure he was made up for the movie. Sorry if that's not what you meant.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

To be fair, Sakurai said that as a rule. You just have to have A GAME on a Nintendo console to be added.

The fan part was, "ermagherd, he only has 2 games. Screw that!"

Yep. Even a more good reason why getting in Smash Brothers does not matter as much for Third Parties. Soon it will just be who gives the highest bid, regardless of where they come from.

"You just need to be a video game character" will be the next phrase that comes out.

What about the other third-parties though? He's far more iconic than Snake at the very least.

More than Snake, but less than Megaman and Sonic.

Sonic is iconic from being the poster boy for Sega and fueling one of the popular Console Wars during the 16-bit era.

Megaman is known as Capcom's mascot (or was).

With Snake it goes about barely. Ryu popularized the Fighting Genre in the Arcades, but Arcades are dead in the west unless you are Dave and Busters. In Japan they are going strong, but they are doing terrible everywhere else (that I know of).

Snake, you could argue, defined and popularized the Sneak and destroy Genre of video games, or the Stealth games.

I would say Ryu is more iconic than Snake, but not by much.

If it is 'your' definition of iconic, so, Mario isn't there.. cause he's Nintendo's mascot, but even being in a huge amount of genres, he's just the face of platform games.. and that's it. He's really limited in public eyes of just one genre... In other hand, Pac-Man being just related to his first maze game on Arcades, he is still the definition of gaming...

And? Mario repopularized the video game scene during its crash. Pacman even popularized the Arcade Machine craze back in the day. Ryu only popularized the fighting genre.

Crash Bandicoot is iconic by what he is (or was), just as Mega Man,.. they're worldwide recognizable by their games and their respective genres; and yet, they're not the definition of the specific genre like Mario;

Mascots such as Crash and Megaman out way Ryu, but not ones like Bubsy (I would not even say that).

Ryu is the definition of fighting games, and just by this status makes him in the same level of Mario. and yes.. I say, anybody can recognize him or at least know from where he is from just seeing his picture.

Ryu popularized the fighting game genre, but did he ever re popularize gaming as a whole in the West? Those are two entirely different levels of popularizing and ones that are easily distinguishable.

Would Ryu be recognized by those who do not even game moreso than Mario and Pacman? The answer is an easy and simple no.

as I said, Street Fighter never had weakened of media or impact; .. the pop culture is one of the best indicators

Really? What about the Locked on Disc Content? It is what sparked the hate for DLC in video games.

What about Yoshinori Ono, the director of Street Fighter leaving? That may have impacted some people (if Yoshinori Ono's leaving is true, not really sure if it is still a rumor or not).

Would you consider Street Fighter V focusing on digital sales be a hit in the franchise's health? Capcom still needed Sony to help them make SFV. Having your game become digital over physical is not that great correct?

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/as-capcom-plays-it-safe-sales-fall-and-profits-cli/1100-6425061/

 

[Ura]

Spoiler

I would be so happy if this turned out to be the final roster for Smash 4. (Note: Robin Female, Wii Fit Trainer Male, and Felix are alts in this list)

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, I've noticed that third-party discussion have dominated the topic here lately so I feel I might as well introduce something else Nintendo characters-related?

How many Nintendo newcomers are you expecting in light Roy and Ryu being leaked?

We know Mewtwo and Lucas are returning and based off datamining, Ryu and Roy are probably coming back as well. Wolf I also feel is in the work thought this is purely my speculation and I can see him being revealed at E3 and released when Star Fox Wii U is confirmed. I don't think any of them will be passed off as ballot characters.

I expect to see at least two Nintendo newcomers as I always have and I think three Nintendo newcomers is plausible as well even in light of recent announcements. King K. Rool is a character I am hoping makes the roster although I also feel as Inklings, Chorus Men, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Krystal (if she shows up at E3 alongside Star Fox), and maybe Captain Toad are plausible additions as well. That's not even counting other characters that may surprise us.

Remember that we're probably getting more characters than we expected two days ago.

@ Ura : I could honestly see something like that happening in an optimistic scenario, barring Felix.

 

[Arcadenik]

I say we all support Slime & Chocobo. Our new duo.

If third-party companies are allowed to have more than one character, these two are the ideal choices to represent both Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

 

[Zzuxon]

In regards to this Ryu iconicness discussion.
I would think that Ryu is more iconic than Mega man.
If not that, he is certainly more important to the history of video games.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Anyway, I've noticed that third-party discussion have dominated the topic here lately so I feel I might as well introduce something else Nintendo characters-related?

How many Nintendo newcomers are you expecting in light Roy and Ryu being leaked?

We know Mewtwo and Lucas are returning and based off datamining, Ryu and Roy are probably coming back as well. Wolf I also feel is in the work thought this is purely my speculation and I can see him being revealed at E3 and released when Star Fox Wii U is confirmed. I don't think any of them will be passed off as ballot characters.

I expect to see at least two Nintendo newcomers as I always have and I think three Nintendo newcomers is plausible as well even in light of recent announcements. King K. Rool is a character I am hoping makes the roster although I also feel as Inklings, Chorus Men, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Krystal (if she shows up at E3 alongside Star Fox), and maybe Captain Toad are plausible additions as well. That's not even counting other characters that may surprise us.

Remember that we're probably getting more characters than we expected two days ago.

@ Ura : I could honestly see something like that happening in an optimistic scenario, barring Felix.

Newcomers? 3-4. I already expected about 3 anyway, but we can potentially get more now. I'd argue that the veterans we have: Roy, Wolf, Lucas, and Mewtwo, basically will take veterans off of the cards all-together. MAYBE Snake coming back, as well. I'm still iffy on Snake, but with Ryu I'm a lot less iffy on him.


I think the ballot will have at LEAST 3 characters, maybe even 4. Or there's a non-ballot Nintendo newcomer, but I'd bet at this point they'll all be characters who are on the ballot.



I don't think Inklings will be DLC. I never did before, and this just furthers the notion. UNLESS they plan to add DLC for up to two years, in which case, yeah, they're basically guaranteed. (But I doubt we'd get DLC that far out.)

 

[Ivander]

Wreck-it-Ralph isn't Iconic. I'm pretty sure he was made up for the movie. Sorry if that's not what you meant.

It wasn't. I was just surprised no one had mentioned it, as I thought, "You know, with all these iconic posts, I bet there's at least one post that talks about how "Ryu" is in Wreck-It-Ralph, a movie that celebrates gaming, over Mario(Don't take this part too seriously. I'm aware they tried to get him.) and Mega Man." and surprisingly, not a single one.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

In regards to this Ryu iconicness discussion.
I would think that Ryu is more iconic than Mega man.
If not that, he is certainly more important to the history of video games.

exactly;
funny story; once, talking with my girlfriend about Smash Bros. I had to explain to her who is Mega Man;.. but She'd known Ryu ("the karate guy") from a mile.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I think of Chun-Li before Ryu, but I don't play Street Fighter in the first place.


Or any fighting game that isn't Smash, for that matter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anyway, I've noticed that third-party discussion have dominated the topic here lately so I feel I might as well introduce something else Nintendo characters-related?

How many Nintendo newcomers are you expecting in light Roy and Ryu being leaked?

We know Mewtwo and Lucas are returning and based off datamining, Ryu and Roy are probably coming back as well. Wolf I also feel is in the work thought this is purely my speculation and I can see him being revealed at E3 and released when Star Fox Wii U is confirmed. I don't think any of them will be passed off as ballot characters.

I expect to see at least two Nintendo newcomers as I always have and I think three Nintendo newcomers is plausible as well even in light of recent announcements. King K. Rool is a character I am hoping makes the roster although I also feel as Inklings, Chorus Men, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Krystal (if she shows up at E3 alongside Star Fox), and maybe Captain Toad are plausible additions as well. That's not even counting other characters that may surprise us.

Remember that we're probably getting more characters than we expected two days ago.

@ Ura : I could honestly see something like that happening in an optimistic scenario, barring Felix.

1:Your name is best Earthbound refrance.
2:I expect to see Wolf, King K. Rool (cause the ballot), Bandana Dee, Rhythm Heaven rep, and maybe Toad.

It wasn't. I was just surprised no one had mentioned it, as I thought, "You know, with all these iconic posts, I bet there's at least one post that talks about how "Ryu" is in Wreck-It-Ralph, a movie that celebrates gaming, over Mario(Don't take this part too seriously. I'm aware they tried to get him.) and Mega Man." and surprisingly, not a single one.

Ah. Didn't notice Ryu in the movie. (It took me watching it a second time to catch Sonic loosing all of his rings when he got knocked over by the.... um. ship?)

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Who the hell actually bought Bayonetta or Wonderful 101?

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Who the hell actually bought Bayonetta or Wonderful 101?

I did - only played TW101, still have Bayonetta 1+2 safe in their box.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Ah. Didn't notice Ryu in the movie. (It took me watching it a second time to catch Sonic loosing all of his rings when he got knocked over by the.... um. ship?)

you didn't notice Ryu? he was like the second or third character appaering and talking in the movie,.. literally; :\/

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Okay, first of all, Wonder Red only has one game in his series, and it's medicore at best. So why does he deserve to get in again?

 

[Ivander]

you didn't notice Ryu? he was like the second or third character appaering and talking in the movie,.. literally; :\/

I know he appeared at least 3 times. Twice in the bar scene and once during the credits, with him and Ralph destroying the car.

 

[JamesDNaux]

If we're talking about iconic things in Wreck-it-Ralph, there was a certain something in a certain scene...


!

Though it does make me wonder what all the non-arcade characters/references are doing there in the first place.

 

[Kalimdori]

Anyway, I've noticed that third-party discussion have dominated the topic here lately so I feel I might as well introduce something else Nintendo characters-related?

How many Nintendo newcomers are you expecting in light Roy and Ryu being leaked?

We know Mewtwo and Lucas are returning and based off datamining, Ryu and Roy are probably coming back as well. Wolf I also feel is in the work thought this is purely my speculation and I can see him being revealed at E3 and released when Star Fox Wii U is confirmed. I don't think any of them will be passed off as ballot characters.

I expect to see at least two Nintendo newcomers as I always have and I think three Nintendo newcomers is plausible as well even in light of recent announcements. King K. Rool is a character I am hoping makes the roster although I also feel as Inklings, Chorus Men, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Krystal (if she shows up at E3 alongside Star Fox), and maybe Captain Toad are plausible additions as well. That's not even counting other characters that may surprise us.

Remember that we're probably getting more characters than we expected two days ago.

@ Ura : I could honestly see something like that happening in an optimistic scenario, barring Felix.

I'm expecting 3 Nintendo newcomers at an absolute minimum, and who knows how many at maximum.

I always said 8 DLC characters at the absolute minimum, and I still stand by that.

So with what we know of so far, that leaves me four more spots. Wolf will definitely be one of them, and I could easily see the other 3 being newcomers.

 

[Andinus]

Which is not saying much. In terms of popularity, I doubt she will maintain her popularity as we go longer without a Bayonetta game on a Nintendo system. And how is Bayonetta even close to iconic? She only had two games; the first one wasn't enough to justify a sequel published by Sega and the sequel sold poorly anyway.

Trying to argue that she is the tallest ****** is pointless; she isn't anywhere near the same level as Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, or Ryu and as such has no business being a guest in a Smash game.I used to play Super Street Fighter II on the SNES when I was a young child; it was the first game I ever played on that console and the first Capcom game I touched. Let's just say my experience with this game has been interesting.

SF2 on the SNES comprised most of my life outside of school my 7-8th grade years, haha.

 

[A10theHero]

I've got two questions. So I heard Mewtwo doesn't have any usable custom moves at the moment. Can he still use equipment?
And that leads me to my second question. Assuming "yes" on the previous answer, let's say we get a DLC character from a new series--I'll say Spyro cuz reasons. Aside from the Nails (and maybe Hat) equipment type, Spyro doesn't really have a type of equipment that would fit him. Would the developers be willing to make new equipment types just to "fit" for that character, or would this extra necessity be one of the reasons why they would choose certain characters over others?

 

[ZeldaMaster]

If we get three Nintendo newcomers... Isaac and K Rool are at the forefront. I can't decide who would be the third character though. Having a hard time deciding between Dixie, Impa, and Bandanna Dee. Would honestly probably have to go with Dixie though.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know he appeared at least 3 times. Twice in the bar scene and once during the credits, with him and Ralph destroying the car.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh...... That Street Fighter scene where Ryu was asking about Stage Hazards. I haven't watched the movie in a while.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Oh, didn't saw the quotes; for some reason, I got no notification. :T

And? Mario repopularized the video game scene during its crash. Pacman even popularized the Arcade Machine craze back in the day. Ryu only popularized the fighting genre.

Ryu popularized the fighting game genre, but did he ever re popularize gaming as a whole in the West? Those are two entirely different levels of popularizing and ones that are easily distinguishable.

Would Ryu be recognized by those who do not even game moreso than Mario and Pacman? The answer is an easy and simple no.

Is not really by those details that Mario or Pac-Man are known today;.. (well, at least, I understood that we were talking about a character being iconic or not; and this status is needed to hold up until today, right?).. Kids who see and know Mario or Pac-Man is not by those details; and both characters are not still in the industry by them too.. (of course that the industry thanks them a lot, but they wouldn't survive as any other if their games wasn't good enough or had low exposure);
You know that Ryu already met with IronMan, isn't it?.. like, the kids favorite everywhere;

Just 'cause Ryu didn't revolutionized the gaming industry doesn't mean that he doesn't have the same worldwide knowledge as Mario or Pac-Man; .. Is not necessarly by what they did in the past, but what they keep doing.. Look to Mega Man, he's just story... (and not even revolutionized anything. .... yet, he's in Smash Bros. funny. )

Really? What about the Locked on Disc Content? It is what sparked the hate for DLC in video games.

What about Yoshinori Ono, the director of Street Fighter leaving? That may have impacted some people (if Yoshinori Ono's leaving is true, not really sure if it is still a rumor or not).

Would you consider Street Fighter V focusing on digital sales be a hit in the franchise's health? Capcom still needed Sony to help them make SFV. Having your game become digital over physical is not that great correct?

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/as-capcom-plays-it-safe-sales-fall-and-profits-cli/1100-6425061/

You really think that all those stories affected the name Street Fighter at all? .. the games are still very polished and praised by the FGC everybody who tries; and there's a lot of hype on SFV being an exclusive..
and no, Ono isn't leaving, btw.

 

[Deleted member]

@ SMAASH! Puppy Glad you caught the reference. I personally find them humorous and I can imagine Ness being really cute when he says "FUZZY PICKLLLEESS!" You know you do as well.

Newcomers? 3-4. I already expected about 3 anyway, but we can potentially get more now. I'd argue that the veterans we have: Roy, Wolf, Lucas, and Mewtwo, basically will take veterans off of the cards all-together. MAYBE Snake coming back, as well. I'm still iffy on Snake, but with Ryu I'm a lot less iffy on him.


I think the ballot will have at LEAST 3 characters, maybe even 4. Or there's a non-ballot Nintendo newcomer, but I'd bet at this point they'll all be characters who are on the ballot.



I don't think Inklings will be DLC. I never did before, and this just furthers the notion. UNLESS they plan to add DLC for up to two years, in which case, yeah, they're basically guaranteed. (But I doubt we'd get DLC that far out.)

The thing about Inklings was that I imagined that if any newcomers would be shown at E3, it would be them to cross-promote Splatoon as it would be the best possible opportunity for them to do so. But now that Ryu looks likely, I expect he will be shown there instead. If that is the case, it shuts off all possible promotion opportunities that Inklings could have so they can't just get on "promotion" merit anymore. And the longer Splatoon is released, the less effective it is to promote it with a characters. Like other characters, Inklings are actually going to have to stand on their toes now and this is not the easiest thing to do for a brand new series.

I still think that they have a shot to be DLC, but I don't feel as strong about it as I did before. And the longer we go without them being announced, the further their chances slips away as DLC (unless they actually do break out).

Who the hell actually bought Bayonetta or Wonderful 101?

I bought both. Played two hours of Bayonetta and a few hours of Wonderful 101. I need to get back to those someday.

I'm expecting 3 Nintendo newcomers at an absolute minimum, and who knows how many at maximum.

I always said 8 DLC characters at the absolute minimum, and I still stand by that.

So with what we know of so far, that leaves me four more spots. Wolf will definitely be one of them, and I could easily see the other 3 being newcomers.

Before Ryu and Roy's confirmation, I would have called you crazy for expecting eight characters minimum. Now I see this as a very real possibility, especially when you take into account "Smash 6" and that Smash characters are easier to develop than traditional fighting characters.

Speaking of which, do people here realize that if we get nine DLC characters, that leaves us at sixty characters? Never in a million years would I have thought this was possible a year ago; let alone back in 2011...

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I know he appeared at least 3 times. Twice in the bar scene and once during the credits, with him and Ralph destroying the car.

In the beginning of the movie, when the DDR Girl says that the Arcade is closed, he stops fighting with Ken and asks him if he wants to got to Pepper's to drink; .. right after Ralph finishing his story

 

[Ivander]

In the beginning of the movie, when the DDR Girl says that the Arcade is closed, he stops fighting with Ken and asks him if he wants to got to Pepper's to drink; .. right after Ralph finishing his story

Yeah, I thought I was forgetting something. All I remembered clearly was him at the bar and during the credits.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Oh, didn't saw the quotes; for some reason, I got no notification. :T

Is not really by those details that Mario or Pac-Man are known today;.. (well, at least, I understood that we were talking about a character being iconic or not; and this status is needed to hold up until today, right?).. Kids who see and know Mario or Pac-Man is not by those details; and both characters are not still in the industry by them too.. (of course that the industry thanks them a lot, but they wouldn't survive as any other if their games wasn't good enough or had low exposure);
You know that Ryu already met with IronMan, isn't it?.. like, the kids favorite everywhere;

And? Ryu would still not be in the industry if Street Fighter was becoming horrible, but it is not; however, Street Fighter is not as great with its fanbase as it once was. Locked on DLC and Microtransactions and all.

Do you know who the kids know more than Ryu, Mario, and Pacman nowadays Cyber? Call of Duty characters. Because a good majority of them would find Iron Man too "childish" and "immature" to be taken seriously. Ironman's popularity is mainly consisted of those who grew up with him in the 30-60s; however, he is popular with kids, but kids are still playing "mature games" to be seen as adult like.

Ryu's crossovers is what made him mainly known, but that is the main factor in it. Without being in as much crossovers as he was, Ryu would not be as well known.

Even still, Ryu was with Ironman back in the first Marvel vs. Capcom and Mario and Pacman are still better known. Same thing applies today. The only difference is that Ironman is more well known, Ryu? Not so much by any close margin. Ironman has become more iconic to the public thanks to the Avengers, Ryu does not share that luxury since he does not have as much exposure.

Another factor for Mario and Pacman are the Pacman cartoons and Miiverse for Mario. Toys and accessibility to the younger audience. Ryu is scene more to be a mature character so he is not welcome among most of the younger demographic (mainly those in the 4-7 range).

Just 'cause Ryu didn't revolutionized the gaming industry doesn't mean that he doesn't have the same worldwide knowledge as Mario or Pac-Man; .. Is not necessarly by what they did in the past, but what they keep doing.. Look to Mega Man, he's just story... and not even revolutionized anything. (and yet, he's in Smash Bros. funny. )

Ryu does not have the same Iconic status as Pacman and Mario because he did not revolutionize the gaming industry. In regards to Megaman, on a separate response to someone else I mentioned that Megaman's iconic status is dwindling due to how Capcom is treating him so Ryu being in Smash Bros does not make him automatically iconic as everyone else. Saying that he is in Smash Bros based on Icon status is opening a can of worms Cyber.

Everyone can get in Smash Brothers if they pay the right amount and appeared on a Nintendo Console, Cyber. There are no real qualifications to get in anymore.

You really think that all those stories affected the name Street Fighter at all? .. the games are still very polished and praised by the FGC everybody who tries; and there's a lot of hype on SFV being an exclusive..
and no, Ono isn't leaving, btw.

Ono is not leaving, okay that was a rumor, thanks for clearing that up. I believe those stories did affect Street Fighter. Street Fighter is now a sole Hardcore fighting game, but it lost its casual fan base a long time ago. It lost a good number of its sales when it focused solely on the Hardcore fanbase. It is popular in the Competitive gaming scene, but not anywhere else really.

What about De'Capre being revealed instead of R.Mika or Karin as DLC? Are you telling me they did not turn off the Street Fighter fanbase?

Street Fighter must not be selling as well since Capcom is losing money and only made up a fraction of their loses with Street Fighter V, correct?

Edit: Forgot to mention. Doesn't SFV being a PS4 and PC exclusive only help in terms of console wars? I thought people hated Game Exclusivity once a game was multiplatform. Having Street Fighter V exlusive sounds like a point against those who like to play it.

 

[Twewy]

More than Snake, but less than Megaman and Sonic.

Do you know why SF still gets games but Mega Man doesn't? Because they sell better, people actually buy them. Mega Man sells better based on brand name because the fans love the series and buy it, Street Fighter made it's brand name famous and well-known, you can bet most copies of vanilla Street Fighter IV were sold based off of brand recognition and nostalgia. Street Fighter IV WAS my first Street Fighter, I wanted to buy it because I remember the stories dad would tell about him and his friend getting their butts handed to them by M. Bison and how much fun it was. It caught my interest because of the fame and reputation of SF2. Mega Man's well-known to gamers because they play games and they play these games with people who play other games, and they hear of this "Mega Man" and their curiosity peaks. What separates Mega Man from Street Fighter is that overall it never sold as good as SF. Back then, games could sell 200k and be considered best-sellers. Mega Man 2 sold 1.2 million in the NES's lifespan, it's the most popular title in the series, it's what inspires most of Mega Man's moveset in Smash 4. On the list of best-sellers on the SNES, Street Fighter 2 placed three times. People loved this game so much they'd go and buy it three times. People could not get enough of this game. It's the best selling 3rd party game on the damn thing, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure at one point it was bundled with it. Mega Man was liked by gamers and the series was bought by its fans, but it never had the same fame as Street Fighter. Why does Capcom put SF2 on every machine known to man? It's famous. It's famous as hell. Nearly everyone that shows interest in games has at least heard of it and that drives people to buy it. Mega Man has a strong and vocal fanbase that most game companies in the would kill for, but to even compare it to how famous or successful Street Fighter is would be silly.

With Snake it goes about barely. Ryu popularized the Fighting Genre in the Arcades, but Arcades are dead in the west unless you are Dave and Busters. In Japan they are going strong, but they are doing terrible everywhere else (that I know of).

No, what you don't understand is Street Fighter II popularized arcades in the 90's. Arcades were successful again because of this one game, everyone wanted to play it back then. People were drawn to arcades and pizza places by the droves so they could fight their friends head-to-head, when before they'd just have to compare high scores. Just because arcades are dead now doesn't mean SFII didn't revive them for a while, by your logic Pac-Man wasn't iconic in the 90's because it popularized arcades in that time period before they died off again.

Snake, you could argue, defined and popularized the Sneak and destroy Genre of video games, or the Stealth games.

It's no secret Metal Gear Solid was a massive success and redefined stealth. However, the stealth genre has always been a niche genre, and the most Metal Gear Solid did was showcase how much games are capable of cinematic story-telling. What Street Fighter 2 did was invent a new way of multiplayer. You literally could not get this kind of play with any other game, the most you could do was get drunk off your ass with a friend and fight over the last z in some radical 90's name. This competitive gameplay also spawned a big following dedicated to playing this game and many like it "Professionally'. We are having this god damned debate because of the kind of gameplay Street Fighter II made popular. Fighting games have a big community and a yearly tournament ran by the community and sponsored by the companies that make the games. Capcom has its own damn event. Fighting games are hell of a lot more popular than stealth games.

I would say Ryu is more iconic than Snake, but not by much.

Again, you're goddamned wrong. Snake is popular with gamers, Ryu is popular with anyone that even looked at an arcade in the 90's. Ryu's fame outweighs Snake's by a threshold. Ryu and Street Fighter as a whole were household names in the 90s.

Wanna know why Street Fighter made so many cameos in Wreck-It Ralph? Because it was a popular as hell arcade game and the movie is about arcade games. Same with Pac-Man. The two are really famous arcade games and it would be nonsense if neither of them were in as a cameo.

Also, let me remind you that Street Fighter had a movie, a game based off the movie, a cartoon based off the movie, all because Capcom wanted to cash in on Street Fighter's massive success. You can argue Mario and Pac-Man both have a cartoon, and that Mario had a movie, but you want to know why these three have these other slices of media in their series pie? Because they were so ****ing popular the companies knew people would watch them.

Who the hell actually bought Bayonetta or Wonderful 101?

Believe it or not, people buy other games on Nintendo systems besides Mario and Zelda. Bayonetta 2 sold 700k last time I checked and Wonderful 101 sold around 320k. And if you're calling W101 a third party, you're just giving me another reason to laugh. Platinum Games's games hardly ever sell good because they're niche as hell, but Bayonetta as a series has sold great for them and W101 can be considered one that sells over time due to word of mouth spreading.

Spoiler

Also, I'm too lazy to write more paragraphs based on nonsense, is @ Oracle_Summon arguing that Street Fighter is becoming worse due to terrible business decisions by its creator and that voids its inclusion in Smash? Off-topic but I agree Capcom's doing some stupid stuff, but lately they've mellowed down.

How many Nintendo newcomers are you expecting in light Roy and Ryu being leaked?

I'd say around one or two. I'm kind of hoping for K. Rool and Inkling, myself. A new series repped is always fun and a new villain would be rad.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Spoiler

I would be so happy if this turned out to be the final roster for Smash 4. (Note: Robin Female, Wii Fit Trainer Male, and Felix are alts in this list)

I think this would please most people. With the way things are going with Smash Ballot, most of these are in the top ten anyways (with Shovel Knight never having a game in Japan and Banjo being a super complicated situation), so it's pretty well rounded.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Who the hell actually bought Bayonetta or Wonderful 101?

Got W101 on Club Nintendo, haven't beaten it yet, but I've really enjoyed what I've played. Wouldn't mind seeing Wonder Red at all.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Do you know why SF still gets games but Mega Man doesn't? Because they sell better, people actually buy them. Mega Man sells better based on brand name because the fans love the series and buy it, Street Fighter made it's brand name famous and well-known, you can bet most copies of vanilla Street Fighter IV were sold based off of brand recognition and nostalgia. Street Fighter IV WAS my first Street Fighter, I wanted to buy it because I remember the stories dad would tell about him and his friend getting their butts handed to them by M. Bison and how much fun it was. It caught my interest because of the fame and reputation of SF2. Mega Man's well-known to gamers because they play games and they play these games with people who play other games, and they hear of this "Mega Man" and their curiosity peaks. What separates Mega Man from Street Fighter is that overall it never sold as good as SF. Back then, games could sell 200k and be considered best-sellers. Mega Man 2 sold 1.2 million in the NES's lifespan, it's the most popular title in the series, it's what inspires most of Mega Man's moveset in Smash 4. On the list of best-sellers on the SNES, Street Fighter 2 placed three times. People loved this game so much they'd go and buy it three times. People could not get enough of this game. It's the best selling 3rd party game on the damn thing, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure at one point it was bundled with it. Mega Man was liked by gamers and the series was bought by its fans, but it never had the same fame as Street Fighter. Why does Capcom put SF2 on every machine known to man? It's famous. It's famous as hell. Nearly everyone that shows interest in games has at least heard of it and that drives people to buy it. Mega Man has a strong and vocal fanbase that most game companies in the would kill for, but to even compare it to how famous or successful Street Fighter is would be silly.

Actually, in an earlier post I stated that Ryu may as well be more iconic than Megaman in a sense that Capcom is not really doing anything with him; however, Megaman put Capcom on the map. Giving them the resources needed to attempt Street Fighter again after the First game failed. Street Fighter was not popular until the Second one.

My question is, since Street Fighter is no longer a casual fighting game, does it still have the same sized fanbase as it did when it first came out?

No, what you don't understand is Street Fighter II popularized arcades in the 90's. Arcades were successful again because of this one game, everyone wanted to play it back then. People were drawn to arcades and pizza places by the droves so they could fight their friends head-to-head, when before they'd just have to compare high scores. Just because arcades are dead now doesn't mean SFII didn't revive them for a while, by your logic Pac-Man wasn't iconic in the 90's because it popularized arcades in that time period before they died off again.

You mean repopularized. Pacman popularized the arcade machines, but Street Fighter saved them during the 90s era.

You mean iconic in the 80's, but Pacman is still more recognized because he can be found everywhere even on iphone games reintroducing more people to him than ever before.

It's no secret Metal Gear Solid was a massive success and redefined stealth. However, the stealth genre has always been a niche genre, and the most Metal Gear Solid did was showcase how much games are capable of cinematic story-telling.

And how many games do you see that show cinematic story-telling? That has become an Industry standard, even Street Fighter does it.

What Street Fighter 2 did was invent a new way of multiplayer. You literally could not get this kind of play with any other game, the most you could do was get drunk off your *** with a friend and fight over the last z in some radical 90's name. This competitive gameplay also spawned a big following dedicated to playing this game and many like it "Professionally'. We are having this god damned debate because of the kind of gameplay Street Fighter II made popular. Fighting games have a big community and a yearly tournament ran by the community and sponsored by the companies that make the games. Capcom has its own damn event. Fighting games are hell of a lot more popular than stealth games.

Good point here no rebutals.

Again, you're goddamned wrong. Snake is popular with gamers, Ryu is popular with anyone that even looked at an arcade in the 90's. Ryu's fame outweighs Snake's by a threshold. Ryu and Street Fighter as a whole were household names in the 90s.

The other point I had with Arcade machines during Pacmans time was that Pacman moved on and increased his fanbase further due to having more exposure.

Wanna know why Street Fighter made so many cameos in Wreck-It Ralph? Because it was a popular as hell arcade game and the movie is about arcade games. Same with Pac-Man. The two are really famous arcade games and it would be nonsense if neither of them were in as a cameo.

Both were famous Arcade Games, but only one kicked off Arcade Games.
Edit: Is Ryu in the upcoming gaming movie Pixels? I know that Donkey Kong and Pacman are according to the trailers.

Also, let me remind you that Street Fighter had a movie, a game based off the movie, a cartoon based off the movie, all because Capcom wanted to cash in on Street Fighter's massive success. You can argue Mario and Pac-Man both have a cartoon, and that Mario had a movie, but you want to know why these three have these other slices of media in their series pie? Because they were so ****ing popular the companies knew people would watch them.

The quality of those movies and shows were terrible. Even Bubsy had a TV Show. Any mascot/series/franchise that people tried to popularize themselves with Toy deals, movies and shows. Megaman also had a TV Show and Merchandise.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

And? Ryu would still not be in the industry if Street Fighter was becoming horrible, but it is not; however, Street Fighter is not as great with its fanbase as it once was. Locked on DLC and Microtransactions and all.

Do you know who the kids know more than Ryu, Mario, and Pacman nowadays Cyber? Call of Duty characters. Because a good majority of them would find Iron Man too "childish" and "immature" to be taken seriously. Ironman's popularity is mainly consisted of those who grew up with him in the 30-60s; however, he is popular with kids, but kids are still playing "mature games" to be seen as adult like.

Ryu's crossovers is what made him mainly known, but that is the main factor in it. Without being in as much crossovers as he was, Ryu would not be as well known.

Even still, Ryu was with Ironman back in the first Marvel vs. Capcom and Mario and Pacman are still better known. Same thing applies today. The only difference is that Ironman is more well known, Ryu? Not so much by any close margin. Ironman has become more iconic to the public thanks to the Avengers, Ryu does not share that luxury since he does not have as much exposure.

Another factor for Mario and Pacman are the Pacman cartoons and Miiverse for Mario. Toys and accessibility to the younger audience. Ryu is scene more to be a mature character so he is not welcome among most of the younger demographic (mainly those in the 4-7 range).

Oookay,.. it's kind of obvious that any Street Fighter game or even any game that Ryu had already participated were all rated T; (even though the children are, indeed, playing games clearly not made for them) ... but I was talking about exposure, and principally in the pop culture.. Street Fighter never had any kind of weakening. There's nothing that Pac-Man gets in amount of marketing that Street Fighter doesn't (not exactly in which products in question, and for who they're aiming)...

And while you put all the merits of Mario and Pac-Man in a godlike rank, you keep neglecting Ryu's history as if it were irrelevant. And it's not .. many characters wanted to have the kind of recognition that Ryu has; not only within the Fighting games theme, but in outside that too.

Ryu does not have the same Iconic status as Pacman and Mario because he did not revolutionize the gaming industry. In regards to Megaman, on a separate response to someone else I mentioned that Megaman's iconic status is dwindling due to how Capcom is treating him so Ryu being in Smash Bros does not make him automatically iconic as everyone else. Saying that he is in Smash Bros based on Icon status is opening a can of worms Cyber.

Everyone can get in Smash Brothers if they pay the right amount and appeared on a Nintendo Console, Cyber. There are no real qualifications to get in anymore.

There's a qualification; .. if not, we could get Shrek from the Ballot. .. (he had games on Nintendo before, btw =P); And, yeah, I'll keep saying that he's that iconic.. much more than.. you know, even more than a half Smash4 cast;

I believe those stories did affect Street Fighter. Street Fighter is now a sole Hardcore fighting game, but it lost its casual fan base a long time ago. It lost a good number of its sales when it focused solely on the Hardcore fanbase. It is popular in the Competitive gaming scene, but not anywhere else really.

What about De'Capre being revealed instead of R.Mika or Karin as DLC? Are you telling me they did not turn off the Street Fighter fanbase?

Street Fighter must not be selling as well since Capcom is losing money and only made up a fraction of their loses with Street Fighter V, correct?

Edit: Forgot to mention. Doesn't SFV being a PS4 and PC exclusive only help in terms of console wars? I thought people hated Game Exclusivity once a game was multiplatform. Having Street Fighter V exlusive sounds like a point against those who like to play it.

Not affected at all... Street Fighter is still a huge name; is like saying that Bomberman isn't a big name anymore (even if already in the limbo) 'cause he had Act Zero in his franchise...

From the casual crowd you mention, those people never got really into the details (people who says that all the SFII versions are the same, you know)... they wouldn't even bother to know how each DLC was scheduled or planned to be in certain game, etc, etc... They're people really interested only in playing the Arcade mode to see the ending from each character, and maybe try once or twice the ONlime mode. It happens that Capcom had actually nobody casual to disappoint with all this situation, and people who got angry, still bought USFIV and played with Decrape anyway... 'cause they're competivie players, and doesn't matter who the character is, as long plays balanced /kappa.

Capcom was/is in financial problems, yes.. but was a amount of mistakes aside Street Fighter.. --at the best, aside Monster Hunter (which has no appeal as a name in the industry, unti now, at least), they have no other franchise still satisfying by his core of gameplay than Street Fighter;

Oh, and about SFV thing;,.. Sony is funding the game (both PS4 and PC versions!), but I don't think that the game wouldn't exist without them (isn't exactly the same case of Bayonetta); they just helped out to have the game early and an exclusive for their console. (and, there you go, Street Fighter is a big name to be a marketing title for a console);... but I believe that, after sometime, a Super Street Fighter V will be released and will be on other platforms as well. :\/

EDIT: Oh, and I should mention that.. you know, Street Fighter is a franchise that just happens to have some casual fans.. but it's not really aimed to them, anyway.. and this is the rule since SFII, receiving enchanted versions one after another to keep feeding the competitive and hardcore players. .. Ultra Street Fighter IV sounded like an absurd by many, but was a high demanded game to exist by the competitive players.

Even though, people are still very connected to the series and its characters; which happens to be the appeal of Ryu being in Smash.

 

[Ura]

I think this would please most people. With the way things are going with Smash Ballot, most of these are in the top ten anyways (with Shovel Knight never having a game in Japan and Banjo being a super complicated situation), so it's pretty well rounded.

Yeah, I think characters like Shovel Knight and Shantee lack popularity that some other characters have and Banjo & Crash are both owned/associated with rival companies. Besides, the nine characters I mentioned would go well with almost everyone.

Also, I forgot to add that Ken would be an alt for Ryu in that list.

 

[Twewy]

The quality of those movies and shows were terrible. Even Bubsy had a TV Show. Any mascot/series/franchise that people tried to popularize themselves with Toy deals, movies and shows. Megaman also had a TV Show and Merchandise.

Do you think the companies cared about the quality? No, what they cared about is the quantity of money they were making, and Street Fighter in the 90's was no laughing matter.

Yes, Mega Man had all that, but did it also accompany a movie that made millions of dollars alongside the gravy train that was merchandizing? And Bubsy didn't have a TV show, it had a pilot. A pilot that failed and doomed any chance of merchandizing that Bubsy 3D didn't kill.

My question is, since Street Fighter is no longer a casual fighting game, does it still have the same sized fanbase as it did when it first came out?

Let me answer that with a question: Does Mega Man still have the same sized fanbase as it did when it came out? Does anything popular still have the same sized fanbase as when it originally came out? Is Angry Birds still as popular as it was in 2012/2013? Things decline in popularity over time, but they will always keep their impact in history.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'd like to mention that this game is the ultimate fanservice to gamers everywhere. Not every character needs to meet the needs of every single simpleton out there. Gamers probably follow this more than casuals.

Don't know who Ryu is? Now you do. Ryu in Smash will trend on Twitter the second it gets confirmed. People will eat this up. This is why I don't really see the point in the, "he isn't iconic enough". There's no reason to freak out about everybody getting 2 characters all of sudden. We don't even know what kind of deal is in place.

I get the salt about Ryu , but really I also don't. 3rd party characters are meant to be iconic gaming characters. Ryu fits that. Snake fits that. Every 3rd party character in Smash has been an extremely iconic gaming character. However, nobody will reach the level of the 3 we currently have. Comparing the ones we don't have to what we DO have is futile.

Also, if anybody missed my theory on DLC, you can check it out here: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-character-discussion-thread.347464/page-1791#post-19003908

 

[Twewy]

I get the salt about Ryu , but really I also don't. 3rd party characters are meant to be iconic gaming characters. Ryu fits that. Snake fits that. Every character in Smash has been an extremely iconic gaming character.

Spoiler

I agree though, they are meant to be iconic. I'm not just agreeing with him so I can have closure and go to sleep I have been debating this for two hours oh my god I am never doing this stuff again.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Oookay,.. it's kind of obvious that any Street Fighter game or even any game that Ryu had already participated were all rated T; (even though the children are, indeed, playing games clearly not made for them) ... but I was talking about exposure, and principally in the pop culture.. Street Fighter never had any kind of weakening. There's nothing that Pac-Man gets in amount of marketing that Street Fighter doesn't (not exactly in which products in question, and for who they're aiming)...

And while you put all the merits of Mario and Pac-Man in a godlike rank, you keep neglecting Ryu's history as if it were irrelevant. And it's not .. many characters wanted to have the kind of recognition that Ryu has; not only within the Fighting games theme, but in outside that too.

Street Fighter was not popular until the second one, that is where the game kicked off. (forgot to mention that many posts earlier)

Not saying that Ryu isn't as iconic as Mario and Pac-Man does not mean his history is irrelevant. He just isn't as iconic as Mario and Pac-Man, they are separate levels.

There's a qualification; .. if not, we could get Shrek from the Ballot. .. (he had games on Nintendo before, btw =P); And, yeah, I'll keep saying that he's that iconic.. much more than.. you know, even more than a half Smash4 cast;

Of course I know that dude. XD Shrek is so obvious that you should not have to point him out (his mentioning is played for laughs anyways as old as they get).

But was your point that him being in Smash 4 means he is at the same level of Mario and Pac-Man? If that is true then Ryu is no more iconic than Mr. Game and Watch or Duck Hunt Dog.

I believe those stories did affect Street Fighter. Street Fighter is now a sole Hardcore fighting game, but it lost its casual fan base a long time ago. It lost a good number of its sales when it focused solely on the Hardcore fanbase. It is popular in the Competitive gaming scene, but not anywhere else really.

What about De'Capre being revealed instead of R.Mika or Karin as DLC? Are you telling me they did not turn off the Street Fighter fanbase?

Street Fighter must not be selling as well since Capcom is losing money and only made up a fraction of their loses with Street Fighter V, correct?

Edit: Forgot to mention. Doesn't SFV being a PS4 and PC exclusive only help in terms of console wars? I thought people hated Game Exclusivity once a game was multiplatform. Having Street Fighter V exlusive sounds like a point against those who like to play it.

Not affected at all... Street Fighter is still a huge name; is like saying that Bomberman isn't a big name anymore (even if already in the limbo) 'cause he had Act Zero in his franchise...

Bomberman is not a good example since he has not had a solid title in years. You would need a franchise in the same state as Street Fighter to make a statement. Bomberman is not that big of a name as Street Fighter, so that comparison does not work (this point argues in favor).

From the casual crowd you mention, those people never got really into the details (people who says that all the SFII versions are the same, you know)... they wouldn't even bother to know how each DLC was scheduled or planned to be in certain game, etc, etc... They're people really interested only in playing the Arcade mode to see the ending from each character, and maybe try once or twice the ONlime mode. It happens that Capcom had actually nobody casual to disappoint with all this situation, and people who got angry, still bought USFIV and played with Decrape anyway... 'cause they're competivie players, and doesn't matter who the character is, as long plays balanced /kappa.

That is the point though. Street Fighter 2 has lost its casual fan base, preventing it from becoming bigger than it should be. The competitive scene is hard to get into and that turns many potential players off, resulting in less potential fans. Meaning that Street Fighter has to attend to its Hardcore Fanbase to continue staying relevant.

Capcom was/is in financial problems, yes.. but was a amount of mistakes aside Street Fighter.. --at the best, aside Monster Hunter (which has no appeal as a name in the industry, unti now, at least), they have no other franchise still satisfying by his core of gameplay than Street Fighter;

Still, having less money means they could not make Street Fighter a better game, impacting its sales. It is no fault of Street Fighter, but it still impacted Street Fighter sales.

Oh, and about SFV thing;,.. Sony is funding the game (both PS4 and PC versions!), but I don't think that the game wouldn't exist without them (isn't exactly the same case of Bayonetta); they just helped out to have the game early and an exclusive for their console. (and, there you go, Street Fighter is a big name to be a marketing title for a console);... but I believe that, after sometime, a Super Street Fighter V will be released and will be on other platforms as well. :\/

Of course Street Fighter V will be on other consoles. This is Capcom we are talking about. Sleeping around is their middle name. It is not a good sign that Capcom needed extra money to help produce Street Fighter V. It is good that Street Fighter V got another game, but that does not bode well for the Franchise if the parent company can't afford to make more iterations.

Do you think the companies cared about the quality? No, what they cared about is the quantity of money they were making, and Street Fighter in the 90's was no laughing matter.

It actually was. It was not the worst show, but it was no master piece by any means.

Yes, Mega Man had all that, but did it also accompany a movie that made millions of dollars alongside the gravy train that was merchandizing? And Bubsy didn't have a TV show, it had a pilot. A pilot that failed and doomed any chance of merchandizing that Bubsy 3D didn't kill.

Good thing too about the Bubsy show. And good points about the Street Fighter franchise, those are good.

The Megaman franchise did make Capcom popular and gave them enough resources to make Street Fighter 2 and turning it into the franchise we know today.

Let me answer that with a question: Does Mega Man still have the same sized fanbase as it did when it came out? Does anything popular still have the same sized fanbase as when it originally came out? Is Angry Birds still as popular as it was in 2012/2013? Things decline in popularity over time, but they will always keep their impact in history.

Then you must look at the impact they had in history. Impacts that Mario and Pac-Man left were greater than Street Fighter. So in terms of impacts in history, Mario and Pac-Man individually outrank Street Fighter.

As a side note not related to the discussion/argument, no bad feelings on this end since we are just discussing these matters correct?

 

[Twewy]

It actually was. It was not the worst show, but it was no master piece by any means.

Reading comprehension, kid. I meant Street Fighter as a franchise. And oh my god you brought up Mario and Pac-Man AGAIN.

I don't think you can understand what I'm saying: I am not saying Street Fighter had a bigger impact than Mario or Pac-Man. Get it through your head. It had a big impact but it was not that big.



Also, no hard feelings. I can go to sleep now, right?